A point of constitutional philosophy: implicit protections.

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Re: A point of constitutional philosophy: implicit protectio

Postby iambiguous » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:46 pm

Meno_ wrote:Unfortunately it does take intellectual 'contraptions' to decipher the Constitution, as the founders were particularly influenced by stratospheric achievements to overcome the binds to the otherwise overwhelingly formidable established rules of conduct.


Okay, someone reads this and ponders the extent to which, if true, it actually does impact on how he thinks about the implicit protections the U.S. Constitution affords him in regard to his rights as a citizen to bear arms. Lots and lots and lots of them in fact. Including hand grenades and artillery pieces. Even chemical and biological devices.

Which constitutional philosophy reflects the most rational -- virtuous? -- set of assumptions here?
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Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: A point of constitutional philosophy: implicit protectio

Postby Meno_ » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:05 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Meno_ wrote:Unfortunately it does take intellectual 'contraptions' to decipher the Constitution, as the founders were particularly influenced by stratospheric achievements to overcome the binds to the otherwise overwhelingly formidable established rules of conduct.


Okay, someone reads this and ponders the extent to which, if true, it actually does impact on how he thinks about the implicit protections the U.S. Constitution affords him in regard to his rights as a citizen to bear arms. Lots and lots and lots of them in fact. Including hand grenades and artillery pieces. Even chemical and biological devices.

Which constitutional philosophy reflects the most rational -- virtuous? -- set of assumptions here?



This is a very complex question which is tantamount to the relation between what that man thinks of Constitutional protections , as reflected within communities of law enforcement( not excluding the myriad of structural agents: ranging from the cop, through the soldier , the intelligence, all the way up and including the trier of facts, the plaintiffs, defenders, lawyers and judges.

As it stands, the rule is of reasonable engagement, when the life, liberty and the justice of a member of that group is threatened.

Between the contraptions, that brought about a transcendent reason by which the question of casual relations are established between that thought and the impact it has upon reasonable men, can only be arrived at by the reflection upon what is a reasonable man can gather.

Most of the time there is a dissolve or a lack of continuity between the 'contraptions' and that reflection, simply because transcending the contraptions is not within that part of the continuum of reasonableness .

That is why, for instance, that what bearer of a kind of weapon is appropriate given certain situations is determinative only on a qualitative assessment.

For instance, an average reasonable man may not see , that to overcome a knife attack, he should not use guns or even grenades defensively.

Or, could not understand the idea, that to defend against burglary he may not be warranted to kill the burger, if he appears unarmed, and liability may occur for such a situation.

There is some measure of relative disconnect between the contraption( which really is a transcendental generalization, and the specific impacted upon understanding of that .

This is why not interpretation has to bring home connections between the intent, and the letter of the law.
Intent is more related to frames of mind, while the letter spells out the complex states which can determine it's reasonabless.

More and more framers of the Constitution are questioned as to their intent, to determine applicability to certain situations.

How could freedom be said to have been extolled by Jefferson, when he was a slave holder?
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Re: A point of constitutional philosophy: implicit protectio

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:17 pm

I would contend that it is a simple matter.

The first amendment is a declaration of war against what had previously been the ruling order. It says: citizens have rights to their values, and to the free expression of them, and to not have values imposed on them.

How is this right to be guaranteed?
The founding fathers realized there is only one way to guarantee ones freedom to ones values from all hypothetical forces that may try to take this liberty; power of force.

So, naturally from the first amendment, the second amendment follows.

By this logic, citizens have to be allowed equally powerful weaponry as the state.
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Re: A point of constitutional philosophy: implicit protectio

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:44 pm



Great day for America, great day for mankind.

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The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: A point of constitutional philosophy: implicit protectio

Postby MagsJ » Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:34 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz9G9aQJkec

Re: A point of constitutional philosophy: implicit protectio
Post by Fixed Cross » Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:31

I deleted the video where I was talking and replaced it with this.. which has les than nothing to do with this context.

..but you edited out his cute laugh, his laugh like bae bae.. his childlike giggle.

I’m no empath, and I eschew the empathetic, but this.. this I feel greatly over, and the video.. everything.
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Re: A point of constitutional philosophy: implicit protectio

Postby MagsJ » Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:49 pm

In regard to the op..

The Future of Constitutional Reform

Better to refrain from undertaking a programme of comprehensive constitutional reform, but instead consider making limited changes to address weaknesses in constitutional arrangements that have been exposed by current political processes, that show that they are obviously not working anymore.
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Re: A point of constitutional philosophy: implicit protectio

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:49 pm

..but you edited out his cute laugh, his laugh like bae bae.. his childlike giggle.

Nice. Well I put it in, ... no?
I did cut it off but sometimes you have to do that for full effect.

MagsJ wrote:I’m no empath, and I eschew the empathetic, but this.. this I feel greatly over, and the video.. everything.

We were shooting a rather lugubrious film and shit kept going wrong. He was playing some kind of stern evil wizard but kept laughing. We had that a lot. Was good.
That laugh, that was true liberty.

Losing that reference point in life was bleak. Still is. Only Pezer comes close to being as genuinely appreciative of the funny stuff.
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Re: A point of constitutional philosophy: implicit protectio

Postby MagsJ » Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:18 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
..but you edited out his cute laugh, his laugh like bae bae.. his childlike giggle.
Nice. Well I put it in, ... no?
I did cut it off but sometimes you have to do that for full effect.

I’m glad I got to hear it, so thanks. :)

MagsJ wrote:I’m no empath, and I eschew the empathetic, but this.. this I feel greatly over, and the video.. everything.
We were shooting a rather lugubrious film and shit kept going wrong. He was playing some kind of stern evil wizard but kept laughing. We had that a lot. Was good.
That laugh, that was true liberty.

Losing that reference point in life was bleak. Still is. Only Pezer comes close to being as genuinely appreciative of the funny stuff.

Haha yeah, being on set is a pleasure to be privy to and experience.. the amount of bonding that goes on behind the camera, when the boredom of endless resets and actions sets in, is a welcome reprieve from it.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Wait, What! - MagsJ


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