Class Struggle

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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:13 pm

If you put half the effort into political thinking that you put into Nietzsche' dissection of the genealogy of logic,

You would actually be a decent political thinker.

Instead of this...

Ununderstanding copypaste of a pamphlet.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:17 pm

See you made the mistake of proving that you actually are capable of philosophy.

If I were you, I would walk down to the nearest socialist headquarters or college and demand to have my balls back.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby promethean75 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:17 pm

well i'm only a derivative thinker because the stars say so. capricorns don't usually start projects, but they finish the fuck out of em. so that's what i gotta do. i'm am marx's ambassador at ILP. it is my fate.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby promethean75 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:19 pm

See you made the mistake of proving that you actually are capable of philosophy.


bro. i stopped doing philosophy before you made your first 'clan of hooded philosophers' video walking around in circles in your room. rememba that one? i do. it was pedro's big debut.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:21 pm

Nia ha ha

Yes I remember.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:23 pm

You were less cynical back then. But the path was clear with the mindless regurgitation of anthropologist political thought.

You could barely breathe.

You walk into shitty rooms of philosophy amd then blame philosophy. Blame ypur chooce of shit to take seriously!
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby promethean75 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:24 pm

when i saw that video i said to myself 'this one's got the eye of the liger', and i knew good things were to come.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:25 pm

The genealogy of democracy you laid out then was horrible. Your tiredness of it was palpable, and otself determined in part the low quality of the analysis.

But ot did, nonetheless, betray your ability.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby promethean75 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:30 pm

my videos were crap, dude. the babbling meanderings of a drunk nomadic van dweller. but look, that bit about democracy is still right. when you distribute executive power more evenly among peoples and groups, the decision making process becomes much more efficient. the evolution of democracies were forced; individuals could no longer solve problems single-handedly because they became too complex. democracy had arrived before it was even conceptually invented by the geeks. just that nobody understood that yet... and even tried to hold it back because it distributed power out of the hands of autocratic entities of state.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:41 pm

This is my problem with you all:

"When you..."

Who is this fucking "you?"
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:44 pm

Executive power over what? Power to execute what?
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:44 pm

There's too many holes man!

How about some discipline?
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:46 pm

"When you are taking some shit, specially a lot of shit, for granted, look around for someone else's agenda."

Marx
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:48 pm

I think I'm gonna lose my job soon.

I'm losing my passion for sales...
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:59 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:What if your coworker is a white man like yourself, and your half-brother is the son of a black man?

I didn't say race. I said ethnicity.

And miscegenation is an attack and destruction upon your own family.

Homogeneity strengthens families (and society); Heterogeneity (Miscegenation) weakens and destroys families.


Look to European countries if you want examples, evidence, and proof. Would "Spain" still be Spanish, if Frenchmen came into the country, married all the women, and started speaking French? No, it wouldn't. Spain would cease to exist.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:06 am

Gloominary wrote:Bill Gates may be superior to the vast majority of workers, but is he really millions of times superior?
Is he God?
No, but he's millions of times wealthier, so wealth is not necessarily an accurate representation of value.

I'm not claiming all individuals are equal, I'm not saying all classes are equal.
It's impossible for anyone or anything to be equal.
The working class are more beneficially productive than the underclass, the lower middle class, when taken as a whole, are probably more beneficially productive than the working class, the middle class more than the lower middle and so on, but once you become upper class, the richest 1%, or the overclass, the richest 1 10th of 1%, arguably things tend to get screwy, and wealth is no longer a reliable measure of a person's value.

I don't know who you are arguing against, but I don't think people believe that wealth is a measure of personal value inasmuch as other factors, as I've repeated, such as familial, tribal, and ethnic ties. Hence the single-mother working two full-time jobs, does so, because of and for her child, not the other way around. People aren't 'loyal' to work, compared to family, except in some cases where people have no family, which is also a rather common occurrence (in the US). Most of the middle-to-low 'class', is in this lowly position, because they have broken families and no familial loyalty.

The top 1% of the top 1% is a non-issue, a moot point. Usually this piece of the pie represents Monopolization, as you use in your example. Monopolies have been attacked by the US government before, and will be again, when such corporations gain too much power and political leverage. There is already a hidden-war going on over manipulation of Google, Facebook, Twitter, and other social media, by their political leverage and bias. One political party will prevent the other from using this leverage to benefit over the competition.

Furthermore, in a Capitalist society, you are free to invest $100,000,000 into stocks and markets of your choosing. If you become a billionaire doing this, which is a risk, then Welcome to the top 1% of the top 1%. You earned it. It wasn't free. Monopolies are gained through ruthless competition.


Is the US imbalanced? Compared to what? The Soviet Union? It seems that the US is just fine, economically. Personally, I would attack political corruption before corporate corruption. Corporations actually have specific functions. And they actually do work.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Gloominary » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:35 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Gloominary wrote:increase them on big businessmen, especially ones who've benefitted from fractional reserve banking, illegal immigration, offshoring, unsocial corporatism and vulture capitalism.

Well, that's very specific then, isn't it? While I can agree that some forms of limits and taxation could occur in those areas; they are largely immune based on their political payoffs and bribes. Thus neither democrats nor republicans will actually impose taxes on them. Because they pay too much in political bribes. Thus you would need to attack State-ism and Corruption, before any realistic imposition could occur on reserve banking, off-shore loopholes, stock trading, etc.

In my opinion, federal money spent on "education", welfare, public goods, etc. mostly go to waste. Example? Evidence? Proof? Look at all the brain-washing and indoctrination that gets pumped through the "public education system" nowadays. Teaching children that "gender is fluid", homosexuality is "okay", miscegenation is encouraged, etc. Because of all this filth, it should be defunded completely, as soon as possible. It's broken. It's just another extension of State corruption, the end-result of Stateism pushed way too far, with too large a central government. However, realistically, history has momentum, and it will only Stateism and Corruption will only continue forward relentlessly until Western society breaks down. Trump is the symptom of this, of the Public pushing back, against State corruption and bloat. Unfortunately, it's not enough, not even close. Perhaps the only sufficient societal reset would be all-out civil war, to reestablish blood-ties, ethnic and racial solidarity, and 'resetting' public institutions. Until such a thing occurs, very unlikely as it is, more corruption, perversion, taint, and rot will spread.

"The rich", meaning the specific groups you mention, will remain immune. They control the politicians (via lobbyists). And so, laws cannot touch them.

"Deep State".

As the chasm between rich and poor deepens, civil unrest, like the yellow vests movement that started in France, will grow, more people will donate to, form, join and vote for 3rd parties, and even if they never get in, it'll put pressure on libcons and republicrats to change.
At least in rhetoric, the left and right are turning away from (crony) capitalism to socialism, the left to international, matriarchal, progressive class warfare socialism and the right to national, patriarchal, conservative class collaboration socialism.
Donald Trump's protectionism and rhetoric about illegals for example are forms of national, class collaboration socialism.
Last edited by Gloominary on Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:54 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:What if your coworker is a white man like yourself, and your half-brother is the son of a black man?

I didn't say race. I said ethnicity.

And miscegenation is an attack and destruction upon your own family.

Homogeneity strengthens families (and society); Heterogeneity (Miscegenation) weakens and destroys families.


Look to European countries if you want examples, evidence, and proof. Would "Spain" still be Spanish, if Frenchmen came into the country, married all the women, and started speaking French? No, it wouldn't. Spain would cease to exist.


You're missing the point. Spain wouldn't be Spain if it hadn't fucked a bunch of Arab and Berber people.

Europe would be nothing if it hadn't managed to fuck as many Roman people as it did.

"And miscegenation is an attack and destruction upon your own family."

Are you familiar with genetics?
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:56 am

If you're just looking for an excuse to fuck white girls, stop it. You don't need one.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:58 am

Shit. 'Miscegination' is itself probably what has made the Jews the greatest people on Earth.

Wherever you go, whatever you do, a Jew does it better.

Race isn't real. Genetics doesn't work that way. Discrimination is real, and quite necessary. But attaching it to race severely limits its scope, power, effectiveness, and point.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:00 am

Having said all of that, i will massively backtrack and admit, some stability is good.

But check it. Venezuela was a happy place. And the genetic variety was outstanding. But even the variety had been sort of stable for hundreds of years. We were, in a sense, a homogenity. Then a massive influx of Europeans absolutely wrecked all.

Genetics isn't only DNA.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:05 am

It has to do with a shared struggle, and the histories that develop from those shared struggles.

Black people and white people in America are much more of a race than white people in America and white people in Germany.

By a country mile.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:29 am

Unlike most people on this site, you're a self-avowed racist. Unlike most people on this site, you're a likeable guy.

Racism itself says nothing about the quality of a person. But why do you have to cover it up in pseudo-science? Why do you need to justify it? That's what bothers me.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Gloominary » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:33 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Gloominary wrote:We're not talking about increasing taxes on doctors, engineers and miners, or at least I'm not, they're upper middle to lower middle class, I'm talking about increasing taxes on the upperclass, the richest 1%, and redistributing it in the form of affordable housing, free education, universal healthcare and supplementary income for working and middle class citizens, not for alcoholics, (prescription) drug addicts, the idle poor and illegal migrants.
I am not sure this even needs to be done. I would want their bullshit gaming the system banking and finance wealth production for no labor or value production bs cut off. Then we could see. People assume this is just a given in capitalism, but its not. And much of it was added after the formation of the US, for example.

I don't think it's enough to simply get rid of fractional reserve banking, altho ideally we should start with that, the central bankers and the 1 10th of 1% have been looting us for far too long, over a century, they owe us trillions in reparations.

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Perhaps don't increase taxes on wages at all, increase them on big businessmen, especially ones who've benefitted from fractional reserve banking, illegal immigration, offshoring, unsocial corporatism and vulture capitalism.
Another area is yes, taking the idea that corporate charters are a priviledge back into action. The founders of the US were not just concerned about government tyranny. They had see what the giant pseudocorporations like the East India company could do and did do. Corporate charters included the idea that the company follow the law, for example. Well, that idea is gone and the conservatives who refer to the founders never seem to complain about this.

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Don't forget about the central bankers, corporatists and military industrial complexes of the world.
It's like a taboo to even question these things for certain parts of the right. They think that capitalism must have central banks. Their are illiterate when it comes to money creation out of nothing. They choose not to notice how we have an oligarchy that decides when we go to war, for example, and is essentially anti-democratic, abroad and domestically. If you criticize these facets of elite's warped version of capitalism, then you supposedly are communist and want the USSR to come back now in the WEstern hemisphere.

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Gloominary wrote:And it depends on how you define property.
If you define all property, or some forms of property collectively, then it's not theft.
There's always been and probably always will be some public property.
Fucking A right. The commons is not a lefty thing. It was presumed by the founders. Of course one can try to figure out where the line is drawn, but conservatives, if they want to conserve traditions and uphold founder ideas and intentions would not just be pro all privitization.

And as if corporations are not, in many case, regions of fascism. These conservatives don't seem to want to notice that there is a new feudalism, a new royalty. Yes, I don't want anything like communism. But I don't see how oligharchic feudalism with a new royalty is somehow meeting conservative values. It's not. It has nothing to do with freedom, except the ever increasing freedom of the elites and the expense of the rest of the population.

They have no problem siphoning the commons when they want oil in some region or military intervention for their own purposes. And the surveillance capitalists got their whole realm via work done by government tech and development. Of course private companies created a lot there also, but they did it in a partnership with the public domain and using it. And of course they have no conservative values at all. The right to privacy is of no interest to them at all. And for some reason conservatives seem to be under the illusion that people are choosing to give up their right. Yes, this happens also, but there is no way to avoid, even by staying off line and paying in cash, the panopticon. This will only get worse with the coming and already here internet of things. Only a small part of the radical fringe of the right (God bless them) is concerned about this.

There is a set of triggers. You are critical of some facet of what gets called capitalism
bam, you want a Gulag.

People seem to have no idea what capitalism is and assume all this chicanery that has nothing to do with capitalism must be in capitalism. And under these illusions they keep opening the gates of the city to the incoming would be kings and queens.

All great points.

When corruption has been mitigated, capitalism can do quite a bit of good.
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Re: Class Struggle

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:43 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Unlike most people on this site, you're a self-avowed racist. Unlike most people on this site, you're a likeable guy.

Racism itself says nothing about the quality of a person. But why do you have to cover it up in pseudo-science? Why do you need to justify it? That's what bothers me.

New World Anti-Racism is double-speak.

Convenient when it suits you, but subjective and highly illogical. You can't have it both ways. Family literally means familiar. And if you, and others, want to "mix it up", then that will be the attitude of the results as well, mixed-up. How can a family stay 'family' when it becomes unfamiliar?

In the US, racial-ethnic "class" has been established between "WASP" and "non-white" or colored. Overclass, versus Underclass. Is it so simply why white does not intermix with black and vice-versa, as-if there was nothing more to it than "Racism"? As-if people don't have legitimate attractions or repulsion?

Your arguments are commonplace. It doesn't disprove my point.


European ethnic groups, countries, are so, for centuries upon centuries of warfare, in-marriage, and loyalty to one's own kind. To pretend otherwise, is not persuasive. Jews, as your primary example? Do you want to be Jewish? I don't. There are advantages and disadvantages to everything. Jews maybe 'rich', typically, but it comes with a price. As are the advantages and disadvantages of every other kind of people, clan, or tribe.
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