The REAL ID.

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The REAL ID.

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:22 am

So in October 2020, the Real ID will be required here in the US to enter government facilities that require ID so to fly on a domestic flight it or a passport will be required. I've heard that this ID is part of the globalist agenda with international implications to make this worldwide via facial recognition everywhere. Supposedly, the idea of this ID was created after 9/11 to make flights more secure, but by 2030 the entire world will be required to have a Real ID. For now the passport can act as the document to enter a plane, but once the world is onboard with this, passports may be retired. Instead of showing a stamped passport, your ID will be scanned and the stamp revealed via tech such as a phone.

Right now international security teams have to work together to accumulate info on someone's identity, but once the Real ID is phased in, all governments will have open access to any person's identity and whereabouts. I find that disconcerting and creepy. Facial recognition is already playing out at larger airports.
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Re: The REAL ID.

Postby Carleas » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:01 pm

First things first:
WendyDarling wrote:by 2030 the entire world will be required to have a Real ID

This is a fairly precise prediction, and one with which I disagree. Care to wager?

WendyDarling wrote:[O]nce the Real ID is phased in, all governments will have open access to any person's identity and whereabouts. I find that disconcerting and creepy.

Setting aside the timing, it's not implausible that eventually we'll have a global unique identifier for all people, or at least all people that the law recognizes as 'legitimate' (in some sense). I doubt it will ultimately be a piece of plastic; more likely will be the database behind those piece of plastic, which will authoritatively tie biometric identifiers to an individual. More than that, a more robust form of identity will rely on pervasive tracking, so that the you who was at the store an hour ago and the you who is in front of me now can be connected via your intervening movements.

And it's understandable that you find this "disconcerting and creepy", but I feel like you're implying that that equates to being bad or harmful, and I don't see how. It seems like that intuition derives from earlier forms of society and more mundane social interactions: if someone were actually following you around surreptitiously taking note of everything you do, that would cause for alarm. But those intuitions don't scale to universal and pervasive monitoring, and they don't take into account the way that technology can be used for passive surveillance that doesn't have the same implications as active, targeted surveillance.

I'm also reminded of the common folkloric idea that knowing someone's true name gives you power over them, a belief that occurs in many cultures across many times. This again suggests some primitive cognitive machinery that gets activated by being watched too closely. And that explains the intuitive feeling of creepiness, but it also undermines the idea that that feeling is rational.
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Re: The REAL ID.

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:07 pm

Carleas wrote: if someone were actually following you around surreptitiously taking note of everything you do, that would cause for alarm.
That is happening much more than people realize. I really can't suggest a more interesting book than...

https://www.amazon.com/Age-Surveillance ... 1610395697

Very well documented, huge notes and detailed sourcing. And even for the faintly paranoid utterly surprising. This has gone much further than most people, even privacy activists, realize.

And if smart cities arrive, there will be no avoiding 'someone' surreptitiously following you and taking notes on everything we do. It will happen automatically.

Might not be dystopian, as long as the power this can concentrate and will concentrate never uses it. Of this, I am skeptical.
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Re: The REAL ID.

Postby Carleas » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:56 pm

I think I did not make the distinction as clearly as I'd intended.

There are important differences between, 1) someone literally following only you around and taking notes about your activities, and 2) someone setting up a system of cameras that tracks the movements of everyone who passes them. The difference is the targeting: the person in case 2 doesn't care about you, and their setting up the cameras gives you no good evidence that they care about you. They aren't watching you, they aren't sneaking around behind you, they very likely don't have a concept of you as a distinct and specific person.

The first case is much greater cause for concern than the second, and Real ID and the surveillance state are examples of the second case.
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Re: The REAL ID.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:56 pm

Honestly, most people don't even have anything special or worth hiding in the first place.

People are boring.
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Re: The REAL ID.

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:21 pm

Carleas wrote:I think I did not make the distinction as clearly as I'd intended.

There are important differences between, 1) someone literally following only you around and taking notes about your activities, and 2) someone setting up a system of cameras that tracks the movements of everyone who passes them. The difference is the targeting: the person in case 2 doesn't care about you, and their setting up the cameras gives you no good evidence that they care about you. They aren't watching you, they aren't sneaking around behind you, they very likely don't have a concept of you as a distinct and specific person.
Unless they want to. And with the types of AI systems already in place, they can have heuristics to draw you to the attention of
employers
courts
corporations - for various reasons
governments
law enforcement
insurance companies

Which might be fine if these were all good organizations, and then also if the very power itself cannot corrupt.
Already this is not passive. It is not just that current and planned surveillance waits for law breaking. They are already selling information about you to other companies. and this information is being shared with governments and corporations for whatever reasons these latter organizations want.

Again, I encourage a reading of the linked book above. It is already much further along than people realize and smart cities and other tendencies to use smart devices for everything - iow it is getting harder and harder to opt out - means that people have access to your information and do not need to even have adequate security against illegal third parties. Your robot vaccuum cleaner, yes, if you link it to your phone as instructed, let's third parties know the lay out of your apartment. Televisions are listening to sounds in your apartment.

And so much more.

The first case is much greater cause for concern than the second, and Real ID and the surveillance state are examples of the second case.
The latter allows for the former. And it would be very hard to even track if the companies lost your information to hackers, or to competitor industries to your company, or to whomever. Me, I am much more concerned about the concentration of power these technologies allow already enormously powerful entities. But even if your concern is a more focused interpersonal stalking, these new technologies open many more doors for that.
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