Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:28 pm

The topic is Trump is not 'nuts' but has performed well objectively in accordance his terms of employment so far in 2+ years into his presidential terms.


That isn't the topic and never was, you and I both have already disagreed with the premise of the topic.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:29 am

One survey where Trumps approval abroad is up in 29 contries.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-25/ ... al/9899778
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:42 am

The next time you'd like to promote perpetual peace you might try another approach, the one you chose didn't "play" real well.

Peace will only come when the planets resources are distributed equitably. That is not Trumps gig. And if you are the expert in business that you claim it's not likely your gig either.

Coming from left of center.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Prismatic567 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:38 am

Mowk wrote:The next time you'd like to promote perpetual peace you might try another approach, the one you chose didn't "play" real well.

Peace will only come when the planets resources are distributed equitably. That is not Trumps gig. And if you are the expert in business that you claim it's not likely your gig either.

Coming from left of center.

Whatever I had posted is aligned to the OP and on topic.

To focus on perpetual peace is off topic.
This is a complex and serious topic and not relevant to Trump's circumstances. If you want to bang on it, start a new thread on it.
Btw, not "distributed equitably", but optimally.

In a setting of perpetual peace, resources should be allocated with consensus to those who generated the greatest "costs to benefits ratio" for the sake of all of humanity. There are more to this but it is off topic.
Note Theory of Constraints, and the likes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_constraints
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Prismatic567 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:44 am

Mowk wrote:One survey where Trumps approval abroad is up in 29 contries.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-25/ ... al/9899778

Up in some but down in most.

I mentioned earlier most of my relatives and friends from the East do not have a good impression of Trump. They viewed him VERY [extra-ordinarily and extremely] negatively.
This is because they have been brainwashed and bewitched by the media who are monopolized by the left's ideology from sources like BBC, CNN, New York Times, Washington Post, and others. The local papers also get their sources from the leftist orientated sources.

It is fortunate for myself that I am heavily objective oriented with Philosophy-proper as my forte. The first thing I look for is stories from both sides and weigh them objectively and philosophically.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:24 am

I mentioned earlier most of my relatives and friends from the East do not have a good impression of Trump. They viewed him VERY [extra-ordinarily and extremely] negatively.
This is because they have been brainwashed and bewitched by the media who are monopolized by the left's ideology from sources like BBC, CNN, New York Times, Washington Post, and others. The local papers also get their sources from the leftist orientated sources.


Bet that makes you the hit at a party. Ok, so pretty much everyone that is your family and friends aren't capable of thinking for themselves? So what portion of the population do you estimate isn't brainwashed by the left. Being on the left I must be brainwashing someone, huh, perhaps even these very words. You don't seem to be inclined to the thinking that the right is at all capable of brainwashing. It always seems to sort of be cast in a particular leftist sort of direction. How very objective of you. You've got a fairly well impressed ego yourself, don't you? Good luck with your distorted and twisted notion of peace.

You just want to make more money. I'm no expert in business as you claim to be. You are worse then brainwashed, you are delusional. And you have the nads to criticize my arguments of Trump as being one sided. You seem to have cornered the market in that regard. And worse you claim philosophy is yours. Boy you are heading in the opposite direction of peace. I have a compass or two I could spare.

Over the course of this discussion I have come to find you disingenuous in your claims. Low integrity. I'm just guessing but it sounds an awful lot like you have been brainwashed by the right. I am aware it's complicated. You somehow think anyone else isn't capable of being aware of that? I am sure that it is even more complicated then you are capable of comprehending.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:44 am

Prismatic567 wrote:This is because they have been brainwashed and bewitched by the media who are monopolized by the left's ideology from sources like BBC, CNN, New York Times, Washington Post, and others. The local papers also get their sources from the leftist orientated sources..
It's amazing that these enormous media corporations dependent on the advertising of other enormous corporations allow leftist slanted news and foster it somehow through their hiring practices. And that all of this Leftist propaganda never manages to sever wall st. control of presidential cabinets - neither when 'left' nor 'right' candidates come into office. That it never leads to campaign finance or lobbying reform and regardless of whether it is a democrat or republic in office it never stops presidents from starting wars or regime changes at the behest of wall st. banks, the arms and oil industries. The oligarchy should be so unenamored with leftist journalists. And of course in Trumps case even rightist news organizations tried to prevent him coming in.

In truth he hasn't done much at all, except the deficit.

But, I agree, he's not nuts. He's a black sheep businessman in the oligarchy and they wanted a more traditional neo-con.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Prismatic567 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:21 am

Mowk wrote:
I mentioned earlier most of my relatives and friends from the East do not have a good impression of Trump. They viewed him VERY [extra-ordinarily and extremely] negatively.
This is because they have been brainwashed and bewitched by the media who are monopolized by the left's ideology from sources like BBC, CNN, New York Times, Washington Post, and others. The local papers also get their sources from the leftist orientated sources.


Bet that makes you the hit at a party. Ok, so pretty much everyone that is your family and friends aren't capable of thinking for themselves? So what portion of the population do you estimate isn't brainwashed by the left. Being on the left I must be brainwashing someone, huh, perhaps even these very words. You don't seem to be inclined to the thinking that the right is at all capable of brainwashing. It always seems to sort of be cast in a particular leftist sort of direction. How very objective of you. You've got a fairly well impressed ego yourself, don't you? Good luck with your distorted and twisted notion of peace.


Every time there is a discussion related to Trump within family, relatives and friends, they will speak with zeal and great conviction, Trump is a terrible and horrible person. It is not easy for me to counter and argue, less I want to generate antagonism from them. It is not worth to counter since that is a mere table talk without any thing serious at stake.

However the above is evidence how much the negative propaganda and fake news of the media and left has brainwashed and bewitched the majority around the world who are not exposed to any balanced views regarding Trump.
It is very natural for one to believe whatever that is forced in the mind and brains on a daily basis.
I believe 90% of the population of the rest of the world [those who read and listen to various media] are brainwashed by the left.

These days there is very less intellectual decency as expected from the philosophical perspective, i.e. justified true beliefs.
What we have is intellectual pornography lusting for lies and irrational truths.

I believe the right will also attempt to brainwash and win over followers but they don't have the means since the media, academic, entertainments industries are monopolized by the left.

Btw, I do not go for labels but rather I agree with is optimal for the well being of humanity and for perpetual peace. Obviously I am not agreeable to the religious inclinations of the 'Right' in the USA. I believe in effective prevention rather than banning abortion.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:18 am

I believe 90% of the population of the rest of the world [those who read and listen to various media] are brainwashed by the left.


I'm inclined to ask what percentage of the population of the planet you think that is.

Where is your sense of a balanced perspective? So pretty much everyone in the US has some access to media, yet Trump scores a 46% approval.

I'm not always sure which ideology that is left of center you refer to. Perhaps you could clear that up for us all. Anyone who refers to a relative direction in two dimensions needs to be a bit more precise about what your bitch really is. Yeah, 90% of the population is over there to the left, and they are brainwashing everyone else. What sort of fulcrum are you applying to keep the mass all in the center?

Fake news? What is that? It as a talking point doesn't make sense. If we were really serious about the problem we'd call it something a little more old fashion like not being truthful. So you can pretty much include every fucking human on the planet of spreading fake news. If everyone is doing it then it can't be a function of just those on your left, it's all of them over there. Let's see, I'm looking North so it's all of those over there to the west.

They are all looking to the south and going WTF? Do we have the map backwards? Just what direction is that coming from? Is that coming from one of your so called relative directions?

It's Sesame Street, Mister Rogers and Winnie the Pooh, that are to blame. The left has no redeeming value. You only talk of the negative stuff. Charlie Brown and Snoopy, Lucy and Linus, he was a socialist don't you know? Bert and Ernie were gay lovers.

"On Walden Pond", "A Sand County Almanac", "Tom Sawyer", "Catch 22" all leftist literature; media, corrupting everyone.

I think you are going to have to be more clear, with your criticisms. Cause by your own definition you're sounding sort of, hum >biased<, and not really clear who or what you've got your issues with. Is it people, whether they are left or right handed, whether they are left or right brained, or whether they are dyslexic?

Can there be such a thing as peace without transparency?

If 90% of the population is so easily brainwashed that seems to speak volumes about the education systems in play. Yet Trump still has a 46% approval rating. If the left had as much influence as you claim I'd have guessed his approval ratings would be a lot less, given your math. You claim to be be objective, rational. Someone with the fortitude to resist all that pressure to conform.

You do appear to be a rock. What about the fluidity and spontaneity that drives it all? Is that coming from one of your so called political directions?

Another round on the karmic wheel might be just what we both need. It's a metaphor.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:55 am

That notion of justified true belief has it's limits. Its record is wrought with short cummings. You can hold the door open, and sometimes truth drops in your lap, and then you question it again. And sometimes you have to dig and dig and dig again, and then question your beliefs.

Wash, rinse, repeat. Or, chop wood and carry water. The foundation of it all is just elements repelling and attracting each other. Just how significant do think human kind is? There is a lot out there.

I'd rather be a speck of dust in a really big pond then a grain of rice in a really small one even if the small one dwarfs the imagination. That idea you have about perpetual peace, it could be much smaller, and yeah, it all starts somewhere.

Then again, the cosmos doesn't appear to be all that peaceful, even our solar systems can be a pretty harsh place, depending on how it's defined. You might as well start a religion, all those over on the left, you're sinners, and you can go to hell, super novas, and black holes that includes you too, and that dark matter too, what ever it is... its dark; which ever direction that is. I just know it isn't right and if it isn't right it must be left.

The opinion is yours, I'm just trying to figure out your directions.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:45 am

So far the original poster hasn't complained nor had moderation taken a stance.

For now I think we can play ball a little while longer before the owners run us out.

Have you noticed how many no trespassing signs are around? What's that all about?
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby obsrvr524 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:21 am

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:I'm not a psychologist but I did study psychology a little bit.

Trump is clearly suffering from anti-social personality disorder and probably narcissistic personality disorder. He has no conscience. He demands people worship him because he's empty on the inside. He's a compulsive liar. He's unable to form close relationships with other people because he has no sense of empathy.

He has grandiose visions of himself although he is highly insecure and he bristles when anyone critiques him.

He's a complete sociopath, in my opinion.

Does everyone agree that he's nuts?

I see him as a man with social insecurities, wanting and expecting (until recently) everyone to love him for doing such a great job. It is a common enough state for white males these days.

Trump, as most Americans, thought that the President is actually supposed to do his job. Trump used his long practiced real estate salesman self-promotion assertiveness to enthusiastically take on the challenge. I'm sure that he was shocked to find so many politicians ignoring their own jobs just to oppose him. Although aware of the deep state, he had no idea just how deep and long standing it was.

He has only been able to do such an outstanding and remarkable job because those before him were never actually trying. He is one of the actual, real Americans - those people you hate so much.

Typically lions have orange hair, are not terribly bright, but are strong. Not all of them are asleep tonight. And it only takes one.

He is the bizarre cure to an even more bizarre disease infecting the jungle.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Prismatic567 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:24 am

Mowk wrote:
I believe 90% of the population of the rest of the world [those who read and listen to various media] are brainwashed by the left.


I'm inclined to ask what percentage of the population of the planet you think that is.

Where is your sense of a balanced perspective? So pretty much everyone in the US has some access to media, yet Trump scores a 46% approval.

I'm not always sure which ideology that is left of center you refer to. Perhaps you could clear that up for us all. Anyone who refers to a relative direction in two dimensions needs to be a bit more precise about what your bitch really is. Yeah, 90% of the population is over there to the left, and they are brainwashing everyone else. What sort of fulcrum are you applying to keep the mass all in the center?

Fake news? What is that? It as a talking point doesn't make sense. If we were really serious about the problem we'd call it something a little more old fashion like not being truthful. So you can pretty much include every fucking human on the planet of spreading fake news. If everyone is doing it then it can't be a function of just those on your left, it's all of them over there. Let's see, I'm looking North so it's all of those over there to the west.

They are all looking to the south and going WTF? Do we have the map backwards? Just what direction is that coming from? Is that coming from one of your so called relative directions?

It's Sesame Street, Mister Rogers and Winnie the Pooh, that are to blame. The left has no redeeming value. You only talk of the negative stuff. Charlie Brown and Snoopy, Lucy and Linus, he was a socialist don't you know? Bert and Ernie were gay lovers.

"On Walden Pond", "A Sand County Almanac", "Tom Sawyer", "Catch 22" all leftist literature; media, corrupting everyone.

I think you are going to have to be more clear, with your criticisms. Cause by your own definition you're sounding sort of, hum >biased<, and not really clear who or what you've got your issues with. Is it people, whether they are left or right handed, whether they are left or right brained, or whether they are dyslexic?

Can there be such a thing as peace without transparency?

If 90% of the population is so easily brainwashed that seems to speak volumes about the education systems in play. Yet Trump still has a 46% approval rating. If the left had as much influence as you claim I'd have guessed his approval ratings would be a lot less, given your math. You claim to be be objective, rational. Someone with the fortitude to resist all that pressure to conform.

You do appear to be a rock. What about the fluidity and spontaneity that drives it all? Is that coming from one of your so called political directions?

Another round on the karmic wheel might be just what we both need. It's a metaphor.

JTB is not perfect, 99% perfect is very much acceptable.
Note Scientific Theories are JTBs, not fully perfect but very 'true' reliable and a positive contribution to humanity.

Note the world has 7+ billion people.
If 90% that would be 6.3 billion.
That means 700 million [10%] are pro-Trump which would cover the 46% or appx. 160 million of right wing Americans.
You can be that thick to assume the 46% in US is applicable worldwide.
The above figures are still sensible.

To be more realistic and specific, I meant 90% of the population of non-Americans who have access and are exposed to news on Trump would be likely to be brainwashed and bewitched to view Trump very negatively.

Btw, the above 90% of non-American do not have to left-wing in the American political sense.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:02 am

JTBG,works for me. Just The Best Guess. (Leftist ideology in example) It's the absolute nature of what is True that sort of side tracks JTB. If it's failed once it will again. Just The Best Guess, can fail and not take the notion of truth down with itself. How many lives have been lost wagering on that one percent? Justifiable is fallible, itself as thought. We really give it a good world effort but it's a metric we get closer to in half increments. I think admitting it is just a guess provides more prudence. The risk isn't so easy to take.

Problem is the more brazen we become with the Idea of JTB the closer we take ourselves to the brink of failure. Ninety nine percent and some bad decisions caused Chernobyl and throw in an earthquake and resulting tsunami and you end up with Fukushima with an extra point one percent for experience.You let a right wing enterprise like Duke Energy contain coal ash behind a dike and a flood comes and the next thing you know there is an unexplained high rate of cancer in the neighborhood affected. I don't care if it's point .00001, its a guess and the world's ecosystems take it in the shorts. It gives anyone who has it, a false sense of security, we're on the side of justifiably true, now lets go rape a planets viability for life. What are the odds? Look at the net potential for profit. And that is just the environmental impact, think of the social impact as well. Deprive people who have their neck in it up to here, any sort of security in old age, because it's profitable to a few?

How many industrial fuck ups that keep growing larger and larger in impact can we, the right and the left endure. How smart is that? Even if you consider yourself on the right, chances are good that you're not. Lions do kill their own kind if they aren't direct offspring. You related to anyone in power from the right? The left sees progeny in general, less of an issue then life itself.

You haven't answered the question of direction.

I sort of see it as... on the right you have this notion of "every man for himself", fuck you if I can figure out how I can take it I will. Lions, hyenas and wolves are pretty much this sort of predator. On the left you have the "all for one and one for all sort" Stock up, save up for when the weather turns inclement. We can all get through this. The lefts creativity is communal property for the common good, the rights creativity is how it can be leveraged for the highest individual advantage. It sort of swings the same way politically. The right is... "don't tell me what to do" and the left is "if anyone has a good idea I'm game, and if no one has, what about this idea." Their are just too many examples of the pattern to deny, unless you are brainwashed.

Like the example of nature a well balanced ecosystem has them in a proportion that involves some checks and balances. Perhaps those very checks and balances are already in play. Your notion of brainwashed is just the system coming up against some really unbalanced circumstances and trying to put some checks on those circumstances. The sheep are getting smarter, cause the predators are getting just way too hungry for a food that can not sustain them.

If I'm wrong about what you consider the left? Chime on it. You've been painfully inarticulate besides "its the left". Another thought is 90% of the population of sheep are just getting fed up with the lions hunger. A better ratio would be 98% and the predators got no right messing up our grazing land. it's the American people with the carrot of you too can become a predator, just don't ask too many questions how were going to do it, dangled on a stick sort of brainwashing that is taking place. A sort of farm, all nice and contained for slaughter. And the the 90% of which you speak are seeing it coming.

It involves a much smaller set of people that requires brainwashing. Optimal, as you say.

Repeating patterns. Not seeing them? You're too close. You're not alone, my best guess is Trump doesn't see them either. If he does it's like Pavlov's dog. Come on... ring the bell, ring it, ring it, ring it. I'm getting hungry just thinking about it.

Can sheep graze the planet bare? Hell yes. We need predators to cull the heard. I just feel rather uncomfortable with the thought that wolves can come to the thought that they own the herd. Do you really lean that far right? Or are you a sheep is wolves clothing, or a wolf is sheep's clothing?

The real right, the one percent you keep apologizing for, appreciates your efforts, Predators on the planet actually account for a fairly low percentage of life that exists on the planet. You drive them to the point of extinction the right does, with it's ideology and we start to think of the role of predators in an ecosystem. But wolves and lions compete with man. Where is that going to end in a right leaning economy?

The right is like, I don't need no stinking lion competing with me? And it is there where your ideas of JTB's ends as short sighted.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:17 am

Greed is a vector of great force in any direction of less pressure. There isn't a direction it doesn't saturate once porosity reaches a threshold. That one percent pours it's acid down into the substrata, eating away at everything until the very fabric of reason has no cellulose to hold itself together. Both the wanna be left and the wanna be right are being brainwashed. To the one percent it is only a matter of up and down. The one percent can drown you regardless of which side of the river you swim. Roman emperors didn't point their thumbs left or right.

So why wouldn't it be a good idea to error on the side of mother earth? The provider. I don't need you for no stinking job, I am already the job I am, and in my case I'm not too happy about it. I certainly din't sign up for this role. I inherited it. A day goes by and and I don't want to let you just have it is a good day. Best not to fuck with it. No I'm not going to buy into your bullshit any longer.

Not specifically directed at you individually more us individually. 99% against 1%. And they have already succeeded in getting us to fight among ourselves. Man, I see your heart, it beats palpably, it's in a place a whole lot different then your head. That one percent's heart runs on fossil fuel and what it can control.

Free thinkers tend to adapt to what they can't control. But the means available for adaptation?

How much have you thrown away today? What gets thrown away in the second and third worlds. What is waste in first world country's. What litters our deserts and oceans?

The one percent doesn't care. They can pretty much buy themselves out of any predicament they create. Wealth for it's own sake does that. And that, in my opinion is what the extreme right is doing. All aboard?

But nature did evolve into a predator prey relationship. Even if I throw my thinking in one direction I am aware the other may be the more viable. Or maybe they may ever coexist in context. If you can fold your head around the idea "that" is perpetual peace, or as close as we will ever come to the idea. I can grok that. A sort of orchestral harmony.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:44 am

:mrgreen: So yeah, if Trump is nuts, I am too. More then plausible. He has no corner on that market. For every yard I extend to myself he has a yard. His is bigger in certain respects and smaller in others. You do the math. But be certain your equations balance, at least try. And maybe try as you will you might just succeed. Cause that's the way math seems to work at this scale. The really big and the really small don't appear all that concerned.
OP, are you listening?
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:10 pm

Silhouette wrote:
FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Silhouette wrote:People who wish they were like that would disagree.

addendum: (there's a lot of them! - some post here, prepare for the deluge of apologism)


What.

Didn't that make sense to you? It still seems fine to me upon re-reading, but to clarify:

It seems to me as though some people actually admire the characteristics you describe, and that many even wish those characteristics fit themselves more than they already do.

Like so many people, he is beneath the intellectual and psychological game that those in politics are all trying to bend to their advantage - like a special needs kid who got into a chess tournament somehow, moves all the pieces around however he wants, switches them in plain view and denies it all - and all the people who could never compete at chess marvel at his genius in breaking all the rules and playing a different game to the mainstream. Another analogy might be modern art turning into taking a dump, and raking in the receipts through brand recognition and other base-level superficiality that cons fools into thinking they "get" art now. It's a spectacle, in fitting with his background in reality TV and paranoidly managed public perception of success.

The irony is that politics already devolved into meaningless emptiness, such that when it's juxta posed with open meaningless and emptiness it reveals it for all to see: the emperor's new clothes. The kid isn't doing anything clever, and isn't meaning to expose anything, they're just being a kid in public view - unintentionally serving as what was needed. Rulers who kept a fool were smarter - comedy has long been intentionally subverting politics, to the point where an unintentional fool can now simply "be there" and the whole thing falls apart.

He's very obviously winging it. The idea that it's intentional or even intelligent is wishful thinking - someone making stuff up on the spot and simply "saying things" looks exactly like what he's doing. There isn't even a hint of hidden competence underneath. It entertains, and fits the the dim view of "winning" in the eyes of those who know only petty cattiness. And the system is so far up its own ass it doesn't know what to do with it. He's highly pathological and obviously narcissistic, and has the lack of conscience characteristic of a psychopath - not necessarily making him one, but insofar as this makes him "nuts", the point is that he's an idiot in charge. The ones celebrating this for some emotional reason think they're being clever, and attribute anything that can be seen as positive specifically to their figurehead's intention through confirmation bias - it's embarrassing seeing the vulnerable get conned.


I agree with all of this.

I do not really see him as being "nuts" as "nuts' goes per se but at times I can also see him as a runaway train about ready to derail. There is only so long you can hang onto a weak limb. Is it possible that he is BP?
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

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