comment from Elie Wiesel

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comment from Elie Wiesel

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:09 pm

"Always take side. Neutrality helps the oppressor,
never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor,
never the tormented"

For you cowards who proclaim, "a pox on both houses"
For you who escape responsibility by simply refusing to
engage in the ongoing conflict, by refusing to take a side.....

You are guilty because you have refused to engage in the ever present
battle between justice and injustice......

You are guilty because by being neutral, you allow
injustice to overcome the innocent and the oppresed.....

A pox on your house for refusing to engage.....
Neutrality is no excuse for allowing the unjust
to punish their opponents.

You, by your silence, allow the strong to
browbeat the weak.

Your silence is tacit acceptence of the injustice
practice by strong and powerful, be it individuals or corporations.....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: comment from Elie Wiesel

Postby Mad Man P » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:55 am

The world is big and filled to the brim with injustice...
"I'm just saying that if we want to have a fruitful discussion, we all need to know what the fuck we're talking about" - Carleas

There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
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Re: comment from Elie Wiesel

Postby phyllo » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:51 pm

Your silence is tacit acceptence of the injustice
Maybe what you consider injustice is not what others consider injustice.
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Re: comment from Elie Wiesel

Postby lordoflight » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:45 pm

Both sides are bad, so there's no reason for me to choose a side.



America is not ran by Hitler and Lenin.

But lets pretend for a minute the only two parties to choose are the Hitler party and Lenin party. Hitler killed 6 million, Lenin killed 60 million. I don't see any reason for you, Peter, to choose a side.

Democrats and Republicans are both bad options, and the 2 party system as a whole is fascist inherently, no reason to contribute to the 2 party delusion which brought out this mess in the first place. Some day the sheeple will see the 2 party system as a scammy tyranny which it is.
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Re: comment from Elie Wiesel

Postby Mr Reasonable » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:10 am

Peter, I could not in good conscience vote for either Clinton or Trump. Does it count as taking a side when you want to contribute to the idea that less people voting signifies a lesser degree of satisfaction with the choices? I don't think that everything in the world comes down to 2 sides. If anything, I think the far left and the far right are more similar than they are different. They each think they've got the right plan, they each abandon reason when it suits their narrative, and they each fail to represent the majority of people. It's a sad state of affairs. I told a friend today, "I knew something was up in America when all of a sudden out of nowhere one year half the people I talked to called me a nazi and the other half called me a snowflake". Something is wrong with that. Neither side respects the humanity of the other side. The whole thing is a bit dumb if you ask me, so I take the side of the reasonable person who's fed up with people who either believe that Pelosi or Trump are infallible. They aren't.
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Re: comment from Elie Wiesel

Postby lordoflight » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:08 pm

Mr Reasonable wrote:Peter, I could not in good conscience vote for either Clinton or Trump. Does it count as taking a side when you want to contribute to the idea that less people voting signifies a lesser degree of satisfaction with the choices? I don't think that everything in the world comes down to 2 sides. If anything, I think the far left and the far right are more similar than they are different. They each think they've got the right plan, they each abandon reason when it suits their narrative, and they each fail to represent the majority of people. It's a sad state of affairs. I told a friend today, "I knew something was up in America when all of a sudden out of nowhere one year half the people I talked to called me a nazi and the other half called me a snowflake". Something is wrong with that. Neither side respects the humanity of the other side. The whole thing is a bit dumb if you ask me, so I take the side of the reasonable person who's fed up with people who either believe that Pelosi or Trump are infallible. They aren't.


My thoughts exactly.
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Re: comment from Elie Wiesel

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:02 pm

Mr Reasonable wrote:Peter, I could not in good conscience vote for either Clinton or Trump. Does it count as taking a side when you want to contribute to the idea that less people voting signifies a lesser degree of satisfaction with the choices? I don't think that everything in the world comes down to 2 sides. If anything, I think the far left and the far right are more similar than they are different. They each think they've got the right plan, they each abandon reason when it suits their narrative, and they each fail to represent the majority of people. It's a sad state of affairs. I told a friend today, "I knew something was up in America when all of a sudden out of nowhere one year half the people I talked to called me a nazi and the other half called me a snowflake". Something is wrong with that. Neither side respects the humanity of the other side. The whole thing is a bit dumb if you ask me, so I take the side of the reasonable person who's fed up with people who either believe that Pelosi or Trump are infallible. They aren't.


K: and here we are two years later and what a massive clusterfuck we have......
You have the GOP clearly trying to shut down democracy in states like
Wisc and N.C and their efforts to prevent people from voting, voting,
the very essence of democracy.....then you have the shitshow in Washington
where IQ45 has sold his soul to Putin, along with the entire GOP and you say
there is no difference? No difference between the parties? How in god's name
can you say that? And this is what I rail against, the pox on both houses
game that equates the two parties, when in fact, we don't have the democrats
taking children away from their parents at the border, where we don't have
the democrats selling their soul to that terrorist organization, the NRA, where
we don't have the democrats committing treason for aiding and abetting
Putin and Mother Russia.....To equate the GOP party and the democrats is to
say the democrats have committed treason on the large scale that the GOP has,
and that is simply not true..... Have the democrats demostrated the
racist, bigoted, misogynist language and actions of the GOP?
How can you equate the GOP attempts to demonize women, minorities,
immigrants to what the democrats do? Are the democrats perfect? no,
I will not say that we are even close to being perfect.... but are you perfect?
No, of course not, but should you belong to the party that better reflects
your values... and should you encourage a party that encourages and
practices those negative values of racism and bigotry? To equate the two
parties is to say, you know what, I don't care that the GOP practices
racism and bigotry and misogyny because the other guys are just as bad...
and THE OTHER SIDE IS FAR BETTER, but not perfect.....

to say a pox on both houses is to allow the GOP their vast attempts
to deny democracy and to demonize anyone who isn't white, middle class
and rich...……

and to say a pox on both houses is to give permission to the GOP in their
attempts deny democracy and practice their racist, bigotry and misogyny
and that is what Wiesel saying..... do say nothing or to say a pox on both houses is
to permit these actions just it permitted the Nazi Holocaust to start and cause
the death of millions... there is no difference between your saying a pox on both houses
and the average German saying the exact same thing and look at what happened to the
German.. You might say, nah, it is different? And how is it different? The average German
by their silence gave their consent to the holocaust and you are giving consent by your silence
to the racist, bigoted, misogynist words and actions of the GOP.....

If you don't speak up, who will and if you don't act, who will and if
you simple say, it is not my problem that people are being denied their
their rights, their freedom, then you are in denying the
declaration of independence which has stated, quite clearly that

" We hold these truths to be self evident, all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their creator with certain alienable rights,
that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure
these rights, government is instituted among men"

To give permission by silence to the GOP, you are denying these words,
you are giving them permission to deny people their right to life, liberty
and the pursuit of happiness.... and yet you claim their is no difference
between the two parties and yet, I don't see the Democrats denying
your rights by engaging in racism or bigotry or misogyny...…...or curtailing
your rights to vote as a basic function to our democracy... for if you deny
voting, you are denying democracy at its basic level and the GOP practice
denying voting is part of the heart of being republican.

If you claim I am overclaiming the words and practices of the
GOP, then I submit that you don't understand the consequences
of your ignorance or your silence and that you are complicit in the GOP
war on democracy by repeating that false meme of there is no difference
or simply saying silent and watch bad people inflict bad things on innocent
people...….or do you deny the Nazi's did anything bad?

If you cannot see that the GOP has copied the Nazi playbook
to a t.. then you are not only complicit in their war on democracy,
but you don't care...…..and that is a very sad commentary on who you are..
what you stand for and what it means to be human......for I shall continue
to speak out because to not do so says that I approve of racism, bigotry
and misogyny and I don't approve of the basic right of people to be equal
and to pursue their own happiness......to engage in life and liberty....

I shall not be silent while others have their right to have "life, liberty
and the pursuit of happiness" denied....I am sorry you are ok with people
being denied their rights... for your silence condemns you, convicts you
of complicity to deny their rights and to say, a pox on both houses also condemns
you to a guilty charge of denying people their rights to life liberty and the pursuit
of happiness......

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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