The essence of fascism

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The essence of fascism

Postby WW_III_ANGRY » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:27 pm

The past 3 years of living in America have taught me a lot about the rise of fascism in the early 1930’s. The rise of fascism in the early 1930’s have taught me quite a bit about the time we are living in now in America. There are interesting and valid parallels, some of which I will present here.

The fascist mentality that rose in 1930’s was not something new though, at any time in history. It is a mentality that has deep roots that extend deep into humanity’s past. This mentality is not something that has disappeared as well, as many would want you to believe when you dare discuss the parallels of fascism in modern history. Of course, this is because they hold a mindset that ultimately will favor fascist hate filled sentiment when push comes to shove.

While fascism is totalitarian oppressive absolutism when implemented to the nth degree, the make up of fascism of course occurs well before any of that can or may even be possible to be implemented. That being, Hitler did not become a fascist when he became in power, Nazi’s were not suddenly fascist when they came in power, they were fascist long before they had any ability to implement their totalitarian regime. For the sake of argument, I will not be referring to fascism as a fully implemented absolute form of government, but the mentality behind it, the views of the fascist mind.

I have found that the essence of fascism is hatred and historically it is the hatred of leftism, liberals, and any ethnic minority groups or foreigners that are seen as a threat to the dominant culture of a nation. Fascism has risen out of economic and cultural plight simultaneously. In 1929, not only was the German economy wrecked from World War I reparations, the Great Depression began as well. This economic catastrophe left people broken and vulnerable, and one of the things they were left vulnerable to was hate. Now, there was hate filled demonizations of Jewish people preceding as well, as throughout human history any minority ethnic group is typically going to have a portion of the majority population to hate them, as they have not assimilated to the degree that the dominant culture demands. This hatred exploded with the economic plight of Germany, they were scapegoated and blamed for it and demonized with lies and hatred that if you believed the lies, it would make you hate them as well, and of course, left you with the delusion that they all must be killed. This is what demonization and hate filled propaganda results in.

The Jews, were speaking a foreign language, doing business with themselves primarily and had their own thriving subset of culture. Their businesses were sustained by Jewish customers and they had a subset of culture foreign to German culture. They were doing fairly well on their own and as such were hated and vulnerable to become the scapegoat for the economic plight of Germany. The similarity today of course, is the Mexican immigrant. They too speak a different language, they too have their foreign culture and they too have shops and little areas of cities in which stores show only Spanish signs. Many are here illegally and have been for some time. The lament of “press 1 for English and press 2 for Spanish when paying bills is used as fodder as to how they are coming into take “our land”. They are invaders, illegal or not, because enough of them have come here illegally to provide the demonization that they are bad hombres, sending their worst people, criminals, rapists. Any news instance of one of them doing anything of the sort is exploded as fodder for the justifications and rationalization to stereotype and demonize these illegal immigrants as evil and a scourge on white culture.

The United States had its economic plight as well, not as severe as Germany, but we did have the 2008 financial crisis which wrecked many Americans. While the United States recovered rather steadily in America, the hate filled demonizations of liberals that exploded on the scene around that time continued to fester and grow. The internet has made the dissemination of hate filled propaganda to be spread easily, in epidemic proportions. While we recovered economically fairly well, the demonization of liberals never waned. They too were the scapegoats of everything, regardless of reality. They allowed for Mexicans to come to the border, to “take our jobs”, even though white America would not necessarily even want the jobs that were being done. Conditions were ripe to point the finger for economic plight and fear that they were feeling, that their country was being overrun and white culture under threat.

Hatred was implemented based on lies and demonizations, in which Obama is seen by many as literally worse than Hitler, because of the lying hate filled propaganda they believed that would, if believed, would make you think the same. Vulnerable and angry at the situation, the conservatives found their scapegoat for the plight they perceived, which is largely based on lies with some reality mixed in, that led to a hate that seems to be only based on lying hate filled propaganda. It led to a divorce from reality in which fascism thrives. The rejection of the media, in favor of alternative facts and their hate filled conspiracy theory ridden alternative “news” in which every single instance of reality is perverted to a highly polarized biased slight that demonizes liberals and exonerates themselves from any wrong doing, daily this is pounded, by the hour, thriving rapid dissemination of lies that if you believe them, one can only hate in turn.

The essence of fascism has always been the hatred of liberals, communism, Marxism, the left, as Hitler and Mussolini exemplify. It is based on lies and it is the death throe of an ideal culture, a culture that was romanticized and may never have been.
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Re: The essence of fascism

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:09 pm

Excellent post. You nailed it.
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Re: The essence of fascism

Postby URUZ » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:41 pm

orange man bad

#literallyhitler

diversity is our strength



error 404, facts not found

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Re: The essence of fascism

Postby lordoflight » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:41 pm

I dont agree with Hitler slaughtering all of the jews. But in this day and age you have to have to say everything about Hitler was insane and crazy or else everyone will call you an evil Nazi. But I don't believe everything about Hitler was crazy. Doesn't mean I want to send all Jews to the ovens. However in this day and age unless you blindly prostrate yourself to whatever is the latest liberal dogma, equality, #timesup, whatever the latest dogma is, you are viewed as some kind of social pariah and all that's wrong with the world, of course on on the "wrong side" of the future in a society that is supposedly approaching "progress". Progress meaning a McDonalds and Burger King on every corner, trash and litter everywhere, ear-rape music played in all stores, retards viewed as equals to high IQs, etc.

So yes, Hitler did drugs and some stuff about him was crazy. But that is not to say that the liberals, leftists in their purest form are not equally crazy. Everyone is equal supposedly, so everyone is crazy.

Basically it amounts to humans of low-breeding who can't seem to tell the difference between quality and quantity, Americanization. They can't tell the difference between Michael Jackson pop music and modern pop music. It's all equal. A meal at McDonalds they like more than a meal at a health food store. It's just their current (low) level of cognition. A city of dilaption and litter, with decay all around, they can't make the connection to race, because that implies they are an evil Nazi and Hitler. When the underlying thing is that such a primitive mode of thinking thinks in absolutes. Hitler thought in absolutes, same as leftists. When its really just a more sophisticated thing. Not all negro music is garbage music, for instance there was Michael Jackson. And not all whites are higher beings, a lot of whites are trash and garbage people.
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Re: The essence of fascism

Postby WW_III_ANGRY » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:53 pm

lordoflight wrote:I dont agree with Hitler slaughtering all of the jews. But in this day and age you have to have to say everything about Hitler was insane and crazy or else everyone will call you an evil Nazi.


This looks like a strawman, a mischaracterization. Everything about Hitler was insane and crazy? I've been around long enough to not see anyone say "everything" about Hitler was insane and crazy and never saw any type of arguments around this develop.

But I don't believe everything about Hitler was crazy. Doesn't mean I want to send all Jews to the ovens. However in this day and age unless you blindly prostrate yourself to whatever is the latest liberal dogma, equality, #timesup, whatever the latest dogma is, you are viewed as some kind of social pariah and all that's wrong with the world, of course on on the "wrong side" of the future in a society that is supposedly approaching "progress".


If you blindly prostrate yourself to the latest liberal dogma you are viewed as a social pariah? I don't think so. You seem overly sensitive to how you're viewed.

Progress meaning a McDonalds and Burger King on every corner, trash and litter everywhere, ear-rape music played in all stores, retards viewed as equals to high IQs, etc.


This is another strawman, there's nobody meaning for progress to be a McDonalds and Burger King on every corner except for those that maybe manage Burger King and Mcdonalds. "Retards viewed as equals to high IQ's" - This seems bizarre, but are you referring to "all men are created equal". I don't know what you're getting at but it certainly seems amiss.

So yes, Hitler did drugs and some stuff about him was crazy. But that is not to say that the liberals, leftists in their purest form are not equally crazy. Everyone is equal supposedly, so everyone is crazy.

This is just an unsubstantiated argument. One thing I've noticed in the age of the rise of fascist hate is that people pretend the worst of the left is representative of the whole.

Basically it amounts to humans of low-breeding who can't seem to tell the difference between quality and quantity, Americanization. They can't tell the difference between Michael Jackson pop music and modern pop music. It's all equal. A meal at McDonalds they like more than a meal at a health food store. It's just their current (low) level of cognition. A city of dilaption and litter, with decay all around, they can't make the connection to race, because that implies they are an evil Nazi and Hitler. When the underlying thing is that such a primitive mode of thinking thinks in absolutes. Hitler thought in absolutes, same as leftists. When its really just a more sophisticated thing. Not all negro music is garbage music, for instance there was Michael Jackson. And not all whites are higher beings, a lot of whites are trash and garbage people.


So you're saying Hitler did some good things too. But so what?
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Re: The essence of fascism

Postby Jakob » Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:21 pm

WW III, you are a disgusting disgrace.

My family barely survived the nazis, its such a disgusting thing to have to read your naive experienceless hollow hearted insults to hard working people.

Fucking American Liberals man. They think they can just take anything and make it their own.

You do not treat such terror as the Nazi reign lightly. Not if you have anything human in you.



It is Obama and Hillary Clinton who massacred hundreds of thousands during their reign. But you voted for them. That makes you - a fascist.



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Re: The essence of fascism

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:32 pm

Jakob wrote:WW III, you are a disgusting disgrace.
My family barely survived the nazis, its such a disgusting thing to have to read your naive experienceless hollow hearted insults to hard working people.

K: I don't see how "hard working" people fit into your narrative. The Nazi's did put into
concentration camps, communists and gays and liberals and of course, Jews, anyone
who did not fit into their "Aryan" viewpoint of the Germanic people.
WW did state facts.... it is you who are making the false interpretation of it.
He is simply making the comparison between the 1930's fascism and todays'
version of it. Today's version is the GOP "MAGA" and that "MAGA" today
is the same as Nazi's idea of "Aryan" nationalism.
WW has made it clear that he opposes the viewpoint, actions, ideals of the Nazi's
which is why he opposes today's GOP and its "Aryan" ideals of "MAGA".

J: Fucking American Liberals man. They think they can just take anything and make it their own".

K: here you are reading your own version of "MAGA" onto liberals and those people on the
left that you so devotedly wish to put into concentrations camps. Your hatred of liberals
and the left is quite evident.

J: You do not treat such terror as the Nazi reign lightly. Not if you have anything human in you.

K: it is you that lack human feelings. For you wish to have a second revival of
Nazi's concentration camps also with Jews, Gays, Liberals, communist... all those
type of people you hate and wish would be gone.

It is Obama and Hillary Clinton who massacred hundreds of thousands during their reign. But you voted for them. That makes you - a fascist.

K: ummm, facts please. It is a fact that Bush Jr. killed hundreds of thousands in his misguided and
foolish invasion and wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Show us where the "DIRECT" actions
of Obama and Clinton massacred hundreds of thousands.

J: May the dead you caused haunt you forever.


K: I do not believe in the sins of the father or grandfather should haunt
their childrens... one of the reasons I oppose/reject the bible because
the sins of the father should never haunt their children.
With that said, I hope that the images of the concentration camps
haunt everyone. Perhaps that will help people to understand
the evil of the Nazi's and the modern attempt to revive Nazism
with "MAGA".


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Re: The essence of fascism

Postby attano » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:40 pm

I share the view that is a very good post, yet I don’t think you really ‘nail it’.

WW_III_ANGRY wrote:The past 3 years of living in America have taught me a lot about the rise of fascism in the early 1930’s. The rise of fascism in the early 1930’s have taught me quite a bit about the time we are living in now in America. There are interesting and valid parallels, some of which I will present here.

Honestly, I am not an expert in this specific field, not even a good amateur at it. I rely mainly on my impressions, don’t have many facts to support my view.
That said, I share your point. This question deserves some scrutiny, viz. if we are currently being caught in the same dynamics that slightly less than 100 years ago spawned the two major fascist regimes in Europe. Here the adjective ‘same’ cannot be taken in its most literal meaning, nevertheless there are ‘forms’ that appear common to both situations.

WW_III_ANGRY wrote:The fascist mentality that rose in 1930’s was not something new though, at any time in history. It is a mentality that has deep roots that extend deep into humanity’s past. This mentality is not something that has disappeared as well, as many would want you to believe when you dare discuss the parallels of fascism in modern history. Of course, this is because they hold a mindset that ultimately will favor fascist hate filled sentiment when push comes to shove.

I find correct, as you say, to refer to a deep seated mentality that may become latent, yet not disappear. The question becomes what this ‘mentality’, or ‘mindset’, (or ‘dynamics’, or ‘forms, or whatever word is chosen) may be.
WW_III_ANGRY wrote:I have found that the essence of fascism is hatred and historically it is the hatred of leftism, liberals, and any ethnic minority groups or foreigners that are seen as a threat to the dominant culture of a nation.

I don’t think that’s false, yet I don’t think it’s the ‘essence’.
Ultimately, “hatred” is generic. Every ideology includes a “form of intense dislike” (that one way the dictionary defines “hatred”).
Politics, according to Carl Schmitt, is (also) based on creating an enemy («the specific political distinction […] is that between friend and enemy»). Socialists dislike free-marketers, as well as fascists, liberals dislike conservatives, as well as communists... and we can call that “hatred”, I see no problem in that.
I could agree more on hatred for ethnic minorities and foreigners, yet not quite.
All foreigners are not equal in hatred. There were SS divisions composed by (Aryan) foreigners. This quality ladder in foreigners is most probably assumed also by the current alt-right, though usually they don’t dwell on this and argue against mass immigration (which is not necessarily stupid). Mostly, your parallelism between Jews and Hispanics is not correct. There is one peculiar aspect you seem to miss. Your description of Jews may well apply to those in the Pale, but not to Jews in Germany. Those people were so very well integrated in the German society. There were Jew scientists, scholars, artists, politicians, bankers, entrepreneurs. The percentage of Jews in prominent positions in Germany was disproportionate with respect to their actual number in the country, and that’s kind of typical... Antisemitic jokes hinting to that still linger on even after WWII.
*That* was the problem.
The founding myth for the persecution of Jews in Hitler Germany was the stab-in-the-back. It was a conspiracy theory claiming that Germany lost WWI because of a Jews plot. Corroborated by the fabricated Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or by the fact that Marx was Jew (thou not exactly enthusiast about it, but that was irrelevant). A pervasive and obsessive propaganda made sure public opinion held Jews as the culprit of all evils afflicting Germany. Moreover, I guess social envy must have played a role. In the conditions you described, Jews publicly became hostis in urbe.

The deliberate use of conspiracy theory and forgery to back policy is typical of totalitarian regimes . And if you find similarities between this and the Trump Administration or the alt-right modus operandi, well, that’s exactly what I mean.
Anyway, this is to say that hatred is not the essence, I am not arguing that “conspirativism” is (is there a word for that? except ‘paranoia’, ‘conning’, ‘delusion’... ?). It does not specifically belong to fascist regimes, and not even to totalitarian regimes, the US used it before Trump, the Leave campaign in the UK was largely based on a probably concious use of lies.
Actually, thinking over it, “conspirativism” is required in polities still based on the rule-of-law. A dictatorship, wholly autocratic, would not need that, but, unlike what you claim, Fascism is not «totalitarian oppressive absolutism when implemented to the nth degree». Hitler was elected and fascist regimes retained a constitution. And that is why “conspirativism” is in their toolkit in order to justify the “exception”.
“Exception” is also a concept branded by Carl Scmitt and it is when the ‘normal’ law, or even the whole constitutional order is suspended and the simple will of the sovereign becomes the law. And all populists have a most clear idea on who is the sovereign and never stop repeating it: the people. Listen to the Trumps, the Bannons, the Salvinis, the Orbans, the Farages... it is always about what the ‘people’ (Americans, Italians, Hungarians,...) want. This will is assumed to be self-evident and most clear (as in “Brexit means Brexit”), it is just that the mischievous elites and their henchmen in Washington, or Brussels, thwart it.
This is, in my view, the defining trait of Fascism: when it is posited that ‘the people’, or the country, must prevail on the rule-of-law.

I would be tempted to say that Fascism is a declension of the tiranny of the majority, but don’t feel so sure about it. The problem is that ‘people’ is a notion as muddy as ‘people’s will’. In fact fascists, instead of considering ‘people’ as a sum of individuals endowed of political rights, often resort to a quasi-mystical ideal of ‘people’. Nazis used race, populists are oriented towards those sharing Judeo-Christian heritage and values. So, they speak for the people, but ‘people’ are their club, and no one else. Typically they aim at restricting rights to citizenship.

To me this Fascism come-back is only mildly surprising.
You argue that Fascism is a post-traumatic condition of politics, when people broken and vulnerable would give in to the dark side. I don’t exactly oppose to that, undeniably anger and frustration do play a role. Yet isn’t that only the trigger? You said that, in a way, Fascism does not create the mindset, it simply brings it to the fore. One has to wonder if Democracy, the Free World, does not have this mentality in itself, maybe not as a building block, but as a form of offspring. Historically fascist regimes have never had the form of absolutism, they replicated the form of modern democratic states with a constitution, a formal separation of powers, a government, often parliaments... As for the current situation, there is this paradox: populist present themselves as the truest democrats. If populism is degenerate democracy, one has to wonder if this degeneration could be avoided.
Populists hold that all legitimacy comes from the people. And anything on which the people has not direct control is illegitimate. ‘Taking back control’, ‘those unelected bureaucrats’...
Would you argue against that?
In their dreamworld, that unspeakable wonder that is the Italian Five Star Movement would like to promote the whole country to the status of MP, and that anything gets voted, so that nothing can take place without the consent of the people. So one can see how, in their ideal world, a state can dispense with laws, even more so with the interpretation of laws. That is absurd and clearly not feasible, yet is the principle so wrong? Are laws means or ends? And where does the state belong? Means or ends? And if “all men are created equal”, and government has to be “of the people, by the people and for the people”, can we really object?
(I deliberately avoid any discussion on a moral ground).

While I do think populists have a fascist mindset, I can well understand they see themselves as democratic. And there’s very little to do about it, you simply can’t take ‘the people’ out of the equation, not in a Democracy, not in a polity that sees the people as sovereign.
We are, finally, exposed to the consequences of the little white lie, or delusional assumption, that people’s vote is rational and competent. Yet, of all dogmas, this one is hardest to shake. It’s clearly spreading beyond politics, all authorities, all notions of hierarchy are being challenged and undermined on the basis that anyone is entitled to an 'equal' say - truth is the count, no other criterion is acceptable.
You probably fear the establishment of dictatorship, I see the autonomous herd conquering heaven.
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Re: The essence of fascism

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:18 am

It's not that the population can't be trusted, it's the nefarious use and science of mind control, which almost nobody in the population is aware of. Even "alternative" news is there by mind controllers to convince people they aren't being mind controlled.

The publishers of books, all television, and now the internet is being controlled. You'll have bums on the streets working mind control programs for decades, who do a job for the CIA and get tens of millions of dollars after their job is done.

And it goes much further than that!!!! Much, much further
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Re: The essence of fascism

Postby WW_III_ANGRY » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:36 pm

attano wrote:I share the view that is a very good post, yet I don’t think you really ‘nail it’.

WW_III_ANGRY wrote:The past 3 years of living in America have taught me a lot about the rise of fascism in the early 1930’s. The rise of fascism in the early 1930’s have taught me quite a bit about the time we are living in now in America. There are interesting and valid parallels, some of which I will present here.

Honestly, I am not an expert in this specific field, not even a good amateur at it. I rely mainly on my impressions, don’t have many facts to support my view.
That said, I share your point. This question deserves some scrutiny, viz. if we are currently being caught in the same dynamics that slightly less than 100 years ago spawned the two major fascist regimes in Europe. Here the adjective ‘same’ cannot be taken in its most literal meaning, nevertheless there are ‘forms’ that appear common to both situations.

WW_III_ANGRY wrote:The fascist mentality that rose in 1930’s was not something new though, at any time in history. It is a mentality that has deep roots that extend deep into humanity’s past. This mentality is not something that has disappeared as well, as many would want you to believe when you dare discuss the parallels of fascism in modern history. Of course, this is because they hold a mindset that ultimately will favor fascist hate filled sentiment when push comes to shove.

I find correct, as you say, to refer to a deep seated mentality that may become latent, yet not disappear. The question becomes what this ‘mentality’, or ‘mindset’, (or ‘dynamics’, or ‘forms, or whatever word is chosen) may be.
WW_III_ANGRY wrote:I have found that the essence of fascism is hatred and historically it is the hatred of leftism, liberals, and any ethnic minority groups or foreigners that are seen as a threat to the dominant culture of a nation.

I don’t think that’s false, yet I don’t think it’s the ‘essence’.
Ultimately, “hatred” is generic. Every ideology includes a “form of intense dislike” (that one way the dictionary defines “hatred”).
Politics, according to Carl Schmitt, is (also) based on creating an enemy («the specific political distinction […] is that between friend and enemy»). Socialists dislike free-marketers, as well as fascists, liberals dislike conservatives, as well as communists... and we can call that “hatred”, I see no problem in that.
I could agree more on hatred for ethnic minorities and foreigners, yet not quite.
All foreigners are not equal in hatred. There were SS divisions composed by (Aryan) foreigners. This quality ladder in foreigners is most probably assumed also by the current alt-right, though usually they don’t dwell on this and argue against mass immigration (which is not necessarily stupid). Mostly, your parallelism between Jews and Hispanics is not correct. There is one peculiar aspect you seem to miss. Your description of Jews may well apply to those in the Pale, but not to Jews in Germany. Those people were so very well integrated in the German society. There were Jew scientists, scholars, artists, politicians, bankers, entrepreneurs. The percentage of Jews in prominent positions in Germany was disproportionate with respect to their actual number in the country, and that’s kind of typical... Antisemitic jokes hinting to that still linger on even after WWII.
*That* was the problem.
The founding myth for the persecution of Jews in Hitler Germany was the stab-in-the-back. It was a conspiracy theory claiming that Germany lost WWI because of a Jews plot. Corroborated by the fabricated Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or by the fact that Marx was Jew (thou not exactly enthusiast about it, but that was irrelevant). A pervasive and obsessive propaganda made sure public opinion held Jews as the culprit of all evils afflicting Germany. Moreover, I guess social envy must have played a role. In the conditions you described, Jews publicly became hostis in urbe.

The deliberate use of conspiracy theory and forgery to back policy is typical of totalitarian regimes . And if you find similarities between this and the Trump Administration or the alt-right modus operandi, well, that’s exactly what I mean.
Anyway, this is to say that hatred is not the essence, I am not arguing that “conspirativism” is (is there a word for that? except ‘paranoia’, ‘conning’, ‘delusion’... ?). It does not specifically belong to fascist regimes, and not even to totalitarian regimes, the US used it before Trump, the Leave campaign in the UK was largely based on a probably concious use of lies.
Actually, thinking over it, “conspirativism” is required in polities still based on the rule-of-law. A dictatorship, wholly autocratic, would not need that, but, unlike what you claim, Fascism is not «totalitarian oppressive absolutism when implemented to the nth degree». Hitler was elected and fascist regimes retained a constitution. And that is why “conspirativism” is in their toolkit in order to justify the “exception”.
“Exception” is also a concept branded by Carl Scmitt and it is when the ‘normal’ law, or even the whole constitutional order is suspended and the simple will of the sovereign becomes the law. And all populists have a most clear idea on who is the sovereign and never stop repeating it: the people. Listen to the Trumps, the Bannons, the Salvinis, the Orbans, the Farages... it is always about what the ‘people’ (Americans, Italians, Hungarians,...) want. This will is assumed to be self-evident and most clear (as in “Brexit means Brexit”), it is just that the mischievous elites and their henchmen in Washington, or Brussels, thwart it.
This is, in my view, the defining trait of Fascism: when it is posited that ‘the people’, or the country, must prevail on the rule-of-law.

I would be tempted to say that Fascism is a declension of the tiranny of the majority, but don’t feel so sure about it. The problem is that ‘people’ is a notion as muddy as ‘people’s will’. In fact fascists, instead of considering ‘people’ as a sum of individuals endowed of political rights, often resort to a quasi-mystical ideal of ‘people’. Nazis used race, populists are oriented towards those sharing Judeo-Christian heritage and values. So, they speak for the people, but ‘people’ are their club, and no one else. Typically they aim at restricting rights to citizenship.

To me this Fascism come-back is only mildly surprising.
You argue that Fascism is a post-traumatic condition of politics, when people broken and vulnerable would give in to the dark side. I don’t exactly oppose to that, undeniably anger and frustration do play a role. Yet isn’t that only the trigger? You said that, in a way, Fascism does not create the mindset, it simply brings it to the fore. One has to wonder if Democracy, the Free World, does not have this mentality in itself, maybe not as a building block, but as a form of offspring. Historically fascist regimes have never had the form of absolutism, they replicated the form of modern democratic states with a constitution, a formal separation of powers, a government, often parliaments... As for the current situation, there is this paradox: populist present themselves as the truest democrats. If populism is degenerate democracy, one has to wonder if this degeneration could be avoided.
Populists hold that all legitimacy comes from the people. And anything on which the people has not direct control is illegitimate. ‘Taking back control’, ‘those unelected bureaucrats’...
Would you argue against that?
In their dreamworld, that unspeakable wonder that is the Italian Five Star Movement would like to promote the whole country to the status of MP, and that anything gets voted, so that nothing can take place without the consent of the people. So one can see how, in their ideal world, a state can dispense with laws, even more so with the interpretation of laws. That is absurd and clearly not feasible, yet is the principle so wrong? Are laws means or ends? And where does the state belong? Means or ends? And if “all men are created equal”, and government has to be “of the people, by the people and for the people”, can we really object?
(I deliberately avoid any discussion on a moral ground).

While I do think populists have a fascist mindset, I can well understand they see themselves as democratic. And there’s very little to do about it, you simply can’t take ‘the people’ out of the equation, not in a Democracy, not in a polity that sees the people as sovereign.
We are, finally, exposed to the consequences of the little white lie, or delusional assumption, that people’s vote is rational and competent. Yet, of all dogmas, this one is hardest to shake. It’s clearly spreading beyond politics, all authorities, all notions of hierarchy are being challenged and undermined on the basis that anyone is entitled to an 'equal' say - truth is the count, no other criterion is acceptable.
You probably fear the establishment of dictatorship, I see the autonomous herd conquering heaven.


Thank you for the well thought out reply. It is very much appreciated, sometimes even hard to come by in these forums.

One thing that you state here: "your parallelism between Jews and Hispanics is not correct. There is one peculiar aspect you seem to miss. Your description of Jews may well apply to those in the Pale, but not to Jews in Germany. Those people were so very well integrated in the German society." - While it is true that Jews we very well integrated in German society, they were not perceived that way by Nazi supporters, it was in fact, due to the demonization / propaganda that they bought into which made them think just the opposite, contributing to a reason to hate them.

But fascism isn't just the tyranny of the majority, tryanny is not fascism. It is an aspect of it, but totalitarianism and fascism aren't separable here. Fascism is totalitarianism, but not all totalitarianism is fascism.

You State:
"You argue that Fascism is a post-traumatic condition of politics, when people broken and vulnerable would give in to the dark side. I don’t exactly oppose to that, undeniably anger and frustration do play a role. Yet isn’t that only the trigger? You said that, in a way, Fascism does not create the mindset, it simply brings it to the fore."

- Of course no we couldn't say that its the only trigger, but hatred rooted in lying demonizing propaganda of the left is what brought it about. But why was the hatred there to begin with? A subset of the population always has this hatred. Only when they succeed in getting the rest of the country to share in their hate does it come about in the form of governmental rule.

Thanks again, there's much to discuss on this subject, much to say.
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WW_III_ANGRY
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