The Struggle For A Comprehensive Socialist Movement.

Tonight I did something interesting in that I searched all throughout the internet for a place of socialist ideals, values, and thoughts on achieving a more socialist economy for our modern world. What I found was perplexing, daunting, and downright depressing. It would seem the only socialist movements around these days are ones that are either marxist or communist, sure there are plenty of democratic socialist movements also but their rank or file is filled to the brim of international marxists as well. It seems to me now that socialism as a movement has been completely hijacked by internationalists, marxists, and communists. I could not even find a single moderate socialist website, platform, or forum out there. Anymore it would seem that both capitalists and marxists have done an entirely thorough job of dividing the entire world carving it amongst themselves predominately. As for third position socialists like myself there is scarcely very little trace of us anywhere and I suspect this is due to censorship of the internet itself. As a minority of third position socialists we certainly have our work cut out for us concerning communication, organization, and expressing our message across to people around the world.

I’ve realized tonight just how very few of us are out there and it most certainly dawns on me.

Even more interesting is the message of a lot of these so called socialist movements I was observing, they’re so focused on racial injustice, feminist issues, unlimited immigration, and pyrrhic victories of raising the minimum wage that none of their movements are even trying to illustrate in any real depth manner of socialist economics itself. I really do wonder just how many of them are controlled opposition. You know in order to have a socialist nation you need to illustrate and quantify the social mechanics of its economic structure. It’s almost embarrassing if not saddening to see what modern socialist movements have degenerated into. You would think to yourself somebody somewhere would have an illustration or deep analysis of socialist economics as an alternative to modern capitalist ones but I could not find much at all. The capitalists much as I hate saying it have completely decimated socialist movements throughout the west not because they’re smarter or better but because they have more representation in power and influence. Their ideological and economic propaganda is a well oiled machine which never sleeps that has almost completely destroyed all of their political opposition here in the west.

Any fight against the dominance of capitalism throughout the west is most certainly a high stakes uphill battle full of treachery, dominance, and risks. If a moderate socialist movement of course was to succeed not only would we have to fight against capitalists but also marxists as well that are equally organized internationally whose ideology is equally horrific. After tonight’s activities I think that I have a better understanding of the problems ahead going into the future. It certainly has made me a bit more jaded which I didn’t think was possible until now.

Bernie Sanders is a socialist. People called Obama one. They’re everywhere man.

You have, in the past…switched from one political philosophy to another more often than most people that I know. I’m not sure that the level of nuance between some of these positions amounts to more than hair splitting. The best way to be sure you’re making the world better for humanity, is to do the most that you can for the human that you have the best ability to impact…and that is yourself. Why so staunchly against capital? Has it crossed your mind that by participating in capitalism that you may have the best shot at living the best life that’s available to you under the various choices that you have before you? What is it, exactly that makes you so adamantly against the idea of capitalism?

I feel it is so interesting now that Socialism can exist in the minds of the person without a reference to Marx. But Marx on the other hand is just the dude that posited Socialism.
Maybe there will be a Socialism where its members have kicked out Marx and just follow his doctrine without knowing. But they will still need money so there’s that.

We in the US have one of the highest standards of living anywhere. In other places like South East Asia, people are mired in poverty on an unimaginable scale. And yet, they have not elected socialism, excepting North Korea.

Under a aocialist cover, manipulators can capitalize on power much more effectively, and rob people blind using overt repressive tactics no one cares to oppose, or gulag for you. Its always been the same, and this is why socialism is a nice sounding word, and that’s all it is, and ever will be.

Karl Marx didn’t invent socialism as it existed well before he came onto the scene of history, he did however pervert and corrupt it almost irreparable to which it hasn’t been able to recover since then. There was those that tried to revitalise and cleanse it of all its impurities in 1933 but as they say the rest is history.

No one is arguing communism here as far as I know and what I argue for is a socialist mixed economy that has some basic level of market forces at work but that strictly believes in collectively the public well being of its nation for all people which includes common people also.

A nation of one solidified mind, voice, and commonwealth of all it citizens to which prosperity can be enjoyed by all social classes of people relatively speaking.

All you capitalists can say what you want but it is obvious by any man or woman with any intelligence that this capitalist system is destroying and devouring itself. Sure communism was the first experiment to destroy itself and eventually capitalism also will catch up doing the same since neither system was sustainable in the long run to begin with. The destruction of capitalism is taking a bit longer than its opposite of communism but the end result will be the same.

It’s unsustainable in the long run that revolves around short term thinking of immediate profit or gratification. It revolves around military imperialism that endangers the entire planet with the proliferation of nuclear weapons. It revolves around a ridiculous assertion of infinite growth. These are just a couple of reasons why I oppose capitalism.

Bernie Sanders is a Jewish communist and Barack Obama for all his socialist rhetoric was actually a corporatist figure head with a black face.

The macro/micro distinction is important here.

Be a capitalist who wants socialist outcomes for the world.

What are some of the specific ways to achieve a comprehensive socialist movement…what would it look like more explicitly…what are its tenements?

Deleted - too presumptive and ponderous. How different things look when the ink dries.

Wendy, my only thought here is keyed in by the term ‘affordability’ some purist nations in Scandinavia are so prosperous , socially cohesive, that they can offer incredible social guarantees. But the US , a huge multiculturalism seems unlikely to foster specific kinds of social programs as sought for by progressives.

A social capitalist sounds a bit like an oxy moron, does it not? :sunglasses:

I don’t know yet to be honest, I am still trying to find that out in much contemplation.

Don’t be afraid to express yourself here.

Yes, there in lies the rub of multi racial multiculturalism.

You mean slave revolt did exist, which is true. Byt socialism was in fact a Marxian creation from the opium pipe.

Capitalists focus on creating and inventing things. Zerosum wants to steal things from capitalists which is all socialism is, a negative to subtract from the positive of capitalism.

A capitalist does not want even one regulation, so, therefore, one regulation makes the system socialist and now it’s merely a question of where to draw the line on how much regulation is needed.

Regulations are always for the good of society, not the capitalist.

Capitalism is zero regulation
Socialism is greater than zero, but less than 100% regulation
Fascism and communism are 100% regulated.

If someone wants to argue the definitions, then show me a regulation that benefits the capitalist who believes the free market resolves everything. If that can’t be done, then the definitions stand.

Now, do you want to eat food that is not inspected by the government? No? Then you’re a socialist. So, essentially we are all socialists arguing about just how socialist we ought to be. I doubt anyone is really a capitalist.

So all these arguments based on definitions of what party affiliations we have are basically for political rhetoric, in order to stretch out boring or displaced discussions, right?

No. A capitalist is someone who uses money to make money. A socialist is someone who wants to spend money to make society better. So you can invest and make money, and then build a shelter for the homeless.