Nationalize Food & Housing

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Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Gloominary » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:48 am

The food industry and housing should be nationalized.
It's dumb healthcare and education are regarded as essential and are nationalized, yet food and housing aren't.
They should all be nationalized, or if anything, food and housing should be nationalized instead of education.
Until consumers and workers are in control of what they need, they will continue to be slaves of the elite, held hostage with totally unfair and unnecessary inflation and relative stagnation of wages.
Food is a hundred times easier to produce today than it was centuries ago, yet we have to work just as hard, or harder for it, it's intolerably absurd.

There are a few ways I can think of that this could be accomplished, one is by government printing as much money as it needs debt free to purchase them, which brings me to another point: taxes and private central banks don't need to exist, they're immoral, inefficient and antiquated. Government can just print as much money as it needs to without incurring debt, it should also be able to lend money to people who need it at zero interest.

Mass production of food/housing should be nationalized, but small scale production can remain privatized.
People who work in these industries should be paid a lot more, and government should hire as many people to work in these industries as possible, maximizing employment rather than minimizing it like private corporations do, all the while charging consumers as little as possible.
These industries should also be made as green, as natural as possible, no GMO or growth hormones unless absolutely necessary.
Preferably we'll be able to produce enough food to feed everyone without altering it.
Herbicides, pesticides and unnatural fertilizers will probably still be necessary, unfortunately.

All the other essential goods and services should be nationalized too, from appliances like refrigerators and stoves, to furniture, to clothing/textiles.
Perhaps some mass production of clothing/textiles can be left private for creativity's sake, altho it will have a lot of trouble competing with state clothing/textiles, I would imagine, since it will manufacture and distribute high quality clothes at low prices.

Basically the economy should be divided into two, government should takeover what's essential, and as for what's inessential, that I'm not as concerned with, because it's, well, inessential.
either it can be left completely private, or some regulation can exist, like handing mass private production from capitalists over to workers, and/or some regulation of mass private production, to make sure prices and wages are fair, and the environment isn't paying a heavy toll for things that don't need to be produced, or worse, are damaging to the health and welfare of the people.

Perhaps three major parties can exist over the question of what to do with the private sector of the economy, but all three parties should agree that essential industries need to remain socialized.
One party will advocate for the abolishment of the private sector altogether, or at least a major reduction of it, the other will advocate for more environmentalist and syndicalist regulation of it, and the other party will argue for less regulation of it.
Last edited by Gloominary on Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:58 am

Who's gonna pay for all this shit?
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Gloominary » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:38 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:Who's gonna pay for all this shit?

Government, by printing as much money as it needs.
That may inflate prices in the private sector, but so what?
After government nationalizes all the essential industries, it'll deflate the prices of all the essential goods and services, which's all that matters.
Prices of essential goods and services are inflating more than wages are, decade by decade, year by year, the economy doesn't need one or two touch ups, it needs an overhaul, or it'll continue declining until collapsing.
This is one method of putting a stop to all this madness.
We're in a recession, now.
For working people, the economy has been receding since at least the 1980s.
What they refer to as 'recessions', are really just a sudden acceleration along an uninterrupted downward trajectory.
The economy is a total sham, a farce.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:30 am

People have also been saying that you need to invest for your future since even before then. So did you not do that? I mean...the industrial revolution is over so you can't expect to just go to work and get a good life out of it. There's a good chance that you're not going to have available to you the kind of work that's going to be worth the trouble that others will have to bear to support you. Are you like...a professional economist? I mean...forgive me but I just don't see how any of this will fly in a world where the people and the government need what private companies can provide more than the private companies need what the government and the people can provide in return.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:54 am

Artificial scarcity, look it up.
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:16 am

Yeah because if you don't do something to get humanity up off it's ass then we'll all go back to living in caves and having a life expectancy of 30 years.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:18 am

Americans are so fucking lazy on average that artificial scarcities of luxury goods wasn't enough. Now we got artificial scarcity of basic medicines. Doesn't matter to people who can afford to take a trip to Mexico, or to buy insurance. That's by design. If you can take a vacation or afford insurance then you're probably already off your ass and doing something.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:20 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:Yeah because if you don't do something to get humanity up off it's ass then we'll all go back to living in caves and having a life expectancy of 30 years.


Except peak oil and natural resources will eventually reach its zenith where all the the idealistic fantasies or ambitions in the world won't save us from that reality.

[We won't be living in caves per say but maybe log cabins with wood stoves if we're lucky.]
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:34 am

It'll be so long before that's an issue that it would be foolish to focus on that issue rather than more immediate needs. No one saw fracking coming. How long until Qatar runs out of LNG and starts fracking there? What about the Aramco IPO? You don't think the Saudi's are going to come through with their economic revitalization plan once oil hits 100 a barrel again? They can get it from the sands for next to nothing and they've got enough to last generations. Don't be confused about the price of oil as it relates to scarcity. You already understand the concept of artificial scarcity. There's enough under the ground to burn for longer than we can even envision...it's just a matter of it being worth it to get it to someone who can get it but doesn't need it for themselves. What about offshore drilling? What about the discovery off the coast of Guyana? What about when the time finally rolls around that Southern Company's Kemper plant becomes economically viable? What about the next generation of extraction technology that replaces fracking once fracking can't extract any more? Energy is, without question, the most important and the most demanded product across all of humanity. Everyone's got a political opinion until they're freezing in the cold. You'd be smart to believe that people in power know this, and plan on using that knowledge to their advantage. The smartest and most capable people on Earth will be the ones who continue to figure out how to keep the lights on....and I think they've got more tricks up their sleeves than you might realize.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:36 am

I lived in a drafty ass tiny house when I was a kid that used a cast iron, wood burning stove for heat. So we would drag in logs from outside and throw them in there. My room was a bit of a hallway between the room with the stove and the shitter. So I'd sleep on this floor next to that hot piece of cast iron to keep from being cold in the winter. It sucked man. People aren't going to go to that kind of lifestyle without trying everything else first, including genocide and nuclear war.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:42 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:I lived in a drafty ass tiny house when I was a kid that used a cast iron, wood burning stove for heat. So we would drag in logs from outside and throw them in there. My room was a bit of a hallway between the room with the stove and the shitter. So I'd sleep on this floor next to that hot piece of cast iron to keep from being cold in the winter. It sucked man. People aren't going to go to that kind of lifestyle without trying everything else first, including genocide and nuclear war.

Well, then we'll warm ourselves to nuclear reactors as we slowly die from radiation exposure bitterly clinging onto rifles. Whatever.....
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:54 am

Nah man. We put those reactors in the flyover states and make those farmers move to the cities. Then we start importing beef from Argentina and fruit from the rest of South America. It'll be fine.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:56 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:Nah man. We put those reactors in the flyover states and make those farmers move to the cities. Then we start importing beef from Argentina and fruit from the rest of South America. It'll be fine.
How are you going to move freight with peak oil and natural resources at its zenith globally again? You meant by sail boats right?
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:02 am

Put that shit on a donkey. Feed the donkey nuclear monsanto soybeans. When it shits, let the people in South America burn it's shit for heat.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:53 pm

Mr Reasonable wrote:Put that shit on a donkey. Feed the donkey nuclear monsanto soybeans. When it shits, let the people in South America burn it's shit for heat.


Wow man, that's a rocket scientist tier response right there. A genius level solution if I ever seen one. :lol:
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:17 pm

A lot of people use donkeys. They're more energy efficient than a prius.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Zero_Sum » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:21 pm

Mr Reasonable wrote:A lot of people use donkeys. They're more energy efficient than a prius.
Sounds like you have the answers for everything. :lol:
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Mr Reasonable » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:57 am

Yeah.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Zero_Sum » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:07 pm

Mr Reasonable wrote:Yeah.

Well, I look forward to your donkey dung powered future economy. :lol:

I am sure it will be great and outstanding.
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Zero_Sum » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:10 pm

Mr Reasonable wrote:It'll be so long before that's an issue that it would be foolish to focus on that issue rather than more immediate needs. No one saw fracking coming. How long until Qatar runs out of LNG and starts fracking there? What about the Aramco IPO? You don't think the Saudi's are going to come through with their economic revitalization plan once oil hits 100 a barrel again? They can get it from the sands for next to nothing and they've got enough to last generations. Don't be confused about the price of oil as it relates to scarcity. You already understand the concept of artificial scarcity. There's enough under the ground to burn for longer than we can even envision...it's just a matter of it being worth it to get it to someone who can get it but doesn't need it for themselves. What about offshore drilling? What about the discovery off the coast of Guyana? What about when the time finally rolls around that Southern Company's Kemper plant becomes economically viable? What about the next generation of extraction technology that replaces fracking once fracking can't extract any more? Energy is, without question, the most important and the most demanded product across all of humanity. Everyone's got a political opinion until they're freezing in the cold. You'd be smart to believe that people in power know this, and plan on using that knowledge to their advantage. The smartest and most capable people on Earth will be the ones who continue to figure out how to keep the lights on....and I think they've got more tricks up their sleeves than you might realize.



MIT wrote an article about three years ago where it summarized that global energy and natural resource consumption of the entire planet will hit the brick wall of reality as early as 2050.

Sure, that is still thirty two years away but happen it will.
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Gloominary » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:54 pm

Mr Reasonable wrote:People have also been saying that you need to invest for your future since even before then. So did you not do that? I mean...the industrial revolution is over so you can't expect to just go to work and get a good life out of it. There's a good chance that you're not going to have available to you the kind of work that's going to be worth the trouble that others will have to bear to support you. Are you like...a professional economist? I mean...forgive me but I just don't see how any of this will fly in a world where the people and the government need what private companies can provide more than the private companies need what the government and the people can provide in return.

Government doesn't need private companies.
Again, it can just print the money it needs to takeover and maintain food and housing.
Taxes and borrowing money from (central) banks are obsolete practices.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Gloominary » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:14 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:Artificial scarcity, look it up.

Right, we can produce food and housing many times cheaper and more efficiently than we could half a century ago, because we've replaced workers with cheaper and more efficient machines we run on coal, gas, hydroelectricity, oil, uranium and so on, fuels that give you dozens-hundreds of times more bang for your buck, but instead of these essential commodities becoming cheaper as they should have, capitalists have instead, increased, the prices, making themselves monstrously rich in the process, using all that money to have fun at our expense, and also reinvesting it in increasingly meaningless production, which's why we have so many superfluous products and waste, pollution, taking a tremendous toll on the environment, and causing us to deplete these non-renewable resources at a much faster rate than we otherwise would have.
This is why all essential goods and services must be socialized and/or syndicalized.
The inessential ones I don't care as much about, perhaps most of them will wither away and die, once we're not compelled by hunger and cold to both produce and consume them, and the remaining will naturally become fairer, because again, we won't be coerced by hunger and cold to produce and consume them.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Gloominary » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:57 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:Americans are so fucking lazy on average that artificial scarcities of luxury goods wasn't enough. Now we got artificial scarcity of basic medicines. Doesn't matter to people who can afford to take a trip to Mexico, or to buy insurance. That's by design. If you can take a vacation or afford insurance then you're probably already off your ass and doing something.

Americans are lazy, what?
Americans are some of the hardest working, greediest and most materialistic slaves on earth.
If anything, Americans need to slooow, the fuck, down.

In the mid-2000s, the Netherlands was the first country in the industrialized world where the overall average working week dropped to less than 30 hours.


See this is why modern society is stupid:

Since the 1960s, the consensus among anthropologists, historians, and sociologists has been that early hunter-gatherer societies enjoyed more leisure time than is permitted by capitalist and agrarian societies;[6][7] for instance, one camp of !Kung Bushmen was estimated to work two-and-a-half days per week, at around 6 hours a day.[8] Aggregated comparisons show that on average the working day was less than five hours.[6]
Subsequent studies in the 1970s examined the Machiguenga of the Upper Amazon and the Kayapo of northern Brazil. These studies expanded the definition of work beyond purely hunting-gathering activities, but the overall average across the hunter-gatherer societies he studied was still below 4.86 hours, while the maximum was below 8 hours.[6] Popular perception is still aligned with the old academic consensus that hunter-gatherers worked far in excess of modern humans' forty-hour week.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time

We're able to exploit the environment hundreds of times more efficiently than cave men, yet we have to work twice as hard as cave men to survive, producing hundreds of times more things than we need, by and large so the upper (middle) classes can consume them, because capitalists refuse to share the wealth.
It's just mind bogglingly insane...and that's why we're all going to die soon.
We're gong extinct...Mother Nature's botched experiment.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Gloominary » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:30 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:Yeah because if you don't do something to get humanity up off it's ass then we'll all go back to living in caves and having a life expectancy of 30 years.

The rise in life expectancy has at least been grossly exaggerated, if not downright fabricated.
It's mostly infant mortality that's been reduced, not the lifespan of people who live passed infancy that's been extended.
I'm not even sure the life expectancy for hunter-gatherer and agrarian societies was much lower than ours, I don't think there's been much documentation of their life expectancies.
As for early modern urban societies, their infant mortality rate was higher than ours, and it saw a reduction thanks to modern medicine, and/or diets becoming more nutritious and varied, like diets originally were when we were hunter-gatherers.

If we look at the work of maverick scientists like Weston Price and those who followed up on it, traditional hunter-gatherer and agrarian societies were healthier and may have lived as long or longer than us.
I don't think we've gotten healthier so much as better at keeping increasingly sicklier people alive with drugs and things.
My guess is that at some point because of mostly modern diseases like cancer and diabetes, life expectancy is going to swing the other way, and decline.
I mean how obese, irradiated and toxified can we continue to get before modern medical practices can't keep pace with our failing health, and life expectancy begins to recede?

Modern people are the fattest and sickliest people who've ever walked, escalated, driven, or wheel chaired across the face of the earth, the latest generation is continually fatter than the previous one, and this trend is showing no end in sight, thanks to contemporary tech and convenience.
If we don't take steps to reverse course, people are just going to get sicklier and sicklier, reducing life expectancy and fertility...which I suppose is a good thing in some ways, but if we decline too haphazardly and rapidly, at some point we might just collapse, and then it'll be back to square one, year zero, the dark ages, which, well, might not be such a bad thing after all I suppose, perhaps they weren't so dark after all *shrugs, maybe we're dark.
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Re: Nationalize Food & Housing

Postby Serendipper » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:44 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:Who's gonna pay for all this shit?

The robots.

FWD to 2:48:00 and listen until 2:54:00 (change setting to 1.25 speed)



Nonsense-work and busy-work has to be created to keep people working because of the popular hangup that people must suffer for money since we believe, as good protestants, that the devil finds work for idle hands to do.

So if "pride comes before a fall" implies religion, then so does the good old fashioned necessitation that people must suffer for money because the devil will come if they don't.

I've put this illustration before a couple people:

Suppose we make a deal that I come live with you if I do certain chores. We agree to the terms, then I build a machine that does all the chores and I decide to pile-up on your hammock while eating your food. Without a doubt, before long you'd be pissed that I'm laying around doing nothing to justify my existence and you'd demand that I undertake more work above and beyond what the machine is doing simply because you couldn't stomach the idea.

All these machines we have... washing machines, dish washers, microwave ovens, vacuum cleaners, cars, and we still have no time for anything because we're compelled to take on more and more work to justify our existence. An 18th century housewife might dream of how much free time she would have if she had machines doing everything, but that isn't how it turned out, is it.

Oh, if only I didn't have to lug this washboard down to the river in order to scrub clothing, I could instead go get a job at walmart helping to make shareholders rich.
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