Nationalize Food & Housing

[Serendipper]

Yeah because if you don't do something to get humanity up off it's ass then we'll all go back to living in caves and having a life expectancy of 30 years.

The rise in life expectancy has at least been grossly exaggerated, if not downright fabricated.
It's mostly infant mortality that's been reduced, not the lifespan of people who live passed infancy that's been extended.

I second that! https://paleoleap.com/why-cavemen-didnt-die-young/

If you could survive being a baby and having a baby, you were probably going to live a long time. Sexy women back then weren't the stick figures of today, but those of a shape that is likely to survive giving birth. Look at old art.

[Zero_Sum]

Artificial scarcity, look it up.

Right, we can produce food and housing many times cheaper and more efficiently than we could half a century ago, because we've replaced workers with cheaper and more efficient machines we run on coal, gas, hydroelectricity, oil, uranium and so on, fuels that give you dozens-hundreds of times more bang for your buck, but instead of these essential commodities becoming cheaper as they should have, capitalists have instead, increased, the prices, making themselves monstrously rich in the process, using all that money to have fun at our expense, and also reinvesting it in increasingly meaningless production, which's why we have so many superfluous products and waste, pollution, taking a tremendous toll on the environment, and causing us to deplete these non-renewable resources at a much faster rate than we otherwise would have.
This is why all essential goods and services must be socialized and/or syndicalized.
The inessential ones I don't care as much about, perhaps most of them will wither away and die, once we're not compelled by hunger and cold to both produce and consume them, and the remaining will naturally become fairer, because again, we won't be coerced by hunger and cold to produce and consume them.

Once again this is what happens when you let an oligarchy or aristocracy run wild without any stop measure to control them, better yet they control the financial purse strings of democracy where you can't vote your way out it. Hell, they bankroll and fund the voter counters or representatives. Once again democracy is a shit system and utterly fails.

They will keep sucking the blood and life force of any nation fattening or indulging themselves until a nation simply dies.

When they control the money supply, democracy, courts, laws, political representation, military, and police the only option left is violent revolution! There is no other recourse! There is no other options! There is no negotiating, peace, or diplomacy with these people!

Until people start understanding all of that nothing changes.

[Gloominary]

Artificial scarcity, look it up.

Right, we can produce food and housing many times cheaper and more efficiently than we could half a century ago, because we've replaced workers with cheaper and more efficient machines we run on coal, gas, hydroelectricity, oil, uranium and so on, fuels that give you dozens-hundreds of times more bang for your buck, but instead of these essential commodities becoming cheaper as they should have, capitalists have instead, increased, the prices, making themselves monstrously rich in the process, using all that money to have fun at our expense, and also reinvesting it in increasingly meaningless production, which's why we have so many superfluous products and waste, pollution, taking a tremendous toll on the environment, and causing us to deplete these non-renewable resources at a much faster rate than we otherwise would have.
This is why all essential goods and services must be socialized and/or syndicalized.
The inessential ones I don't care as much about, perhaps most of them will wither away and die, once we're not compelled by hunger and cold to both produce and consume them, and the remaining will naturally become fairer, because again, we won't be coerced by hunger and cold to produce and consume them.

Once again this is what happens when you let an oligarchy or aristocracy run wild without any stop measure to control them, better yet they control the financial purse strings of democracy where you can't vote your way out it. Hell, they bankroll and fund the voter counters or representatives. Once again democracy is a shit system and utterly fails.

They will keep sucking the blood and life force of any nation fattening or indulging themselves until a nation simply dies.

When they control the money supply, democracy, courts, laws, political representation, military, and police the only option left is violent revolution! There is no other recourse! There is no other options! There is no negotiating, peace, or diplomacy with these people!

Until people start understanding all of that nothing changes.

Perhaps democracy has to get worse before it gets better.
If it gets bad enough, newer, better and more independent parties may arise, and people might vote for them, as well as demanding more checks on voter fraud.
Nationalism is gaining a bit of traction these days, and while socialism is not, perhaps it too will gain traction in the coming years-decades as our economies continue to decline.

[Zero_Sum]

Perhaps democracy has to get worse before it gets better.
If it gets bad enough, newer, better and more independent parties may arise, and people might vote for them, as well as demanding more checks on voter fraud.
Nationalism is gaining a bit of traction these days, and while socialism is not, perhaps it too will gain traction in the coming years-decades as our economies continue to decline.

Yes, things will get better once democracy dies and is put to eternal rest.

Democracy will never get better until you remove it and those that control or own it from the social discourse. We can agree on nationalism and socialism but we'll never agree on the subject of democracy I see. That's fine, I'll make an autocrat out of you yet, we shall see who's political principles wins out in the end of this collapse, death, and resurrection of western civilization. If democracy wins in the next fifteen years I'll be the first to tell you I was wrong however I don't believe that will be the case at all going into the future.

[Mr Reasonable]

It'll be so long before that's an issue that it would be foolish to focus on that issue rather than more immediate needs. No one saw fracking coming. How long until Qatar runs out of LNG and starts fracking there? What about the Aramco IPO? You don't think the Saudi's are going to come through with their economic revitalization plan once oil hits 100 a barrel again? They can get it from the sands for next to nothing and they've got enough to last generations. Don't be confused about the price of oil as it relates to scarcity. You already understand the concept of artificial scarcity. There's enough under the ground to burn for longer than we can even envision...it's just a matter of it being worth it to get it to someone who can get it but doesn't need it for themselves. What about offshore drilling? What about the discovery off the coast of Guyana? What about when the time finally rolls around that Southern Company's Kemper plant becomes economically viable? What about the next generation of extraction technology that replaces fracking once fracking can't extract any more? Energy is, without question, the most important and the most demanded product across all of humanity. Everyone's got a political opinion until they're freezing in the cold. You'd be smart to believe that people in power know this, and plan on using that knowledge to their advantage. The smartest and most capable people on Earth will be the ones who continue to figure out how to keep the lights on....and I think they've got more tricks up their sleeves than you might realize.

MIT wrote an article about three years ago where it summarized that global energy and natural resource consumption of the entire planet will hit the brick wall of reality as early as 2050.

Sure, that is still thirty two years away but happen it will.

lol @ grad student research. Come on man. Those poor kids just wanna get published.

[Zero_Sum]

It'll be so long before that's an issue that it would be foolish to focus on that issue rather than more immediate needs. No one saw fracking coming. How long until Qatar runs out of LNG and starts fracking there? What about the Aramco IPO? You don't think the Saudi's are going to come through with their economic revitalization plan once oil hits 100 a barrel again? They can get it from the sands for next to nothing and they've got enough to last generations. Don't be confused about the price of oil as it relates to scarcity. You already understand the concept of artificial scarcity. There's enough under the ground to burn for longer than we can even envision...it's just a matter of it being worth it to get it to someone who can get it but doesn't need it for themselves. What about offshore drilling? What about the discovery off the coast of Guyana? What about when the time finally rolls around that Southern Company's Kemper plant becomes economically viable? What about the next generation of extraction technology that replaces fracking once fracking can't extract any more? Energy is, without question, the most important and the most demanded product across all of humanity. Everyone's got a political opinion until they're freezing in the cold. You'd be smart to believe that people in power know this, and plan on using that knowledge to their advantage. The smartest and most capable people on Earth will be the ones who continue to figure out how to keep the lights on....and I think they've got more tricks up their sleeves than you might realize.

MIT wrote an article about three years ago where it summarized that global energy and natural resource consumption of the entire planet will hit the brick wall of reality as early as 2050.

Sure, that is still thirty two years away but happen it will.

lol @ grad student research. Come on man. Those poor kids just wanna get published.

No, the actual research was way more than just a bunch of grad students. I can find the article if you like.

[Mr Reasonable]

Yes please.

[URUZ]

Who's gonna pay for all this shit?

The robots.

FWD to 2:48:00 and listen until 2:54:00 (change setting to 1.25 speed)



Nonsense-work and busy-work has to be created to keep people working because of the popular hangup that people must suffer for money since we believe, as good protestants, that the devil finds work for idle hands to do.

So if "pride comes before a fall" implies religion, then so does the good old fashioned necessitation that people must suffer for money because the devil will come if they don't.

I've put this illustration before a couple people:

Suppose we make a deal that I come live with you if I do certain chores. We agree to the terms, then I build a machine that does all the chores and I decide to pile-up on your hammock while eating your food. Without a doubt, before long you'd be pissed that I'm laying around doing nothing to justify my existence and you'd demand that I undertake more work above and beyond what the machine is doing simply because you couldn't stomach the idea.

All these machines we have... washing machines, dish washers, microwave ovens, vacuum cleaners, cars, and we still have no time for anything because we're compelled to take on more and more work to justify our existence. An 18th century housewife might dream of how much free time she would have if she had machines doing everything, but that isn't how it turned out, is it.

Oh, if only I didn't have to lug this washboard down to the river in order to scrub clothing, I could instead go get a job at walmart helping to make shareholders rich.

I have a lot of free time. I work 40 hours a week, outside of that I am free.

I find that people will have as much free time as they value to themselves as having. It is up to everyone how to spend their time. We all have to work somehow, but even if you work two jobs you can still spend the rest of your time however you want, or you can work to get a better job so you don't need to work two jobs anymore. Or you can resolve to being relatively poor, like me, and value your freedom and your time more than having a lot of nice things.

Anyone who posts regularly on this website here, obviously has a decent amount of free time.