New school shooting, leftist response

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:59 pm

Gloominary wrote:Maybe if people complained more, became writers, activists, and voted smarter, instead of taking antidepressants like they do in the US, maybe society would be better and there wouldn't be as many mass murderers as there are, but no, Americans bottle everything up inside, until some of them explode one day, and the rest wonder why.

Complaining is therapeutic, it's better than taking antidepressants.
Absolutely. There is something so anti-human, anti-mammalian in our drugging away of emotions. Then in practical terms, it is cutting off feedback about society. A tiny percentage react badly, OK maybe medicate them if they want. When the majority is diagnosible, it means society is fucked up. It's like giving just painkillers to people who've had, let's say, their arms broken by their employers. 'Oh, you have a disorder, here's some opium.'
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Gloominary » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:45 pm

Be a man, be an American, toughen up, don't complain to your fellow employees about your boss, don't complain to your fellow citizens about the politicians, don't demand a raise, or better working conditions, or help from your community, or help from your government, and never cheat a system that doesn't give two shits about you, instead, work even harder, have another cup of coffee, take some antidepressants, and if you just can't take anymore, we got just the solution for you: here's a gun, hell, here's 10 semi-autos and a nifty little device you can use to convert them into fully automatic assault rifles.
Kill yourself or some random folks on the street who've been fucked just as hard by the system as you have in a fit of rage, that's the American way, but never think to kill the people most responsible for your plight.
Americans need antidepressants, it's just another tool the elite use to turn us into "obedient workers" and make sure we stay that way, along with all the mindless entertainment, the dumbed down media, the cell phone, "the sneakers with lights in them", the piece of cheese.
Keep the hamsters spinning the wheels.
Keep the rats running the race in the maze with no exit.
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:08 pm

Gloominary wrote:Be a man, be an American, toughen up, don't complain to your fellow employees about your boss, don't complain to your fellow citizens about the politicians, don't demand a raise, or better working conditions, or help from your community, or help from your government, and never cheat a system that doesn't give two shits about you, instead, work even harder, have another cup of coffee, take some antidepressants, and if you just can't take anymore, we got just the solution for you: here's a gun, hell, here's 10 semi-autos and a nifty little device you can use to convert them into fully automatic assault rifles.
Kill yourself or some random folks on the street who've been fucked just as hard by the system as you have in a fit of rage, that's the American way, but never think to kill the people most responsible for your plight.
Americans need antidepressants, it's just another tool the elite use to turn us into "obedient workers" and make sure we stay that way, along with all the mindless entertainment, the dumbed down media, the cell phone, "the sneakers with lights in them", the piece of cheese.
Keep the hamsters spinning the wheels.
Keep the rats running the race in the maze with no exit.

Buy lottery tickets so that the conditions of your life seem to be on the possible cusp of changing radically at all times and less real.
Get triggered by sensationalist accounts of indviduals - famous ones with generally boring problems, not famous ones with odd, horrible problems - so that it feels like you are living.
Passively engage media as much as possible.
Hate who you are supposed to hate.
Pretend you are not affected by advertising.

And smart phones, don't even get me started.
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby URUZ » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:57 pm

Such little beings. But if you want something to actually complain about, then complain about the silly cult of victimhood leftist brainwashing that is still infecting you.

Oh boo hoo waaaa life is SO unfair and mean!! Don’t bottle it up inside, let it out!!

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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Gloominary » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:38 pm

You'll make a fine slave boy in capitalist hell.
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Silhouette » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:01 pm

UrGod wrote:Topkek

Pretty much sums up your contribution to philosophy...

UrGod wrote:The level of inequality in existence is absurd. And it’s never going to change. Learn how to deal with it. Like every other actually living sane being does.

Or keep being a silly non-being who would rather whine about existence than... exist.

As before, you completely miss the point. Zero effort to explore opposing views confirmed.

The point is that cooperation is an extremely effective strategy, learn about some game theory. Sure it's possible for inequality to grow to extreme proportions, but it isn't fixed, it can and does change. Constantly. Learn to deal with it like sane beings do. Different levels of cooperation occur everywhere in nature, and when they do, the teamwork can outperform individualistic competition easily.

At the moment we have an economic system that enables, necessitates and rewards individualistic competition, and the results are great in many ways but hardly optimal. The left aren't bound to conserve old ways that kinda worked ok in the past to varying degrees, assumed to be impossible to improve upon. That kind of narrow-mindedness is for the right. The left look to alternatives to progress (a dirty to word to those on the right). They know that cooperation is possible because they have it at their core, and the more their nature is suppressed, the more hostile and often irrational they become. Obviously there are many great examples of leftism going too far in the West, particularly in America e.g. newer waves of Feminism. The levels of oppression to which too many are resorting out of frustration is getting the most attention, of course - capitalist media cannot resist a scandal. But calling for a ban on guns every time the US has yet another mass shooting is not an example of the left going too far - other countries (Australia is a great example) banned guns and the results were so obviously effective. America just refuses to accept reason based on empirical fact for the sake of the continuously debunked ideology of Conservativism - the irrationality of the US right is so ubiquitous it's no longer newsworthy, it's just accepted.
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:59 pm

Silhouette wrote:
UrGod wrote:Topkek

Pretty much sums up your contribution to philosophy...

UrGod wrote:The level of inequality in existence is absurd. And it’s never going to change. Learn how to deal with it. Like every other actually living sane being does.

Or keep being a silly non-being who would rather whine about existence than... exist.

As before, you completely miss the point. Zero effort to explore opposing views confirmed.

The point is that cooperation is an extremely effective strategy, learn about some game theory. Sure it's possible for inequality to grow to extreme proportions, but it isn't fixed, it can and does change. Constantly. Learn to deal with it like sane beings do. Different levels of cooperation occur everywhere in nature, and when they do, the teamwork can outperform individualistic competition easily.

At the moment we have an economic system that enables, necessitates and rewards individualistic competition, and the results are great in many ways but hardly optimal. The left aren't bound to conserve old ways that kinda worked ok in the past to varying degrees, assumed to be impossible to improve upon. That kind of narrow-mindedness is for the right. The left look to alternatives to progress (a dirty to word to those on the right). They know that cooperation is possible because they have it at their core, and the more their nature is suppressed, the more hostile and often irrational they become. Obviously there are many great examples of leftism going too far in the West, particularly in America e.g. newer waves of Feminism. The levels of oppression to which too many are resorting out of frustration is getting the most attention, of course - capitalist media cannot resist a scandal. But calling for a ban on guns every time the US has yet another mass shooting is not an example of the left going too far - other countries (Australia is a great example) banned guns and the results were so obviously effective. America just refuses to accept reason based on empirical fact for the sake of the continuously debunked ideology of Conservativism - the irrationality of the US right is so ubiquitous it's no longer newsworthy, it's just accepted.


K: =D>
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby URUZ » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:26 am

hilarioussssss


Where is Hilldabeast when you need her?

Nope, dont even need her/it. plenty of hilarious nonsense here already!
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:58 am

UrGod wrote:hilarioussssss


Where is Hilldabeast when you need her?

Nope, dont even need her/it. plenty of hilarious nonsense here already!


K: and I'm sure this passes for an argument on the right.....
who needs facts or logic or even an argument when we can just
pull out magic words like, "Hilldabeast" which is for the right, is an
an entire argument......because this has nothing, absolutly nothing
to do with the argument at hand like, you know, gun control or
perhaps the shooting at the high school, or perhaps even the fact the
NRA is an terrorist organization......nope, let's make an stupid, pointless
comment about Clinton....that sure showed us lefties how to make an argument
for......... nothing....

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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Silhouette » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:13 am

UrGod wrote:hilarioussssss


Where is Hilldabeast when you need her?

Nope, dont even need her/it. plenty of hilarious nonsense here already!

HaHaaa!

Look at me just saying it's funny and needing no reasoning or anything whatsoever to back this up!

Yay, I won the argument! I'm so clever :dance:

In fact, let me meme the Donald as well, to emphasise the hilarity that I am communicating to be so apparent..................

You are literally the most vacuous vapid unthinker that I have ever had the displeasure to come across.
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Gloominary » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:59 am

UrGod wrote:Topkek

Seriously what the fuck is this shit?

Is there some new, gay republican hoodoo or voodoo cult I'm unaware of?
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Gloominary » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:47 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Be a man, be an American, toughen up, don't complain to your fellow employees about your boss, don't complain to your fellow citizens about the politicians, don't demand a raise, or better working conditions, or help from your community, or help from your government, and never cheat a system that doesn't give two shits about you, instead, work even harder, have another cup of coffee, take some antidepressants, and if you just can't take anymore, we got just the solution for you: here's a gun, hell, here's 10 semi-autos and a nifty little device you can use to convert them into fully automatic assault rifles.
Kill yourself or some random folks on the street who've been fucked just as hard by the system as you have in a fit of rage, that's the American way, but never think to kill the people most responsible for your plight.
Americans need antidepressants, it's just another tool the elite use to turn us into "obedient workers" and make sure we stay that way, along with all the mindless entertainment, the dumbed down media, the cell phone, "the sneakers with lights in them", the piece of cheese.
Keep the hamsters spinning the wheels.
Keep the rats running the race in the maze with no exit.

Buy lottery tickets so that the conditions of your life seem to be on the possible cusp of changing radically at all times and less real.
Get triggered by sensationalist accounts of indviduals - famous ones with generally boring problems, not famous ones with odd, horrible problems - so that it feels like you are living.
Passively engage media as much as possible.
Hate who you are supposed to hate.
Pretend you are not affected by advertising.

And smart phones, don't even get me started.

Right on.
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:00 am

Gloominary wrote:
UrGod wrote:Topkek

Seriously what the fuck is this shit?

Is there some new, gay republican hoodoo or voodoo cult I'm unaware of?


Conservative Muricans that read too much 4chan and view Donald Trump as the reincarnated capitalist version of Jesus Christ. They view his presidency as the 2nd coming.

These are people who cannot fathom or see the systemic problems of capitalism, the American economy, and that don't have the ability to understand the Jewish question. Basically they're your typical American neo conservative civic nationalist. They view Donald Trump as the epitome of being their libertarian messiah. For democratic Marxists Obama was their messiah, for neo conservatives and libertarians Donald Trump is theirs, it's all a pathetic cult of personality without substance much like most American politics has degenerated into.
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby URUZ » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:38 am

UrGod wrote:Allow me to sum up the leftist response to this incident:

“The FBI and the school failed to do their jobs, so now we need to take away guns from law-abiding citizens.”

Did I miss anything?
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Silhouette » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:23 pm

And he learned nothing.
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:47 pm

So it's the responsibility of the FBI to prevent school shootings, whaaaat?
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Uccisore » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:35 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
UrGod wrote:hilarioussssss


Where is Hilldabeast when you need her?

Nope, dont even need her/it. plenty of hilarious nonsense here already!


K: and I'm sure this passes for an argument on the right.....
who needs facts or logic or even an argument when we can just
pull out magic words like, "Hilldabeast" which is for the right, is an
an entire argument......because this has nothing, absolutly nothing
to do with the argument at hand like, you know, gun control or
perhaps the shooting at the high school, or perhaps even the fact the
NRA is an terrorist organization......nope, let's make an stupid, pointless
comment about Clinton....that sure showed us lefties how to make an argument
for......... nothing....

Kropotkin


Should we be taking the above as what passes for an argument on the left?
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby URUZ » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:37 am

I wasn’t aware the left had any arguments. That’s news to me.
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Uccisore » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:47 am

Silhouette wrote:At the moment we have an economic system that enables, necessitates and rewards individualistic competition, and the results are great in many ways but hardly optimal. The left aren't bound to conserve old ways that kinda worked ok in the past to varying degrees, assumed to be impossible to improve upon.


Unless that old way happens to be socialism and then suddenly it's the leftist trotting out texts and ideas from the 19th Century and swearing by them.

I realize the "We're the ideology of hip, new ideas" sloganizing has worked well for the left, but it hasn't actually been true re: economics and justice since before your grandfather was born. I mean, that's why all the rich old billionaires are mostly on your side the of aisle now; they might be *old* but they aren't so fucking old that socialism is 'new fangled' even to them.

Obviously there are many great examples of leftism going too far in the West, particularly in America e.g. newer waves of Feminism.


Particularly in America? Whatever you want to say about the 'newer waves of Feminism' in the United States, they are even worse in places like the UK, Germany, and Sweden.

But calling for a ban on guns every time the US has yet another mass shooting is not an example of the left going too far other countries (Australia is a great example) banned guns and the results were so obviously effective.


So your revolutionary, bold idea is "Let's not allow the peasants to arm themselves"? That's the ground breaking, forward-thinking idea that only the progressive mind can conceive of that's supposed to be blowing my dumb cracker mind?
America just refuses to accept reason based on empirical fact for the sake of the continuously debunked ideology of Conservativism -


If you had empirical fact on your side, one would think you would have relied on that in your screed instead of the "liberals so smart, conservatives so dumb" bitching. Perhaps the reason why so many conservatives don't adopt your ideas is that -like you- liberals all to often forget to include all that amazing empirical data you totally have on your side when you're arguing for your points.

the irrationality of the US right is so ubiquitous it's no longer newsworthy, it's just accepted.


The inherent superiority of the leftist has always been just accepted.
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Uccisore » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:49 am

UrGod wrote:I wasn’t aware the left had any arguments. That’s news to me.


Of course they do. They have "It's [current year]". They have "If you disagree, you are a [insult of the week]." And they have the all-powerful "One time in history we changed something and it worked out well, and I am advocating we change something, therefore it will work out."
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby URUZ » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:18 am

Uccisore wrote:
UrGod wrote:I wasn’t aware the left had any arguments. That’s news to me.


Of course they do. They have "It's [current year]". They have "If you disagree, you are a [insult of the week]." And they have the all-powerful "One time in history we changed something and it worked out well, and I am advocating we change something, therefore it will work out."


Image

Well those are not actually arguments, but they’re hilarious nonetheless.
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Gloominary » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:29 am

Conservative Muricans that read too much 4chan and view Donald Trump as the reincarnated capitalist version of Jesus Christ. They view his presidency as the 2nd coming.

These are people who cannot fathom or see the systemic problems of capitalism, the American economy, and that don't have the ability to understand the Jewish question. Basically they're your typical American neo conservative civic nationalist. They view Donald Trump as the epitome of being their libertarian messiah. For democratic Marxists Obama was their messiah, for neo conservatives and libertarians Donald Trump is theirs, it's all a pathetic cult of personality without substance much like most American politics has degenerated into.

Yea, couldn't agree more.
It's policy that matters, not personality.
There's no democrats or republicans, just republicrats.
They agree on most things, and where they disagree, it's slight.
One or the other, it matters not, the rich get richer, and so does Israel, at the expense of the poor and nature.
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby URUZ » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:34 am

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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Gloominary » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:59 pm

The difference between democrats and republicans is largely one of personality, not policy.
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Re: New school shooting, leftist response

Postby Silhouette » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:10 pm

UrGod wrote:I wasn’t aware the left had any arguments. That’s news to me.

Exactly, you aren't aware.

Everything you come out with, whether it's more off-the-cuff remarks or some caricatured youtube video or meme, just further proves what I've been saying about you. The fact that you're so brazenly trotting out all of your gibberish has Dunning-Kruger written all over it, it's an embarrassment.

You will get nowhere, I repeat: nowhere, if you keep closing your mind and ears to opposing viewpoints and anything approaching a mindset that will allow you to even begin to objectively analyse and explore any rationale that isn't parallel to your own. There's a reason why newly cliché psych labeling like "the Dunning-Kruger effect" and "cognitive dissonance" is everywhere now, it's because human minds are generally by default averse to that which challenges one's identity such that one risks a feeling of loss if it turns out that their worldview isn't 100% consistent and infallible - which it never is. We're not built for objective argument (for good reason, mind you), but we can be trained to be better at it. It's abundantly clear that you missed the sessions though. The less trained you are, the more vulnerable your identity, the more you will resort to lower methods to maintain your fragile ego, the more you will fight back with irrationality and cherry picked evidence, instantly forgetting all the rest. If you want to get somewhere you will step out of the shallow-end and away from its easy dopamine hits and risk drowning. Probably not for everyone, but it's just frustrating to hear someone acting as and claiming authority when they so clearly have nothing to back it up.

I will say it here, just to give you inspiration (or so I naively hope): I am in the process of moving away from Leftist thought.

I've based my life, ever since I first noticed that there was something wrong with how things were at a very early age, on solving humanity's problems. I've been trying to get into the conservative rationale as hard as I can over the past few years, just to see if I could find reason to do so, and countless times I was not persuaded. It's taken just a couple of concepts (in game theory and ethology) to finally understand that there is actually something valid to their thinking, but I finally did it and reached a tipping point. The partial opportunist at this point will claim they are not surprised that I am finally seeing the light, but they miss the point - I still have all the countless and strong arguments that I have developed in favour of the left, I am simply becoming more rounded and ridding myself of bias. I remember reading in Nietzsche, I think it was Twilight of the Idols, a good summation about intellectual thought: that it is capable of seriously holding a set of beliefs without fundamentally investing in them, and for all I know, I will fall into conforming with what is ambiguously attributed to Churchill's words about being a liberal while still young because I have a heart, and conservative by the time I am old because I have a brain. It will be embarrassing for me if I do, but I am after truth, not ego - as I wish everyone else was. The irony is that if everyone else was, we could actually achieve Leftist "utopia".

Anyway, it is fucking hard to go down this route, I just wish the hordes of people out there, of which you are one, would even consider beginning it. Think honestly, if you are so capable: what will it take for you to do so too?

And no, I am not claiming that all leftists do the above - not at all. All it takes is enough of those who don't on one side, and enough on the other, for both sides to devolve into arguing about the loudest and most flawed of the opposition being so obviously wrong, thereby affirming their own side, increasing polarisation even further and decreasing progress even further. I am advocating breaking the cycle and re-discovering the enlightened middle-ground, not exclusively of course, but the whole thing is so out of balance, all the good points are being forgotten in favour of partisan point-scoring.

Uccisore wrote:Should we be taking the above as what passes for an argument on the left?

They have "It's [current year]". They have "If you disagree, you are a [insult of the week]." And they have the all-powerful "One time in history we changed something and it worked out well, and I am advocating we change something, therefore it will work out."

The above "argument" to which you were referring was simply exposing how the "arguments" of the opening poster could just as easily be reversed with just as much validity (or lack thereof). It was a jibe to expose just how ridiculous he is being. It could be taken as an argument for the left just as much as the opening poster of this thread could be said to be representative of offering arguments for the right.

An example of the left resorting to just as low and catchy poking strategies would be the kind that you brought up. Any implication that this is the extent of leftist argument, or even typical of it as a whole is just plain dishonesty. It might be typical of the kind of low, point scoring tactics that we hear most about because they are catchy and therefore newsworthy (nothing to be proud of), but we need to discern between genuine arguments on both sides - not quibble over the periphery.

Uccisore wrote:Unless that old way happens to be socialism and then suddenly it's the leftist trotting out texts and ideas from the 19th Century and swearing by them.

I realize the "We're the ideology of hip, new ideas" sloganizing has worked well for the left, but it hasn't actually been true re: economics and justice since before your grandfather was born. I mean, that's why all the rich old billionaires are mostly on your side the of aisle now; they might be *old* but they aren't so fucking old that socialism is 'new fangled' even to them.

I am aware that Socialism has been attempted in the past, even before the lives of the oldest living people began, but it can hardly have ever been said to be the old way that things used to be. Things have been predominantly capitalist for a long time now, even before Socialism really took off as a counter to the failures of said Capitalism. Of course it was rarely if ever some kind of "pure" Capitalism, and there have been old attempts to counter Aristocracy that one might try to pass off as Socialism in spirit, but Capitalism has been more and more predominant since Feudal times because it has worked better than the alternatives that we have tried so far in the environment of the time. There have always been attempts to overthrow oppressive systems throughout history, and even in the rest of the animal kingdom, and just because the form it takes as "Socialism" hasn't stuck so far, this constant conflict over power is never going to stop. Every now and then it will be justified enough to catch on, until a newer incarnation of established oppression sets in. Does that mean that Socialism is inevitably going to work? Not necessarily, but the attempts to renew the balance of power will keep going until something does work, whether or not it is like or referred to as Socialism.

The problem we now have is that Capitalism is inevitably resolving into an established balance of power, more and more visibly so. So far it obviously hasn't been visible enough to stoke a successful revolution, and it's clear to see why - in the decades before the near-global recession that we had a decade ago, there continued to be amazing inventions and bubbles that sustained things and kept wealth on the rise for even the poorest. Since then, we're waiting for something new to sustain Capitalism. We're set for AI to soon take over, and this could go either way. It could be the new bubble that we've been waiting for, or more likely (I think), it will strain our ability to push the unskilled into even more meaningless work just for the sake of conserving our tradition of "you have to work to deserve a living" - when a robot could do it better. It's long been prophesied that humans won't have to work anymore with all the new technology that we've been creating since the industrial revolution, but so far we've managed to maneuver ourselves into a workable corner - but I think (or hope) that this process has a limit. Whether or not you call it Socialism that replaces current ways if things happen in the way I think more likely, these changes are on their way.

Uccisore wrote:Particularly in America? Whatever you want to say about the 'newer waves of Feminism' in the United States, they are even worse in places like the UK, Germany, and Sweden.

I'm European and I speak with people from other European countries and hear of the odd instance of newer waves of Feminism here, but never actually see it. I listen to a lot of American social commentary and although I've not visited there for a long time it sounds like it's legitimately taking over the universities and politics. Maybe it's just the hysteria of the people I'm watching, and it's just as mild and in the background as it is over here, I don't know for sure. It just seems to me that it's much worse in the US.

Uccisore wrote:So your revolutionary, bold idea is "Let's not allow the peasants to arm themselves"? That's the ground breaking, forward-thinking idea that only the progressive mind can conceive of that's supposed to be blowing my dumb cracker mind?

What is the point of allowing "the peasants" to arm themselves? As if they would stand a chance versus a modern corrupt government, with the weapons they have now. Drones are smaller, nukes are bigger, it's all unmanned, and that doesn't even cover the biological weapons at their disposal and the kind of training that they give the army that makes the common citizen able to cope with the horror of actually taking a life. What... you gonna shoot the water supply now? It's not just muskets anymore like it was at the time that the 2nd Amendment was amended so.

All people do now is use them on each other when they're mentally unstable, which for some reason most people seem to be nowadays, or they accidentally use them on each other because accidents happen with devastating firepower just as much as they do with less dangerous weapons. Either you're going to be safe and responsible with firearms and therefore not be able to access them in time if you ever need them, or you're going to keep them handy and able for misuse and abuse. Either way, much of the rest of the world has banned them and they don't have their kids massacred every once in a while. Maybe it's a kind of Darwinism, I dunno.
Last edited by Silhouette on Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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