Income Disparity

For discussions of culture, politics, economics, sociology, law, business and any other topic that falls under the social science remit.

Moderator: Uccisore

Re: Income Disparity

Postby phyllo » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:00 pm

A good company in my view does everything right
That doesn't mean anything because "everything" and "right" are so nebulous.

There will always be someone who says that a company is doing something wrong.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10010
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Income Disparity

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:02 pm

Are you referring to collateral damage or a bitch/bastard who simply likes to complain?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6203
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Income Disparity

Postby phyllo » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:18 pm

No matter how morally responsible or ecologically responsible or how much a company gives back to the community, there will be some wienie who says that it's not enough. And he actually believes that he's right.

Such is life.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10010
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Income Disparity

Postby tentative » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:54 pm

phyllo wrote:
What is a good company? What is a bad company? And how should bad companies be penalized?
A good company makes a profit. A bad company loses money. Bad companies are penalized by going out of business.

But you want a good company to do something good for people. Right?

That's the thing ... a profitable company may be making people sick. It may be destroying the general welfare of a society.

'Good' can mean many things to many people.


There is no such thing as a "good" company in todays market - and it is unlikely that there ever will be. The general welfare? That is the last thing on the list to be considered. So-called good companies are compelled not only to make a profit, but to meet quarterly wall street predictions of that profit. A company may be doing quite well, but should they miss the projected earnings in any quarter, their stock loses value as investors scramble to find "better" earnings stocks. Moreover, there is no retirement fund program out there that isn't tied into the market.

To ask or tell any company to share more of its profits with employees sounds warm and fuzzy, but almost guarantees that investors will dump that companys stock in one day or less. If all or most companies were to be forced into such an arrangement, the whole stock market would collapse - along with any and all retirement fund programs.

The stock market, even with all the scams and general BS associated, are a reflection of the general economy and wealthy and poor alike are vulnerable to any sudden shift. We saw this in the last crash where millions of people watched their retirement monies get flushed down the toilet. Is income disparity solvable by BIG changes? Popping the balloon sounds like satisfying fun, but is disaster for all. Any plausible reversible scheme means finding ways to let the air out of the balloon slowly.

When defining "good", it's a good idea to think through the consequences...
IGAYRCCFYVM
Sorry, arguing with the ignorant is like trying to wrestle with a jellyfish. No matter how many tentacles you cut off there are always more, and there isn't even a brain to stun. - Maia

I don't take know for an answer.
tentative
.
 
Posts: 12360
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: Income Disparity

Postby phyllo » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:04 pm

It has little to do with the stock market. Most companies are not listed on the stock market. Most are privately held. The general definition of a "good company" is that it makes a profit.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10010
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Income Disparity

Postby tentative » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:50 pm

phyllo wrote:It has little to do with the stock market. Most companies are not listed on the stock market. Most are privately held. The general definition of a "good company" is that it makes a profit.


It has everything to do with the stock market.

Consider: In the crash the auto industry was going tits up. The biggies were going to flush a big chunk of change down the toilet. But that was the tip of the iceberg. There were thousands of small companies supplying parts to the biggies that would have been flushed as well. They weren't listed on the stock market, but they were damn well tied to it. Think about all the small mom and pop businesses that catered to those parts suppliers. They would have been affected as well. It's dominoes and if a fortune 500 business goes down, it takes a shitload of those small businesses with them.

The point I'm trying to make is that it is all interconnected and whatever the "good" fix, you need to also see who is going to be hurt - including the guy running the hotdog cart.
IGAYRCCFYVM
Sorry, arguing with the ignorant is like trying to wrestle with a jellyfish. No matter how many tentacles you cut off there are always more, and there isn't even a brain to stun. - Maia

I don't take know for an answer.
tentative
.
 
Posts: 12360
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: Income Disparity

Postby phyllo » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:53 pm

It has everything to do with the stock market.
Say no more.

Really.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10010
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Income Disparity

Postby Faust » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:56 pm

So here's what i meant. In the context of Buffet, I was talking about stock companies. Although Buffet may buy privately held or closely held companies as well. I meant pretty much what phyllo said - healthy companies. With no regard to how they treat their employees. In this way, buffet helps the economy, although he may not help society as a whole. or he might.

But back to income disparity. By some measures - and I have not done the math myself, you need to earn roughly $32,000 per year to be in the top one percent income in the world.

Yeah, the top one percent in the world. Adjusted for the cost of living.

Now, i think that's a bit misleading but the point stands. Americans do not walk miles for enough food and firewood to stay alive. Poor people in america own more than two shirts and a goat.

That's not to say we can't do better. But income disparity is not the real problem. If i could convince you that it's possible that no worker in this country earn less than 60K but only if the income of the top ten percent doubles, would this be bad? I'm not going to try to convince you, but what about it?

The fact is that there will always be poor people because poverty is measured against wealth. Not against failure to subsist.

Some of the one percent are entertainers, including athletes. Some are doctors. Some are entrepreneurs. Is this a problem?
User avatar
Faust
Unrequited Lover of Wisdom
 
Posts: 16726
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 6:47 pm

Re: Income Disparity

Postby phyllo » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:03 am

A company can be profitable by painting radon paint on watches and aircraft instruments. The women doing the painting die of cancer. The people who repair the instruments die of cancer. Disposal of all that radioactive stuff is a dangerous and complicated problem.

The company is 'good' because it generated a profit.

Asbestos. Want to talk about that?

Good company does not mean good for everyone.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10010
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: Income Disparity

Postby Mr Reasonable » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:34 am

WendyDarling wrote:Warren Buffet doesn't support the economy, the economy, its resources (workers and the Earth's natural resources) support him.



I think you're dramatically undervaluing financial discipline and the ability to organize in a speculative environment.

Like a person who thinks a doctor is just a dumbass who only writes prescriptions and is therefore overpaid. You don't seem to have a clue as to the complexity of what funds like Berkshire Hathaway do.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/
User avatar
Mr Reasonable
resident contrarian
 
Posts: 24645
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 am
Location: pimping a hole straight through the stratosphere itself

Previous

Return to Society, Government, and Economics



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users