Free Government

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Free Government

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:18 pm

A free government is free to do whatever it wants.

As US citizens, we have not regulated our government properly with our own set of checks and balances. We have turned a blind eye on our Congress, giving them a golden pass to perpetuate corruption, to line their pockets by fulfilling corporate agendas, not agendas designed by the citizens to ensure the well-being of our country's people in both domestic and foreign affairs.

It's time to drain the swamp!
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Free Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:09 pm

"Free Government" is an oxymoron because "Government" means to pass and enforce laws, which are, un-free.

Government restricts freedom.

Liberalism (pro-freedom), by definition, is anti-government.
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Re: Free Government

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:15 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:"Free Government" is an oxymoron because "Government" means to pass and enforce laws, which are, un-free.

Government restricts freedom.

Liberalism (pro-freedom), by definition, is anti-government.


Definition of government~
1.the political direction and control exercised over the actions of the members, citizens, or inhabitants of communities, societies, and states; direction of the affairs of a state, community, etc.; political administration:
Government is necessary to the existence of civilized society.
2.
the form or system of rule by which a state, community, etc., is governed:
monarchical government; episcopal government.
3.
the governing body of persons in a state, community, etc.; administration.
4.
a branch or service of the supreme authority of a state or nation, taken as representing the whole:
a dam built by the government.
5.
the particular group of persons forming the cabinet at any given time:
The prime minister has formed a new government.
the parliament along with the cabinet:
The government has fallen.
6.
direction; control; management; rule:
the government of one's conduct.
7.
a district governed; province.
Or protects freedoms. Classical liberalism was pro-freedom, but not today's liberal lefties.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Free Government

Postby Serendipper » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:29 pm

WendyDarling wrote:A free government is free to do whatever it wants.

As US citizens, we have not regulated our government properly with our own set of checks and balances. We have turned a blind eye on our Congress, giving them a golden pass to perpetuate corruption, to line their pockets by fulfilling corporate agendas, not agendas designed by the citizens to ensure the well-being of our country's people in both domestic and foreign affairs.

It's time to drain the swamp!

Education of the constituency is the only way to control government. The people get the government they deserve.
"Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats." Howard Aiken
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Re: Free Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:10 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Or protects freedoms.

No...a government cannot "protect" freedom, it can only suppress freedom. To be free, is to have no government at all.


WendyDarling wrote:Classical liberalism was pro-freedom, but not today's liberal lefties.

Liberalism merged with Leftism after the 1970s and "counter-culture" movements. The SJWs found willing allies among the "classical liberals". Both have the same goal in mind, "you can do whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt anybody, or, as long as everybody consents". Thus they became buddy-buddy and classical liberals are now forced into an alliance with social degenerates, hedonists, and queers/weirdos. The classical liberals shot themselves in the feet.

Thus many classical liberals are being forced into the "alt-right" or "alt-left", as means to save face and dissociate with perversions such as homosexuality and "LGTBQ". The modern argument about gender-pronouns exemplifies what I'm talking about. Western society is running into a brick wall with the limit of "as long as it doesn't hurt anybody". Now SJWs claim that "hurting somebody's feelings" is the same as "as long as it doesn't hurt anybody". Therefore, ideological agendas are now targeted by liberal-leftists, and must compromise the value of "Free Speech" so that liberal-leftists can emote, and shut opposition down, through censorship.

The liberal-left is reaching the end, of their limits. I believe that the center, most people, the average, are becoming fed-up with them.

Modern people reduce it all down to ANTIFA (leftism) versus Neo-Nazis (rightism). However this precludes the topic of racial purity versus miscegenation, which is also implied by either ideology.


If you prefer your own race, your own kin, your family, to reproduce with your own kind first, then you are by definition a "Rightist" opposed to somebody who does not, who would then be considered a "Leftist".
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Re: Free Government

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:48 pm

No...a government cannot "protect" freedom, it can only suppress freedom. To be free, is to have no government at all.

You deny the US Constitution and Bill of Rights? Please =; Most governments do not protect freedoms but ours tries and does for the most part.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Free Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:51 pm

Absolute freedom is to overturn all laws, all government, all preconceived notions. Completely free, unburdened, debtless, and even approaching freedom from death, to live fully is to live freely. Subject to no law whatsoever.
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Re: Free Government

Postby UrGod » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:35 pm

Urwrong, you are wrong. Anarchy is not a state of freedom, but a state of its absence. This is about balance between private and public justice, as Wendy said or implied somewhere else. Absolute private (anarchy) or absolute public (communism, statism) are both absurd extremes that will never work.
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Re: Free Government

Postby Serendipper » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:53 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:No...a government cannot "protect" freedom, it can only suppress freedom. To be free, is to have no government at all.

One would think, but after some thought you're apt to find that one 800lb gorilla is the same as another.

How do you reckon rulers came to power? Was it by virtue of regulation or by taking advantage of a lawless environment? If there are no laws, then I'll get some buds together and oppress you. What could you do? Call the cops? Invariably, someone will rise to power and make new rules because if you have no rules, someone will have to establish a government to enforce the anarchy and that's just silly.

Authoritarian government and anarchy are the same thing. The middle way is the best way. Only a gov can guarantee an equal playing field just like a referee is sure no one cheats in a game or fight.

Show me something (except natural selection) that can exist unmanaged:

- A garden left to nature will be a disaster. Besides, why interrupt the free market competition between plants? Let trees grow tall and shade your garden. Let the weeds take over. Let the strongest survive instead of governing it.

- Do you have pets? Do you kill the worms and fleas? Why? Let the free market dictate who survives. What right do you have to kill the fleas and worms?

- Do you vaccinate your kids? Why do that? Let the free market figure it out.

People who carryon with the freemarket mantra are the pinnacle of hypocrisy because they never practice what they preach and if they did, they would die.

Now I'm not advocating total control because no one should overmanage or micromanage, but there must be a middle way between the two extremes.
___________________________________________________________________

Stefan Molyneux is an anarchist who adheres to the nonaggression principle (NAP) and therefore says taxation is "guys with guns" stealing his money, but what he fails to see is coercing someone into servitude in the capitalistic system is itself aggressive.

I used to be an employer and I know how this works: Say I can do a job and make $50/hr all by myself. Then I hire a guy at $10/hr who then makes me an extra $50 - $10 = $40 per hour. Now I'm making $90 compared to his $10. You see, no one in their right mind would hire someone who costs them money, but the reason to hire someone is to make me money. In other words, his existence is to enrich my existence because otherwise I have no incentive to hire him. How is it coercive? Well, I'm taking advantage of the fact that he has nowhere to make more than $10/hr and his alternative is to make less or go starve. That is what we call "providing a service to the community" and I expect to be compensated unjustly for that service.

So, to right the wrong, the tax man shows up to redistribute the money back to the guy who should have had a bigger cut in the first place and that is what Stefan calls "theft" and violation of the NAP.
__________________________________________________________________

Let's look at the situation from another angle:

Suppose we have a gold standard with a fixed money supply. Now, when one more person is born, who gives up their gold for that new person? If we dig it up, then the money supply isn't fixed. I mean, if we can jut dig gold up whenever we need it, then it's no different than printing. Clearly, there has to be an expanding money supply.

I've already shown how money flows uphill in the chain of employment and without printing new money to replace what flows uphill as the rich get richer off the backs of the workers, the bottom would run out. In fact, running out of money was the cause of the American Revolution:

https://archive.org/stream/TheMoneyMast ... s_djvu.txt

For those who believe that a gold standard is the answer for America's current monetary problems, look what happened to
America after the Currency Act of 1764 was passed. Writing in his autobiography, Franklin said:

"In one year, the conditions were so reversed that the era of prosperity ended, and a depression set in, to such an extent that
the streets of the Colonies were filled with unemployed."


Franklin claims that this was even the basic cause for the American Revolution. As Franklin put it in his autobiography:

"The Colonies would gladly have borne the little tax on tea and other matters had it not been that England took away from the
Colonies their money, which created unemployment and dissatisfaction."


Ben Franklin claimed that this was the real cause of the American Revolution. Most of the founding
fathers realized the potential dangers of banking, and feared bankers' accumulation of wealth and power. Jefferson put it this
way:

"I sincerely believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have
raised up a money aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks
and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs. "

Benjamin Franklin was a big supporter of the colonies printing their own money. In 1757, Franklin was sent to London to fight
for colonial paper money. He ended up staying for the next 18 years - nearly until the start of the American Revolution.
During this period, ignoring Parliament, more American colonies began to issue their own money.

Called Colonial Scrip, the endeavor was successful, with notable exceptions. It provided a reliable medium of exchange, and it
also helped to provide a feeling of unity between the colonies. Remember, most Colonial Scrip was just paper money - debt-
free money - printed in the public interest and not really backed by gold or silver coin. In other words, it was a fiat currency.

Officials of the Bank of England asked Franklin how he would account for the new-found prosperity of the colonies. Without
hesitation he replied:

"That is simple. In the colonies we issue our own money. It is called Colonial Scrip. We issue it in proper proportion to the
demands of trade and industry to make the products pass easily from the producers to the consumers
... In this manner,
creating for ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power, and we have no interest to pay to no one."

__________________________________________________________________

The purpose of printing money is to replenish the money to the bottom as the rich get richer. The purpose of taxation is to redistribute the money so that printing isn't so necessary. Taxation is NOT to fund the government.

G. Edward Griffin wrote the book "The creature from Jekyll Island" which is the history of the Fed.

Start at 18:00 here:



Therefore, taxation is not theft and it is necessary for the health of the economy and without the redistributive effects of taxation then revolt would brew, suicides ensue as hopelessness sets in, drug use and crime would soar.

So now, look around, what do we have? Trump cutting taxes which are already low and too flat, the fed raising rates (stopping printing) and we have drug use at epidemic levels and people are taking to the streets. Look at Chicago and Baltimore. The prosperity started with FDR and ended with Reagan and we continue to slide into greater and greater divisions of wealth and all that has sustained us so far is the ever increasing amounts of debt that the middle class has taken-on to replace the wealth that has flowed uphill. Trickle-down is not enough to offset the deluge going up.

Conservatives need to wake up!

Long post, but figured may as well get it out there. I'll try to upload some charts to further illustrate the situation.
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Re: Free Government

Postby Serendipper » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:27 am

Image

When taxes were high in the 40s to 60s, money creation was low. When taxes were cut in the 60s and so on, money creation soared.

This is a log chart:

Image

I had to resize pics by 50% to fit the site, so I hope everyone can read them.



Thought experiment: Is there anything that one human can do 400X better than another human? Can someone be 400X smarter? Even if the dumbest guy had an iq of 1, a 400 iq is off the chart. Can someone lift 400X more weight? 1000lb is the record bench press, so the weakest person would have to only bench 2.5lbs for a 400X differential. What could possibly justify someone making 400X more money than the AVERAGE person? Being 400X more sleazy I reckon.
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Re: Free Government

Postby James S Saint » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:03 am

WendyDarling wrote:A free government is free to do whatever it wants.

As US citizens, we have not regulated our government properly with our own set of checks and balances. We have turned a blind eye on our Congress, giving them a golden pass to perpetuate corruption, to line their pockets by fulfilling corporate agendas, not agendas designed by the citizens to ensure the well-being of our country's people in both domestic and foreign affairs.

It's time to drain the swamp!

Yep.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
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The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
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It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

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Re: Free Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:51 am

Void_X_Zero wrote:Urwrong, you are wrong. Anarchy is not a state of freedom, but a state of its absence. This is about balance between private and public justice, as Wendy said or implied somewhere else. Absolute private (anarchy) or absolute public (communism, statism) are both absurd extremes that will never work.

I'm right.

I didn't say "no government" is realistic or even a decent goal. I'm merely saying that it is the definition of 'freedom'. Government is by default, law and oppression of freedom.
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Re: Free Government

Postby UrGod » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:50 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Void_X_Zero wrote:Urwrong, you are wrong. Anarchy is not a state of freedom, but a state of its absence. This is about balance between private and public justice, as Wendy said or implied somewhere else. Absolute private (anarchy) or absolute public (communism, statism) are both absurd extremes that will never work.

I'm right.

I didn't say "no government" is realistic or even a decent goal. I'm merely saying that it is the definition of 'freedom'. Government is by default, law and oppression of freedom.


No. Some laws oppress freedoms, other laws enhance freedoms.
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Re: Free Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:34 pm

Void_X_Zero wrote:other laws enhance freedoms.

False, that is a contradiction.

Laws only limit freedom. Liberal-leftists are backward thinkers. You cannot "guarantee freedom" by passing laws. You can only guarantee freedom by abolishing laws.
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Re: Free Government

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:01 pm

I agree with Void. Some laws preserve freedom from tyranny. I read the dictionary definition of anarchy ...the absence of government...or a state of lawlessness (which to me means not following laws, not that laws don't or shouldn't exist). Government means authoritative direction/control of public policy in a political unit.

No freedom is guaranteed by actually practicing anarchy.

Through governance, the government places laws against itself (not the people), preserving individual freedoms...guaranteeing such freedoms where they are not protected by anarchy. Another anarchist can easily rob you of your too short lived freedom, while an organized government would act to protect it, back you up. Never trust an anarchist! :evilfun: :-" Or a communist!
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Free Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:09 pm

You and Void are both wrong. You cannot "protect freedom" with law. You can only reduce freedom.

That's like saying "The only rule is, no rules". It's an oxymoron, an obvious contradiction. Don't be so simplistic.
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Re: Free Government

Postby Serendipper » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:29 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:You cannot "protect freedom" with law. You can only reduce freedom.

Likewise you'd need a government to enforce the anarchy. Someone has to be sure that no one creates any laws.

That's like saying "The only rule is, no rules". It's an oxymoron, an obvious contradiction. Don't be so simplistic.

Isn't that what you're saying?

You haven't given this much thought and you've latched onto a play on words. Freedom is not being free from law, but free from oppression. You have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Laws are what protect those rights of freedom. Without law, you would not be free at all.
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Re: Free Government

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:45 pm

Serendipper wrote:
Urwrongx1000 wrote:You cannot "protect freedom" with law. You can only reduce freedom.

Likewise you'd need a government to enforce the anarchy. Someone has to be sure that no one creates any laws.

That's like saying "The only rule is, no rules". It's an oxymoron, an obvious contradiction. Don't be so simplistic.

Isn't that what you're saying?

You haven't given this much thought and you've latched onto a play on words. Freedom is not being free from law, but free from oppression. You have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Laws are what protect those rights of freedom. Without law, you would not be free at all.

Isn't that what I already said in a mess of words? You did say it better but I planted that seed in your mind, Serendipper...just saying. :evilfun: :lol:
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Free Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:56 pm

No...you and Void are "playing on words".

What I said is as simple as it gets. Freedom = NO LAWS = NO GOVERNMENT WHATSOEVER. If you want freedom in life, you have to go 'outside' human civilization, or, overthrow the government. There are no "laws that protect freedom". That's a backward liberal-leftist fallacy. It's illogical, a contradiction.
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Re: Free Government

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:00 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:No...you and Void are "playing on words".

What I said is as simple as it gets. Freedom = NO LAWS = NO GOVERNMENT WHATSOEVER. If you want freedom in life, you have to go 'outside' human civilization, or, overthrow the government. There are no "laws that protect freedom". That's a backward liberal-leftist fallacy. It's illogical, a contradiction.

Freedom is not being free from law, but free from oppression. You have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Laws are what protect those rights of freedom. Without law, you would not be free at all.

I agree with Serendipper too. Ur so wrong x 1,000,000

Anarchy guarantees no freedom from oppression which equals no freedom.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Free Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:02 pm

Anarchy is freedom from oppression, destruction of all governments. NO. LAWS. N O L A W S.

You're wrong.

Most people are so enslaved, so modern, that you cannot even begin to conceive the notion of "true freedom". You're restrained and restricted, mentally. You cannot even imagine or envision a state of reality in which you, or anybody else, are actually 100% free.

I can. The rest of you can't. My mind is free.
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Re: Free Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:04 pm

You three, Wendy, Serendipper, Void, are all pro-government. You cannot conceive of life, without your Slave-Master, The State, the centralized authority, watching over you. You're all clinging to the "Big Daddy" concept, the "Sky Father".

You're clinging to your invisible God. That's Enslavement.
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Re: Free Government

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:15 pm

Hey, I'm being a realist. Another anarchist can end your freedom with a bullet in your head so quickly that you did nothing more than take a few free breaths. It's only free in being a free for all and it's objectionable when you value your continued existence. All out chaos cannot be overcome and there are no winners who triumph against it...for long.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Free Government

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:20 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Anarchy is freedom from oppression, destruction of all governments. NO. LAWS. N O L A W S.

You're wrong.

Most people are so enslaved, so modern, that you cannot even begin to conceive the notion of "true freedom". You're restrained and restricted, mentally. You cannot even imagine or envision a state of reality in which you, or anybody else, are actually 100% free.

I can. The rest of you can't. My mind is free.

Anarchy is aggressive for a reason...to conquer or be conquered. And it's only a temporary fix to dissolve a current government but will fail very quickly with people forming gangs with rules/laws the beginnings of unofficial governments with rulers and the process you loathe of slavedom begins all over again.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Free Government

Postby Serendipper » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:24 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Isn't that what I already said in a mess of words? You did say it better but I planted that seed in your mind, Serendipper...just saying. :evilfun: :lol:

Good thing I have shoulders of giants to stand on ;)

Urwrongx1000 wrote:You three, Wendy, Serendipper, Void, are all pro-government. You cannot conceive of life, without your Slave-Master, The State, the centralized authority, watching over you. You're all clinging to the "Big Daddy" concept, the "Sky Father".

You're clinging to your invisible God. That's Enslavement.

I think you're jumping to conclusions and sliding down a slippery slope. :banana-skier:

I suppose we would have to define freedom before we can decide what we're free from. So if you define freedom as being free of any sort of structure or restraint in action, then I guess having no laws would be freedom to you. But you would not be free in the sense of pursuing life and happiness because someone will oppress you without a law saying they cannot. It depends how you define freedom and inconsistent definitions are causing this miscommunication.

Freedom from law
Freedom from oppression

The enlightening aspect of this conversation is that I realize now that freedom cannot exist without clarification, "freedom from what?" It's like saying "I'm quitting." Quitting what? Or, "I'm leaving." Leaving where? "I'm done." Done with what?

So if you're saying "freedom from laws is freedom from laws", then you're right. But if you're saying "freedom from laws is freedom from oppression", then you're wrong. In the latter, the laws guarantee the freedom from oppression.
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