Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:14 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
for the right, it is all about conspiracies and how innocent they are...
the left is the demon and the hater of America and the........
for someone on the right, if anything is wrong in America,
it is the left and their conspiracy to destroy America....
of course they never have proof of their little conspiracy theories....
what they have is faith that the right is correct and right and only
concerned about the welfare of America, not the evil left......

Peter, this thread is full of proof from actual live footage of the events being discussed by varying sources, it also presents photographs of various political personalities and government officials and their connections to the matters at hand. ANTIFA is also in Europe, destroying European countries as we speak to ensure the globalist agenda, it's not a simple conspiracy in the USA government, this spans the globe and affects many European and non-European nations, hence globalism.

K: that is a lot of conspiracy theories wrapped into one little paragraph....
ok, so show me the proof... where would I look to find the 'TRUTH"?
your "truth"?


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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:20 pm

Peter, where do you get your news? How many sources and mediums?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:24 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Peter, where do you get your news? How many sources and mediums?


K: it doesn't really matter... where would I go to find your "Truth"?

where would I look to become aware of all these conspiracies?

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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:28 pm

WendyDarling wrote:More questions without answering any questions. Disingenuous, another trait of the democratic liberal left.

So far what can be noticed about democratic liberal lefties is found in their conversations (verbal and written) are
1. Detached from reality
2. Dishonest due to be their detachment from reality
3. Disingenuous in the information they exchange

Thank you Peter for being such a perfect example.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:35 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:More questions without answering any questions. Disingenuous, another trait of the democratic liberal left.

So far what can be noticed about democratic liberal lefties is found in their conversations (verbal and written) are
1. Detached from reality
2. Dishonest due to be their detachment from reality
3. Disingenuous in the information they exchange

Thank you Peter for being such a perfect example.


K: which reality am I being detached from?

how am I being dishonest?

how am I being disingenuous?

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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:39 pm

Answer my questions first so I can understand where you are getting your understanding.
WendyDarling wrote:Peter, where do you get your news? How many sources and mediums?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:50 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Answer my questions first so I can understand where you are getting your understanding.
WendyDarling wrote:Peter, where do you get your news? How many sources and mediums?


K: Ok, I'll play..... I almost never watch TV news.... if it weren't for sports,
I wouldn't even own a TV set.... the websites I go to, in no particular
order other then how I remember them... Redstate, realclearpolitics,
on rare occasion Drudge.... 538, huffington post, fox news, espn and bleacher report,
think progress, astronomy picture of the day... love that site.....cnn....
I am sure there are a couple of others, but I can't recall them at the moment


I know you will find fault with my choices.... go for it.....

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby iambiguous » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:56 pm

Otto_West wrote:
Mr Reasonable wrote:Joker when did you become a white power dude?


Having lived in enough ghettos and places where whites are minorities I have the experience knowing that isn't the future any white person of European heritage wants to have.

Not a supremacist, a separatist instead where there is a big difference.


More to the point, he is an objectivist. He just flits from one dogma to the next.

Like I used to.

Again, it's not whether or not what he believes here is true, but that what he believes here is true.

It's all about embodying [pyschologically] one or another rendition of this:

1] there is a "real me" that transcends contingency, chance and change
2] this "real me" is in sync with one or another understanding of "virtue"
3] "virtue" is embedded in one or another rendition of God, Humanism, ideology, nature. *

Or maybe he doesn't call it virtue. Maybe he calls it, oh, I don't know, nature?

Well, unless of course I'm wrong.

* By the way, this particular "intellectual contraption" is my very latest [copy/paste] groot! :wink:

Oh, and you [Otto] seemed to have abandoned our exchange over on the KT Chimp thread.

This one:

Otto_West wrote:
camus666 wrote:
Otto_West wrote:I fail to see how describing human morality as dysfunctional or flaky as a cause of alarm.


Noted.

Now, as I suggested to OnWithTheirHead above...

1] pick a moral/political issue that we are all familiar with
2] note your own moral/political narrative regarding it
3] note how this narrative is not rooted in the manner in which I have come to construe the meaning of dasein, conflicting goods and political economy.


Then we can discuss the extent to which describing human morality here as either dysfunctional or flaky may or may not be cause for alarm.


Iambiguous?  You pick the subject that you want to talk about and we'll go from there.


Okay, the subject I always focus the high beam on here is abortion.

Why?

1] it is a conflicting good that almost everyone is familiar with
2] it is a conflicting good that almost everyone has an opinion about
3] it revolves literally around life and death
4] it is the issue that, embedded in this...

1] I was raised in the belly of the working class beast. My family/community were very conservative. Abortion was a sin.
2] I was drafted into the Army and while on my "tour of duty" in Vietnam I happened upon politically radical folks who reconfigured my thinking about abortion. And God and lots of other things.
3] after I left the Army, I enrolled in college and became further involved in left wing politics. It was all the rage back then. I became a feminist. I married a feminist. I wholeheartedly embraced a woman's right to choose.
4] then came the calamity with Mary and John. I loved them both but their engagement was foundering on the rocks that was Mary's choice to abort their unborn baby.
5] back and forth we all went. I supported Mary but I could understand the points that John was making. I could understand the arguments being made on both sides. John was right from his side and Mary was right from hers.
6] I read William Barrett's Irrational Man and came upon his conjectures regarding "rival goods".
7] Then, over time, I abandoned an objectivist frame of mind that revolved around Marxism/feminism. Instead, I became more and more embedded in existentialism. And then as more years passed I became an advocate for moral nihilism.


...first propelled me in the general direction of this:

If I am always of the opinion that 1] my own values are rooted in dasein and 2] that there are no objective values "I" can reach, then every time I make one particular moral/political leap, I am admitting that I might have gone in the other direction...or that I might just as well have gone in the other direction. Then "I" begins to fracture and fragment to the point there is nothing able to actually keep it all together. At least not with respect to choosing sides morally and politically.

In other words, there are folks on both sides of the divide -- the abortion wars -- who construe their own moral/political narrative as anything but dysfunctional and flaky. On the contrary, they almost always perceive those who are not "one of us" on this [and every other issue] as the truly dysfunctional, flaky ones.

Now, if you were to confront these folks -- folks for and against abortion -- outside any particular clinic, how would you go about arguing that, with respect to the act shredding the life of the unborn, you see "describing human morality as dysfunctional or flaky" here "as no cause of alarm"?

Maybe I am just not understanding your point.


Shall we just resume that here? Change the subject from abortion to race?
Last edited by iambiguous on Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:56 pm

European ANTIFA is more militant and organized than the USA ANTIFA
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
ANTIFA always wear face coverings, in Europe full black outfits, but here they haven't gotten the whole uniform together yet, well, not all of them.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:00 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Answer my questions first so I can understand where you are getting your understanding.
WendyDarling wrote:Peter, where do you get your news? How many sources and mediums?


K: Ok, I'll play..... I almost never watch TV news.... if it weren't for sports,
I wouldn't even own a TV set.... the websites I go to, in no particular
order other then how I remember them... Redstate, realclearpolitics,
on rare occasion Drudge.... 538, huffington post, fox news, espn and bleacher report,
think progress, astronomy picture of the day... love that site.....cnn....
I am sure there are a couple of others, but I can't recall them at the moment


I know you will find fault with my choices.... go for it.....

Kropotkin

Honestly, I need to check them out for I haven't heard of many of them. It's about understanding where your thoughts are coming from, not a critique. Thank you for answering my inquiries. I'll see what they offer.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:30 pm

WendyDarling: Peter, where do you get your news? How many sources and mediums?"

K: Ok, I'll play..... I almost never watch TV news.... if it weren't for sports,
I wouldn't even own a TV set.... the websites I go to, in no particular
order other then how I remember them... Redstate, realclearpolitics,
on rare occasion Drudge.... 538, huffington post, fox news, espn and bleacher report,
think progress, astronomy picture of the day... love that site.....cnn....
I am sure there are a couple of others, but I can't recall them at the moment


I know you will find fault with my choices.... go for it.....

Kropotkin[/quote]
Honestly, I need to check them out for I haven't heard of many of them. It's about understanding where your thoughts are coming from, not a critique. Thank you for answering my inquiries. I'll see what they offer.[/quote]

K: in other words, you don't have any sources you rely on otherwise, you would name them.....
I find that very instructive.... I seem to rely on far more resources then you do and yet,
you find me "detached from reality" and you have called me "disingenuous" and you called
me "dishonest" and yet, yet, I rely on many more sources then you do, even right wing
sites for example, Redstate and fox news and realclearpolitics.....I use as resources....
and yet, I am still "detached from reality" which btw you haven't shown us HOW, I am
"detached from reality"....... how I am "disingenuous" or how I am "dishonest".....
in fact, you haven't shown us anything yet, no evidence of any kind connecting the
picture in a previous post as being Antifa......just people in black outfits...
which btw is the dress code of many, many work places including my work..
I wear black pants and a black polo shirt every day as part of my work outfit and
I am in fact, wearing right now as I go to work shortly.......

I have asked several questions and has yet haven't seen a single answer from you
or from anybody.....I have answer your questions, now answer mine.....

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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:32 pm

More importantly than all of this - who gives a shit?

Why is it bad if commie-fascist brainwashed morons go kill and get killed?

Why would we want there to not be war?

Because why would we want to live in peace with people as hypocritical as Peter Kropotkin?
You can't live in peace with fascist collaborators and not also be a fascist collaborator.

So lets just acknowledge that it is war - that the Democrats have declared war on the US and on humanity-
and we, humans, will be glad to answer their call.

Bring it on.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides

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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:01 pm

I asked for your answers in good faith and took your answers in good faith but did not think your questions about finding out my "truth" were asked in good faith, so I didn't believe you really wanted my answers which you have shown in your obnoxious manner of asking, your hateful tone, and facetiousness repeatedly, but since your hostility insists, they are as follows: all of YouTube's live coverage/footage of news events by various commentary channels and individuals, CNN, CBSN, NBC, MSN.com, Yahoo.com, several TV streaming documentary channels, our local newspaper occasionally on the weekends (usually Sundays), also links that I find on ILP and other random sites, not much talk radio anymore though. :evilfun:
Last edited by WendyDarling on Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:04 pm

Now back to your negative whining and accusations, what were your questions that I have refused to answer?
yet, I am still "detached from reality" which btw you haven't shown us HOW, I am
"detached from reality"....... how I am "disingenuous" or how I am "dishonest".....
in fact, you haven't shown us anything yet, no evidence of any kind connecting the
picture in a previous post as being Antifa......just people in black outfits...
which btw is the dress code of many, many work places including my work..
I wear black pants and a black polo shirt every day as part of my work outfit and
I am in fact, wearing right now as I go to work shortly.......

What's above right? Oh goodie, but this is going to take awhile for I owe Carleas my blood first, so you'll have to get in line, but believe me, I can't wait to go into depth about your questions, all the perfect examples you afford me on ILP for you are the perfect example.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:38 pm

Personally, I would like nothing more than to see the sjw's and neonazis engage of an epic clash of destiny so that we would have never hear from either parties ever again.

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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Otto_West » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:16 pm

American neo-nazis could learn a thing or two from European modern day national socialists who abandoned swastika usage decades ago. American neo-nazis and the Klu Klux Klan look like morons parading around that it is deeply embarrassing. They look like a bunch of inbred juvenile larping historical actors. Look at modern day Swedish national socialists, they look far more presentable in appearance publicly.

Of course a lot of American neo-nazis and klan members are full of F.B.I. informants and hired actors from the Southern Poverty Law Center also, there's that to consider as well.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Otto_West » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:26 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Where could that happen today?

It will happen eventually one way or another. Like most western nations white European people have been fleeing the cities for rural areas about several decades now. The only white people that stay in cities nowadays are either people that are forced to because of work or the liberal delusionals. At some point white European people are going to run out of places to retreat to and once this happens conflict is inevitable as we become ethnic minorities.

No culture or ethnicity can survive balkanization and close proximity with others for very long.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Otto_West » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:35 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wendy wrote:
YouTube is restricting my ability to load her video probably more liberal leftists censorship

I have also heard this from Paul Joseph Watson whose YouTube videos I regularly watch

YouTube should not be making political decisions about who can or cannot post on their site

I am a liberal but fully support the right of anyone to post anything they want long as it is not illegal

I think that the same is happening on twitter although maybe to a lesser extent but it is still not acceptable

The corporate neo-liberals have full control of media platforms like Instagram, Reddit, Facebook, Tumblr, and Twitter. In the future anti-establishment people are going to have to become more creative in the age of growing massive internet censorship. Thankfully Carleas hasn't tried to censor us here which I'm very thankful. Hopefully he doesn't change his mind on that.

So far unlike Europe, Russia, Canada, and Australia the United States doesn't have thought crimes laws against Europeans that embrace white identity. So far it it doesn't....that can change quickly overnight however.

In order to overcome adversity like I said, we need to be creative.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Otto_West » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:44 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:You have a very active imagination indeed if you think I want to see America destroyed Wendy. But having said that I
am not at all surprised at what is happening and I think it will carry on for as long as Trump is president if not longer


The United States is a military police state international finance oligarchy and plutocracy, it needs to be destroyed along with being rebuilt afterwards as it is currently a blight upon this world.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Otto_West » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:46 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:
for the right, it is all about conspiracies and how innocent they are...
the left is the demon and the hater of America and the........
for someone on the right, if anything is wrong in America,
it is the left and their conspiracy to destroy America....
of course they never have proof of their little conspiracy theories....
what they have is faith that the right is correct and right and only
concerned about the welfare of America, not the evil left......

Peter, this thread is full of proof from actual live footage of the events being discussed by varying sources, it also presents photographs of various political personalities and government officials and their connections to the matters at hand. ANTIFA is also in Europe, destroying European countries as we speak to ensure the globalist agenda, it's not a simple conspiracy in the USA government, this spans the globe and affects many European and non-European nations, hence globalism.

K: that is a lot of conspiracy theories wrapped into one little paragraph....
ok, so show me the proof... where would I look to find the 'TRUTH"?
your "truth"?


Kropotkin


Peter Kropotkin is a waste of time as he relies very much everyday on his social propaganda matrix.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Otto_West » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:51 pm

James S Saint wrote:You guys should Google Agitprop sometime:
Jack Cashill wrote:Script of Engagement
To understand the events in Charlottesville, it helps to know how the left operates. During the 2016 campaign, veteran Democratic operative Scott Foval unwittingly shared the left’s playbook with anyone who cared to see.

Foval explained his strategy to an undercover journalist with James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas. He boasted specifically about the art of provoking violence at Trump rallies, all of which was recorded on camera.

“There’s a script of engagement,” said Foval. “Sometimes the crazies bite, and sometimes the crazies don’t bite.”

He continued, “They’re starting conversations in the line. Right? They’re not starting confrontations in the rally. Because once they’re inside the rally they’re under Secret Service’s control.”

The “they” in question are the provocateurs Foval’s people planted to agitate the crowd. Some were seasoned operatives like the union thugs Democrats have employed for years. “They’ll do whateeeevvverrr you want,” said Foval.

Others were clueless human cannon fodder. “I’m saying we have mentally ill people that we pay to do s–t,” Foval bragged. “Make no mistake. Over the last 20 years, I’ve paid off a few homeless guys to do some crazy stuff.”

Foval understood that this strategy worked only because the media wanted it to work. “The media will cover it no matter where it happens,” he stated. “The key is initiating the conflict by having leading conversations with people who are naturally psychotic.”

“I mean, honestly, it is not hard to get some of these a–holes to pop off,” he elaborated. “It is a matter of showing up, to want to get into the rally in ‘Planned Parenthood’ T-shirts or ‘Trump is a Nazi,’ you know. You can message to draw them out, and draw them to punch you.”

This is not a strategy Foval improvised for the campaign. The “script of engagement” dates back to at least the 1920s when the Soviets/Russians first started meddling in American politics.

The occasion then was the ongoing saga of Sacco and Vanzetti, a pair of Italian anarchists who received a fair trial for a murder committed during a payroll robbery and were convicted.

Guilty or not, the Soviet Comintern stirred up massive worldwide agitation on their behalf. Sympathetic liberal writers flocked to the cause and reported events as scripted by the Comintern. This combination of agitation and propaganda came to be known as “agitprop.”

Agitprop was clearly the name of the game at Charlottesville on Saturday. The script of engagement called for the counter-protesters to stoke the “crazies” on the right, knowing well that the media would report events in the left’s favor.

Embedded among the counter-protesters, many of them innocent liberals, were the hardcore bully boys of Antifa. The Neo-Nazis were a self-deluding relic of the past, but Antifa may well be the vanguard of the future.

Although the American media are inclined to protect Antifa, the BBC proved much more forthright in its coverage.

“Antifa is anti-government and anti-capitalist, and their methodologies are often perceived as more closely aligned with anarchists than the mainstream left,” wrote the BBC’s Brenna Cameron.

“Antifa does not shy away from militant protest methods, including the destruction of property and sometimes physical violence. They were present at the 2017 Berkeley protests of far-right speaker Milo Yiannopoulos and at violent protests against Donald Trump’s inauguration; they were also present at Charlottesville.”

Cameron added the obvious, “Unlike the mainstream left, they do not seek to gain power through traditional channels – winning elections and passing bills into law.”

Lenin referred to the well-intended progressives who flocked to his cause as “useful idiots.” For him, they were pure pawns, totally expendable once they ceased to be useful. On Saturday, unfortunately, they served the same purpose for Antifa.

At Charlottesville, Antifa succeeded in stoking at least one crazy. For reasons still not fully established, he drove his car into a crowd of protesters, killed one seemingly innocent liberal and wounded several others.

I doubt if Antifa expected any fatalities, but I suspect they were thrilled there was one, especially since the woman killed was one of their own young innocents.

That’s the way agitprop works. Look for more of it.

Read more

Perhaps you could come to understand PK's motives better.


Exactly James, what we're witnessing here is some Ukrainian style agitpropping with the latest events coming out of Charlottesville.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Otto_West » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:54 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:what I see here from the right, is the same old conspiracy
theorist hard at work finding someone else to blame about
their own actions...

for example, their newest conspiracy is this Antifa...
they claim, never with proof, but they claim that
antifa is some paid group that create chaos and violence..
some mysterious group who somehow escapes the police,
probable the police is paid off somehow too.....
and this Antifa can mysteriously show up to a really and
then just as mysteriously disappear and never be held
accountable for its actions because it is sooooooooooo
mysterious and the instigators of every single horrible act
the right is accused of..... of course, we never hear any one
specific name of being part of this nation wide terror group
because they are being protected by the media and the police
who are, of course, being paid by and is part of the left wing
agenda of destroying America... but of course we never
hear any good reason WHY, WHY would the left want to
destroy America.... that is never really explained except
for this mysterious hatred of America, that once again
is never proven or actually shown to exist........

Antifia is the modern notion of the Jew who of course,
controlled the modern world order... the right must find someone
to blame....instead of looking at their right actions, it had to be
someone else who caused the violence because it is never us.....
because we, the right and those who also follow our beliefs are innocent
as purely driven snow....we are the most innocent to ever walk
the planet earth... all we have is our pure love of country and
of god and we alone can see this massive conspiracy to destroy
our beloved country...we alone are pure of spirit and because of
this, we could never had cause any pain our of our love of country..
so thinks the right......

for the right, it is all about conspiracies and how innocent they are...
the left is the demon and the hater of America and the........
for someone on the right, if anything is wrong in America,
it is the left and their conspiracy to destroy America....
of course they never have proof of their little conspiracy theories....
what they have is faith that the right is correct and right and only
concerned about the welfare of America, not the evil left......

I am under no illusion that anyone from the right will change their
mind... the right's faith in their conspiracies and their innocence
will never changed... I know this... I am doing nothing more then venting
because the right will never change its mind because the right has its faith
and faith is far more important to the right then any actual fact or proof....

so keep your faith in your conspiracy theories because really,
that is all you have conspiracies and nothing more, no evidence,
no proof, no facts.... just blind faith... I hope it is enough for you.....

Kropotkin


Typical leftist drivel that worships authority and state institutions absolutely that denies there are any ongoing conspiracies throughout human history. The naivety and smug gullibility coming from people like you is astounding. The typical liberal will say that human history is without any conspiracies at all.

It is such naive interpretations of human nature that has got us where we are presently.
Your entire world of fantasy and make believe is doomed, have a nice day.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Otto_West » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:09 pm

Arminius wrote:I did not mean the more obejective situation but the more subjective situation, thus: Nixon’s emotions and Trump’s emotions. The outer situations are surely very different, but the inner situations are at least similar, I think.


Are you referring to the last occurrences in Charlottesville (Virginia) or to the USA in general?

The people of the European politics and media are talking about Trump as somebody who is an enemy of Europe or, at least, has nothing to do with Europe. Also, the people of the European politics and media are saying about the last occurrences in Charlottesville (Virginia) that the leftist are harmless and the rightists are guilty of the violence. In other words: Europe has become the new USA as the new USSR. I think, there is merely a slight difference between the Europe and the USA when it comes to politics and media. What do you think?


Well, let us hope that what happened to Nixon doesn't happen to Trump. If it does it won't go down as peacefully as it did in the 1970's. Certainly the circumstances are much different.

Unfortunately Europe (European Union) is a vassal state of the United States with our military bases spread all over there along with our funding of N.A.T.O. I dream that one day Europeans will be independent again to pursue their own lives in independence without being under American yoke and influence. I dream that one day Europeans will shake off the yoke of the European Central Bank and that the Unites States will become free of the Federal Reserve.

(Both institutions work together in conjunction also.)

Americans and Europeans must work together to keep the dream of independence alive in solidarity as we are fighting the same enemies. The American and European struggle are one in the same.

Also, isn't it interesting how European media takes its directives from American media? Just mind boggling.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Otto_West » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:31 pm

iambiguous wrote:More to the point, he is an objectivist. He just flits from one dogma to the next.

Like I used to.

Again, it's not whether or not what he believes here is true, but that what he believes here is true.

It's all about embodying [pyschologically] one or another rendition of this:

1] there is a "real me" that transcends contingency, chance and change
2] this "real me" is in sync with one or another understanding of "virtue"
3] "virtue" is embedded in one or another rendition of God, Humanism, ideology, nature. *

Or maybe he doesn't call it virtue. Maybe he calls it, oh, I don't know, nature?

Well, unless of course I'm wrong.

* By the way, this particular "intellectual contraption" is my very latest [copy/paste] groot! :wink:

Oh, and you [Otto] seemed to have abandoned our exchange over on the KT Chimp thread.

This one:


Noted.

Now, as I suggested to OnWithTheirHead above...

1] pick a moral/political issue that we are all familiar with
2] note your own moral/political narrative regarding it
3] note how this narrative is not rooted in the manner in which I have come to construe the meaning of dasein, conflicting goods and political economy.


Then we can discuss the extent to which describing human morality here as either dysfunctional or flaky may or may not be cause for alarm.



Okay, the subject I always focus the high beam on here is abortion.

Why?

1] it is a conflicting good that almost everyone is familiar with
2] it is a conflicting good that almost everyone has an opinion about
3] it revolves literally around life and death
4] it is the issue that, embedded in this...

1] I was raised in the belly of the working class beast. My family/community were very conservative. Abortion was a sin.
2] I was drafted into the Army and while on my "tour of duty" in Vietnam I happened upon politically radical folks who reconfigured my thinking about abortion. And God and lots of other things.
3] after I left the Army, I enrolled in college and became further involved in left wing politics. It was all the rage back then. I became a feminist. I married a feminist. I wholeheartedly embraced a woman's right to choose.
4] then came the calamity with Mary and John. I loved them both but their engagement was foundering on the rocks that was Mary's choice to abort their unborn baby.
5] back and forth we all went. I supported Mary but I could understand the points that John was making. I could understand the arguments being made on both sides. John was right from his side and Mary was right from hers.
6] I read William Barrett's Irrational Man and came upon his conjectures regarding "rival goods".
7] Then, over time, I abandoned an objectivist frame of mind that revolved around Marxism/feminism. Instead, I became more and more embedded in existentialism. And then as more years passed I became an advocate for moral nihilism.


...first propelled me in the general direction of this:

If I am always of the opinion that 1] my own values are rooted in dasein and 2] that there are no objective values "I" can reach, then every time I make one particular moral/political leap, I am admitting that I might have gone in the other direction...or that I might just as well have gone in the other direction. Then "I" begins to fracture and fragment to the point there is nothing able to actually keep it all together. At least not with respect to choosing sides morally and politically.

In other words, there are folks on both sides of the divide -- the abortion wars -- who construe their own moral/political narrative as anything but dysfunctional and flaky. On the contrary, they almost always perceive those who are not "one of us" on this [and every other issue] as the truly dysfunctional, flaky ones.

Now, if you were to confront these folks -- folks for and against abortion -- outside any particular clinic, how would you go about arguing that, with respect to the act shredding the life of the unborn, you see "describing human morality as dysfunctional or flaky" here "as no cause of alarm"?

Maybe I am just not understanding your point.
[/color][/b]

Shall we just resume that here? Change the subject from abortion to race?


Iambiguous why don't you create a separate thread here instead of KTF and then we can converse together. I grow bored and weary of Know Thyself Forum anyways which is why I haven't been back there recently. I thought that if I came over there under an olive branch setting aside the past under a clean slate things might be different but as usual my hope for the contrary ends up being fruitless.

Also, while I may be a nihilist I am not completely ignorant of practical matters concerning pragmatism. Solipsism, individual preference, and subjectivism will only get you so far in this world which is never enough. Of course I admit publicly these were things which I struggled with in the past but I'm trying to elevate myself onto new horizons trying to transcend all of that.

I definitely don't describe myself as an objectivist either but like I said we can discuss that in another thread.
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Re: Charlottesville Virginia Clash.

Postby Is_Yde_opN » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:03 am

Otto_West wrote:The typical liberal will say that human history is without any conspiracies at all.


erm... Russia conspiracy.
Koch brothers....

People tend to want to make sense of the world but there is also a need for emotional stability and security.

An example from the right wing would be the negative emotional conditioning towards National Socialism.
For what I am saying it doesn't matter if this negative conditioning is good or bad but it's very much present.
Either way, because of this there is an impulse to denounce everything which looks too much like what we picture as National Socialism but at the same time White people increasingly realise the misery of White Privilege self-censorship, the reality of racial differences and the pushing of anti-White hatred through the media, academia and so forth pushes them to become more 'fashy'.
So because they can't embrace elements which are associated with National Socialism in their mind, without their emotional conditioning guilt tripping them, they have to find explanations for it. "Like Democrats are the real fascists/racists and so on." or "Somebody planted those Nazi types to smear true conservatism."

The left (as the contemporary right) has no negative conditioning towards communism. It's no biggie.
But they have other stability concerns, like their dependence on the coalition of third world populations and the shitlibs and their sensibilities.
To keep this mess going they have to come up with all kinds of absurd explanations.
Like their third world populations and their black constituency are what they are because they have been held back and are still being held back by those Republican White Males. Violence? - If there is any then it's because of racist White people, I swear.
You have to explain this shit to yourself somehow and the idea of racism explains all the shortcomings away as injustice and it's even perpetrated by the evil racists from the opposition. Two birds with one stone.
What is the evil for them? Unreformed White people. White people who don't cheer for their displacement, White people who don't accept that they are evil.


Why did the White people (mostly conservatives today in the USA) wake up and deal with their emotional conditioning? Because life is getting tougher for them and that pain is becoming stronger than their emotional safety zone, which is partly conditioned because of the emotional needs of a different tribe.
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