Government

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Re: Government

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:41 pm

James S Saint wrote:Populations do not inherently, automatically, or naturally harmonize without a governing agent. Thus governing is required so as to bring cohesiveness and harmonious behavior. Civilization, science, technology, philosophy, knowledge are all accomplishable only because there was governing going on in different forms. The only issue is whether the good outweighs the bad. At times it does. At times it doesn't.

Obviously the best governing excludes abuse of the populace but until that agent can be promoted into authority, its converse remains dominant - if you are not doing the right thing, you are doing the wrong thing.


Depends on the size and scope of the government.

For instance, I would like to make a philosophy facility, where I would govern the philosophers and make sure they debate following the rules of logic and sound argument, as well as coordinate the food, refreshments and beverages, and supervise and assist with the building itself.
This is the ideal government, simple coordination for a good cause, keeping things running smoothly.
The current government, is a dictatorship with no interest in making things go smoothly, in fact most politicians vote for city plans that destroy the infrastructure more than help it, like spending taxes to build broken roads and public transportation services that serve no function and inhibit progress, that is if their money isn't spent into their new suvs and jacoozis waiting for them at home.
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Re: Government

Postby James S Saint » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:49 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
James S Saint wrote:Obviously the best governing excludes abuse of the populace but until that agent can be promoted into authority, its converse remains dominant - if you are not doing the right thing, you are doing the wrong thing.


Depends on the size and scope of the government.

For instance, I would like to make a philosophy facility, where I would govern the philosophers and make sure they debate following the rules of logic and sound argument, as well as coordinate the food, refreshments and beverages, and supervise and assist with the building itself.
This is the ideal government, simple coordination for a good cause, keeping things running smoothly.
The current government, is a dictatorship with no interest in making things go smoothly, in fact most politicians vote for city plans that destroy the infrastructure more than help it, like spending taxes to build broken roads and public transportation services that serve no function and inhibit progress, that is if their money isn't spent into their new suvs and jacoozis waiting for them at home.

Let me rephrase: If you are not doing the SAM thing, you are doing the bad thing.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Government

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:15 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
James S Saint wrote:Obviously the best governing excludes abuse of the populace but until that agent can be promoted into authority, its converse remains dominant - if you are not doing the right thing, you are doing the wrong thing.


Depends on the size and scope of the government.

For instance, I would like to make a philosophy facility, where I would govern the philosophers and make sure they debate following the rules of logic and sound argument, as well as coordinate the food, refreshments and beverages, and supervise and assist with the building itself.
This is the ideal government, simple coordination for a good cause, keeping things running smoothly.
The current government, is a dictatorship with no interest in making things go smoothly, in fact most politicians vote for city plans that destroy the infrastructure more than help it, like spending taxes to build broken roads and public transportation services that serve no function and inhibit progress, that is if their money isn't spent into their new suvs and jacoozis waiting for them at home.

Let me rephrase: If you are not doing the SAM thing, you are doing the bad thing.


Sam thing?
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Re: Government

Postby James S Saint » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:31 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
Sam thing?

SAM Co-ops. I thought that you would remember: In Sight of SAM, I Am
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25452
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:34 pm

James S Saint wrote:I suspect a little equivocation going on there. The will of the people is utilized in the process of governing. That will is not the governing itself, else there would be no need to govern. To govern is to limit or restrict an otherwise choatic, dispassionate, or undesired emoting of the populace (the very meaning of "Ahdam" from Genesis, the first government). Thus the presence of a government requires a distinction between the governing agent and the governed mass.

So Otto is correct in saying that the majority of the populace is always relatively powerless. Whether the governing agent is "criminal" is more an case of being "typical" and recently "very typical", rather than necessarily always. And it happens that way for a very specific reason that is extremely difficult to thwart. What inspires people to be strong is also what inspires them to be criminally dispassionate and manipulative. "Man", the man-ipulator of the people must remain rationally disciplined from the random urgings and emotings of the populace, else governing into any form of harmony cannot be achieved.

Populations do not inherently, automatically, or naturally harmonize without a governing agent. Thus governing is required so as to bring cohesiveness and harmonious behavior. Civilization, science, technology, philosophy, knowledge are all accomplishable only because there was governing going on in different forms. The only issue is whether the good outweighs the bad. At times it does. At times it doesn't.

Obviously the best governing excludes abuse of the populace but until that agent can be promoted into authority, its converse remains dominant - if you are not doing the right thing, you are doing the wrong thing.

People seem to separate "The Government" apart from "The People", like the mind-body duality, claiming they are distinct and independent. This is false because governments are comprised of people too. Thus there is no real division. If there is a division then it is, as you mention, a division of labor and specialization. Those who 'Govern' are those who impose order over the chaotic general population. Thus the Governor does seem opposed to "The People".

There is an element of Dehumanization implied here. When a Governor rises up, gains and holds power, then he is no longer part of "The People". You and Otto are both presuming and implying this. Both of you probably perceive "The Governor" as not a person, or those who govern are not people. This is more obvious with christianity as christians perceive "The Governor" as not human at all, but an invisible sky-god.

Personally, I demand realism and reality. The u.s. government is more obvious. Congressmen, Supreme Court Justices, the President, all of these "governors" are people, who represent other people, within a democratic-republic system. Different systems and conceptions of government will result in different relationships and dynamics of power.


So to conclude this response, it's invalid to separate "The Government" or "The Governor" from "The People" without a reasonable case or argument. Aren't you implying that those who govern are "not people" at all? Did they lose their humanity, by becoming moral authorities, leaders, put into positions of responsibility?

How are they no longer "the people" like anybody else? Except that a Governor is presumed to be in a position of moral responsibility, on behalf of society?
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Re: Government

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:29 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
Sam thing?

SAM Co-ops. I thought that you would remember: In Sight of SAM, I Am


Ah yes, I remember now.
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Re: Government

Postby James S Saint » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:31 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:People seem to separate "The Government" apart from "The People", like the mind-body duality, claiming they are distinct and independent.

Although not entirely independent, mind and body are, in fact distinct, as are the governor and the governed. A US State has a Governor. The governor is not the mass populace, but a single individual, distinct. Yet both parties are interdependent. The US Constitutional government, when it was in power, was an attempt to stitch the populace more strongly into the governorship process. And to a large degree, it succeeded. Although in the long run, due to some clever and illegal deceptions, the process was subverted and now remains only as a guise with little governing authority. The authority to govern diverted to those who control the money supply, the medical supply, and the media supply. And those are relatively very, very few people who have very little concern for the will of the masses because they know through experience that they can alter and dictate that will to conform sufficiently to their own wishes.

Surely you don't think all of this trans-gender, save the whales, superiority of women, mass migration, Blacks on Blonds, Muslims on Frauleins is all just natural nor "the will of the people"? There is nothing natural nor the result of natural mass will going on in the world today other than the objection to the forced direction. And that force has a very poignant hand controlling it.

Urwrongx1000 wrote: This is false because governments are comprised of people too. Thus there is no real division.

The Nazis and the Jews were people too, so there is no real distinction?

Urwrongx1000 wrote: If there is a division then it is, as you mention, a division of labor and specialization. Those who 'Govern' are those who impose order over the chaotic general population. Thus the Governor does seem opposed to "The People".

There is an element of Dehumanization implied here. When a Governor rises up, gains and holds power, then he is no longer part of "The People". You and Otto are both presuming and implying this.

That is all that has been intended.

Urwrongx1000 wrote: Both of you probably perceive "The Governor" as not a person, or those who govern are not people. This is more obvious with christianity as christians perceive "The Governor" as not human at all, but an invisible sky-god.

Actually, I think the intent has been that the governorship is in the hands of "only a few people" who are relatively ruthless concerning the mass of people. They literally bring about millions of deaths yearly through provoked wars for their personal profit. They lust to be God and control all of life everywhere. They are self inspired to believe it is their obligation, much like television programmers now fully accept that it is their obligation to hypnotize the masses into "proper" thinking.

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Personally, I demand realism and reality. The u.s. government is more obvious. Congressmen, Supreme Court Justices, the President, all of these "governors" are people, who represent other people, within a democratic-republic system. Different systems and conceptions of government will result in different relationships and dynamics of power.

Being "real" means considering the total picture, not merely a conveniently limited picture. It is true that such systems are a big part of the picture of governing. But one cannot leave out the relatively small, yet vastly significant hinge-pins swaying that system.

What is real is that you cannot see the larger portion of what is going on in a society. A society is much like an iceberg, 2/3s under see-level. Otto and I have been referring to a particularly powerful yet small element down there under the obvious part that everyone can see. And to the fact that such a small part does not represent the masses, but rather that the masses represent those few down there. The masses are somewhat insane because their leadership is somewhat insane. Such is a common reflection in every large grouping.


Urwrongx1000 wrote:Aren't you implying that those who govern are "not people" at all?

No. We are implying that those who are governing are not the "will of the masses", but rather reign over the masses, largely in deceitful, thieving, and murderous ways (aka "criminal").

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Did they lose their humanity, by becoming moral authorities, leaders, put into positions of responsibility?

Very largely, yes.

Urwrongx1000 wrote:How are they no longer "the people" like anybody else? Except that a Governor is presumed to be in a position of moral responsibility, on behalf of society?

How did a murderer lose his humanity? You don't believe there has ever been mass murderers? Those who create wars are murderers. They lose their "humanity" by believing that they are above it and special. Most of them believe that it is they who are the true humans (the hue-of-Man) while the masses are but animals and even crops in need of restraining, confining, and subduing. They feed off of the masses so as to gain more for their own ambitions in the exact same way that people often feed off of livestock.

That is how they lose their "humanity" - by believing themselves to be special and above, while in fact subduing from the dark below. "Those who reign in darkness rule the world." - Paradise Lost.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25452
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Government

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:42 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Urwrongx1000 wrote:People seem to separate "The Government" apart from "The People", like the mind-body duality, claiming they are distinct and independent.

Although not entirely independent, mind and body are, in fact distinct, as are the governor and the governed. A US State has a Governor. The governor is not the mass populace, but a single individual, distinct. Yet both parties are interdependent. The US Constitutional government, when it was in power, was an attempt to stitch the populace more strongly into the governorship process. And to a large degree, it succeeded. Although in the long run, due to some clever and illegal deceptions, the process was subverted and now remains only as a guise with little governing authority. The authority to govern diverted to those who control the money supply, the medical supply, and the media supply. And those are relatively very, very few people who have very little concern for the will of the masses because they know through experience that they can alter and dictate that will to conform sufficiently to their own wishes.

Surely you don't think all of this trans-gender, save the whales, superiority of women, mass migration, Blacks on Blonds, Muslims on Frauleins is all just natural nor "the will of the people"? There is nothing natural nor the result of natural mass will going on in the world today other than the objection to the forced direction. And that force has a very poignant hand controlling it.


Have you ever thought, that people just want to be transgender, and save whales.
And that women were treated as second-class citizens since the dawn of time, and are finally getting tired of it?

And that blacks and muslims are naturally attracted to white blonde women?
And that muslim countries suck, thus they want to move to America?

Though this last part was in fact a government conspiracy, since America wanted to ensure that muslim countries suck, in order to promote muslim extremism in order to give reason to expand the prison system and global panopticon.
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Re: Government

Postby James S Saint » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:56 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Have you ever thought...

Thinking is not an issue of quantity, but of quality.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25452
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:34 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Urwrongx1000 wrote:Did they lose their humanity, by becoming moral authorities, leaders, put into positions of responsibility?

Very largely, yes.

Wait a second here......... you, and Otto, are both presuming that somebody who becomes a moral authority and lives in a position of responsibility, for him/herself, or for society at large, are less human than others, or not human at all???

So you're basically defining "humanity" as slaves here. Is that what a human is, a slave?
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Re: Government

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:35 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Have you ever thought...

Thinking is not an issue of quantity, but of quality.


If you want to make a quality thought, you should not deliberately snip quotes to change the meaning of them and deliberately put them out of context, and instead stick to the discussion at hand.
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Re: Government

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:36 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
James S Saint wrote:
Urwrongx1000 wrote:Did they lose their humanity, by becoming moral authorities, leaders, put into positions of responsibility?

Very largely, yes.

Wait a second here......... you, and Otto, are both presuming that somebody who becomes a moral authority and lives in a position of responsibility, for him/herself, or for society at large, are less human than others, or not human at all???

So you're basically defining "humanity" as slaves here. Is that what a human is, a slave?


Slave? You want to know what a slave is? Just look out the window.

Any modern automaton manipulated by the tv who just regurgitates the same political sewage of everyone else, typically, works 3 jobs and has no future goals other than work and breeding.
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Re: Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:38 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Have you ever thought, that people just want to be transgender, and save whales.
And that women were treated as second-class citizens since the dawn of time, and are finally getting tired of it?

And that blacks and muslims are naturally attracted to white blonde women?
And that muslim countries suck, thus they want to move to America?

Though this last part was in fact a government conspiracy, since America wanted to ensure that muslim countries suck, in order to promote muslim extremism in order to give reason to expand the prison system and global panopticon.

This is bullshit because men have always been the second-class citizens of societies throughout time, not women.

The female specie is innately privileged. Men are never privileged. Because women own the sex and sexual access. Women decide which bloodlines, qualities, traits, characters, etc. pass on into the next generation. Men decide very little within the context of society. Males that attempt to override this, rapists, are criminalized. Society does not tolerate a man who goes against women. These men are "criminals" by definition.

A criminal is a man who is not yet emasculated, humiliated, bent, and culled by society. Society intends to bend or break the back of every male within its subordination.

Judeo-christianity is a religion that specifically indoctrinates the masses, males, to bend their backs to god (alpha-male authority). Males who reject this system (satan) are deemed criminal, hostile, strange, outcast, outlawed, exiles.

The Outsiders.
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Re: Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:40 pm

Otto and James are claiming that governments do not represent "the will of the people" or "will of the masses".

I argue that, sometimes, they do. Maybe not all of the time, maybe not most of the time, but sometimes, yes.

Therefore we are at odds.
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Re: Government

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:48 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:This is bullshit because men have always been the second-class citizens of societies throughout time, not women.

The female specie is innately privileged. Men are never privileged. Because women own the sex and sexual access.

Only in modern times, and now all men are being punished for their forefather's crimes. Women are abusive to innocent men similar to how hitler was abusive to innocent jews. Many innocent jews died in the holocaust just as many innocent men are being abused by women for vengeance of the crimes of their forefathers.
Women decide which bloodlines, qualities, traits, characters, etc. pass on into the next generation. Men decide very little within the context of society. Males that attempt to override this, rapists, are criminalized. Society does not tolerate a man who goes against women. These men are "criminals" by definition.

A criminal is a man who is not yet emasculated, humiliated, bent, and culled by society. Society intends to bend or break the back of every male within its subordination.

Judeo-christianity is a religion that specifically indoctrinates the masses, males, to bend their backs to god (alpha-male authority). Males who reject this system (satan) are deemed criminal, hostile, strange, outcast, outlawed, exiles.

No, men decided everything since ancient times up until recently. Women had no say in politics and did not gain the right to vote until 1920. Men routinely oppressed other men and it was the father's who decided whether or not a man, or woman, would be allowed to breed in his family.

Anti-rape laws are the result of women begging to their alpha male authority and in order to further gain control of society the alpha male authority uses this to it's advantage, if it can cuck all males and shame them for having a natural sex-drive, it can further subjugate the population to it's ends.
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Re: Government

Postby James S Saint » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:33 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
James S Saint wrote:
Urwrongx1000 wrote:Did they lose their humanity, by becoming moral authorities, leaders, put into positions of responsibility?

Very largely, yes.

Wait a second here......... you, and Otto, are both presuming that somebody who becomes a moral authority and lives in a position of responsibility, for him/herself, or for society at large, are less human than others, or not human at all???

So you're basically defining "humanity" as slaves here. Is that what a human is, a slave?

In English, "losing your humanity" means "losing your compassion for other people".

Urwrongx1000 wrote:I argue that, sometimes, they do. Maybe not all of the time, maybe not most of the time, but sometimes, yes.

I have agreed with "sometimes". But to know the problem is to know the "Devil" and "Satanism". I suspect that you do not. A part of the attempt to gain total control over all things (aka "Godhood") is to be the creator of evil (be the inspiration for and funding for terrorists, for example). The "good guys" become the "bad guys" when they choose to manipulate from both sides, the "Right" and the "Left".

They seek to be unstoppable, unconquerable, untouchably dominate. And to do that requires that they be very evil while appearing to be very good. It actually requires even more than that, but that has to be proven to them. Until then, they believe that they have the higher understanding and glory over the lowly irrelevant masses.

It is actually the Adam and Eve story eternally repeating as each era attempts to gain absolute control by "partaking in the forbidden fruit" - operating both sides against each other.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25452
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:37 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Only in modern times,

You're thinking backward, not forward.

"Patriarchy" and male domination over the family unit, developed and evolved as a response to female innate sexual value and power. That patriarchal attitudes come and go throughout history, rise and wane in power, is beside the point. The point is, the control over sexual access, is primary. Women never gave up control, despite the rise or wane of patriarchal attitudes. Even when a group or society is severely patriarchal and male-controlling (like Islam in Saudi Arabia currently), does not remove female sexual power.

Patriarchy is a compensation of value, not a replacement for it.
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Re: Government

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:39 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Only in modern times,

You're thinking backward, not forward.

"Patriarchy" and male domination over the family unit, developed and evolved as a response to female innate sexual value and power. That patriarchal attitudes come and go throughout history, rise and wane in power, is beside the point. The point is, the control over sexual access, is primary. Women never gave up control, despite the rise or wane of patriarchal attitudes. Even when a group or society is severely patriarchal and male-controlling (like Islam in Saudi Arabia currently), does not remove female sexual power.

Patriarchy is a compensation of value, not a replacement for it.

That doesn't make sense.
Before patriarchy, men and women roamed around naked, men were usually stronger than the females and could easily overpower them sexually, and could usually have whatever women they pleased, their only hinderance was other men, mates of the women, protecting their female from other men.
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Re: Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:40 pm

James S Saint wrote:I have agreed with "sometimes". But to know the problem is to know the "Devil" and "Satanism". I suspect that you do not. A part of the attempt to gain total control over all things (aka "Godhood") is to be the creator of evil (be the inspiration for and funding for terrorists, for example). The "good guys" become the "bad guys" when they choose to manipulate from both sides, the "Right" and the "Left".

They seek to be unstoppable, unconquerable, untouchably dominate. And to do that requires that they be very evil while appearing to be very good. It actually requires even more than that, but that has to be proven to them. Until then, they believe that they have the higher understanding and glory over the lowly irrelevant masses.

It is actually the Adam and Eve story eternally repeating as each era attempts to gain absolute control by "partaking in the forbidden fruit" - operating both sides against each other.

Let's cut to the chase, what is your conception and abstraction of "The Government"? What does "TG" mean to you, personally and specifically?

We already have Otto's definition, which I find lackluster, shallow, and imprecise. It doesn't say much of anything. It doesn't necessarily describe reality or the way things are occurring right now.
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Re: Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:43 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Before patriarchy, men and women roamed around naked, men were usually stronger than the females and could easily overpower them sexually, and could usually have whatever women they pleased, their only hinderance was other men, mates of the women, protecting their female from other men.

Study animals in nature.

Before humans became "civilized" (domesticated), men and women primarily acted directly in accord with instinct. Males become aroused and ready to mate based on testosterone levels, competition, and reduction of external threats. Mammals don't mate when stressed or fearing of immediate predators. They mate, generally in spring or summer time, hibernate in winter, and mate after males compete physically, violently, and form dominance hierarchies.

The most violent, feared, respectable male gets top choice, first pick of females. The lesser, subordinate males get the left overs (average and ugly women).
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Re: Government

Postby James S Saint » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:47 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Before patriarchy, men and women roamed around naked, men were usually stronger than the females and could easily overpower them sexually, and could usually have whatever women they pleased, their only hinderance was other men, mates of the women, protecting their female from other men.

The demonic activities of witchcraft, poisoning, tricking, teasing, and the like were keeping homosapien from making progress. That arena was most predominately female, the "wo-man" constantly falling to temptation to do just whatever appealed at the time. Patriarchy put a huge block against such excessive, frivolous, and criminal lack of discipline.

The female did not rule over the male in an orderly sense, but rather in an entropy sense merely preventing the male from any order at all. And that is why feminisation is being so extremely promoted today. Feminism in the masses is weakness and chaos of the masses so that "higher" agents can rule without resistance.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Government

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:55 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Before patriarchy, men and women roamed around naked, men were usually stronger than the females and could easily overpower them sexually, and could usually have whatever women they pleased, their only hinderance was other men, mates of the women, protecting their female from other men.

Study animals in nature.

Before humans became "civilized" (domesticated), men and women primarily acted directly in accord with instinct. Males become aroused and ready to mate based on testosterone levels, competition, and reduction of external threats. Mammals don't mate when stressed or fearing of immediate predators. They mate, generally in spring or summer time, hibernate in winter, and mate after males compete physically, violently, and form dominance hierarchies.

The most violent, feared, respectable male gets top choice, first pick of females. The lesser, subordinate males get the left overs (average and ugly women).

What about that contradicts anything I said?
Also, patriarchy exists in nature, apes have rules and prevent rapists from other tribes raping their females.
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Re: Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:56 pm

Is that your answer on "The Government"? I don't know if you're participating in this thread.


However, regarding your point, females mostly control hedonism (sex), which could be deemed chaotic. Males, specifically beta-males, cater to female desires and comforts. Average men (beta males) offer trades and exchanges, or directly prostitution, money for sex. Like most males offer to take a woman on a date, paying for dinner, paying for drinks, responsible for driving her around, etc.

This has been the case forever, not just modern times. When males fail in physical competition, violence, over the alpha-male position, then beta-males and lower on the hierarchy compensate with many other alternatives, such as those examples. Women are not really attracted to beta-male, but, "settle for less". The vast majority of women "settle for less(er men)" in life. The vast majority of women do not have access to the upper echelon of society. Just as the vast majority of men do not have access to beautiful, super-model women.

People innately recognize 'superior' humanity, in terms of beauty, intelligence, wealth, physical strength, athletic ability, artistic talent, etc.
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Re: Government

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:59 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:What about that contradicts anything I said?
Also, patriarchy exists in nature, apes have rules and prevent rapists from other tribes raping their females.

I said that you're looking at it backward.

Patriarchy appears in nature, mammals, apes, etc. as a response to innate female sexual value. So, technically, women are born into life "holding all the chips". Males must work for chips. Eventually when a male matures, gains some success in life, has a few sexual conquests, he gains chips ("Confidence") while women lose chips with age. Women age, lose their youthfulness and beauty, reproductive value.

When men gain enough chips, and women lose enough chips, then gender is said to be "equal" and that's when the mating occurs. Men and women both hate and despise the idea of "settling for less", or mating with inferiority (less chips).
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Re: Government

Postby James S Saint » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:00 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Let's cut to the chase, what is your conception and abstraction of "The Government"? What does "TG" mean to you, personally and specifically?

We already have Otto's definition, which I find lackluster, shallow, and imprecise. It doesn't say much of anything. It doesn't necessarily describe reality or the way things are occurring right now.

I disagree that Otto's was quite that ambiguous, but I agree that it was not definitionally precise. I don't think he was going for a definition as much as a description of the norm.

I seldom use the term "government" unless speaking of laws. I usually, and prefer, speaking of "governance", referring to all that governs the actions of people; educational norms, teachers, preachers, politicians, religions, philosophies, the weather, or whatever. The issue is one of "what is governing/limiting your behavior". And what limits, both limiting too much and too little, is a combination of many affectors.

The absolute total governance at all times is actually what the religions call "God" - your actual situation whether good, bad, or indifferent. And the aspiration of the most predominate governing people is to be the highest affectance of all life, to control the entire situation, to be God All Mighty. Yes, they are perverted and sick. But it is via their sickness that at least a very slow progress can be made. Thus homosapian survives Man, or at least until the android era wherein Man becomes nothing but machine.
Last edited by James S Saint on Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25452
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

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