Transgender military ban

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Transgender military ban

Postby Void_X_Zero » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:33 am

What is "transgender"? We should understand this before we comment on the military service ban.

If a man believes he is a woman, why does he believe this? What causes him to believe it, or feel like a woman? Does believing or feeling that one, a man, is actually a woman truly make one a woman?

How many genders are there? Two, or hundreds?

The transgender issue is a good subject for our philosophical scrutiny. I've yet to hear even one trans person, supporter, or medical or psychological professional say that simply feeling like the other gender amounts to being the other gender. Or rather, I have yet to see that implied position actually articulated and argued for.

Why ought we accept that gender means nothing more than "whatever I feel like"? A more unphilosophical, uncritical position can hardly be imagined.

If transgender is just a weird form of mental and emotional confusion fed by the leftist culture Marxist narrative, being used as a wedge issue to attack clear reasoning and emotional stability, then clearly a ban on transgender in the military makes sense. Who wants mental illness, antirationalism, hysteria, and radical leftist propaganda infecting the military?
"Siamo contenti? Son dio, ha fatto questa caricatura . . . [Are we happy? I am God, I made this caricature . . .]"

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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:36 pm

I did a google and it says there are 15000 + transgenders already in the armed forces. WTF.
that is a full 3 percent of the entire force.

What the hell has been going on?
I would always figure even in a thoroughly atrophied gene pool such berserking as transgendering would count under a tenth of a percent - on the population.
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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:40 pm

The military is paying for their operations...duh!
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Otto_West » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:09 pm

Some context.

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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Otto_West » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:13 pm

Some context.

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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:01 pm

Void_X_Zero wrote:What is "transgender"? We should understand this before we comment on the military service ban.

If a man believes he is a woman, why does he believe this? What causes him to believe it, or feel like a woman? Does believing or feeling that one, a man, is actually a woman truly make one a woman?

How many genders are there? Two, or hundreds?

The transgender issue is a good subject for our philosophical scrutiny. I've yet to hear even one trans person, supporter, or medical or psychological professional say that simply feeling like the other gender amounts to being the other gender. Or rather, I have yet to see that implied position actually articulated and argued for.

Why ought we accept that gender means nothing more than "whatever I feel like"? A more unphilosophical, uncritical position can hardly be imagined.

If transgender is just a weird form of mental and emotional confusion fed by the leftist culture Marxist narrative, being used as a wedge issue to attack clear reasoning and emotional stability, then clearly a ban on transgender in the military makes sense. Who wants mental illness, antirationalism, hysteria, and radical leftist propaganda infecting the military?


K: In your ignorant emotional, hysterical, antirational,
radical right wing propaganda infecting ILP... rant...
you should probably learn some facts....

I have family member who married someone who later decided that
they were the wrong sex and had the entire operation done...

it takes years to make the transition....you can't just wake up one
morning and decide to become something different then you were born..

it takes a couple of different psychiatric measures.. first of all,
two separate psychiatrist have to sign off, you have to live the other sex
for at least a year before they even allow you to have the operation...

so you are talking at least 2 years after making the decision before
you even get the operation and its really closer to three years...

you have family members who will argue against it and that
makes it much harder to follow through.......

so, it is a slow arduous process that takes years... so that kinda takes
out any emotionalism because it takes so long...

so how is being transgender being antirational?
how is being transgender having mental illness?
so how is being transgender mental or emotional confusion?

I submit that anyone who is "different" from you, is thought of, by you, as
having mental illness or being emotional, confused or antirational....
you are using your own state, mental or physical or emotional..
as the base line for ALL human beings... if people don't conform to
your own base line, they are wrong, mentally, physically and emotionally.....

in other words, the person who is being antirational, emotional, mental confused
is you.... just because people aren't you, doesn't mean they are wrong...
it just means they aren't you.....so really the problem with the transgender military
ban is you.....because you can't get past the idea that not everyone is you...

Kropotkin
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The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Otto_West » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:52 pm

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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Void_X_Zero » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:54 pm

Otto_West wrote:Image


Classy.
"Siamo contenti? Son dio, ha fatto questa caricatura . . . [Are we happy? I am God, I made this caricature . . .]"

--Nietzsche.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kkUzU9OiDI
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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:35 pm

The liberal-left is so insanely obsessed with "tolerance" that they want to use transgenders, nurtured and egged on by marxists, as pawns in their game.

The liberal-leftist will push his or her or its eunuch at you, and if you say "go away" to them then you're a "white supremacist neo-nazi racist sexist bigot 6,000,000 jews!!!!!!!"

It's all about muh social justice man.
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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:44 pm

SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Void_X_Zero » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:45 pm

lol.


"As Wictor explains, “transgendered people have become political props used by angry leftists attempting to destroy everything they oppose.” They were also about to cost the U.S. taxpayer heinous amounts of money – perhaps $8.4 million a year – because, thanks to legislation introduced last year by President Obama, the Defense Department was liable for the cost of the gender reassignment surgery on any soldier whose ability to serve was “adversely affected by a medical condition or medical treatment related to their gender identity.”

Not only were these transgender sensitivity policies burdening the military with unnecessary costs but they were also making it less effective. Wictor: “Talk to people who served in 2016. They’ll tell you that they spent a huge amount of time in sensitivity training seminars.”

Sensitivity training? In the military? This is not how wars are won.

But maybe the most important reason of all why it’s great is this: President Trump just did – again – what literally no other leader in the world is doing right now. He took a step towards saving Western Civilization.

I wish this were an exaggeration. I wish Western Civilization were so secure that it was quite beyond the power of the U.S. president or anyone else to shake or shore up its foundations.

The fact is, though, that Western Civilization is in the direst of trouble. We’re talking Last Days of the Roman Empire here. One of the reasons we know that Western Civilization is on its last legs is because of precisely the kind of cultural and intellectual decadence that gave us Obama’s rules on transgenders in the military, and which is also responsible for all that shrieking we’re hearing from liberals now about what a terrible thing Trump did to repeal that legislation.

No Trump did not do a terrible thing. He did the right thing. He did the only possible thing for anyone who still believes in truth, justice, social order, commonsense, decency, logic – and all the other values which have traditionally underpinned our culture and made us great.

What he just did, among other things, is reaffirm first principles.

Let’s consider the issue for a moment in its simplest terms: why do we have a military?

The military exists for the defence of the realm. That’s why people are happy to pay for it in the form of taxation: not because uniforms are spiffy or because guns are cool or because every girl loves a soldier (though of course all those things are true) but in order that they can sleep safely in their beds at night confident that they are being protected from their nation’s enemies.

Any other purpose that has been introduced into the military over the years is mission creep – often self-destructive mission creep. For example, the military is not there to help Muslims feel more “included” (Fort Hood, anyone?); nor to solve climate change; nor to help feminists to pretend that girls are just as strong and tough as men; nor, yet, to give people who are confused about their sex or “gender” a lovely warm glow of recognition and belongingness.

Nice, fluffy and cute though some of these goals may be, they should not be the concern of the military. The fact that in recent years they have become the concern of the military speaks volumes about the grip which the Cultural Marxists – the Social Justice Warriors as they are currently known – have on our culture. Really you might have hoped that the one institution which would have remained immune to SJW nonsense would have been the one whose main concern is training young men up to a peak of fitness, aggression and killing efficiency in order that they can wipe out the nation’s enemies. But nope: even the Helm’s Deep that was the U.S. military fell to the SJW hordes long ago.

What President Trump has just done is taken a vital first step towards reclaiming it for the forces of civilization.

And this matters, it really does. Compare and contrast Trump’s fearless rejection of the transgender movement’s political agenda with the recent announcement by the UK Government’s Equalities Minister (!) Justine Greening that in future people in Britain should be free to decide their own “gender” regardless of medical opinion or what it says on their birth certificate.

As I argue in more detail here Greening’s move is the final nail in the coffin of the Conservative party in Britain. In the guise of “moving with the times” and “reaching out to the young” and “making marginalised minorities feel more comfortable in their skin” what it is in fact doing is rejecting one of the most basic tenets of Western Civilization. Indeed, it’s a flat out rejection of reality.

There are, needless to say, lots of other practical reasons why allowing people legally to decide their own gender is a terrible idea: the destructive effect on women’s sport; the constraints it will inevitably place on the freedom of speech of the many of us who, quite rightly, think this is an SJW bridge too far; the mind-warping effects it’s going to have on the impressionable children who no doubt are going to be exposed to this post-modern guff as part of their ‘education’.

But the worst thing of all, as far as I can see, is that it capriciously, irresponsibly and unnecessarily rejects one of the most basic truths of nature: that there are men and there are women; that we are identifiably different. For me this is one of those pivotal moments in the decline of western civilisation. The barbarians are at the gate and here’s Justine Greening pushing the doors wide open: ‘C’mon in guys, gals —or however you want to define yourselves! The city is all yours. Or is that zirs?’

When socialist governments introduce legislation like that, you tend to roll your eyes, shrug your shoulders and mutter to yourself: “Well at least a conservative government will be along shortly to clean up the mess, as they always do.” But when this planned legislation comes from your own team – a notionally conservative government – then you know it’s game over. This, I know, is a problem right now which is exasperating conservatives not just in Britain but in pretty much all the western countries in the world that aren’t the United States.

What Donald Trump is doing right now is that good, that important. He has his work cut out, not just because he has so many enemies in the mainstream media, on the left generally, as well as within the GOP, but because his predecessors – Obama especially – made sure to salt the earth and poison the wells before he came into the White House.

But the size of the obstacles facing him just make the scale of what he has achieved and what he will achieve even more impressive.

President Trump isn’t, as the liberals would have us believe, picking on innocent transgender people. He is simply defending the values that have made us great and which, if he succeeds – as, pray God, he must – will make us great again."
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... hing-ever/


In addition I will simply add that there is no such thing as "transgender". There are two genders, this is biological and based on chromosomes. If a person thinks they are the other gender, that's a mental health issue. You can change your gender expression and flout gender norms, that's one thing, but you can't change your gender.

And no, just because a man "really feels like a woman on the inside" doesn't actually make him a woman.

What disgusting, debased low have we sunk to that people are actually convinced "feeling like a woman" makes you really a woman? Utter madness.
"Siamo contenti? Son dio, ha fatto questa caricatura . . . [Are we happy? I am God, I made this caricature . . .]"

--Nietzsche.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kkUzU9OiDI
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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:50 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:The liberal-left is so insanely obsessed with "tolerance" that they want to use transgenders, nurtured and egged on by marxists, as pawns in their game.

The liberal-leftist will push his or her or its eunuch at you, and if you say "go away" to them then you're a "white supremacist neo-nazi racist sexist bigot 6,000,000 jews!!!!!!!"

It's all about muh social justice man.


K: the only word there that actually does describe Liberals is justice, of which
being tolerant is part of justice....if you don't understand that liberals are about
justice, then you don't understand liberals at all.... and as you don't even know yourself,
I know you don't even understand liberals.........Liberals are just a punching bag for your
hate and anger.. once you learn to like yourself, you will like and understand liberals far
better.......

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Otto_West » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:51 pm

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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Void_X_Zero » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:53 pm

There is a woman who really really believes she is actually a cat. She crawls around on all fours and meows. Look it up.

There is a middle aged man who really really believes he is a little girl. He wears dresses and take like a little girl. Look it up.

The Regressive Left would have you think those people are right. They really are those things. Haha.

This is all petulant childish leftism at its finest: "we want reality to be what we really really want it to be!"

Children crying because the world doesn't conform to their silly fantasies.
"Siamo contenti? Son dio, ha fatto questa caricatura . . . [Are we happy? I am God, I made this caricature . . .]"

--Nietzsche.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kkUzU9OiDI
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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Otto_West » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:54 pm

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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Otto_West » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:55 pm

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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Otto_West » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:57 pm

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Last edited by Otto_West on Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:57 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:K: the only word there that actually does describe Liberals is justice, of which
being tolerant is part of justice....if you don't understand that liberals are about
justice, then you don't understand liberals at all.... and as you don't even know yourself,
I know you don't even understand liberals.........Liberals are just a punching bag for your
hate and anger.. once you learn to like yourself, you will like and understand liberals far
better.......

Kropotkin

No no... if you were a liberal then you wouldn't support using other people as pawns for your own schemes. Do average liberal-leftists honestly care about the people they claim to care about? Do you actually care about "transgender people", or merely use the issue as a hot-button to attack fascist nazism and conservative-rightism?

I would guess, that if you truly "cared about transgender people" then you would try to stop them from mutilating their genitals in the first place. I would also guess, that liberals would step into matters, when a neighbor, a single mother, tells her only child, her son that it's "okay to be a girl", to dress like a girl, or worse...

That's not "Justice" at all. It's wrong. It's Injustice. It's Unjust.
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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Void_X_Zero » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:58 pm

Patient: "doctor, I just really really feel like a cat on the inside!"

Doctor: "well congratulations, you're a cat!"


^ what's wrong with this picture?
"Siamo contenti? Son dio, ha fatto questa caricatura . . . [Are we happy? I am God, I made this caricature . . .]"

--Nietzsche.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kkUzU9OiDI
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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Otto_West » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:15 pm

United States to the world: Our country is collapsing and the world stage is also but we must do everything we can to protect our most cherished special protected class of transgendered folks, they are god's gift to the entire world.
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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:24 pm

Void_X_Zero wrote:Patient: "doctor, I just really really feel like a cat on the inside!"

Doctor: "well congratulations, you're a cat!"


^ what's wrong with this picture?


Dr. Schrodinger didn't take the time to examine to see if it was a cat or not.lol
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby encode_decode » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:29 pm

    Funny

    Arcturus Descending wrote:Dr. Schrodinger didn't take the time to examine to see if it was a cat or not. lol

    :lol:
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      Re: Transgender military ban

      Postby Void_X_Zero » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:35 pm

      Why make fun of the issue? Sure, you can laugh, but why not also take it seriously? It is a very serious issue.

      Kids are taking hormone replacement and stifling the natural development of their bodies, or having their genitals cut off (irreversible damage to the body). People are being told that they get to be whatever they want, so long as they say they "really really" believe it. The world is upside down.

      Transgender ideology is a further attempt to destroy our ability to see reality, to call a spade a spade -- to trust our own eyes and our own reason. This isn't a laughing matter.

      Suicide rates are very high for transgender people. It isn't because they "aren't allowed to be who they really are", this also applies to post-op trannies. There is even a medicine that successfully gets rid of transgender feelings, this was back when transgender was rightly recognized as a mental health problem. American pediatricians have come out strongly against teaching transgenderism to kids or allowing hormones and surgeries, because they see the damage this does.

      We need to be helping the people who suffer these deep delusions, not encouraging them. If your kid believed he could fly by jumping from a building, would you encourage him to try it? If your kid believed he was really a cat, would you tell him he might be right?

      Anyone who coddles the transgender disease is doing far more harm to these people. These people are victims of a mental disorder, a delusion. They deserve our sympathy and our help.
      "Siamo contenti? Son dio, ha fatto questa caricatura . . . [Are we happy? I am God, I made this caricature . . .]"

      --Nietzsche.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kkUzU9OiDI
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      Re: Transgender military ban

      Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:40 pm

      Void_X_Zero

      Why make fun of the issue? Sure, you can laugh, but why not also take it seriously? It is a very serious issue.


      I do not make fun of the issue. It is a real one. You are the one who made the attempt at humor.


      Anyone who coddles the transgender disease is doing far more harm to these people. These people are victims of a mental disorder, a delusion. They deserve our sympathy and our help.


      Transgender disease? What makes you think that it is a disease, just because you do not understand, most do not understand it. We do not walk in the shoes of those who experience it. I would say that the jury is still out about it being a disease as you say.
      We presume to know everything because we know so little about something.

      Mental disorder? So everything not understood is a mental disorder. How do you that nature doesn't mess up and that someone born a male or female was not was not to become one?

      Tell me, for what possible reason would someone want to go through everything which they have to to become the opposite sex? Why? Do you think it would be a simple thing of being fearful of being gay otherwise? If they change, voila, they won't be gay.
      Would it be simply that they do not like the gender that was given them?

      The bottom line is that we can't so much about this yet we condemn. Being sympathetic doesn't necessarily mean that you are not condemning. You are also not trying to understand.


      Yes, you're right. They do deserve compassion and understanding.
      Last edited by Arcturus Descending on Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
      SAPERE AUDE!


      If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


      What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

      Thomas Nagel


      I learn as I write!
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      Re: Transgender military ban

      Postby encode_decode » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:41 pm

        Void_X_Zero

        Void_X_Zero wrote:Why make fun of the issue? Sure, you can laugh, but why not also take it seriously? It is a very serious issue.

        Making fun helps me keep my sanity. And I do laugh, however I do take it seriously. I agree these things are serious enough to talk about.

        My stance is that we should not be messing with the natural course of things. I have been enjoying this thread as it has progressed.
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