Transgender military ban

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Re: Transgender military ban

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:54 pm

encode_decode wrote:
    Void_X_Zero

    Void_X_Zero wrote:Why make fun of the issue? Sure, you can laugh, but why not also take it seriously? It is a very serious issue.

    Making fun helps me keep my sanity. And I do laugh, however I do take it seriously. I agree these things are serious enough to talk about.

    My stance is that we should not be messing with the natural course of things. I have been enjoying this thread as it has progressed.


      Hello, encode_decode, :mrgreen:

      Define natural?
      Is cancer natural?
      Was the holocaust natural?

      Racism may be natural to many but is that also something which we ought not to be *messing around with*?
      How would you feel if you, being in the body of a man, which you are, lol wanted more than anything else in the world, to be in the body of a woman?
      How could you even know the answer to that because you can't experience it?
      SAPERE AUDE!


      If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


      What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

      Thomas Nagel


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      Re: Transgender military ban

      Postby encode_decode » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:05 pm

        Mr List wonders whether you are messing with him . . .

        Arcturus Descending wrote:Hello, encode_decode, :mrgreen:

        Define natural? -------------------- Untouched
        Is cancer natural? ---------------- I think so - I cannot be 100% certain though
        Was the holocaust natural? ---- No!

        Racism may be natural to many but is that also something which we ought not to be *messing around with*? Hmm . . . I am not racist - let me think about it . . .
        How would you feel if you, being in the body of a man, which you are, lol wanted more than anything else in the world, to be in the body of a woman?
        How could you even know the answer to that because you can't experience it?

        I am not sure how I would feel - I have never been in that position . . . You can not know the answer to that if you can't experience it . . .

        What I want to know however is how it came to be the case in the first place whereby people diverge from the natural order . . .

        :-k
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          Re: Transgender military ban

          Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:15 pm

          encode_decode

          Mr List wonders whether you are messing with him . . .


          Define *messing*? lol
          I can't even be sure if I am messing with you. Well, perhaps I am both messing and being serious at the same time.


          I am not sure how I would feel - I have never been in that position . . . You can not know the answer to that if you can't experience it . . .


          Exactly, and I am not saying that the next words are about you but why then do we judge people who want sex changes or have had them?
          We all better watch out if there is such a thing as Reincarnation. Who knows what we will become in our next lives if that is the case?lol
          At least that's a much better teacher and way of evolution than is the concept of hell.



          What I want to know however is how it came to be the case in the first place whereby people diverge from the natural order . . .
          [/quote]
          I don't know. I'm not so smart. But how do we know what is the natural order? The only natural order which we know is that which we believe to be the natural order.
          Just like many believe that homosexuality is an abomination to their God and oh so unnatural. How do we know? How can we know?

          How do we know into what we shall evolve at some point.
          Do you think that nature never makes mistakes?
          SAPERE AUDE!


          If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


          What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

          Thomas Nagel


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          Re: Transgender military ban

          Postby encode_decode » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:21 pm

            Arcturus Descending

            It is a complex issue - to be sure - politics can be a dirty game too . . .

            Arcturus Descending wrote:Exactly, and I am not saying that the next words are about you but why then do we judge people who want sex changes or have had them?
            We all better watch out if there is such a thing as Reincarnation. Who knows what we will become in our next lives if that is the case?


            What I want to know however is how it came to be the case in the first place whereby people diverge from the natural order . . .

            I don't know. I'm not so smart. But how do we know what is the natural order? The only natural order which we know is that which we believe to be the natural order.
            Just like many believe that homosexuality is an abomination to their God and oh so unnatural. How do we know? How can we know?

            How do we know into what we shall evolve at some point.
            Do you think that nature never makes mistakes?

            I will think about most of what you say here - only to say that - yes, I do think nature makes mistakes . . .

            :-k
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              - which is to say there is always meaning.

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              Re: Transgender military ban

              Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:27 pm

              encode_decode wrote:
                Arcturus Descending

                It is a complex issue - to be sure - politics can be a dirty game too . . .

                Arcturus Descending wrote:Exactly, and I am not saying that the next words are about you but why then do we judge people who want sex changes or have had them?
                We all better watch out if there is such a thing as Reincarnation. Who knows what we will become in our next lives if that is the case?


                What I want to know however is how it came to be the case in the first place whereby people diverge from the natural order . . .

                I don't know. I'm not so smart. But how do we know what is the natural order? The only natural order which we know is that which we believe to be the natural order.
                Just like many believe that homosexuality is an abomination to their God and oh so unnatural. How do we know? How can we know?

                How do we know into what we shall evolve at some point.
                Do you think that nature never makes mistakes?

                I will think about most of what you say here - only to say that - yes, I do think nature makes mistakes . . .

                :-k


                I now rest my case!
                :angelic-blueglow: :angelic-blueglow:
                SAPERE AUDE!


                If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


                What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

                Thomas Nagel


                I learn as I write!
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby UrGod » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:37 pm

                Arcturus Descending wrote:Void_X_Zero

                Why make fun of the issue? Sure, you can laugh, but why not also take it seriously? It is a very serious issue.


                I do not make fun of the issue. It is a real one. You are the one who made the attempt at humor.


                I'll accept that without knowing what you are referring to.

                Anyone who coddles the transgender disease is doing far more harm to these people. These people are victims of a mental disorder, a delusion. They deserve our sympathy and our help.


                Transgender disease? What makes you think that it is a disease, just because you do not understand, most do not understand it.


                I do understand it. You are born either a male or female, XX or XY. This is biological fact. Above this, you have gender identity which includes social norms, gender expression and sexual preference. These latter can be open to change, and only loosely map onto biological sex, but they do map onto it, and for good reason.

                If someone believes they are a cat, are you willing to call that a delusion? Of course. If a man believes he is a little girl, are you willing to call that a delusion? Of course. So why are you unwilling to call transgender as such a delusion? Tell me where the difference is between on the one hand the case of the woman who thinks she is a cat or the man who thinks he is a small girl, and on the other hand a man who thinks he is a woman or a woman who thinks she is a man. What is the logical, real difference between these?

                We do not walk in the shoes of those who experience it. I would say that the jury is still out about it being a disease as you say.
                We presume to know everything because we know so little about something.

                Mental disorder? So everything not understood is a mental disorder.


                False reasoning. I do understand it, but even if I did not, that would not prove that it isn't a mental disorder. I am claiming it is a delusion, which is specific psychological term. "A delusion is a belief that is held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception".

                The "transgender" person harbors the idea that they are not the biological sex they really are. That is a delusion, for the same reason that if you were to believe you are a cat, or a small child, or a firetruck, that too would be a delusion.

                Why do you not have any pity for these deeply delusional people?

                How do you that nature doesn't mess up and that someone born a male or female was not was not to become one?


                Nature did mess up, in the case of transgender people. Just as it messed up in the case of schizophrenic people. "Nature messed up" is exactly what I am saying. Delusions do not appear in a vacuum, they always have a specific etiology that can be traced to a combination of neurological problems and exposure to bad/incorrect ideas.

                Tell me, for what possible reason would someone want to go through everything which they have to to become the opposite sex? Why? Do you think it would be a simple thing of being fearful of being gay otherwise? If they change, voila, they won't be gay.
                Would it be simply that they do not like the gender that was given them?


                Why does a schizophrenic go through the difficulty of changing their life, relationships, jobs, and outlook on the world for the sake of their delusions? Because they do not know it is a delusion, they think it is real. The same applies to transgender people, they actually really really believe they are not the sex which they actually are. And on top of that, liberal-leftist ideology (souldeath) has convinced them it is proper that if we "really really believe" something then of course it must be true, all facts to the contrary.

                The bottom line is that we can't so much about this yet we condemn. Being sympathetic doesn't necessarily mean that you are not condemning. You are also not trying to understand.


                I will condemn any serious mental illness of delusion that harms people. Why won't you?

                Yes, you're right. They do deserve compassion and understanding.


                Glad you agree.
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby Otto_West » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:00 am

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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby A Shieldmaiden » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:06 am

                Obscene.
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby surreptitious57 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:26 am

                The fundamental question here is do mentally competent adults have the moral right to change their body in any way that they want to? Now if you
                answer no then where do you draw the line and why should you get to decide on something that does not impact upon you at all? I think any one who
                is a mentally competent adult should as a matter of principle be free to decide for themselves. I do not however think that a man who identifies as a
                woman is a woman and vice versa. Since a post op male to female transgender has no ovaries or vagina or clitoris and without those they cannot be a
                biological woman. Equally a post op female to male transgender has no penis or testicles or sperm and without those they cannot be a biological man
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby UrGod » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:37 am

                You are still a biological man if you castrate yourself and take hormones to grow breasts. Despite that merely cosmetic stuff, you haven't altered your chromosomes.
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby UrGod » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:07 pm

                It's utterly baffling to me people don't get this. Are you really so stupid, to be fooled by a man in a dress and makeup who cuts off his dick? You think that is a woman? Really?

                Goddamnit, how fucking brainless are you?
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby UrGod » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:30 pm

                The "transgender" issue is really a (not so) subtle attempt to weaken our ability to see reality and care about facts. That is all it is.

                It isn't a social justice frontier, it isn't about discrimination or equal rights. It is about making sure people cannot know, or cannot say they know, that a spade is a spade. Orwellian cultural Marxism at work.

                If the wet embraces this lie of transgender, then the west forfeits its right to exist, and will soon cease to exist just as Rome did at the height of its own and similar embrace of obvious irrationality and obvious decadence.
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby UrGod » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:32 pm

                Who would have thought making a basic statement of fact such as 'there are two genders, male and female' would be controversial? In some countries such as Canada, you can actually go to jail for saying it.
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:04 pm

                Void_X_Zero wrote:Who would have thought making a basic statement of fact such as 'there are two genders, male and female' would be controversial? In some countries such as Canada, you can actually go to jail for saying it.



                K: and your evidence for going to jail in Canada for saying there are only two genders?

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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby UrGod » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:14 pm

                Feel free to educate yourself, rather than assign homework to others because you're too lazy to type four words into google.
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby James S Saint » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:14 pm

                Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
                Else
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby Otto_West » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:13 pm

                Your entire world of fantasy and make believe is doomed, have a nice day.
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby Arminius » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:16 am

                James S Saint wrote:

                Here you can see the practice of the negative side of democracy: ochlocracy.

                The Canadians have already learned a lot of ochlocratic skills.

                Hats off! :wink:

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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby surreptitious57 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:27 am

                One should as a matter of decency address someone by their preferred pronoun but one should equally not feel compelled to do so if one does not wish to and
                for whatever reason. And denial of liberty should definitely not be the price to pay for refusing to do so. I am not Canadian but if I were I would definitely sign
                the petition. The bill has no place in a liberal democracy. None at all
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby surreptitious57 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:43 am

                Avoiding jail time while not bothering to learn any new words that might otherwise guarantee your liberty is possible by simply using they instead of more
                preferred terms. It is non gender specific and can be used as both a singular and plural pronoun and is already in use and so ticks all of the relevant boxes
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:45 pm

                I am of the gender Lord, which is plural.
                my pronouns are your highness, their highness, and these are accompanied with monetary gifts of a worth over a bitcoin.
                So poor people that talk to me are fucking racists.

                Im so angry right now.

                Fucking poor people.
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby UrGod » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:33 pm

                Fixed Cross wrote:I am of the gender Lord, which is plural.
                my pronouns are your highness, their highness, and these are accompanied with monetary gifts of a worth over a bitcoin.
                So poor people that talk to me are fucking racists.

                Im so angry right now.

                Fucking poor people.


                Haha. And thanks to bill C16 you could now legally sue those transphobic racists, once this legal structure spreads to the west as a whole, which it will. Cheers.
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby WendyDarling » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:07 am

                That SJW vs. Peterson vid. was hard to watch. The SJW's only see their picture, not the big picture and that is both scary and sad.
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                Re: Transgender military ban

                Postby UrGod » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:16 am

                WendyDarling wrote:That SJW vs. Peterson vid. was hard to watch. The SJW's only see their picture, not the big picture and that is both scary and sad.


                SJW is a mental disorder.
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