Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Is Europe dying?

  • Yes.
  • No.
  • I’m too uninformed to know what you’re even talking about.
0 voters

What has happened to Europe? “No nations, no borders” so-called ANTIFA (real fascists) are essentially an army now. Granted this is Germany we are talking about, so yeah… maybe the worst of Europe. But also a litmus test, a barometer, and writing on the wall for the rest of you Europeans.

Paris had similarly bad riots recently. I’m barely informed about this stuff and even I know this much. I can’t imagine the shit that is going on I’m not even aware of.

Do you Europeans really want to sacrifice yourselves like this? All for cheap identity politics and to virtue signal so no one ever calls you a “fascist”?

“Hey everyone who doesn’t hate capitalism and libertarians and traditional western values and legal freedom of speech is a Nazi!”

Um, what?

I highly recommend educating yourself on what’s been going on.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05slPcJ0s0I[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p_lPjDXdM0[/youtube]

Yep, “Antifa” aren’t Nazis at all. Lol.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8437JUSekE[/youtube]

Why the fuck do Europeans tolerate this shit?

This is not just confined to Europe so to characterise it as a European problem only is misleading and factually inaccurate
As they also operate in America and more so too since Trump became president and will continue to do so as long as he is

I didnt mislead anything. I didn’t even talk about American Antifa, which is a whole separate issue. And clearly you didn’t even watch the video I posted where they talk about how European Antifa is so much worse than American Antifa.

Why don’t you try opening your fucking brain like in your quote, before you speak next time?


I will watch them all when I can because this stuff actually matters

Void, are you from Infowars or something? Just curious.

You sound very libertarian.

I’m not from Infowars and I’m generally apathetic towards them. The couple good people they have over there balance out the craziness of Alex Jones, so I say the place is sort of split between useful and useless.

I don’t call myself labels like libertarian. I simply assert what I believe to be true. Labeling yourself and others gets you in trouble philosophically speaking. The small gain politically in labeling like that is bigly offset by the losses to the quality of thought and discourse.

When talking politics, rather than define ourselves and each other by labels, we should define ourselves and others by listing the three or four of our most important politically-relevant ideas. And be able to explain and argue for them.

Labels are fine just as long as one clearly defines them but if one
chooses not to have them then others will only label you anyway

That video is a fake.

I visited Hamburg yesterday.

The demonstrations against G7 or G20 are demonstrations against the globalism. And they are violent in every Western country.

If you want to see burning suburbs without any G7 or G20 demonstration, then go to France where suburbs burn every day.

G7 or G20 events are no argument at all for saying “the end of …”.

And by the way: It is more likely that the end of the Western world will come slowly.

Everything that has become is transient. Our Western plutocracy too. It is already fading. According to Oswald A. G. Spengler the plutocrats and its supporters - the democrats - will be defeated by the Caesars. And if our Western culture will not have any Caesar, then the plutocrats themselves will become the Caesars. The Caesarism is unavoidable according to Spengler. So the only alternative to that is the “sudden death” (by a huge catastrophe for example) of the whole culture. But are you seeing that catastrophe at the moment? :wink:

Same should go for talking about philosophy, but there are just too many varieties, and no one likes to be called by a number.

True

I’ve seen plenty of other videos and interviews corroborating the violence. You must have been in a different part of the city.

No.

I think you do not know the place of that said demonstration.

As you have demonstrated on other threads, you do not understand the degree of lying that is going on; “Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see.” Even back in the 90’s, altering which car won the race (via video editing) was trivial. Today, public deception is a new-wave political methodology - just privately ask any politician.

… And frankly, the smoke did look fake. How would anyone really know without going there?

"German Special Police Forces (SEK) Saxony chief Sven Mewes described the harrowing police experience at the Hamburg G20 summit last week saying he had never seen such a level of violence directed toward police officers.
The SEK head said that the protesters intended to do as much harm as possible to the police in general and although his initial mission was to be on standby for potential terror attacks his unit had to be called in to help with the escalating violence. Mewes said that the violence he witnessed from the protestors, was “unbelievable” German broadcaster N24 reports (mobil.n-tv.de/politik/Dann-war-S … 34632.html)

Describing the events of the days and nights of “Welcome to Hell” protest which involved thousands of far-left extremists Mewes said, “from what I’ve seen, this was no longer a demonstration. This was much more advanced. I have been a police officer for over 30 years, I have never experienced such violence.”

Mewes justified the deployment of the special anti-terror squad saying, “that is why, for us, this was not a tactic against protesters, but against both criminals, and potential criminals who have tried to harm both police officers and the population in both life and limb – possibly even in a life-threatening manner.”

“The main task of special units is the rescue of endangered human life. And that is exactly what we did at the moment.”

The SEK groups, who worked with their Austrian equivalent CORBA, were tasked with reclaiming rooftops occupied by left-wing extremists who were throwing bricks and other objects at riot police.

The extremists on the roofs offered no resistance to the SEK teams according to Mewes. “Altogether we searched six or seven houses. There were, according to my remarks, 13 arrests,” he said.

The SEK chief also described many onlookers who were taping the violence on their mobile phones and said some of them even cheered on and encouraged further violence against the police. “This was a totally bizarre situation, absolutely unbelievable,” he said.

Almost 500 police officers were injured during the G20 riots, some with severe injuries like a fractured skull. The area in which the protests occurred also saw a massive wave of property damage where many cars were set on fire including various police vehicles and many shops were looted.

Before the riots, many shops are said to have paid protection money to extremist groups avoid damage and looting. Many shops paid 20 euros or more for a poster which signalled support for the extremists in return for protection.
breitbart.com/london/2017/07 … ever-seen/

Yeah, nothing to see here.

Black Blocks are anarchists (hence they dress in black) and anti-, well, -globalism and -capitalism for sure, yet anti- in general, and they can’t go any further. I guess they belong to a galaxy that calls itself “antagonist mouvements”.
They are violent against property and anyone who tries to stop their vandalism, but not against people per se. Actually, the only people I saw beaten in the footage you posted were the protesters. They fling rocks or bricks to the police, break shop windows, torch cars, don’t use firearms.
Note that, although vandals, they are not looters. It may not make them less despicable, surely some petty thefts were committed, but to their credit looting is not their policy.
This is not exactly what happened in England and Wales in 2011, when a much more colorful crew, with a less pronounced political profile, massively indulged their consumerism, especially in the form of tech gadgets, home appliances and clothes, if I remember well. I guess something similar takes place in the U.S. from time to time. Surely that is more spontaneous, but it does not really look preferable to me.

Your “sources” are evidently biased, it does not make them wrong, but neither it makes them reliable.

Sacrifice? I wish someone could say that.
In fact Europeans have “sacrificed” themselves a long time ago already. Probably since 1917, and definitely since Summer '45. But ‘sacrifice’ is too noble a word for people that are dithering, while being ‘comfortably numb’… It’s not tolerance, it’s apathy vested as civic virtue. I am not surprised at all some by-standers were cheering at confrontations between police and rioters. I guess they were not really aware of what they were doing, it was more like watching a porn clip.

There is an upside, nations are disappearing.
Fictional nations are taking the scene, and the fiction goes on by staging a struggle for survival between then. In reality everything is lost already. Europeans are steadily approaching their extinction - and it happens for a reason, which is not conspiracy. Spengler saw it coming, the reference is most germane, and he died long before the first black block was born.
Europeans invented the idea of nation and of nation-state. Now, for the first time after the Roman Empire, Europe might find itself bereft of nations. Consequently, it is time to dismantle also the concept of state. If God is already dead, now it can well be the turn of the state, which is nothing else but “the march of God in the world”, Hegel said.
That said, a new Europe may replace the old one. If that ever happens, surely Black Blocks can claim no merit for it. On the contrary, they are damn useful to perpetuate the status quo.
Yet the notion of ‘status quo’ is no longer really applicable and it becomes every day more necessary to dismiss the worn-out historical categories used until now. Time can fly straight as an arrow, but history is more hyperbolic. It is clear that there is an ever increasing acceleration that is puzzling for most of us. Cherishing a still present or a mythological past is just delusional - and hypocrite.

I saw no inaccuracy of information reported in the article that I cited. If no looting occurred, then this fact (assuming it is relevant) was omitted or ignored or not noticed by those who wrote the article. Meanwhile many police were injured by black bloc members, some severely. Similar Antifa riots in France and the USA have shown extreme violence toward police, leading to many injuries. There is plenty of footage on youtube of Antifa gangs throwing rocks and bricks and even firebombs at both civilians and police in places like Berkeley, CA or Paris, France.

On the contrary, I think it is precisely a sacrifice, although indeed as you allude to not a noble one. A noble sacrifice would be one thing, but this one is indeed more… dithering, as you say, and the sacrifice is occurring to the postmodern gods of Tolerance and No-Thinking (“virtue signaling”). These new gods have taken psychic hold of at least a sizable number of the European people, and these same people are choosing to sacrifice their societies, their culture, their families, their friends, their future and their own lives in the name of these gods. It is indeed a sacrifice, and a not entirely unconscious one at that. In other words, they know what they are doing and why they are doing it, and many of them hate themselves for the cowardice it implies, but they feel stuck and unable to do otherwise. Just like the fear before an almighty god, they are not free to act what to them appears to be truth. Their instincts tell them one thing, their ‘social instinct’ another and their own body and speech, as they watch in horror, always follows the ‘social instinct’. A few more courageous people choose their actual instinct over artificial-socially constructed fear and sycophantism.

Then you will need to explain what the world or at least Europe will look like when nation states have disappeared, and why you consider that an “upside”. Hegel was not correct to equate the state with the march of God in the world; while that can certainly be one interpretation and often applicable, it isn’t a definitional case, certainly not exhaustive of what it really means to have a nation and a state in a logical or ontological sense; and as Heidegger said, only a god can save us, which on par with Hegel’s own level here is a direct repudiation of the implication that the nation state ought to disappear, especially if you factor in the insights of people like Jung as to what “god” really means.

I find a lot of mindless proponents of globalism on here, and elsewhere, parroting quasi-consciously about how evil nation states are and how glorious the coming global (communist) utopia will be. I will refrain from putting you into this category on the assumption that you can defend your above statements.

As for “Cherishing a still present or a mythological past is just delusional - and hypocrite”, this is not at all true. The past is what gives the present meaning, and what provides the grounding for future expectation. Mythology runs far deeper than mere delusion and fantasy. Jung points out that the archetypes of the collective unconscious manifest themselves as both symbols and allegories, in the case of symbols as immediate expressions of truths manifested as living human experience and insight, as an inexhaustible and arational mediation synthesis between the much larger unconscious sphere that surrounds the much smaller conscious sphere, and in the case of allegories is a kind of progressive transitioning and transformation of existing knowledge away from the purely mythological metaphysical and toward the more strictly objective, rational-factual. In this latter case, as with what has happened with Christianity, the symbols start to break down and war in their oppositional characters as the broader structure in which those symbols had existed is fragmented apart, this fragmentation being the result of the fact that people realize they do not think about the symbols anymore and have nothing to say about them. The Virgin Mary, the Trinity, the Divinity of Jesus, Heaven and Hell, Eden… when modern man realized these ideas were empty to him, when he could recall and interact with the idea and no amount of depth ensued as a result, no questions, no passion, no mystery, then those symbols lost their structural cohesion.

As Jung also points out, when this happens then new symbols are sought as means of representing the archetypal knowledge upon which human psychology are based. The Christians search for it in the Eastern religions, and the Easterners search for it in the Christian religion, for example.

We can overcome the specific mythological structures but that leads only to an even more fervent and desperate search for meaning, for symbols with which to express the deeper truths that comprise us psychologically and socially. In so far as scientific and philosophical ideas are purely intellectual and lack ‘spirit’, lack wisdom and depth, lack personality and gravitas, those ideas will be inadequate to act as new symbols in the new symbolic order and man will continue to stumble forward toward the meaningless, analytic superficial, postmodernist horror of death that awaits him. That seems to be what you are advocating, is it not?

The old Europe went out with the ancien regime, every sign since then has pointed to it. The old architecture will one day also disappear, visually the past will not be revisited, even by aesthetes. They will be reminders to some literary footnotes.

Politically, as the French Oresidents sudden embrace of Trump shows, by inviting him to Bastille Day, presents a feeling by France of her tenacity to hold on to some of the cultural signs.

It is truly an enigma, that globalism may yet enclose a new revival of the Roman Empire, bereft of its Middle Aged religious fervor.

Economic materialism and civic nationalism trying to fill in the void of lost identity.