Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

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Is Europe dying?

Yes.
6
60%
No.
4
40%
I'm too uninformed to know what you're even talking about.
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 10

Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Otto_West » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:36 pm

Political leftism and progressivism is pure economic materialism, it is the material dialectic at work.
Your entire world of fantasy and make believe is doomed, have a nice day.
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Void_X_Zero » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:03 pm

Valuing one's own society and culture, which includes genetic ancestral lineage but is not defined by that alone, more than other societies and cultures isn't "racism", it isn't based on hate of others who are different. It is based on in group preference which is quite rational when not taken to extremes.

Know what is coming next, from the leftist multicultural Marxist "utopian"? Familism and childism, namely the idea that if you value your own family over other families, or value your own children over other children, you are a bigoted and evil "fascist".

These crazy Marxists are confused about the simple fact that to value one thing more than another doesn't mean you hate the other. But facts and logic never stopped them from trying to enact the communist wet dream-- too bad if it actually gets here these "revolutionary" useful idiots will be the first to be purged by the new State.
"Siamo contenti? Son dio, ha fatto questa caricatura . . . [Are we happy? I am God, I made this caricature . . .]"

--Nietzsche.

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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:45 pm

attano wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:All EU countries are typically ruled or co-ruled by Socialist parties.They don't always carry the term, but their policies are invariably relentlessly top down regulative of peoples morals and money.

This is about all I could find (so far). There is a map of the situation at the beginning of 2017. In the meantime, France's Socialist Party has imploded and is no longer in government.
You are right that many parties that don't call themselves Socialist or Communist are nevertheless Left or Centre-Left. Clearly that applies to Social-Democrats or Labourists. These have severed or never had links with Real Socialism as historically has been seen in Europe, and quite generally are minority members of coalitions. I maintain that their presence does not qualifies those governments as 'leftist'. But that, ultimately, depends on where you draw the line. If anything that is not Lepen or Wilders (who, by the way, has an Indonesian mother) is leftist, including parties belonging to ALDE or PPE, then, OK, your statement can't be objected.

Hi Attano

This is not true for the country where I am from, the Netherlands. The Social Democratic Party has had close ties even to Maoist China, and what is eft of their constituency after their recent implosion is still hard line Socialist. But it is true that the VVD, the party that finally managed to harm them after an uninterrupted thriving of many decades, is not traditionally leftist, it is only pro EU and pro-institution, pro-state, pro-top-down regulation. To my mind, this is all leftist, as rightist to my mind would be favouring small government. But this doesn't really exist in Europe.

Note that by these standards, Hitler is leftist as well, which I think is correct, as he was a statist and the opposite of an individualist.

So Id like to reaffirm the terms as designating favouring big vs small state, privacy vs "security", self-determination vs commune-ism.

Fixed Cross wrote:This is precisely why Europe has turned into an intellectual ghost world. There is only "Care", which means prevention of freedom.


Generally, I find these non-leftist parties not so intellectually conspicuous. They have proved to be unable to elaborate models that are not helpless remakes of past formulas that today translate only into isolationism. Not even Switzerland does that. And "care" was anything but absent in fascist regimes. But, OK, I guess you mean something else. Nevertheless, I suspect that leftist intellectuals would claim that the ghost world began exactly when they lost the upper hand, roughly since the eighties. Personally I believe that this claim shows very well why they lost the upper hand, together with the bottomless hubris of self-styling themselves as the only possible dignified thinkers, but it does not mean they are entirely wrong.

Agreed. When the liberalization and privatization began in the Netherlands late 80s and when it pushed through late 90s, the country basically died. I have to agree.

Fixed Cross wrote:Italy and France are typically robustly Communist. Holland has been ruled by the proudly Socialist PvdA since after WWII. All of Scandinavia is Socialist, isn't it?

As for the latin 'Communists', I believe you are being too kind. The parties in themselves deserved indeed some respect until a generation ago, the old leaders were tough, rough yet decent people. Not their voters... These are the same who now engulf the ballots with votes for the populists. They have never seen politics and their parties as anything but lobbing, a way to reap a lot of "care" for themselves, while being dispensed of any care for their communities and their very sons (which, by the way, the begot only seldom). This is where I think you mistake Socialism for something else. Socialism was then (because no longer is), what populism is now. The promise of a niche of inflated affluence for the happy fews who hold imaginary rights (assuming that there may be rights that are not imaginary). It was the rights of the workers then (and back then they were not exactly few), it has become the priority of the nationals now (also because they generally no longer work). This attitude has been decisive for Brexit, it was the ruthless (and ineffective) elimination of a social competitor. If they really were still socialists, they would have cornered a government who offset the cost of the crisis on their shoulders. Instead they simply worked in order to have a bigger slice of the residual cake, with a naif reasoning that now appears fatally flawed, for now UK's economy is halting while the inflation is on the rise.

Well, yes. My grandfather was one of the original Communists who actually killed some nazi scum in the war. It was then a party of unionizing steel and dockworkers that actually were able to influence the government. That ended with the next generation, that of my parents, the baby boomers, a generation of the laziest and most hedonistic type of people, thriving on the work of their ancestors and claiming all sorts of moral positions while never lifting a finger, never taking a personal risk. These continued to vote Socialist with a morally righteous idea about it, while turning the nation into a bourgeoise paradise for tourism and lading their children full of debts. That is what Leftism has become, to my eyes - it is realistically what it is now.

I would not do them the honour of calling them Communists. I see them simply as Statists, as anti-individualists. And I really observe that about 99 percent of Europe is in such a way anti-individual, from the racist mob-ist "right" to the statist mob-ist left, they are all directly positioned against the development of individual will and discernment.

Fixed Cross wrote:Germany has the most Socialist policies of all, and of course it is where Socialism first took hold.

It might be as you say. Still the Kanzlerin would not exactly agree, I guess you can give me that.
I think the German government implemented this 'generous' policy for two reasons: a) a considersable commercial surplus and the need to boost the internal market, have some inflation (which is a word that curls the toes of Germans, and yet they needed it) and possibly compensate a setback on their exports (which they do not even need in the end); b) defuse the populists, which they achieved successfully.
This can explain only the contingent case. In more general terms, welfare in my view is the only sovereign activity nation-state governemnts can still (think to) manage. As for the rest, they have almost no say on global economy, or on "globalization" tout court, and they can't steer that unless they become part of larger governance schemes. Sure, there is a whole range of degrees of influence, yet not even the US can afford the alternative.
(The ECB would prove me wrong in a way, but... really?).

I think all things considered, Germany has consistently been making a play for dominance in Europe at any cost. Their migration and integration policies are very different from other EU nations. German Turks actually feel, look, sound like Germans. More so than many white Germans, who are often emasculated. Turks are remarkably potent in different fields of society. Versus that strong state tied together with the most powerful type of islamic families, the French, English and Scandinavian states that all invited undisciplined Berbers (I like Berbers, mind you, El Khadire) and unorganized Arabs, who will never structurally amount to anything that is useful in a western nation except low wage labor, below industry levels.

Germany is the only nation that actually took their immigrants seriously, that had plans for them. Thus they can afford to expand immigration as the other nation drown in it.

Fixed Cross wrote:Switzerland has Socialism, so does Austria.

As of now, Switzerland is faring with a kind of Grosse Koalition (if I understood that correctly, because I never wanted to know anything about the Swiss government before today). None of the ruling parties has the name Socialist, but there is a Social-Democratic party. It looks similar in Austria, but the Social-Democrats should be the first party. Nevertheless these Austrian leftists do believe in borders, or so it seems.

I just know these nations have very copious welfare programs, which Id interpret as socialist.
I can relate to your sentiments about Switzerland. What a bizarre sarcophagus of a country.

Fixed Cross wrote:Which country in Europe is not socialist? Arguably, England has some non socialist tendencies, for the rest we d have to look at Monaco, of which I don't know the laws, and Liechtenstein and Andorra.

If you mean the governments, that would be Belgium, Hungary, Poland... Even Norway.

I mean general policies - but I think in that sense your list also applies. Except to Belgium, which is such a void that really no political label fits them. Since the 1910's they've really been not much more than a stomping ground for larger countries.

Fixed Cross wrote:Yes, Europe is dead.

Europe as we know it, as we have been taught to know it, probably is. And, given some common readings of ours, isn't that what we already knew?
I mean, the man thought that the situation was already compromised by the massive urbanisation at the end of the XIX century... And was Socialism the cause or the effect?
"Necessity at work"...

It is somewhat relieving to see that acknowledged so coolly. Yes, you are right.
The loss of colonies on the one hand and the urbanization on the other presented a loss of wealth and of aristocracy and thus of functional higher education, of method, of culture.

So... what is going to happen next? It looks as if for Europe there truly is only a way down into deeper poverty, cultural as well as economic. And that traditionally leads to war. But for war, there must be some vitality left, and I think the chances are that all Europe can become now is a slave-pit, a place of low wages, no culture, excessive media presence, and a blend between human and robotic life.

Is there a way out?
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby James S Saint » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:52 pm

Without SAM Co-ops, you haven't a chance.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:08 pm

Sure.
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:19 pm

James S Saint wrote:Without SAM Co-ops, you haven't a chance.

Are you overseeing their set-up? Do you live in a SAM Co-op?
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby attano » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:13 am

Hi, FC.

Fixed Cross wrote:Note that by these standards, Hitler is leftist as well, which I think is correct, as he was a statist and the opposite of an individualist.

So Id like to reaffirm the terms as designating favouring big vs small state, privacy vs "security", self-determination vs commune-ism.

Inasmuch as both Communism and Nazism were declensions (as perverted as one might like to call them, that's not the point) of Hegel's Ethical State, inasmuch as they put the source of power into people (whatever they thought 'people' meant) and only into that, yes he was. Inasmuch as they decree that the world must be the reflection of a metaphysical-moral order (not so differently from Medieval Kings, Popes, or Puritans, not so differently from these bourgeois Socialists, although in the anemic form of Human Rights - rights to everything, to houses, jobs, parasitic lifestyles, to education without effort, to the social ablation of sexes, to the absence of pain and fear, maybe even to eternal life...), then the ever more tentacular State is the only way.

Fixed Cross wrote:Agreed. When the liberalization and privatization began in the Netherlands late 80s and when it pushed through late 90s, the country basically died. I have to agree.
[...]
Well, yes. My grandfather was one of the original Communists who actually killed some nazi scum in the war. It was then a party of unionizing steel and dockworkers that actually were able to influence the government. That ended with the next generation, that of my parents, the baby boomers, a generation of the laziest and most hedonistic type of people, thriving on the work of their ancestors and claiming all sorts of moral positions while never lifting a finger, never taking a personal risk. These continued to vote Socialist with a morally righteous idea about it, while turning the nation into a bourgeoise paradise for tourism and lading their children full of debts. That is what Leftism has become, to my eyes - it is realistically what it is now.

I would not do them the honour of calling them Communists. I see them simply as Statists, as anti-individualists. And I really observe that about 99 percent of Europe is in such a way anti-individual, from the racist mob-ist "right" to the statist mob-ist left, they are all directly positioned against the development of individual will and discernment.

My impression is that the 'ghost world' is this: self-inflicted anesthesia. It's extreme, but I guess that there is truth at the bottom of it. We have these abundant stimuli, for which we can't stop craving, of pleasure and enjoyment. Sensuality has become masturbation basically. The rest is apathy. We abhor cruelty and repel it from our minds, and you know that somewhere is written that there would be no 'spirit' without (self-inflicted) cruelty. All that 'negative' in life that thrusts to 'overcome' has been taken away from us (for 'our own good', that's sure). But it remained in those tough hardline commies, and because of that they knew their finest hours.

Fixed Cross wrote:I think all things considered, Germany has consistently been making a play for dominance in Europe at any cost. Their migration and integration policies are very different from other EU nations. German Turks actually feel, look, sound like Germans. More so than many white Germans, who are often emasculated. Turks are remarkably potent in different fields of society. Versus that strong state tied together with the most powerful type of islamic families, the French, English and Scandinavian states that all invited undisciplined Berbers (I like Berbers, mind you, El Khadire) and unorganized Arabs, who will never structurally amount to anything that is useful in a western nation except low wage labor, below industry levels.

Germany is the only nation that actually took their immigrants seriously, that had plans for them. Thus they can afford to expand immigration as the other nation drown in it.

Yes. That's how Germans do things, but it's not only that.
Germany can rest on an impeccable public administration, an engine that exerts every ounce of government's power on the state. As well as an excellent education system. (Both are not so different from the Netherlands' or Denmark's). But they have vision too, also because they are powerful enough to have it. They assess the options and then set the route - and they act. There is also a deep risk-aversion connaturated to Germany (Friederich II of Prussia was not really German, he was even anti-German; the German who thought to imitate him, Hitler, failed), and that can well explain overzealous efforts to prevent adverse situations, even if those look only remotely possible. Of course they too make sacrifices to their public opinion, and indeed 8 years of crisis were possible also with their substantial contribution to a ghastly credit crunch.
It's no surprise that the most powerful and quite healthy economy leads the game. And it's no surprise the German government aims at preserving and increasing this dominance. What else can they do? Their voters are in Germany, not in Greece or Portugal. (And, by the way, no one is innocent, PIGS are definitely not without blame, far from it).
As long as Germany leads in the EU (because it would still lead outside the EU), most of us will benefit from that in some way. There is an alternative, however: that the EU becomes something else, and possibly something more: the dreaded super-state, a federation (or, more pausibly, a confederation like Switzerland). That would end that situation described by Hamilton, with states saving their own banks while opposing other states doing the same thing, or requests for extra-deficit that then are not put to the promised use, possibly it would even prevent doctoring balance-sheets and extravagant pension schemes. In the end we have a common independent central bank, but no real common fiscal governance: it's nonsense. The inter-governmental scheme will never grant the control needed. It's no speculation, we have already seen that.

On a different theme, I guess we focus on the cultural difference of migrants to affirm our identity by denying theirs. I would like it better if Europeans had some identity to affirm that is not expressed through negative priorities. However, this resistance of migrants to be absorbed can be explained in various ways, but I would single out this: they are very backward and conservative. To put it in a very obscure formula, their psycho-rigidity parallels the populist one. I don't think we are seeing a real clash of civilizations, it's just a clash of psycho-rigidities. On the other hand, the only good answer I happen to know has been: 'OK, be politically correct as much as you like, explain, rationalise, justify as much as you want these muslims and their sociopathic ideals, yet, at the end of the day, you prefer living among us, don't you?'. And, well, yes, I do. Why is that? I don't exactly know. I feel the only answer I can give is that this is where I come from, where I belong. And not even that is true, I don't really come from here, they don't speak my mother tongue, I enjoy eating things they don't even imagine can exist, I did not attend the same schools... Yet, here I am, and I want to stay, it's home, I have nowhere else to go. OK, in my case there are many things that can explain my effortless adaptation, but I guess that these muslims, born and bred in the same town where I live, would answer in the same way. And, as they are generally narrow-minded, as they generally have limited economical means and are not part of the sub-urbanized population, as they usually work in direct contact with poorly educated natives in a similar condition, they soak up popular characters. So much that, as you point out, they become stereotypes of the region where they live. It is known that there are second or third-generation Turks that can speak only Bavarian.
Maybe that does not explain much, it is only anecdotal evidence, but it suggests at least why I think it is not an 'invasion'. I have no research to back this, but it seems to me that the pattern seen in previous immigration waves from other European countries still largely applies here. Dispossesed people moving to richer countries looking for a decent living, stubbornly locked in a rural mentality, but that within a generation or two become part of the landscape. And as for religion, well... did Americans of Irish or Italian or Polish ancestry massively become Calvinists or Episcopalians?
The really aggravating factor, what is really dooming Europe, has been the collapse of the natives' fertility rate compared to the way more robust one of the newcomers (bearing in mind that immigrants have always shown sustained fertility rates), for all the reasons you exposed so well.
Then, I know, I know, some of them have an awful longing to blow themselves in airports and concert halls, often their 'entrepreneurship' could also be called 'crime'. It's no excuse, but also Irish, Italians, even Jews, had their gangsters and terrorists. Anarchists were very present in Italian and Jewish communities in America at the beginning of the XX century. (I connect the terrorism to the third essay of the GM, but no need to dwell on this specific aspect now).
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:03 pm

Yes, Im glad we get to address this more sociological layer of the situation. European sociology is opaque to the rest of the world, which tends to generalize the nations under one umbrella, not seeing how France and Germany can not be calculated or predicted by the same logic.

It is precisely because the continent has been forged into a superficial unity, that there are no positive values or inclinations or character traits to exult as "our own" - in my childhood we all instinctively sensed the absolute difference of us (Dutch) from the Germans, and the even yet greater difference between us and the French or Italians. Italians were as different from us as Chinese, and this made for a lot of value. To travel to such a country was always a pure enriching experience, every day a miracle of sorts. Today, to travel from Amsterdam to Rome is a real mundane affair, it is hard to get excited about any culture in Europe now, as all is covered up and made equal in temperament by this thin film of EU-ness thats come to cover all of it. It is suffocating, and that is also part of what causes the anesthesia - a simple lack of "cultural air", I don't know how else to call it - the equation of Such culture to German culture through the medium of the continent has effectively stifled all Dutch cultural expressions, and thus all our creative spirit is in paralysis. Except those solitary new philosophers, which number, of course, at best one in a million. But at least we are here.

Here is a thing that value ontology, i.e. self valuing logic, or simply the exploded WtP logic, which is what my theory is at basis (what else could interest a scientific mind) makes very clear: remove particular values and destroy particular being. As soon as the Dutch had to value Brussels instead of The Hague as government city, Holland slipped into a coma. The same but worse for France. When it had to give up Paris for Brussels as the signifier of power, obviously this killed most of French structural integrity.

Our structural integrity is that of a valuator, therein is out consistency. EU simply has insufficient value, in human terms, to sustain its people as positive entities. In the North, people have been reduced from entities to particles of the wannabe-entity of a European cultural economy. All culture has leaked out, the education system has dropped its positive, factual and historic content for mannerisms aimed to causes as little effect as possible - Europeans are quite literally being trained to go through life as corpses.

Ill post this now, it addresses some aspects of your writing. There is much more, but here is a start. It really does appear like Europe can simply only be understood through the lens of Nietzsche. And perhaps, Nietzsche can only the understood through the lens of Europe.
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:22 pm

So the strategy of Germany could pan out like this.

Europe keeps taking in refugees as a perfectly inevitable consequence of Frances policies in Lybia and NATOs policies in North Africa and the ME in general. Europe was simply not aware that if you set fire to your neighbours house, the fire might spread to your own. It seems to have been merely really dumb to unleash total war just a few hundred kilometres from the borders. But it appears that Germany is profiting from the situation in the way discussed, and at the same time the French bankers regime, which started the Lybia war under Sarkozy, has now with Macron established "peace" there, meaning French/banker ownership of the nations riches and resources. And with the defeat of Le Pen and the victory of such an evident banker as Macron, the way has been opened for a German-French allegiance that is willing to efface any culture that stands in the way of building a giant economic machine relying on low immigrant wages and unfathomable high end economic scheming. The European indigenous population is caught between the fires of on the one hand the ubiquitous islamic code of silence-or-violence, and the other the increasing emptiness of what it supposes to be its birthright, the ever more evident absence of classical European philosophy of power, with its Judeao-Hellene logos vested in the individuals reasoning capacities. Reason is quite literally being made illegal in the Northern European countries - at least for the plebs, the paper-readers, the tv-watchers.

For a short moment, the proletariat had its moment of enlightenment. Then it chose that power to forever uproot the growth of such power. The plebs has proven to be unworthy of knowledge, Europe has proven that aristocracy is necessary for humanity. But it is too late, all that was excellent in the sense of developed, cultured, invested-in, cultivated, has been eradicated. North Korea is now a more culturally aware and significant nation than the Netherlands. So are Guatemala and Cameroon. People from there are literally more capable of reasoning. The West has somehow successfully employed its strength of mind to make sure that the minds of its young are properly blocked from functioning. As someone astutely put it a while back commenting on a few politically correct statements: you have to have had a higher education to be this stupid.

In the end it was probably the wholesale access to university education granted to the lower classes, the removing of conditions and qualifications for higher education, that killed us.

The logical end is very simple: equality only exist in death, in non-existence, in the non-particular in goo. And that is what the European Man has become: goo, the individual has been deconstructed:

    "A virtuous man is a lower species because he is not a “per-
    son” but acquires his value by conforming to a pattern of man that
    is fixed once and for all. He does not possess his value apart: he can
    be compared, he has his equals, he must not be an individual —" [WtP 319]
And this is what serves the strategy of Germany for dominion of the continent - they now might

    "employ democratic Europe as
    their most pliant and supple instrument for getting hold of the
    destinies of the earth, so as to work as artists upon “man” himself." [WtP 960]
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Void_X_Zero » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:54 pm

This is a great analysis and I agree up until the point where you turn on the people who are really the victims here, the European people. This scheme has been foisted on them by their corrupt leadership, and the situation established wherein the European people are unable to speak up without risking their jobs, friends and family, and indeed their very lives. As you said, the Islamification of Europe leads to absolute silencing of the people to speak out, because Islam is this Weapon of Silencing. Everyone knows it. If you speak out, you will be targeted. And European people know this, and it does not only come from Muslims but also from their governments.

So what exactly are they supposed to do? If you read 1984 you do not end up concluding that the average citizen is to blame for the dystopian hell they are all living in. At least that is not the proper conclusion to draw.

I too bemoan the fact that most 'average citizens' seem too apathetic and uninterested in the world around them, but we have to remember that when they are living in an oppressive and potentially violent, threatening climate where there are not only physical but also social, economic, and media weapons pointed right at them, staring them in the face 24/7, you are naturally going to have the effect that most people simply do not step out of line. That is what it means to point weapons at someone who lacks those weapons or any defense against them... that is what it means to be a "victim", and in some cases it is appropriate to blame the victim, but in other cases it is not.

I am contemplating your comment about aristocracy, because I do not entirely disagree. I used to equate aristocracy with the current corrupt globalist class, but I realize that the two are not the same. Aristocracy of values rather than of mere 'power for its own sake', mere wealth as such, would be good. Or rather, I would simply like a meritocracy, an aristocracy of values through merit-recognition spread through all strata of society. The place this was most closely approximated is, of course, America.
"Siamo contenti? Son dio, ha fatto questa caricatura . . . [Are we happy? I am God, I made this caricature . . .]"

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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:37 pm

But look, Ive been fighting with all I had in me for twenty years, making tv, music, in basically all my conversations about politics - and in 20 years Ive never had public support from anyone once.

In private, two persons have admitted to me that Im right. But all the hundreds of others that I used to know have simply ceased talking to me apart from death wishes.

Ive been putting all I have on the line, including my life, for twenty years trying to find someone who isn't a fascist drone. Ive found a handful of possible non-drones. But the vast, outstanding majority, at least 99 percent, is fascist drone and insist on being it.

So I do blame them. And I know that they all voted for PvdA, the party that was responsible for the mass immigration from the 60s through the 10's.

the European leaders did not turn wretched and subhuman as an exception to the rule, they simply represent European vileness and apathy which truly is very widespread.

So I really do put it all on the population. Just like I put Trumps victory on the American population.
Europeans are, on the whole, fascists, and Islam is just something they welcome to silence people that wish to raise their thoughts above the herd.

In Holland we have numerous sayings like "Act normal, then you'll act crazy enough" and "never put your head above the field" (because it will be cut off) - this is Dutch ethics: to shut up, make money and pay taxes.

I have for many long years sough for vital humanity in European populations, without success entirely. So any assertion that the European populations are not to blame, or that there is real potential for increased human activity in them, will require factual examples.

In my experience, which is extensive, and stretches across al of western and Central Europe throughout 15 years of travel and migration, there are no such examples.

Even in WWII it was very rare that people resisted the nazis. Holland gave up relatively more Jews than any other nation, and without complaints. It is not like in the US there - there is no basic consensus that existence and value are related.

A new type of mankind, entirely mixed breed, will come to dominate Europe in the coming decades - a hedonistic worker bee, a worker bee that has such simple standards that it can feel like a privileged hedonist while doing low wage labor 40 hours a week.

This seems to have been the post WWII plan of the Germans, and it has simply come through for them - without any significant resistance, because the populations at large made sure people that spoke in truth were silenced, expelled or in case of influential people, killed.

And these same murdering populations funnel their most opportune, most conscientiously conscience-less members up into the bureaucracy, the executive branch, and the financial institution that controls that branch.

Europeans love fascism and oppression, it gives them a sense of security.
They aren't human yet, or not anymore - this is what Nietzsche addresses, this is what "God is dead" and the mission for the Superman really signify - the fact that humanity itself had disappeared from the continent.

This is what Nietzsche is really saying, why he has such strong loathing and such a strong sense of fate and destiny. None of that loathing, nor of that sense of destiny, has become less relevant. On the contrary - it is all coming to a head in our time. It is up to philosophy and philosophy alone whether Europe lives or dies as a human form.
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Void_X_Zero » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:55 pm

I understand and cannot refute your perspective, because I am not European. But I cannot so easily write off 99% of citizens throughout Europe. Although my experience talking to Europeans online does seem to conform to what you are saying, I would put the percentage at around 85% or so, ballpark estimate.
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:00 pm

Void_X_Zero wrote:I understand and cannot refute your perspective, because I am not European. But I cannot so easily write off 99% of citizens throughout Europe. Although my experience talking to Europeans online does seem to conform to what you are saying, I would put the percentage at around 85% or so, ballpark estimate.

I can work with this sort of margin, it is more about it being the overwhelming majority.

Of course there are many degrees of wastedness.

Lets say 85 percent is truly hopelessly dehumanized, but over the course of centuries this must have been happening, and this is what N also points to - and then we have 14 percent where all sorts of signs of life are still capable of surfacing.

The crucial question is what kind of strengths, virtues and assets these 14 percent have that can be cultivated to assimilate into a striking force rooted in philosophical ground, across the next decades.

How to recognize, assemble and instruct the remaindering humanity? This is a question the answer to which would be no less than a strategy, so we should ponder this with some force.



I will add that, by virtue of the overwhelming degree of human corruption, we can not rely on any groups, nor political movements. Assimilation into philosophy can only happen on an individual basis, and with strong emphasis on the undesirability of group behaviour, group standards and group nature.

The enemy of humanity is collectivism. All human collectives that don't require individual virtues and merit from group members but includes them simply on the basis of being a bag humanoid meat are direct threats to health and sanity.

The collective must be destroyed. And this, fortunately, will prove possible, as the collective hangs together by the pain of being small, and the related fear - we may actually ruin the cohesion by making its ground more explicit to the members. We could cause a form of shame that could turn into the impulse to pride, being.
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Void_X_Zero » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:22 pm

Definitely, I think this is part of the motivation behind the more recent attacks on the left/SJW types, especially online. Normal or average people see the collectivist souldeath that infects these far leftists, and are repelled by it and inspired to attack and laugh at it. This will also sink into some of those leftists themselves, those closer to the middle. And as more are influenced by sanity and health, the effect will spread further leftward.
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:56 pm

I think that is much too optimistic. The average person in Europe is fascist. In other words, the average person doesn't actually exist. The far left person in Europe is simply absolutely genocidal and absolutely stark-mad. And that is probably 30 percent. These optimistically hypothesized 14 percent of hopefuls (which would live in other countries than the Netherlands) are perhaps for 50 percent likely to have an independent thought, and then it remains to be see whether they have the heart to follow through. This applies to them:

"A virtuous man is a lower species because he is not a “per-
son” but acquires his value by conforming to a pattern of man that
is fixed once and for all. He does not possess his value apart: he can
be compared, he has his equals, he must not be an individual —" [WtP 319]

My own experience is that there is at best 1 percent still remotely human - but I always cave to optimism. I would like there to be that 14 percent, but I haven't seen it. Even all my dozens of blood relatives, except my parents, but including my sister, have excommunicated me, when they discovered they hadn't succeeded in destroying me. The one who was truly human, by grandfather, was put in a nursing home to die by his own wife even though he begged to be allowed to stay in the home that he paid for. Europe is a sickness unto death. Your hopes are, I think, as misguided as my own 15 year travails in search of remnants of culture and dignity on that continent.
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Void_X_Zero » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:00 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:I think that is much too optimistic. The average person in Europe is fascist. In other words, the average person doesn't actually exist. The far left person in Europe is simply absolutely genocidal and absolutely stark-mad. And that is probably 30 percent.

These 14 percent of hopefuls are perhaps for 50 percent likely to have an independent thought, and then it remains to be see whether they have the heart to follow through, this applies to them:

"A virtuous man is a lower species because he is not a “per-
son” but acquires his value by conforming to a pattern of man that
is fixed once and for all. He does not possess his value apart: he can
be compared, he has his equals, he must not be an individual —" [WtP 319]

My own experience is that there is at best 1 percent still remotely human - but I always cave to optimism. I would like there to be that 14 percent, but I haven't seen it. Even all my dozens of blood relatives, except my parents, but including my sister, have excommunicated me, when they discovered they hadn't succeeded in destroying me. The one who was truly human, by grandfather, was put in a nursing home to die by his own wife even though he begged to be allowed to stay in the home that he paid for. Europe is a sickness unto death. Your hopes are, I think, as misguided as my own 15 year travails in search of remnants of culture and dignity on that continent.


That is a very sad state of affairs. But I will concede the point, simply because this situation in Europe has been so ongoing now for decades, and only getting worse (with the exception of Brexit), so clearly there is a lack of will to alter trajectory.

At least in the US, when the trajectory is bad, the will to get back on course is immediate and strong.
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:17 pm

I feel a relief at your concession. Me, a pathological optimist, can't afford this optimism anymore where it concerns Europe. Ive been disappointed without exception and always worse than I had thought possible.

Some of the poststructuralist were right that after WWII it had become impossible for Europeans to be optimistic enough to create art - woe, it turns out art is life. But in turn, WWII was the result of WWI which was the result of the collapse of the imperial world, which in turn was all that Europe, as continent, has ever represented. From the outset, the Roman Empire, the unification of the European continent under infrastructure, law, language, religion (philosophy for the people) and scientific methods has been a totalitarian affair. The EU is only the most totalitarian effort so far. Brexit would be great if the EU hadn't immediately cleverly fortified itself at the cost of England - one thing in which they rarely fail (these central European authorities that reside predominantly in Southern Germany, Switzerland, Western France, Northern Italy, and the several micro mountain states exclusive to millionaires among them) is networking. We may as well envision the literal existence of a vast network of tunnels underneath the Alps that has served under Hitler and before, of which CERN is now an integral part, as the reality that drives the European unification; it is a technocratic project that uses the elements of condensedness and obscurity that the continent offers in its spinal region to maximal exploitation of the unwitting human resources.

One trip from Italy to Germany through Switzerland can illustrate all this ominously. Landscape is really very important in warfare and economic divisions, behaviour of officials is especially telling. But whats even re eloquent is a look at Switzerlands (and its border regions) corporate assets and the history of the value of its currency against the Euro. We can't look directly into the country affairs, it is the best hidden power of the Western Hemisphere, but we can see the degree of leverage and how that has payed out over time. I meant to write played out, but.

My concern is that the European human is simply not equipped qua self valuing spinal density to even discern, let alone dent the powers that "be it".
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Void_X_Zero » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:32 pm

Perhaps Europe lacked one or two truly great artists post-WWII. A single artist genius can alter the culture irrevocably.
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby James S Saint » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:33 pm

Void_X_Zero wrote:Perhaps Europe lacked one or two truly great artists post-WWII. A single artist genius can alter the culture irrevocably.

Only when and if they are granted media attention (then they don't have to be truly genius at all).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Void_X_Zero » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:41 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:I feel a relief at your concession. Me, a pathological optimist, can't afford this optimism anymore where it concerns Europe. Ive been disappointed without exception and always worse than I had thought possible.

Some of the poststructuralist were right that after WWII it had become impossible for Europeans to be optimistic enough to create art - woe, it turns out art is life. But in turn, WWII was the result of WWI which was the result of the collapse of the imperial world, which in turn was all that Europe, as continent, has ever represented. From the outset, the Roman Empire, the unification of the European continent under infrastructure, law, language, religion (philosophy for the people) and scientific methods has been a totalitarian affair. The EU is only the most totalitarian effort so far. Brexit would be great if the EU hadn't immediately cleverly fortified itself at the cost of England - one thing in which they rarely fail (these central European authorities that reside predominantly in Southern Germany, Switzerland, Western France, Northern Italy, and the several micro mountain states exclusive to millionaires among them) is networking. We may as well envision the literal existence of a vast network of tunnels underneath the Alps that has served under Hitler and before, of which CERN is now an integral part, as the reality that drives the European unification; it is a technocratic project that uses the elements of condensedness and obscurity that the continent offers in its spinal region to maximal exploitation of the unwitting human resources.

One trip from Italy to Germany through Switzerland can illustrate all this ominously. Landscape is really very important in warfare and economic divisions, behaviour of officials is especially telling. But whats even re eloquent is a look at Switzerlands (and its border regions) corporate assets and the history of the value of its currency against the Euro. We can't look directly into the country affairs, it is the best hidden power of the Western Hemisphere, but we can see the degree of leverage and how that has payed out over time. I meant to write played out, but.

My concern is that the European human is simply not equipped qua self valuing spinal density to even discern, let alone dent the powers that "be it".


My resistance comes primarily from the fact that I don't want to lose my positive view of Europe, as a place of history and culture that I would like to visit again someday. But I suspect the Europe of my idealized imagining no longer exists in the majority of places in Europe anymore. That is very sad. Europe usess to be a cultural beacon, a place for artists and writers and philosophers. But no more, I guess.

If Balkanization happens this could bring some of that back, if the EU and Islamism is isolated to only certain areas.
"Siamo contenti? Son dio, ha fatto questa caricatura . . . [Are we happy? I am God, I made this caricature . . .]"

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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:26 pm

Well your last two messages can be combined into an imperative.
What if an American saves Europe out of a love for the continent that isn't available anymore from within.

It would not be hard for an American to take hold of European destinies, the American type is far superior to the modern European. Anywhere where Americans do choose to settle in Europe they gather people and optimism around them effortlessly.

We can see this as a Trumpentyped retrocolonialism of the old empire by the new world.
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Void_X_Zero » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:27 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Well your last two messages can be combined into an imperative.
What if an American saves Europe out of a power of love for the continent that isn't available anymore from within.

This happened for the US on numerous occasions - at least that it was saved by hep from outside - it is an immigrant country in this sense.

It would not be hard for an American to take hold of European destinies.


Yeah, Europe needs a Milo from America.
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:29 pm

No, rather a very severe, serious artist like Coppola or Kubrick.
Europe can not be swayed by light feet.
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:31 pm

It needs to be a small army of professional artists with profound, severe agendas of human taste. All of these artists are American individuals, all of whom have made their own fortunes through their arts in the world at large. This could save Europe. You are right, this is what was lacking, the courage for art - Adorno did represent the pulse of the continent.
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Re: Is Europe dying? G20 ANTIFA

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:36 pm

What if powerful American dynasties or just families that root into European nationalities go back to their old country and re establish their line there from a position of wealth?
What if there was to be a network of American lineages that traces back to all the various ethnicities of Europe? This network would contain many unspoiled traces of European culture that have not been subjected to the "evolution" that came with the unification wars of 1914 and 1939.
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