chaos

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chaos

Postby fuse » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:19 am

1:00:30 wrote:And so, Pinocchio, it's a very interesting movie, I could tell you what its fundamental presupposition is, I'll just guide you through it very, very rapidly. So, at the beginning of the movie, Gipedo, who's the archetype of the good father, by the way, which is an archetype that we've forgotten about but does exist because our culture isn't just a tyrannical patriarchy, as you can tell by the fact that we're warm and comfortable and we're not tearing each other to shreds at the moment, which is what you do in a state of absolute chaos, right? It's mayhem while you're freezing and starving. Right. And that isn't what we have. We have peace. And it's rare. And it's amazing that we have it. But we shouldn't take it for granted. Because it's not the normal order of things. The normal order of things is destructive chaos. And if you're fortunate enough to live somewhere that's peaceful and productive, you should thank your lucky stars every second of your life. And if you don't do that all it means is that you don't know anything about history and you know nothing about human beings. Because things can get absolutely monstrous and it happens all the time. And there's always a fraction of the population who thinks that's how they'd like things to be. And perhaps there's a fraction of you that's like that too. And I wouldn't nurture that fragment, if I was you, unless you want it to go where it will take you. Anyways, back to Pinocchio.

Anyone who's backed helplessly into a corner enough times can become bold enough to burn everything down. The mechanism is known: crazy is unpredictable. Even longtime antagonists will keep their respectful distance. The impressive thing is not the sudden reversion to absolute chaos, that's the rule, the default state of nature, the impressive thing is how fragile are capability, measure, and subtlety of thought. And that is what should be nurtured.
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Re: chaos

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:06 am

fuse wrote:
1:00:30 wrote:And so, Pinocchio, it's a very interesting movie, I could tell you what its fundamental presupposition is, I'll just guide you through it very, very rapidly. So, at the beginning of the movie, Gipedo, who's the archetype of the good father, by the way, which is an archetype that we've forgotten about but does exist because our culture isn't just a tyrannical patriarchy, as you can tell by the fact that we're warm and comfortable and we're not tearing each other to shreds at the moment, which is what you do in a state of absolute chaos, right? It's mayhem while you're freezing and starving. Right. And that isn't what we have. We have peace. And it's rare. And it's amazing that we have it. But we shouldn't take it for granted. Because it's not the normal order of things. The normal order of things is destructive chaos. And if you're fortunate enough to live somewhere that's peaceful and productive, you should thank your lucky stars every second of your life. And if you don't do that all it means is that you don't know anything about history and you know nothing about human beings. Because things can get absolutely monstrous and it happens all the time. And there's always a fraction of the population who thinks that's how they'd like things to be. And perhaps there's a fraction of you that's like that too. And I wouldn't nurture that fragment, if I was you, unless you want it to go where it will take you. Anyways, back to Pinocchio.

Anyone who's backed helplessly into a corner enough times can become bold enough to burn everything down. The mechanism is known: crazy is unpredictable. Even longtime antagonists will keep their respectful distance. The impressive thing is not the sudden reversion to absolute chaos, that's the rule, the default state of nature, the impressive thing is how fragile are capability, measure, and subtlety of thought. And that is what should be nurtured.


Fuse ... for me, a very interesting and time appropriate OP ... most OP's in this forum are parochial whereas your post implies a broader scope ... although I don't know if that was your intention.

The impressive thing is not the sudden reversion to absolute chaos, that's the rule, the default state of nature


Ancient Chinese sages called what you write as "the sudden reversion":

物極必反 wùjíbìfǎn

... roughly translated as "when things reach an extreme, they can only move in the opposite direction"

The sage(s) also claim the source of their insight to be 'nature". For example ... the rose blossom ... the 'peak' of the plant's cycle soon dies and the cycle starts all over again.

capability, measure, and subtlety of thought. And that is what should be nurtured


let's hope we are headed in the direction you suggested.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: chaos

Postby fuse » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:45 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Fuse ... for me, a very interesting and time appropriate OP ... most OP's in this forum are parochial whereas your post implies a broader scope ... although I don't know if that was your intention.

If it resonates with you, that's excellent. It didn't used to be this way, but this forum is now host to a lot of maladjusted/paranoid/anarchy/burn it all down types. And with more extreme political polarization in general, I do find Jordan Peterson's above tangent timely.

We don't live in absolute chaos. We have food, shelter, and heat. And we don't live in constant destruction and war, not the vast majority of us in the west. Yet many people now and on this forum indulge in this rhetoric and longing for wanton destruction, free-for-all, and chaos. I have to think it's from desperation, from feeling trapped in another kind of chaos. Otherwise it's sheer ignorance and stupidity. There's nothing easier than letting things go to shit. Just stop thinking and react on impulse. Don't organize, don't compromise, don't plan and work toward a common future. A much more brutal chaos has reigned throughout history. People who think that that is preferable have either never experienced the horrors of war or have no idea what they wish for. Because it's never very far away.

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
fuse wrote:The impressive thing is not the sudden reversion to absolute chaos, that's the rule, the default state of nature


Ancient Chinese sages called what you write as "the sudden reversion":

物極必反 wùjíbìfǎn

... roughly translated as "when things reach an extreme, they can only move in the opposite direction"

The sage(s) also claim the source of their insight to be 'nature". For example ... the rose blossom ... the 'peak' of the plant's cycle soon dies and the cycle starts all over again.

What a great connection! Yep. I like it.

Our language and dialogue has become more extreme, less thoughtful. We react like a hair trigger when the other side says or does something slightly foul. We label, judge, and punish. We don't argue the point anymore, we just try to beat the other side into submission. We expect the other side to bend to our will, and if they retaliate we band together and excoriate them all the more harshly. There's no patience, too little openness for diversity of thought, and a false sense of security in having numbers and outspoken figureheads.

There is something pernicious and regressive in the air. People are just feeding and feeding it. And as far as I can see, no side is clean.

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
fuse wrote:capability, measure, and subtlety of thought. And that is what should be nurtured


let's hope we are headed in the direction you suggested.

Sure, but we can do more than hope.
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