Is Trump merely a figurehead?

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Is trump merely a figurehead?

1 Trump is merely a puppet, masked for unresolved and hidden programs for and by ideological construction.
3
50%
2 Trump is not a figurehead, but a real force in a renewed effort to make America great again
3
50%
3 Undecided
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 6

Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby jerkey » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:44 am

The brazenness of Trump's entrance into the election caught people by surprise. He is coming from a place in the center, where most presidents are weary to be found in. Obama tried, and his reach shorted his grasp. Adding to it, what is suspect, the rise of the ideologues, smells of a prior set up, the product of a conclave, the augmentation of which, called for a figure as ambiguous as Trump. All of his rhetoric, actions and sexcapades lead to only one conclusion: That the ideas which fueled democrats, did not succeed with that form of governance, so what really is going on is the firming reestablishment of ideological softness.

What if it was a case of a brilliant switcharoo, to pre-empt the very thing some call an imminent coup?

Brilliant political strategy, coinciding the rapidly falling confidence in either party. Theatre, more or less, in addition, to make it palatable for the sophists, the cynics, and anybody else, who would be hard press to find their way back from the conondrum facing the USA Today.

If you would vote on weather Yes or No, Trump is only a figure head of a well thought out program.
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby Uccisore » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:35 pm

Every politician is going to seem this way, especially if you dont like them.

Remember: If a politician succeeds, it's because there's an entire team of people behind them evaluating what they say, how they say it, where they say it, what color tie they wear, who's hand they shake, who stands next to them on stage, and in the case of Democrats, what headlines are written about them and what questions they are given in interviews. Everything about them is calculated, strategic, and so on.

So yes, Trump took everybody by surprise in some sort of brilliant tactical play. But that's just a part of winning a political campaign. It doesn't mean there's anything more behind it than the usual army of strategists, researchers, and marketers.
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby Wyld » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:04 pm

Trump played the media like the chumps they are. And they're too dishonest to admit it.
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby iambiguous » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:32 pm

Uccisore wrote:...Trump took everybody by surprise in some sort of brilliant tactical play.


Of course a tactical play is often brilliant only to the extent that those who vote for you are not sophisticated enough to see through it. Remember, for example, Barack Obama's "change we can believe in"?

And now in "draining the swamp" we have a new rendition of it.

So, will he? Or, in the end, will the folks behind the curtain -- the Bilderbergers and their ilk -- more or less sustain "business as usual"?

Crony capitalism at home and the military industrial complex abroad.
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby Uccisore » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:41 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Of course a tactical play is often brilliant only to the extent that those who vote for you are not sophisticated enough to see through it.


I was just paraphrasing the person I was responding to. Read for comprehension, not for opportunities to spout the one thing you spout.
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby iambiguous » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:59 pm

Uccisore wrote:
iambiguous wrote:
Of course a tactical play is often brilliant only to the extent that those who vote for you are not sophisticated enough to see through it.


I was just paraphrasing the person I was responding to. Read for comprehension, not for opportunities to spout the one thing you spout.


Where's the fun in that, Mr. Objectivist? :wink:

Anyway, what did you think of the point I raised? Is there anything to it at all?

No, seriously. Let's discuss the extent to which political economy is a factor in American politics. Or in the "liberal/conservative" divide.

On another thread if you'd like.

No huffing, no puffing. Just a straight out exchange of ideas.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Objectivists: Like shooting turds in a barrel.

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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:13 pm

Of course Trump is a figure head.

He's the victory of the post modern experiment on global politics.

Then there's the real.

He won't keep a single promise
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby iambiguous » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:52 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
He won't keep a single promise


I assign you this task:

1] make a list of Don Trump's campaign promises
2] four years from now we'll all meet back here and see how he did

Just out of curiosity, does anyone here have a list of all the campaign promises that Barry Obama broke?

Starting [of course] with "change we can believe in".

In other words, tell that to Wall Street. :wink:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Objectivists: Like shooting turds in a barrel.

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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby Uccisore » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:06 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Uccisore wrote:
iambiguous wrote:
Of course a tactical play is often brilliant only to the extent that those who vote for you are not sophisticated enough to see through it.


I was just paraphrasing the person I was responding to. Read for comprehension, not for opportunities to spout the one thing you spout.


Where's the fun in that, Mr. Objectivist? :wink:

Anyway, what did you think of the point I raised? Is there anything to it at all?

No, seriously. Let's discuss the extent to which political economy is a factor in American politics. Or in the "liberal/conservative" divide.

On another thread if you'd like.

No huffing, no puffing. Just a straight out exchange of ideas.



You utterly failed to address the subject of the thread or the post you quoted. That doesn't mean we are now suddenly talking about the topic you accidentally raised.
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby iambiguous » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:23 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Of course a tactical play is often brilliant only to the extent that those who vote for you are not sophisticated enough to see through it.


I was just paraphrasing the person I was responding to. Read for comprehension, not for opportunities to spout the one thing you spout.


Where's the fun in that, Mr. Objectivist? :wink:

Anyway, what did you think of the point I raised? Is there anything to it at all?

No, seriously. Let's discuss the extent to which political economy is a factor in American politics. Or in the "liberal/conservative" divide.

On another thread if you'd like.

No huffing, no puffing. Just a straight out exchange of ideas.[/quote]


You utterly failed to address the subject of the thread or the post you quoted. That doesn't mean we are now suddenly talking about the topic you accidentally raised.


I'll take that as a "no" then.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Objectivists: Like shooting turds in a barrel.

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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:17 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
He won't keep a single promise


I assign you this task:

1] make a list of Don Trump's campaign promises
2] four years from now we'll all meet back here and see how he did

Just out of curiosity, does anyone here have a list of all the campaign promises that Barry Obama broke?

Starting [of course] with "change we can believe in".

In other words, tell that to Wall Street. :wink:


Let's see a few.

Making Mexico pay for a 3000 mile wall.

Repealing Obamacre (which sucks)

Charging Hillary as a traitor and hanging her
Do unto yourself and others as you'd do unto yourself if you were them (and you) - Ecmandu's Rule.

Ecmandu's second rule: calculate the set of your argument upon itself before you argue!

Stratification of motivational systems towards conspicuous consumption or extraneous drama cause all human ills - that was the most important thing you'll ever read in your life. - Ecmandu

The biggest problem in life... That more than one person wants the same thing! Solve this, and you have beaten the demon of life!
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby iambiguous » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:59 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
iambiguous wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
He won't keep a single promise


I assign you this task:

1] make a list of Don Trump's campaign promises
2] four years from now we'll all meet back here and see how he did

Just out of curiosity, does anyone here have a list of all the campaign promises that Barry Obama broke?

Starting [of course] with "change we can believe in".

In other words, tell that to Wall Street. :wink:


Let's see a few.

Making Mexico pay for a 3000 mile wall.

Repealing Obamacre (which sucks)

Charging Hillary as a traitor and hanging her


His presidency is barely a few hours old and he's already not accomplished all that?!!

Wow, imagine then the list in four years!!!!
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Objectivists: Like shooting turds in a barrel.

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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby jerkey » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:19 am

Already He is causing international tension, particularly with EU/Angela. Her re-election is at stake after all, and the lead editorial of the Vanguard, & N.Y. Times branded his 'dark' inaugural speech as philosophical and ideological. This may support choice #1?
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby Uccisore » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:25 am

I thought everything was fine until you pointed out that the New York Times didn't like his speech. Now I want to change my vote.
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby jerkey » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:25 am

It is not this particular comment which shows his character, it's the some total of ideological manipulation per se. His speeches have been typified as dark, the latest dishonoring of killed CIA operatives is another attempt to discredit intelligence
in favor of a buildup of central authority, namely himself, Trump. This is why choice #1 is tipping the scales of ideological shift toward an extreme center,
but not in a way which can move toward better
transparency.

I guess, all those frustrated white guys mistake a
phenomenal philosophical manipulation for changing
the psychological leverage they assume can be brought into alignment.


This is no logically validated ontological - ontic shift based on a 'real' relationship, but a quasi simulation-reality show attempt, almost as if, the view that Reaganism can be upped by a very large extent, into the hyperreal stratosphere of pre manufactured expectations-actually moving the international politico.

If he succeeds, there may be no need to validate ex-post-facto, for no one will raise an eyebrow. But, and this is a big butt, it doesent work in accordance to expectations, then there will be dues to pay. And that's a gross understatement.

My feeling is that over the years of his administration, providing he survives, there will be a substantial dilution , unnoticeable and subtly deceptive.
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby Uccisore » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:53 am

jerkey wrote:It is not this particular comment which shows his character, it's the some total of ideological manipulation per se. His speeches have been typified as dark,


"Dark" is a buzzword that is associated with Trump over and over. In all likelihood, it was literally emailed to the DNC friendly press by John Podesta himself, and suggested they use it to refer to him as much as possible. And here you are taking it at face value and treating it like some reasoned consensus among experts.

the latest dishonoring of killed CIA operatives is another attempt to discredit intelligence


Are you aware that he just gave a speech to the CIA, his first public address since being inaugurated, and he spent the entire time telling them how wonderful and important they are, and how he's going to support them and depend upon them?
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby iambiguous » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:05 am

iambiguous wrote:
iambiguous wrote:
Of course a tactical play is often brilliant only to the extent that those who vote for you are not sophisticated enough to see through it.


I was just paraphrasing the person I was responding to. Read for comprehension, not for opportunities to spout the one thing you spout.


Where's the fun in that, Mr. Objectivist? :wink:

Anyway, what did you think of the point I raised? Is there anything to it at all?

No, seriously. Let's discuss the extent to which political economy is a factor in American politics. Or in the "liberal/conservative" divide.

On another thread if you'd like.

No huffing, no puffing. Just a straight out exchange of ideas.



You utterly failed to address the subject of the thread or the post you quoted. That doesn't mean we are now suddenly talking about the topic you accidentally raised.


I'll take that as a "no" then.


What the hell is this mish mash all about?!!

Someone has been fucking with the posts on this thread. Including [I suspect] deleting one or two of mine.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Objectivists: Like shooting turds in a barrel.

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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby Wyld » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:50 pm

jerkey wrote:Already He is causing international tension, particularly with EU/Angela. Her re-election is at stake after all, and the lead editorial of the Vanguard, & N.Y. Times branded his 'dark' inaugural speech as philosophical and ideological. This may support choice #1?


Dear god no, a newspaper said something bad about Trump. The shock, the horror. Surely it must be true!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nge0NnTEnCI
"Those who attach such importance to the ought of morality and fancy that morality is destroyed if the ought is not recognized as ultimate truth, and those too who, reasoning from the level of the understanding, derive a perpetual satisfaction from being able to confront everything there is with an ought, that is, with a 'knowing better' −− and for that very reason are just as loath to be robbed of the ought −− do not see that as regards the finitude of their sphere the ought receives full recognition. But in the world of actuality itself, Reason and Law are not in such a bad way that they only ought to be... The philosophy of Kant and Fichte sets up the ought as the highest point of the resolution of the contradictions of Reason; but the truth is that the ought is only the standpoint which clings to finitude and thus to contradiction." -Hegel, Science of Logic
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby jerkey » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:27 am

Wyld,

I am here in the Philippines and read the Manila Times opinion/editorial relating to the topic of Trumpism, and Duterte resembling him in many ways. This was the middle column, and there are some here who claim that marshal law is coming to contain an impending chaos.

The left side pointed to Trump's perceived weaknesses, how China will deal with the possibility that Trump will impose sharply elevated tariffs and a trade war will ensue, among other things. Intellectual property theft, currency manipulation is also brought up but merely as sidelines to the main problem caused by huge deficits accumulating as a result of abrogating manufacturing in subcontractual economies and the tariffs imposed. They laugh it off, with the suggestion that all China has to do I see to impose an internal tax of say 25%, making exported products competitive, thereby equalizing any appear entirely inequality.

So the two superpowers will use balances to weigh other issues, such as the island issue within the Asian peninsula, where China is claiming territoriality of them in international waters. Human rights also can become a weight added to the mix to establish equilibrium and some kind of rapport.

On the right, the problem deals with internal affairs in the island nation, dealing with the question of how the new president will re-position himself between Chinese and U.S. Interests. Will he continue his slide toward China, adding to the impact of the power move by China in Asia, or the other way, Toward the U.S., using this position to deter China, to his increasingly perceived repressive politics.

These are unknowns, and added to this mix, is the Catholic Pontiff's observation and warning to and of Trump, for building bridges in favor of open societies,and against building walls.

Which will prevail internationally, isolationism or, involvement?

I bring these comments tangentially, only to examplify how the media reflects internationally, with some inherent local bias to be sure, but the variance of information casts light generally on a overall world view, not of course with any definitive way.

We may or may not share any of this, but it may have bearing on how to vote on this topic .
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby Wyld » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:09 pm

Trump has already withdrawn the US from the TPP, put a hiring freeze in place for some federal employees, ordered a freeze on regulations pending review, taken steps toward getting rid of the monstrosity known as Obamacare, talked with foreign leaders, defended himself against fake news claims about his inauguration, restarted a ban on federally funding for abortion services, and brought back thousands of jobs and billions of dollars of investment back to the US.

It's not even been a week yet.
"Those who attach such importance to the ought of morality and fancy that morality is destroyed if the ought is not recognized as ultimate truth, and those too who, reasoning from the level of the understanding, derive a perpetual satisfaction from being able to confront everything there is with an ought, that is, with a 'knowing better' −− and for that very reason are just as loath to be robbed of the ought −− do not see that as regards the finitude of their sphere the ought receives full recognition. But in the world of actuality itself, Reason and Law are not in such a bad way that they only ought to be... The philosophy of Kant and Fichte sets up the ought as the highest point of the resolution of the contradictions of Reason; but the truth is that the ought is only the standpoint which clings to finitude and thus to contradiction." -Hegel, Science of Logic
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby jerkey » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:33 pm

Ok. But let's summarize the meaning of these moves and their apprehension:

There is a strain of thought which draws to the conclusion that the world is shifting modes operation,
And bifurcation into tow realms; one China, pushing the globalist agenda, and two. The US the isolationist ones.

Sure he is bringing back jobs, but at what cost?

To manufacture overly expensive products, inflated by prices with factored in raised wages, needs some
structural entity to pay for the increase to prevent
competitive collapse. Who will pay for it? That is a good question, and it is possible all this hype about it , and it's limited inception, is merely a show of redemptive effort to mute those who see it merely as a kind of proof of sincerity.

That it will cost, no matter, a billionaires' club will certainly afford to fund to diffuse critical areas of economic distress here and there. But will he do it or afford it large scale? That is the 64 thousand dollar question.
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby -1- » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:55 am

iambiguous wrote::wink:

I think of Trumpls more as of a fingerhead than as of a figurehead.
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby jerkey » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:46 am

I don't think a wink really justifies the difference. But sticky fingers resort to leaving no details behind, and in this case, the meaning is definitely not in that, I might as well reference a long past Rolling Stone hit by an ass ociation like that.

The numbers , albeit few, show some pattern here on general terms, the bifurcation literally exemplifies a quantified reduction of the gross global signification between both sides, VI's. Those who go for the NWO, and those who are isolationists. It's a microcosmic representation to sure, but someone on NPR commented that there is a view floating around of a return to 1920's political reality.

What's next? A crash and a deep recession/depression?
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby jerkey » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:48 am

One could extend the finger head metaphors to the onset f the gold finger spy series. Everything big, grand.
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Re: Is Trump merely a figurehead?

Postby jerkey » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:16 am

Zizek may be dead, but Chomsky is alive. He says Trump is a con man. Another observer, a history -prof. , gifted and known for predictive talents, who did predict a Trump win, now sees a Trump impeachment as inavoidable.

We're Republicans were able to blow up a lesser crime with Levinsky et all, it's very arguable that Trump's problems will successfully be downplayed by a government where all three branches are controlled by the same.

If all the hoopla surrounding the merits of isolationism fail, and there some Republican congressmen start to worry about mid-term elections, will the center hold? This reasoning is more compelling, the more this possible scenario is entertained.

Ideological meltdown can occur, as well as the ease at which it was built up.

Even now, there are many within the reasonable members of the Republican Party who would not want anything better then a Pence succession.
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