Fuxit [brexit] was an attack on that which is threatening Anglo-Saxon culture, namely mass immigration. It was also an attack on ‘the establishment’, trumps campaign was much the same as these things too. Thing is, before we were in the EU, our government still done the mass migration thing to acquire labor, mostly Afro-Caribbean and Asian cultures. Then before that they had us for their cheap labor!
Secondly, ‘the establishment’ includes trump, he is part of the one percent. On the other hand I do believe people can be genuinely on the side of the people and be a conservative. For us Brits ~ especially former socialists like me, it is difficult to perceive Conservative philosophy as also being liberating and anti-establishment. However, I understand Washington was such a thing, and lord knows the world could do with a thinker like that ~ so we will see on that matter. …whether or not ‘they’ are on the side of the people.
As for the EU and the globalists on the other hand, if they think they are going to sideline Britain [and America [/= Anglo-~Saxon culture]] - the most inventive nation in the world, they got another thing coming! They need to realize that ‘freedom of’ the given, is not the same as freedom. Freedom of the press implies freedom to them but not to everyone else, and in practice what do we get! Freedom + of movement, of people, will naturally happen and increase as mobilization increases. Yet mass economic migration of poorer to richer and from particular cultures into the given culture, is not freedom for all and is forced. People who don’t otherwise want to move away from their friends and families, are being coerced and enticed into making that move. Even if masses of people all did want to move to e.g. Britain or America, there is no balance of numbers occurring. for example when people from the Anglo-Saxon culture ask themselves ‘are there as many of us in Mexico as Mexicans in America’, they get the answer, no. Does Obama and Clinton consider this when they are being ‘in it for everyone’? e.g. Obama will be thinking of the plight of his people [when he replaced the statues of Churchill with martin Luther] and their ilk, and not considering the weightedness of relative amounts between Hispanic and Anglo-Saxon culture number values.
One who says they are in it for everyone, are in truth in it for themselves, their families, their peers and their people. Those who do say they are in it for themselves and their people, are being honest!
Amorphous: it’s all a hall of mirrors filled with smoke. aNot unlike that glittering hall in Paris where they so pompously signed the First World War peace treaty.
Don’t believe anything but that Trump is nothing but a would be figure head, a bankrupted silver mouthed demogouge, and a failed reality star who could not even get a prize.
The glaring fact is that humanity has reached the dire crossroad that if it ill not embrace itself as one people, their egos,jeolousy and divisiveness would most certainly destroy itself. No doubt about it we must all give up our identities other whys we are doomed
This is lunacy. This has literally never happened in the history of Man in any peaceful manner where it didn’t result in or stem from violence, furthermore, any time it HAS been tried, it results in nothing good. This is nothing new jerky, we are no more at a crossroads in the way you are thinking than has happened any number of times before.
Just how do you propose we “give up” our identities? What about those who won’t do it?
How about some food for thought. If we didn’t give any breathing room to those ideas at all in the first place (ie. remained ethno-nationalists) most of these issues wouldn’t be issues. And that doesn’t mean we have to be “isolationist xenophobes”. The only way to have true diversity is to preserve it.
To do as you say, with free will and human nature in the mix, necessitates forced miscegenation, sterilization, persecution or a combination thereof.
Remember people. Who you were born as is NOT an “accident”. If your parents didn’t meet and mate, and their parents, and their parents, and so on and so forth, you would not exist. You aren’t LUCKY to be born X in the sense that if every single thing that happened up until the point of your birth did not happen in that exact way, there is a large possibility that you wouldn’t have been born at all. The same goes for advancements, achievements, and development of the civilization. Put it this way, you aren’t LUCKY to have been born X instead of Y, because if you had been born Y you wouldn’t be you. You would be someone else. This is exactly the reason why we have every right to be proud of our heritages, history, and the achievements of others in our racial/ethnic groups. Because nothing is by accident, history happened exactly as it did and there is no such thing as ‘if this was different you would be X’. And unless you are falling on a religious type argument, you cannot make the case that we are disembodied souls that are placed in X body vs Y and are therefore LUCKY to be born X.
I am not looking at the platitudes, the jargon. Just resemblances.
They are beginning to dance the three step again, Europe:? The intellectual elite, breadbasket, motherload, inexplicable and myth/eoric, , the US, constitutionally incapable to experience a thousand year cultural evolution. In 200 year wild, western tradition.
The other third, the synthetic ideologues of Moscow, equally on the attack do understand, how long have they yearned to be in the court of Europa.
The dance is as elegant as any minuette, and in answer to your newer, for sure it was created such and such, the ideas sculpted as the had to be, their processes described well in annals as of primary and secondary procecedures, whereby those not capable of passing through certain thresholds are condemned to repeat the very mistakes of projecting fear and hate. Except now, the whole bundoogle would go back to the ashes from which they initially arose.
Hilary tried one way, it don’t work, and someone had to be held accountable.
I see no need for a circle of mutually respecting parties to loose their identity. I have never understood or agreed with the idea that for one id to be strong it has to make the next look weak. There are too many people like that in the world, and it is the thing which makes it suck.
Mimisbrunnr
I take your point, however I do think we are in a unique time;
1.devices that can build virtually anything from carbons, will happen and change everything.
2.The earth’s resources will be soon eaten all up by china etc.
We don’t have time to pander any more, so although we have always done things like you say, if we continue along that path we’’ be back in the stone age before long. Hmm I suppose that might not be exactly true, because once you can build things that don’t break or wear much at all, then we wont be using up metals any more. Not to mention that if all cars in 10 yrs are electric, all roofs are solar panelled, and all dirty industry has gone, then energy and a clean planet wont be a problem.
I think you have already touched on the most basic truth to this:
And we only have any kind of clue about the peoples in regions we are most familiar with. In the most basic sense this is why it will never happen, even with everything else resolved and whether we are in a unique time or not. This cannot be achieved without coercion which may be stating things very mildly.
You can just stop right there. All immigration is not created equally. Bringing in laborers from other countries is not the same thing as bringing in radical Muslim refugees who won’t be happy until your country institutes Sharia law. Even though both groups are brownish, it’s not the same thing.
Nobody wants radical Muslims around, ok? It’s not about fucking color, and “If you let people into the country this one time, you have to let everybody into the country all the time” is just retarded. Try harder. You need an influx of poor people to knit your socks or pump your gas? There’s plenty of brown people in Honduras that would love to do that I’m sure, and they won’t even try to marry your 12 year old daughter or murder you for eating a BLT. If you’re letting in unidentifiable Syrians, it’s not because you need them for anything, it’s because your leftist ideology has left you too spineless to say ‘no’. You’d rather let ISIS into your country than face a Swede calling you racist.
Well yeah, you can tell he’s the establishment, because The Democratic Party, the Republican Party, the unions, the media, Hollywood, wall street and Silicon Valley all supported him and donated to him so much.
Oh so we determine what group he’s a part of by who supported him? That makes him a white supremacist and an honorary Russian (a nation were enemies of the politicians in charge are routinely arrested and or assassinated).
Trump is as fucking elite as they come. The fact that he’s a billionaire from NYC makes him elite by definition (hell, everyone and anyone from NYC is an elite according to the right wing media machine - except Trump, they always seem to forget where he’s from, and that he’s a stinking rich political insider who’s been donating to the campaigns of establishment politicians on both sides of the aisle for most of his adult life, and all the other facts about him that make him exactly everything they claim to be against).
The willful denial, rational gymnastics and outright lies that Republicans and conservatives are resorting to in order to justify their brazenly hypocritical support for Trump are truly feats to behold! And apparently the ILP social-sciences forum has moved to the forefront of the whitewash-Trump’-image movement (pun only sort of intended)
“The fact he is a billionaire from New York makes him an elitist.” … lol.
Nice to see your ideology so clearly.
Trump already denounced KKK and white supremacist support. The reason they support him is because he is more nationalistic than other candidates and because he isn’t “politics as usual”, namely he isn’t PC. Just because the KKK idiots don’t want PC, so they can push their stupid agenda, doesn’t somehow mean that PC a good thing.
My response wasn’t “rote”, and I despise the (Christian libertarian and neocon) right wing almost as much as I despise brainwashed zombie-army PC liberal fascists like you. The left and right only exist because most people can’t manage to do any real thinking, they just react pre-programmed, so the statistical curve of thought at the societal level divided naturally into half-thoughts in either side, “right and left”, to compensate for that.
As I said, the Obama presidency is a massive failure. Political correctness is a terrible inhuman poison. The loony left has been lying about Trump from the start, right from saying over and over “he called Mexicans criminals and rapists!!”… um no, he never said that, nor did he mean that.
That wasn’t the case when our Govt. brought Pakistanis here though, as it was long before all this Isis shit. I would add a small caveat, there are people who come to ones country who hate it [e.g. some Mexicans [hate Americans for being rich because they think that’s why they are poor, and obvious reasons for Muslims] and are it enemies by their own will, then there are people who don’t consider themselves to be our enemies. Now if we consider the proportions? You probably got about 1% baddies, so we all we need to do with them is make an epicentre or two, ‘allow’ munitions to get to them so they can keep fighting, and the baddies mostly will go join the brotherhood and get killed.
One should be as selective as possible, but how do you choose bad ones from the good ones. Ok so maybe people from Honduras might not be so potentially bad, but if they end up on MW jobs and poverty, they are going to start hating on you. Ergo it is not the liberal policies of more equality in wages that’s the problem but the lack of it!
Yes, and he immediately changed his tune once he got the vote.
uglypeoplefucking
I noticed all the top Jews [left and right] have gone from British politics, is that occurring in America too? then 5 years time it will all be back to how it was perhaps?
When the group is a made up bullshit term that exists for no reason other than to make somebody sound suspicious, then I suppose you can determine it however you want. I’m sure I can be termed part of the political establishment the moment it suits some liberal’s ends to say so. But yes, for those to whom words have meanings and not merely tactical uses, it’s fucking dumb as hell to call Trump part of the establishment. Well, before he’s sworn in I mean.
That liberals want to call him establishment and alt-right at the same time shouldn’t give you a moment’s pause no matter how contradictory it sounds; it’s simply a question of which label suits your ends best in whatever conversation you happen to be having.
You lost me. Are you in favor of defining somebody by their associations or against it. Also, I thought the term we were discussing was ‘establishment’ not ‘elite’. I mean, I know it matters little to a liberal, they’re both ‘e’ words that roughly translate to “people I hate”. Sure, Trump is part of the financial elite. Being part of the political establishment is a complete other thing.
OK. So, you seem to have not realized that we’re talking about establishment, or that that is different from ‘elite’. Come back when you cleared that up with yourself.
Right. Before all this ISIS shit was…before all this ISIS shit. I’m sure there will be some time in the future where the situation has changed enough that it makes sense to allow Pakistanis into western nations once more.
I have no idea what this gobledegook is supposed to mean, but 1% of immigrants hating our guts and being our enemies is entirely too many when we have no obligation to bring anybody in in the first place.
That’s a good question, but it’s not as though we are absolutely required to allow 10,000 Arabs into our country and thus forced to make due with imperfect methods to identify them. If there is no way to choose the bad ones from the good ones, then you obviously don’t let in anybody. So for example a Muslim nation full of terrorists in which they make no great effort to record or document the identity of their own citizens. If you don’t know who any of them are, you don’t let any in. Or if there was some South American nation in which rape wasn’t illegal, and so the state kept no record of who was and was not a serial rapist, you wouldn’t let any of them in either.
Maybe in a socialist fantasy where everybody is awakened to the fact that the only thing they should care about is their economic class, and poor people are automatically full of rage against people more wealthy than them. But we know this isn’t reality, that’s one of the reasons socialism continually fails. In the real world, poor people are completely capable of loving their country, especially if they came from an country that was even more poor and riddled with disease, yearly political revolutions or whatever the fuck is going on in Honduras.
Well, obviously the problem in that scenario would be the liberal policy that thought it was a good idea to bring in boatloads of Hondurans the job market couldn’t support in the first place. If your economy can’t keep people out of destitution without artificial rules forcing wage equality where it would not exist in a free market, why are you bringing in tens of thousands of mouths to feed from elsewhere in the first place?
About what? It remains the fact that the GOP, the DNC, Wall Street, Hollywood and the media all had naked contempt for Trump, and so it remains the case that calling him part of the political establishment is fucking dumb.
I thought you were some far left guy who was licking up all the PC/SJW stuff these days. Am I thinking of somebody else with a similar name, or are you going through a change of heart?
I was lucky to be able to unplug myself from the political correct liberal-leftie Matrix. I had something help in that regard, but ultimately Trump was a catalyst. I saw how the left was lying about him and catastrophizing everything out of proportion, that was enough for me to realize the zombie fascist nature of politically correct modern leftism. But I am still in support of classically liberal values for the most part, and there are some issue where I think the modern liberal-left gets it right. Also I don’t really like the right wing much either. Luckily it isn’t either-or, we can and should pick and choose from all political sides those things which are true and make the most sense, and reject all the rest.
There’s a lot of that sort of sentiment going around the past couple years. I saw it in 2014- people woke up to the lies of the media, and thus the far left in general, as a result of GamerGate. I think the Trump thing was even bigger. It’s good that you don’t like the far-right either, though. You see a lot of people realize they’ve been lied to for years and they go WAYYYYYY too far in the other direction.