Veterans to Natives - We're sorry!

Pandora · December 7, 2016, 3:48am

huffingtonpost.com/entry/for … b31398b199

And they lived happily ever after.

The_Golden_Turd · December 7, 2016, 4:15am

My old unit didn’t start till WW2, so I’m not sorry I guess, if that’s how we are assigning blane. Besides, by First Sargent was a drunken Indian from Idaho, so he got some serious reparations off us through pure misery inflicted on us.

What are Indians in these units supposed to do? Or foreigners from Russia or Mexico or Sweden or Germany? They will wonder why they are told to apologize, especially if the unit history shows the unit was deactivated for decades and moved all over.

The all black unit of Buffalo Soldiers is now a mostly white stryker unit up in Fairbanks, Alaska, around natives who were never opposed beyond maybe some weekend barfights. Are the white soldiers supposed to feel proud of their black heritage then travel out to some igloo and apologize for some shit in the 19th century that happened in the lower 48?

Much better for the whites in a non-military capacity, if they find in their family tree they did something, to directly apologize for their family, don’t blame manufactured and nebulous military units for this. They guts currently in have no relation to those who were in generations agocir centuries. They didn’t do it.

From what I can tell, worst my family did to Indians was we stole a horse from a white guy, white guy went to the Indians thinking they had it, but didn’t, so they lent him a horse, and he found one of my ancestors riding his horse… So clever guy he was, bashed the guy upside his head when he ride up to ask for it back… and so took both horses.

Government got a hold of him, was made to give back both horses, and was whipped by the Indians for being a douchebag horse thieve.

I’m not going to go to that tribe and apologize, giving my ancestor received punishment for it already. He later on moved near a indian tribe and many kids intermarried. Not sure why I, descended from a son who didn’t marry, should act apologetic while my cousins who are Indians on reservations should act the victims, they are equally liable, if liable at all at this point.

Not a big fan of these games. I would like the Mingo tribe to move back to the Ohio Valley, not on a reservation, just to move back. Here they are suffering on a reservation with suicide and drinking issues. Doubt anyone would have issue with them uprooting and returning home.

Uccisore · December 8, 2016, 9:36am

Maybe when this is over, the indians so graciously accepting this apology can go apologize to the remnants of whatever tribe they butchered for the patch of dirt they were squatting on before the Europeans arrived. And then maybe we can call go apologize to some Neaderthal bones for beating them out of existence.

Is_Yde_opN · December 8, 2016, 12:27pm

The 16-year-old girl’s once-beautiful face was grotesque.
She had been disfigured beyond all recognition in the 18 months she had been held captive by the Comanche Indians.
Now, she was being offered back to the Texan authorities by Indian chiefs as part of a peace negotiation.
To gasps of horror from the watching crowds, the Indians presented her at the Council House in the ranching town of San Antonio in 1840, the year Queen Victoria married Prince Albert.

‘Her head, arms and face were full of bruises and sores,’ wrote one witness, Mary Maverick. ‘And her nose was actually burnt off to the bone. Both nostrils were wide open and denuded of flesh.’

Once handed over, Matilda Lockhart broke down as she described the horrors she had endured — the rape, the relentless sexual humiliation and the way Comanche women had tortured her with fire. It wasn’t just her nose, her thin body was hideously scarred all over with burns.

When she mentioned she thought there were 15 other white captives at the Indians’ camp, all of them being subjected to a similar fate, the Texan lawmakers and officials said they were detaining the Comanche chiefs while they rescued the others.

It was a decision that prompted one of the most brutal slaughters in the history of the Wild West — and showed just how bloodthirsty the Comanche could be in revenge.

S C Gwynne, author of Empire Of The Summer Moon about the rise and fall of the Comanche, says simply: ‘No tribe in the history of the Spanish, French, Mexican, Texan, and American occupations of this land had ever caused so much havoc and death. None was even a close second.’
He refers to the ‘demonic immorality’ of Comanche attacks on white settlers, the way in which torture, killings and gang-rapes were routine. ‘The logic of Comanche raids was straightforward,’ he explains

‘All the men were killed, and any men who were captured alive were tortured; the captive women were gang raped. Babies were invariably killed.’

When that Indian delegation to San Antonio realised they were to be detained, they tried to fight their way out with bows and arrows and knives — killing any Texan they could get at. In turn, Texan soldiers opened fire, slaughtering 35 Comanche, injuring many more and taking 29 prisoner.
But the Comanche tribe’s furious response knew no bounds. When the Texans suggested they swap the Comanche prisoners for their captives, the Indians tortured every one of those captives to death instead.

‘One by one, the children and young women were pegged out naked beside the camp fire,’ according to a contemporary account. ‘They were skinned, sliced, and horribly mutilated, and finally burned alive by vengeful women determined to wring the last shriek and convulsion from their agonised bodies. Matilda Lockhart’s six-year-old sister was among these unfortunates who died screaming under the high plains moon.’

Not only were the Comanche specialists in torture, they were also the most ferocious and successful warriors — indeed, they become known as ‘Lords of the Plains’.

…

Spiritual and in tune with nature.
Gotta watch some Dr. Quinn.

Is_Yde_opN · December 8, 2016, 1:23pm

I had to look into the news… shouldn’t have done it.

Wes Clark Jr. leading an apology to the Indians at Standing Rock.
→ Wes “Fellow White People” Clark Jr.

Every. Single. Time.
It’s not even funny anymore…

Okay, a little bit, lol.

Ultimate_Philosophy · December 8, 2016, 1:26pm

Not all Native Americans were like that.

Many tribes were peace loving.

I’d say America is as evil as the Comanche, because they named their attack helicopter the Comanche. Which means America supports the evil Comanche tribe.

I myself am Native American, was part of a Northern tribe, we were nothing like the Comanche. Using only the example of the Comanche in a Native American topic would be like using China as the only example of Asia, or quoting the actions of the prime minister of Canadians in a thread about Venezuelans.

I don’t think Veterans owe us an apology, I don’t think sons should pay for their father’s crimes. I think America owes us an apology, not not any individual person in America except maybe a Rockefeller or someone.

Is_Yde_opN · December 8, 2016, 1:52pm

Let’s hope for their own sake that they were not too peaceful as to be driven away and be replaced by the non-peaceful Indian tribes.

It’s all about making a buck or two, squeezing it from the very society which is being condemned.

And another one…

F…
Ffffelllow Wyte Peepl.

Will it ever end?
HarHar!

Ultimate_Philosophy · December 8, 2016, 2:00pm

Peace loving, relatively speaking. Peace loving, as in love a Colt Peacemaker 44 revolver if we ever encounter a hostile tribe.

Is_Yde_opN · December 8, 2016, 2:13pm

Tell you what.

When you are poor and starving and you don’t get no food for making big eyes or invoking some social justice drama then you take what you need or you die. Then that becomes your morality and the morality of your people.

If you are successful and well-fed then you become about defending what you have. You are well satiated and you don’t need to expand to live a life of splendour and slow degeneration.

When you have become so degenerated that you are even too cowardly to defend what you have then you give away the stuff of your former ally and neighbour to try and maintain your lifestyle. Hey, you can even expand on that strategy and take your own cut as well from the stuff of your betrayed ally.
Neat.

Ultimate_Philosophy · December 8, 2016, 2:18pm

Poor people still have ideals. That is what seperates us from the savages, its what seperates my tribe from the comanche

Is_Yde_opN · December 8, 2016, 2:48pm

Like the ideal to provide for the poor…

Not everything about the Comanches is bad.
It takes guts to take things by force if the other is not a pansy.

I posted that gruesome aspect to dispel the catlady crocodile tears and narrative.
How sickening this display of “We’re sorry.” would have to be to someone who actually lived at the Western frontier at the time.

But really, it’s just guilt inducing scheming for shekels and dollars. That’s just their nature.

Ultimate_Philosophy · December 8, 2016, 2:50pm

The Comanches fighting for their tribe is not evil, the manner in which they fought was degenerate,savage, and evil.

The whites fought in a degenerate, ignoble manner as well. It started out that way against the redcoats, hiding in trees and disobeying the rules.But it got worse with the Indians, they lied and cheated the indians into submission

Is_Yde_opN · December 8, 2016, 2:56pm

How did they do that?
Did they lecture them at the Manitou university about the Indian privilege and how Europeans have just as much right to America as them, because they are themselves the descendants of Asian conquerors who killed the former native population on the continent?

Ultimate_Philosophy · December 8, 2016, 3:00pm

Not exactly, but you do have a point. Liberals are the oppressors in the same manner and tactics that conquerors of lands and tribes are also oppressors.

gib · December 8, 2016, 10:15pm

Is apologizing for the crimes of your ancestors the same as admitting personal guilt? Or is it a gesture of compassion? How will that be interpreted?

And what happens now? Do they act like nothing ever happened and they’re best buddies forever? Or will the natives continue hanging guilt over their heads any time they feel it’s convenient? As in: hey, you just admitted guilt, you’re the bad guy here, you owe me.

And what really makes up for the crimes of the past? Does a public and heartfelt apology do it? Or does it require something more? I mean, certainly, saying “sorry”–even saying sorry publicly, falling to your knees and delivering a whole speech–doesn’t even stack up to murder, rape, scalping, robbery of land, etc., followed by years of discrimination–will they one day demand that the white race undergo this as the only acceptable apology?

Pandora · December 9, 2016, 1:44am

Is_Yde_opN:

The 16-year-old girl’s once-beautiful face was grotesque.
She had been disfigured beyond all recognition in the 18 months she had been held captive by the Comanche Indians.
Now, she was being offered back to the Texan authorities by Indian chiefs as part of a peace negotiation.
To gasps of horror from the watching crowds, the Indians presented her at the Council House in the ranching town of San Antonio in 1840, the year Queen Victoria married Prince Albert.

‘Her head, arms and face were full of bruises and sores,’ wrote one witness, Mary Maverick. ‘And her nose was actually burnt off to the bone. Both nostrils were wide open and denuded of flesh.’

Once handed over, Matilda Lockhart broke down as she described the horrors she had endured — the rape, the relentless sexual humiliation and the way Comanche women had tortured her with fire. It wasn’t just her nose, her thin body was hideously scarred all over with burns.

When she mentioned she thought there were 15 other white captives at the Indians’ camp, all of them being subjected to a similar fate, the Texan lawmakers and officials said they were detaining the Comanche chiefs while they rescued the others.

It was a decision that prompted one of the most brutal slaughters in the history of the Wild West — and showed just how bloodthirsty the Comanche could be in revenge.

S C Gwynne, author of Empire Of The Summer Moon about the rise and fall of the Comanche, says simply: ‘No tribe in the history of the Spanish, French, Mexican, Texan, and American occupations of this land had ever caused so much havoc and death. None was even a close second.’
He refers to the ‘demonic immorality’ of Comanche attacks on white settlers, the way in which torture, killings and gang-rapes were routine. ‘The logic of Comanche raids was straightforward,’ he explains

‘All the men were killed, and any men who were captured alive were tortured; the captive women were gang raped. Babies were invariably killed.’

When that Indian delegation to San Antonio realised they were to be detained, they tried to fight their way out with bows and arrows and knives — killing any Texan they could get at. In turn, Texan soldiers opened fire, slaughtering 35 Comanche, injuring many more and taking 29 prisoner.
But the Comanche tribe’s furious response knew no bounds. When the Texans suggested they swap the Comanche prisoners for their captives, the Indians tortured every one of those captives to death instead.

‘One by one, the children and young women were pegged out naked beside the camp fire,’ according to a contemporary account. ‘They were skinned, sliced, and horribly mutilated, and finally burned alive by vengeful women determined to wring the last shriek and convulsion from their agonised bodies. Matilda Lockhart’s six-year-old sister was among these unfortunates who died screaming under the high plains moon.’

Not only were the Comanche specialists in torture, they were also the most ferocious and successful warriors — indeed, they become known as ‘Lords of the Plains’.

…

Spiritual and in tune with nature.
Gotta watch some Dr. Quinn.

Where is this information from? Can you link me to it? I just want to see the original source/historical account (notes, journals, photos, etc.)

Fixed_Cross · December 9, 2016, 6:28am

Pandora:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/forgiveness-ceremony-unites-veterans-and-natives-at-standing-rock-casino_us_5845cdbbe4b055b31398b199

Many of us, me particularly, are from the units that have hurt you over the many years. We came. We fought you. We took your land. We signed treaties that we broke. We stole minerals from your sacred hills. We blasted the faces of our presidents onto your sacred mountain. When we took still more land and then we took your children and then we tried to make your language and we tried to eliminate your language that God gave you, and the Creator gave you. We didn’t respect you, we polluted your Earth, we’ve hurt you in so many ways but we’ve come to say that we are sorry. We are at your service and we beg for your forgiveness.

Chief Leonard Crow Dog offered forgiveness and urged for world peace, responding that “we do not own the land, the land owns us.”

Well well, this signifies the birth of warrior pride in the United States.

Mockery is inappropriate, this is the retrieval of honor lost abroad on the own soil.
Welcome to reality, America.

Pleased to meet you.

In some time Europe may dare to try to follow but that is of no urgent concern. The US is turning into a philosophical state.

Kriswest · December 9, 2016, 10:58am

Want to piss off American Indians, tell the fanatic ones online that anyone born on the American continents is a Native American. They then will say they are indigenous to America. Get the definition and point out that their ancestors migrated here. Be polite , be respectful. Watch the insults fly at you. I was called a bitch and whore… made me laugh. There are fanatics in every group, they are so easy to poke

gib · December 9, 2016, 3:43pm

I don’t have any gripes with showing gestures of compassion. What I have gripes with is guilt by association. The far left these days are looking at the entire group as the basic unit of blame. It’s the white race who raped and pillaged and stole the natives’ land, not individual people. The race has a continuous identity through the ages, so what one race did 3 hundred years ago is what the same race today did. But the actual individuals who did those things 3 hundred years ago are long since dead. It makes no sense to blame individuals who are around today for the crimes of their ancestors–or worse, members of the targeted group who simply came into the group but whose ancestors weren’t even part of the group back then. Guilt is not a plague that gets passed on just by making physical contact or through biological lineage–this isn’t original sin. And the same applies to the victims: victimization doesn’t get passed on. You’re not a victim just because your great, great, great grandfather was a victim. People ought to be judged based on what they do in this life, and victim status on what happens to a person in this life.

So sure, a show of compassion by way of a public apology is a great way to show that you’re not like your ancestors, and I wouldn’t discourage it, but it’s not owed. The only thing I would discourage is the latter interpretation.

Kriswest · December 9, 2016, 5:56pm

I agree