My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby James L Walker » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:11 pm

Then there is some of us trying to co-opt the movement as we speak......

That's why they call it splinter groups.
"The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual crime."
-Max Stirner-


"Laws are made by governments and are enforced by violence." - Leo Tolstoy-

"I am a disciple of chaos. I like to watch civilization burn and despair." - By Me

"Propaganda of the deed." - Bonnot Gang 1912

"My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet airplane. My son's son will ride a camel just like my father before him."- Arab Peak Oil Proverb

"Civilization is nothing more than a globalized overly worshipped farm where the owners violently and oppressively domesticate other human beings like enslaved cattle enforcing the direction of their labors for their own individual profit."- Random Anarcho Primitivist
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Flannel Jesus » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:15 pm

that's why? really?
i thought they were called splinter groups because a splinter is a piece of a larger thing which has broken off, just like the splinter group breaks off from the larger group...but maybe that's not why. maybe they're called splinter groups because some of you are trying to co-opt the movement as we speak...
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Duality » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:18 pm

aletheia wrote:
Duality wrote:1. Guattari died like 20 years ago so Im pretty sure he didn’t say this is his impression of the occupy movement + it sounds like you have no idea what the premise of his philosophy actually was.


Way to contribute absolutely nothing.

Thanks

aletheia wrote:You could at least try and give yourself the appearance of substance... or would that expose too much, open you up to too much possible criticism?

Why is it necessary to give substance? Just for the sake of giving substance? Just because you say so?..

aletheia wrote:Why are you here?

Why do I need a reason to be here?

aletheia wrote:If you've got something to say, by all means, say it.

I just did
"A truth is not necessary, because we negatively are not able to conceive the actual existence of the opposite thereof;but a truth is necessary when we positively are able to apprehend that the negation thereof includes an inevitable contradiction. It is not that that we can see how the opposite comes to be true, but it is that the opposite can not possibly be true." -R.L. Dabney

"Those then who know not wisdom and virtue, and are always busy with gluttony and sensuality, go down and up again as far as the mean; and in this region they move at random throughout life, but they never pass into the true upper world; thither they neither look, nor do they ever find their way, neither are they truly filled with true being, nor do they ever taste of pure and abiding pleasure." -Socrates
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby James L Walker » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:21 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote:that's why? really?
i thought they were called splinter groups because a splinter is a piece of a larger thing which has broken off, just like the splinter group breaks off from the larger group...but maybe that's not why. maybe they're called splinter groups because some of you are trying to co-opt the movement as we speak...


maybe they're called splinter groups because some of you are trying to co-opt the movement as we speak...


Well, which is it then?
"The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual crime."
-Max Stirner-


"Laws are made by governments and are enforced by violence." - Leo Tolstoy-

"I am a disciple of chaos. I like to watch civilization burn and despair." - By Me

"Propaganda of the deed." - Bonnot Gang 1912

"My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet airplane. My son's son will ride a camel just like my father before him."- Arab Peak Oil Proverb

"Civilization is nothing more than a globalized overly worshipped farm where the owners violently and oppressively domesticate other human beings like enslaved cattle enforcing the direction of their labors for their own individual profit."- Random Anarcho Primitivist
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Flannel Jesus » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:25 pm

guess you can't read between the lines. one of my proposed answers is sarcastic. guess which one.
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby James L Walker » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:27 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote:guess you can't read between the lines. one of my proposed answers is sarcastic. guess which one.


Either be straight forward or stop posting. I don't have time to read between the lines.
"The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual crime."
-Max Stirner-


"Laws are made by governments and are enforced by violence." - Leo Tolstoy-

"I am a disciple of chaos. I like to watch civilization burn and despair." - By Me

"Propaganda of the deed." - Bonnot Gang 1912

"My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet airplane. My son's son will ride a camel just like my father before him."- Arab Peak Oil Proverb

"Civilization is nothing more than a globalized overly worshipped farm where the owners violently and oppressively domesticate other human beings like enslaved cattle enforcing the direction of their labors for their own individual profit."- Random Anarcho Primitivist
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Flannel Jesus » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:29 pm

It wasn't that subtle.
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Kriswest » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:48 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote:spoken like a true slave. "Massa's so good to me."

Not that I agree with the protesters, but I don't think the argument "we could have it worse" actually takes anything away from the argument, "we could have it better." Yes, there are people starving, yes, there are people being brutalized, yes, there are people in worse situations. Does that mean we should just give up on improving our own situation? No, it doesn't mean that. Just because other people are being oppressed more does not mean we should be complacent about our own oppression.

What oppression? Cripes if you can afford to do something you can do it. If you can afford to buy something you can buy it. If you feel like going on a road trip in your own car you can do it, oh and hey if you want to live by yourself in a single family home you can do it and bring home Taco Bell every night. Want to talk to your family? pick up your phone and call them or get on your computer. I am not saying we don't have problems I am saying we are not oppressed. Spoiled as hell yes, and we want more yes, which is all good. I want more , you want more, and that is fine. But lets put things into perspective. If we got sold out we did it ourselves by allowing our representatives, our employees, make those decisions without having any consequences. we let them decide how much they are going to get paid, can you do that with your boss? uuuh,, noo. We did it ,we sat back in our laZboys and felt comfortable letting someone decide our fate. We are not oppressed, just indolently stupid. Can we fix it? hell yes, but not this way not protesting there are better ways.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Flannel Jesus » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:21 pm

you're talking about all these choices that people can make that have nothing to do with the government in order to avoid looking at the choices you don't have that do have to do with the government. got a bad case of tunnel vision there.
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby uglypeoplefucking » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:25 pm

Kriswest wrote:
Flannel Jesus wrote:spoken like a true slave. "Massa's so good to me."

Not that I agree with the protesters, but I don't think the argument "we could have it worse" actually takes anything away from the argument, "we could have it better." Yes, there are people starving, yes, there are people being brutalized, yes, there are people in worse situations. Does that mean we should just give up on improving our own situation? No, it doesn't mean that. Just because other people are being oppressed more does not mean we should be complacent about our own oppression.

What oppression? Cripes if you can afford to do something you can do it. If you can afford to buy something you can buy it. If you feel like going on a road trip in your own car you can do it, oh and hey if you want to live by yourself in a single family home you can do it and bring home Taco Bell every night. Want to talk to your family? pick up your phone and call them or get on your computer. I am not saying we don't have problems I am saying we are not oppressed. Spoiled as hell yes, and we want more yes, which is all good. I want more , you want more, and that is fine. But lets put things into perspective. If we got sold out we did it ourselves by allowing our representatives, our employees, make those decisions without having any consequences. we let them decide how much they are going to get paid, can you do that with your boss? uuuh,, noo. We did it ,we sat back in our laZboys and felt comfortable letting someone decide our fate. We are not oppressed, just indolently stupid. Can we fix it? hell yes, but not this way not protesting there are better ways.


i don't think it's about oppression - i think it's about a call for reform and a change of standards - a challenge to the status quo - it's not that these people feel oppressed, it's that they feel cheated by the system, those are two different things.

Kris is right about these people not being oppressed, but Flannel is right that even though some people have it worse, the system is still a legitimate target for protest.
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Duality » Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:58 pm

1. This is the most important movement in the history of the world since the Revolutionary War, The Russian Revolution and the French Revolution.


2. Occupy must either emerge victorious or we will regress back to the proverbial stone age. This is undoubtedly the beginning of the next stage in human evolution.


3. Most of the scumbags living in our countries have no concept of human compassion or civic responsibility, so all they can see is their pathetic little spheres of resources being cut down.
"A truth is not necessary, because we negatively are not able to conceive the actual existence of the opposite thereof;but a truth is necessary when we positively are able to apprehend that the negation thereof includes an inevitable contradiction. It is not that that we can see how the opposite comes to be true, but it is that the opposite can not possibly be true." -R.L. Dabney

"Those then who know not wisdom and virtue, and are always busy with gluttony and sensuality, go down and up again as far as the mean; and in this region they move at random throughout life, but they never pass into the true upper world; thither they neither look, nor do they ever find their way, neither are they truly filled with true being, nor do they ever taste of pure and abiding pleasure." -Socrates
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Pezerocles » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:01 pm

Duality wrote:1. This is the most important movement in the history of the world since the Revolutionary War, The Russian Revolution and the French Revolution.


2. Occupy must either emerge victorious or we will regress back to the proverbial stone age. This is undoubtedly the beginning of the next stage in human evolution.


3. Most of the scumbags living in our countries have no concept of human compassion or civic responsibility, so all they can see is their pathetic little spheres of resources being cut down.


Wow... guy...

"2. Occupy must either emerge victorious or we will regress back to the proverbial stone age. This is undoubtedly the beginning of the next stage in human evolution."

How much money are you willing to bet that none of that happens? I'll equal whatever you say.
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Duality » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:09 pm

Pezer wrote:
Duality wrote:1. This is the most important movement in the history of the world since the Revolutionary War, The Russian Revolution and the French Revolution.


2. Occupy must either emerge victorious or we will regress back to the proverbial stone age. This is undoubtedly the beginning of the next stage in human evolution.


3. Most of the scumbags living in our countries have no concept of human compassion or civic responsibility, so all they can see is their pathetic little spheres of resources being cut down.


Wow... guy...

"2. Occupy must either emerge victorious or we will regress back to the proverbial stone age. This is undoubtedly the beginning of the next stage in human evolution."

How much money are you willing to bet that none of that happens? I'll equal whatever you say.

you'll be saying that even when they are demolishing your house
"A truth is not necessary, because we negatively are not able to conceive the actual existence of the opposite thereof;but a truth is necessary when we positively are able to apprehend that the negation thereof includes an inevitable contradiction. It is not that that we can see how the opposite comes to be true, but it is that the opposite can not possibly be true." -R.L. Dabney

"Those then who know not wisdom and virtue, and are always busy with gluttony and sensuality, go down and up again as far as the mean; and in this region they move at random throughout life, but they never pass into the true upper world; thither they neither look, nor do they ever find their way, neither are they truly filled with true being, nor do they ever taste of pure and abiding pleasure." -Socrates
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Pezerocles » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:42 pm

Duality wrote:
Pezer wrote:
Duality wrote:1. This is the most important movement in the history of the world since the Revolutionary War, The Russian Revolution and the French Revolution.


2. Occupy must either emerge victorious or we will regress back to the proverbial stone age. This is undoubtedly the beginning of the next stage in human evolution.


3. Most of the scumbags living in our countries have no concept of human compassion or civic responsibility, so all they can see is their pathetic little spheres of resources being cut down.


Wow... guy...

"2. Occupy must either emerge victorious or we will regress back to the proverbial stone age. This is undoubtedly the beginning of the next stage in human evolution."

How much money are you willing to bet that none of that happens? I'll equal whatever you say.

you'll be saying that even when they are demolishing your house


How old are you? Or I guess my point is, how many protest movements do you know about?

$1000
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Duality » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:56 am

Pezer wrote:How old are you? Or I guess my point is, how many protest movements do you know about?

$1000


1. If a revolution happens, do you really think your petty currency will have any more value?

2. I am not interested in money. If I was, I wouldn’t be doing philosophy.

3. Guys like me are only born for one purpose. To turn that spark into an inferno.

4. The people forge their own destinies. Guys like me only exist to send the message.
"A truth is not necessary, because we negatively are not able to conceive the actual existence of the opposite thereof;but a truth is necessary when we positively are able to apprehend that the negation thereof includes an inevitable contradiction. It is not that that we can see how the opposite comes to be true, but it is that the opposite can not possibly be true." -R.L. Dabney

"Those then who know not wisdom and virtue, and are always busy with gluttony and sensuality, go down and up again as far as the mean; and in this region they move at random throughout life, but they never pass into the true upper world; thither they neither look, nor do they ever find their way, neither are they truly filled with true being, nor do they ever taste of pure and abiding pleasure." -Socrates
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Pezerocles » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:00 am

Duality wrote:
Pezer wrote:How old are you? Or I guess my point is, how many protest movements do you know about?

$1000


1. If a revolution happens, do you really think your petty currency will have any more value?

2. I am not interested in money. If I was, I wouldn’t be doing philosophy.

3. Guys like me are only born for one purpose. To turn that spark into an inferno.

4. The people forge their own destinies. Guys like me only exist to send the message.


You don't care about money?

Ok then, $5000.
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Kriswest » Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:54 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote:you're talking about all these choices that people can make that have nothing to do with the government in order to avoid looking at the choices you don't have that do have to do with the government. got a bad case of tunnel vision there.

Hardly. Voting and petitions have long been used to change this country. If you want to stop getting screwed by your employees stop paying them, fire them , get new ones in to do the job and make sure they know they won't get their money unless they do their job right. Its rather simple and with all of this technology today its even more simple. Social networking is a valuable tool for reform if used right. Protesting the way they are doing it is an archaic form it does nothing now except give the media something to jabber about. A few thousand people across the country protesting does not represent the millions sitting on their butts watching TV, playing with their puters , talking on twitter, facebook etc. If you want change do it right.

UPF, I mentioned Oppression because that is what the protesters had on their signs. They were claiming oppression and its just plain stupid.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Duality » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:00 pm

Kriswest wrote:
Flannel Jesus wrote:you're talking about all these choices that people can make that have nothing to do with the government in order to avoid looking at the choices you don't have that do have to do with the government. got a bad case of tunnel vision there.

Hardly. Voting and petitions have long been used to change this country. If you want to stop getting screwed by your employees stop paying them, fire them , get new ones in to do the job and make sure they know they won't get their money unless they do their job right. Its rather simple and with all of this technology today its even more simple. Social networking is a valuable tool for reform if used right. Protesting the way they are doing it is an archaic form it does nothing now except give the media something to jabber about. A few thousand people across the country protesting does not represent the millions sitting on their butts watching TV, playing with their puters , talking on twitter, facebook etc. If you want change do it right.

UPF, I mentioned Oppression because that is what the protesters had on their signs. They were claiming oppression and its just plain stupid.

sorry but the corporations already own the government entirely. We passed that point like 25 years ago. please try again.
"A truth is not necessary, because we negatively are not able to conceive the actual existence of the opposite thereof;but a truth is necessary when we positively are able to apprehend that the negation thereof includes an inevitable contradiction. It is not that that we can see how the opposite comes to be true, but it is that the opposite can not possibly be true." -R.L. Dabney

"Those then who know not wisdom and virtue, and are always busy with gluttony and sensuality, go down and up again as far as the mean; and in this region they move at random throughout life, but they never pass into the true upper world; thither they neither look, nor do they ever find their way, neither are they truly filled with true being, nor do they ever taste of pure and abiding pleasure." -Socrates
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Kriswest » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:11 pm

Oh so when you elect your state representatives you have no say? or how about your state constitution have you read that? do you understand that you voluntarily become a US citizen by having a SS number, by using federally funded instutions? Did you know that you don't have to? Did you know that the federal Gover't can only be invited into your state they cannot enter without direct permission? The federal Govt' is its own country for all intents and purposes. You become a citizen by their law when you uses their resources. Just how much Gov't is taught in school these days? Obviously not enough. You and yours just have to use your state level govt' to change things.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Duality » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 pm

Kriswest wrote:Oh so when you elect your state representatives you have no say? or how about your state constitution have you read that? do you understand that you voluntarily become a US citizen by having a SS number, by using federally funded instutions? Did you know that you don't have to? Did you know that the federal Gover't can only be invited into your state they cannot enter without direct permission? The federal Govt' is its own country for all intents and purposes. You become a citizen by their law when you uses their resources. Just how much Gov't is taught in school these days? Obviously not enough. You and yours just have to use your state level govt' to change things.

sorry but the population owns the government not the other way around. please try again.


edit: To distinguish from my last point. The population owns the government physically. The corporations own the government monetarily. Dead currency vs. Violence: see which one wins.
"A truth is not necessary, because we negatively are not able to conceive the actual existence of the opposite thereof;but a truth is necessary when we positively are able to apprehend that the negation thereof includes an inevitable contradiction. It is not that that we can see how the opposite comes to be true, but it is that the opposite can not possibly be true." -R.L. Dabney

"Those then who know not wisdom and virtue, and are always busy with gluttony and sensuality, go down and up again as far as the mean; and in this region they move at random throughout life, but they never pass into the true upper world; thither they neither look, nor do they ever find their way, neither are they truly filled with true being, nor do they ever taste of pure and abiding pleasure." -Socrates
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Kriswest » Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:04 pm

With that attitude and the obvious defeatist attitude of course there will be no change. Those corpororations depend upon your dollar, if you don't give it to them , then what happens?
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby jonquil » Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:03 pm

Well, the occupy movement is indeed about contradicting and sidestepping the corporate system and its enablers, the latest being that stupid chancellor at UC Davis... and of course, Michael Bloomberg... among many many others. OWS is about connectedness and community. That the 1%ers are so afraid of OWSers is interesting and irrational because the movement shows what happens when connectedness and humanity work to show us humans what we're really all about.
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Kriswest » Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:38 pm

I don't see that they are afraid of anyone or anything. The protests are mere speed bumps. They are not hitting the 1% where they can feel it. where are the national boycotts? Where is the selling of their stocks from 401ks? Etc etc. you can't hurt the corporations at all by saying they are bad, you have to stop using their products and owning a part of them.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Pezerocles » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:25 pm

Kriswest wrote:I don't see that they are afraid of anyone or anything. The protests are mere speed bumps. They are not hitting the 1% where they can feel it. where are the national boycotts? Where is the selling of their stocks from 401ks? Etc etc. you can't hurt the corporations at all by saying they are bad, you have to stop using their products and owning a part of them.


Here here!
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Re: My (and Guattari's) impression of the "Occupy Movement"

Postby Duality » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:33 pm

Kriswest wrote:I don't see that they are afraid of anyone or anything.

They’re crapping their pants right now. Most of the chaos factors are just waiting for something to trigger the actual insurgency. Meanwhile, we come and post here in patient anticipation and to divert ourselves.

Image

'Super Committee' Likely to Fail
The leaders of the debt committee indicated that they're unlikely to reach a deal to reduce the deficit by Wednesday's deadline

Super Committee Failure: Bush Tax Cuts Obstacle To Deal
The leaders of a special deficit reduction panel signaled Sunday that they will fail to strike a deal to reduce the deficit before their Wednesday deadline.
Republican opposition to taxing the rich is the main obstacle, Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) said on CNN's "State of the Union."
"There is one sticking divide, and that is the issue of what I call shared sacrifice, where everybody contributes in a very challenging time for our country," Murray said. "That's the Bush tax cuts. In making sure that any kind of package includes everybody coming to the table and the wealthiest of Americans, those who earn over a million dollars every year, have to share, too. And that line in the sand, we haven't seen any Republicans willing to cross yet."


Oops... hehehe
"A truth is not necessary, because we negatively are not able to conceive the actual existence of the opposite thereof;but a truth is necessary when we positively are able to apprehend that the negation thereof includes an inevitable contradiction. It is not that that we can see how the opposite comes to be true, but it is that the opposite can not possibly be true." -R.L. Dabney

"Those then who know not wisdom and virtue, and are always busy with gluttony and sensuality, go down and up again as far as the mean; and in this region they move at random throughout life, but they never pass into the true upper world; thither they neither look, nor do they ever find their way, neither are they truly filled with true being, nor do they ever taste of pure and abiding pleasure." -Socrates
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