The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

For discussions of culture, politics, economics, sociology, law, business and any other topic that falls under the social science remit.

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Calrid » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:26 pm

HexHammer wrote:It would be polite not to use eye roll, when you have put forward a statemen that could be misunderstood, further it would be nice if you could specify to whom you talk, instead of useing genral terms. Replace "you" with a better and more accurate word please.


Er not my problem. I explained, if you don't like it take it to the judge. By which I mean you as in you personal pronoun denoting a single person as opposed to the more formal forum you that refers to a group of people or the OP or topic generally.

It would be polite not to use eyeroll? :roll:
Last edited by Calrid on Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.”

Oscar Wilde - probably.
User avatar
Calrid
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:54 am

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Smirk » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:27 pm

Calrid wrote:I didn't mean you as in you. :roll:

Oh. You meant me as in "one of those Americans."

I see.
No snivelling.
User avatar
Smirk
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:46 pm

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Calrid » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:28 pm

Smirk wrote:
Calrid wrote:I didn't mean you as in you. :roll:

Oh. You meant me as in "one of those Americans."

I see.


No not really but never mind.
“I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.”

Oscar Wilde - probably.
User avatar
Calrid
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:54 am

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Faust » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:49 pm

Calrid - one of the problems you are having is that you have never been to America. TV in america is lame, to say the least. Besides Two and a Half Men, I don't know of a funny sitcom on US television.

The thing about Seinfeld is that it's a very american jewish "You never get away with anything" type of thing.

A synopsis of part of one episode - "Jerry's arch-enemy, Newman, catches Jerry and his current girlfriend making out during "Schindler's List."

Just that line is funny, if you like american self-hating jewish humor. It's not if you don't.

I don't think people hate the US because of its television. It's amazing and frankly puzzling to me just how widespread the distribution of american TV is. The facts seem to be working against you, here.

Many foreigners, in my experience, hate the US until they get here. Until they see Walmart. Or the mind-boggling amount of open space. Or until they experience some of the basic freedoms we have. And this not just from people from third-world hellholes.

When a friend from the Netherlands visited me, he was impressed by the fact that we could have an open fire in the backyard. I love campfires. Can't have them where he lives. On forums, I hear a lot of people from Britain complain that they can't have guns, or most of the knives we have here. I have both - I have never shot or stabbed anyone, by the way. Friends from Romania marvel at the array of consumer goods we have available, at prices that are unheard of over there.

America is and always has been something of a noncountry. While we have been restrictive lately with immigration (in a way - in a way we have not), america will always belong to the world. We are you. If we lack an identity, it's okay. And we're very materialistic - how could we not be? From the beginning, people came here for political freedom and economic opportunity. But it was you who came here.

My maternal ancestors were English - mostly Manx. Mongrels. Methodists. Poor people. My paternal grandparents from Italy - peasants. Shoemakers. Socialists, protestants, anarchists. They couldn't flourish in Italy. They did, here. That's what we are. We are not cultural geniuses like the Czechs. Nor geopolitical giants like Churchill. We have never had a Churchill, and we may never have a Churchill. We're not artistic geniuses like the Russians or the French - but we were a place to thrive when the War started or the artists of St Petersburg truly were starving.

We are what we are. We're good at what we're good at. We can make decent wine now, which we couldn't even forty years ago. We're not as arrogant as we are ignorant and uncaring. We're superficial, mercurial and materialistic. But the american dream is still very much alive. People still come here from nothing and nowhere and make fortunes. That's what we are.
User avatar
Faust
Unrequited Lover of Wisdom
 
Posts: 16846
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 6:47 pm

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Smirk » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:05 pm

Beautiful.
No snivelling.
User avatar
Smirk
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:46 pm

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby turtle » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:45 pm

Smirk wrote:Beautiful.

sniv i think you and cal should come clean.

the english speaking countries need each other bad.
lets forget the european union for now.
cal--how can england help the usa.
sniv----how can the usa help england.
from
turt(arent i a nice reptile)
turtle
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:41 pm

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Calrid » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:46 pm

Faust wrote:Calrid - one of the problems you are having is that you have never been to America. TV in america is lame, to say the least. Besides Two and a Half Men, I don't know of a funny sitcom on US television.

The thing about Seinfeld is that it's a very american jewish "You never get away with anything" type of thing.

A synopsis of part of one episode - "Jerry's arch-enemy, Newman, catches Jerry and his current girlfriend making out during "Schindler's List."

Just that line is funny, if you like american self-hating jewish humor. It's not if you don't.

I don't think people hate the US because of its television. It's amazing and frankly puzzling to me just how widespread the distribution of american TV is. The facts seem to be working against you, here.

Many foreigners, in my experience, hate the US until they get here. Until they see Walmart. Or the mind-boggling amount of open space. Or until they experience some of the basic freedoms we have. And this not just from people from third-world hellholes.

When a friend from the Netherlands visited me, he was impressed by the fact that we could have an open fire in the backyard. I love campfires. Can't have them where he lives. On forums, I hear a lot of people from Britain complain that they can't have guns, or most of the knives we have here. I have both - I have never shot or stabbed anyone, by the way. Friends from Romania marvel at the array of consumer goods we have available, at prices that are unheard of over there.

America is and always has been something of a noncountry. While we have been restrictive lately with immigration (in a way - in a way we have not), america will always belong to the world. We are you. If we lack an identity, it's okay. And we're very materialistic - how could we not be? From the beginning, people came here for political freedom and economic opportunity. But it was you who came here.

My maternal ancestors were English - mostly Manx. Mongrels. Methodists. Poor people. My paternal grandparents from Italy - peasants. Shoemakers. Socialists, protestants, anarchists. They couldn't flourish in Italy. They did, here. That's what we are. We are not cultural geniuses like the Czechs. Nor geopolitical giants like Churchill. We have never had a Churchill, and we may never have a Churchill. We're not artistic geniuses like the Russians or the French - but we were a place to thrive when the War started or the artists of St Petersburg truly were starving.

We are what we are. We're good at what we're good at. We can make decent wine now, which we couldn't even forty years ago. We're not as arrogant as we are ignorant and uncaring. We're superficial, mercurial and materialistic. But the american dream is still very much alive. People still come here from nothing and nowhere and make fortunes. That's what we are.


I don't hate the US, I hate their leaders.

It's hard to hate a nation you identify with so much and its people accordingly. Some of my best friends are from the US. :P

You are what you are and you are good at being what you are, your government is good at representing what you are not. I hope you get over that stumbling block.

I really don't have a personal grudge against any person or people therein, although the whole arrogant asshole thing is kinda wearing thin. What I do have a problem with is morons who run their country into the ground because they are self righteous cocktards and they smell of sulphur. ;)

Luckily the US is learning the hard way that not everyone is in it for the greater good no matter how patriotic they seem, some people are just twats.

Criticise everything about politics if it is a sink hole, because that is that is the only true democracy.

"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!"

Albert Einstein

"Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness."

George Washington

"
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron."

Dwight D. Eisenhower, speech, American Society of Newspaper Editors, 16 April 1953

"Do not... regard the critics as questionable patriots. What were Washington and Jefferson and Adams but profound critics of the colonial status quo?"

Adalai Stephenson.


"Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may."

Mark Twain

Dismiss them as trite or way behind your values, but they were true patriots not sheep.

"What is most important for democracy is not that great fortunes should not exist, but that great fortunes should not remain in the same hands. In that way there are rich men, but they do not form a class."

Alexis de Tocqueville


I would change this quote from they do not form a class to they do not have any class.


I'm highlighting why the world distrusts America and why it is currently so unpopular not trying to establish that my country is all that popular. Wouldn't even try I know we're not that popular, but not in the same league as the US atm.
Last edited by Calrid on Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.”

Oscar Wilde - probably.
User avatar
Calrid
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:54 am

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Gobbo » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:03 pm

I think your shifting all the blame on "them" is a way for you to avoid placing blame on man himself, and a way for you to avoid facing the still present facts that man is in a precarious position regardless of "their" influences. I think you need to see "them" as *THE* bad guy in order sustain your paradigm here. Which is fine. But that is not what I am concerned with here, my concern is the state of things as such, as they are now, and where we are going and ought to go from here. I see "them" as part of the problem, but the are certainly not *THE* problem - they are a manifestation of "the problem", which is man as he is, man's nature and state of being in terms of his intellect, consciousness, conscientiousness, relative to where man ought to be given the state of his relationship to his environment.


Ultimately I think we are quite similar. I see more of the blame on them because I know more about them. I do not (try to) place all of them blame on them.

I can see that you still do not seem to grasp my position very well at all. That is regrettable.


Meh. We can return to this. I'm going to think all this over for the time being, though.
User avatar
Gobbo
Choronzon
 
Posts: 11111
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:23 am
Location: The Belly

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Gobbo » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:05 pm

Faust wrote:We are what we are. We're good at what we're good at.


Wtf..
User avatar
Gobbo
Choronzon
 
Posts: 11111
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:23 am
Location: The Belly

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Faust » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:22 am

Old_Gobbo:
Wtf..


The planes came yesterday. They sprayed. I couldn't get inside in time.

God bless America.
User avatar
Faust
Unrequited Lover of Wisdom
 
Posts: 16846
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 6:47 pm

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Gobbo » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:28 am

You're not saying anything new. It's boring.
User avatar
Gobbo
Choronzon
 
Posts: 11111
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:23 am
Location: The Belly

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Calrid » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:33 am

Faust wrote:Calrid - one of the problems you are having is that you have never been to America. TV in america is lame, to say the least. Besides Two and a Half Men, I don't know of a funny sitcom on US television.

The thing about Seinfeld is that it's a very american jewish "You never get away with anything" type of thing.

A synopsis of part of one episode - "Jerry's arch-enemy, Newman, catches Jerry and his current girlfriend making out during "Schindler's List."

Just that line is funny, if you like american self-hating jewish humor. It's not if you don't.

I don't think people hate the US because of its television. It's amazing and frankly puzzling to me just how widespread the distribution of american TV is. The facts seem to be working against you, here.

Many foreigners, in my experience, hate the US until they get here. Until they see Walmart. Or the mind-boggling amount of open space. Or until they experience some of the basic freedoms we have. And this not just from people from third-world hellholes.

When a friend from the Netherlands visited me, he was impressed by the fact that we could have an open fire in the backyard. I love campfires. Can't have them where he lives. On forums, I hear a lot of people from Britain complain that they can't have guns, or most of the knives we have here. I have both - I have never shot or stabbed anyone, by the way. Friends from Romania marvel at the array of consumer goods we have available, at prices that are unheard of over there.

America is and always has been something of a noncountry. While we have been restrictive lately with immigration (in a way - in a way we have not), america will always belong to the world. We are you. If we lack an identity, it's okay. And we're very materialistic - how could we not be? From the beginning, people came here for political freedom and economic opportunity. But it was you who came here.

My maternal ancestors were English - mostly Manx. Mongrels. Methodists. Poor people. My paternal grandparents from Italy - peasants. Shoemakers. Socialists, protestants, anarchists. They couldn't flourish in Italy. They did, here. That's what we are. We are not cultural geniuses like the Czechs. Nor geopolitical giants like Churchill. We have never had a Churchill, and we may never have a Churchill. We're not artistic geniuses like the Russians or the French - but we were a place to thrive when the War started or the artists of St Petersburg truly were starving.

We are what we are. We're good at what we're good at. We can make decent wine now, which we couldn't even forty years ago. We're not as arrogant as we are ignorant and uncaring. We're superficial, mercurial and materialistic. But the american dream is still very much alive. People still come here from nothing and nowhere and make fortunes. That's what we are.


None of that changes the actions of your dimwit presidents though does it.
“I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.”

Oscar Wilde - probably.
User avatar
Calrid
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:54 am

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Jakob » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:05 pm

Faust wrote:Calrid - one of the problems you are having is that you have never been to America. TV in america is lame, to say the least. Besides Two and a Half Men, I don't know of a funny sitcom on US television.

The thing about Seinfeld is that it's a very american jewish "You never get away with anything" type of thing.

A synopsis of part of one episode - "Jerry's arch-enemy, Newman, catches Jerry and his current girlfriend making out during "Schindler's List."

Just that line is funny, if you like american self-hating jewish humor. It's not if you don't.

I don't think people hate the US because of its television. It's amazing and frankly puzzling to me just how widespread the distribution of american TV is. The facts seem to be working against you, here.

Many foreigners, in my experience, hate the US until they get here. Until they see Walmart. Or the mind-boggling amount of open space. Or until they experience some of the basic freedoms we have. And this not just from people from third-world hellholes.

When a friend from the Netherlands visited me, he was impressed by the fact that we could have an open fire in the backyard. I love campfires. Can't have them where he lives. On forums, I hear a lot of people from Britain complain that they can't have guns, or most of the knives we have here. I have both - I have never shot or stabbed anyone, by the way. Friends from Romania marvel at the array of consumer goods we have available, at prices that are unheard of over there.

America is and always has been something of a noncountry. While we have been restrictive lately with immigration (in a way - in a way we have not), america will always belong to the world. We are you. If we lack an identity, it's okay. And we're very materialistic - how could we not be? From the beginning, people came here for political freedom and economic opportunity. But it was you who came here.

My maternal ancestors were English - mostly Manx. Mongrels. Methodists. Poor people. My paternal grandparents from Italy - peasants. Shoemakers. Socialists, protestants, anarchists. They couldn't flourish in Italy. They did, here. That's what we are. We are not cultural geniuses like the Czechs. Nor geopolitical giants like Churchill. We have never had a Churchill, and we may never have a Churchill. We're not artistic geniuses like the Russians or the French - but we were a place to thrive when the War started or the artists of St Petersburg truly were starving.

We are what we are. We're good at what we're good at. We can make decent wine now, which we couldn't even forty years ago. We're not as arrogant as we are ignorant and uncaring. We're superficial, mercurial and materialistic. But the american dream is still very much alive. People still come here from nothing and nowhere and make fortunes. That's what we are.

This is great stuff. Should be in the wikipedia article for USA.

I just started appreciating 2 and a half men now that I saw it in english - I got to know it in Austria, where it was dubbed. Charlie Sheen in German - although that's not half as bad as Forest Gump in German.

I think youre right about Seinfeld, that kind of stuff is always stressy to watch when you know that, whenever someone comes up with an initiative, it is going to backfire.

Last year I decided to just make a firepit in my parents garden, by the way. I dug a deep hole and walled it with pavements tiles and bricks, it looks like an archaic oven. its inside a large courtyard, people dont seem to mind if we have a barbecue there now and then.

To Calrid:
American leaders have not generally been the worst of leaders, have they? No Churchills, but then, neither was Tony Blair or is Angela Merkel or Sarkozy, let alone Berlusconi, Putin or Ghadaffi -
American leaders are held up to high standards - higher than all others. And Obama is far from a dimwit, I'd say. The only one real relative dimwit, the only American president who was clearly inferior in intelligence to many of his foreign colleagues, was George W. Bush. Its not reasonable to judge all American leaders by the standard he set.
Image
For behold, all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals
User avatar
Jakob
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6814
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:23 pm
Location: look at my suit

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Calrid » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:07 pm

Jakob wrote:
Faust wrote:Calrid - one of the problems you are having is that you have never been to America. TV in america is lame, to say the least. Besides Two and a Half Men, I don't know of a funny sitcom on US television.

The thing about Seinfeld is that it's a very american jewish "You never get away with anything" type of thing.

A synopsis of part of one episode - "Jerry's arch-enemy, Newman, catches Jerry and his current girlfriend making out during "Schindler's List."

Just that line is funny, if you like american self-hating jewish humor. It's not if you don't.

I don't think people hate the US because of its television. It's amazing and frankly puzzling to me just how widespread the distribution of american TV is. The facts seem to be working against you, here.

Many foreigners, in my experience, hate the US until they get here. Until they see Walmart. Or the mind-boggling amount of open space. Or until they experience some of the basic freedoms we have. And this not just from people from third-world hellholes.

When a friend from the Netherlands visited me, he was impressed by the fact that we could have an open fire in the backyard. I love campfires. Can't have them where he lives. On forums, I hear a lot of people from Britain complain that they can't have guns, or most of the knives we have here. I have both - I have never shot or stabbed anyone, by the way. Friends from Romania marvel at the array of consumer goods we have available, at prices that are unheard of over there.

America is and always has been something of a noncountry. While we have been restrictive lately with immigration (in a way - in a way we have not), america will always belong to the world. We are you. If we lack an identity, it's okay. And we're very materialistic - how could we not be? From the beginning, people came here for political freedom and economic opportunity. But it was you who came here.

My maternal ancestors were English - mostly Manx. Mongrels. Methodists. Poor people. My paternal grandparents from Italy - peasants. Shoemakers. Socialists, protestants, anarchists. They couldn't flourish in Italy. They did, here. That's what we are. We are not cultural geniuses like the Czechs. Nor geopolitical giants like Churchill. We have never had a Churchill, and we may never have a Churchill. We're not artistic geniuses like the Russians or the French - but we were a place to thrive when the War started or the artists of St Petersburg truly were starving.

We are what we are. We're good at what we're good at. We can make decent wine now, which we couldn't even forty years ago. We're not as arrogant as we are ignorant and uncaring. We're superficial, mercurial and materialistic. But the american dream is still very much alive. People still come here from nothing and nowhere and make fortunes. That's what we are.

This is great stuff. Should be in the wikipedia article for USA.

I just started appreciating 2 and a half men now that I saw it in english - I got to know it in Austria, where it was dubbed. Charlie Sheen in German - although that's not half as bad as Forest Gump in German.

I think youre right about Seinfeld, that kind of stuff is always stressy to watch when you know that, whenever someone comes up with an initiative, it is going to backfire.

Last year I decided to just make a firepit in my parents garden, by the way. I dug a deep hole and walled it with pavements tiles and bricks, it looks like an archaic oven. its inside a large courtyard, people dont seem to mind if we have a barbecue there now and then.

To Calrid:
American leaders have not generally been the worst of leaders, have they? No Churchills, but then, neither was Tony Blair or is Angela Merkel or Sarkozy, let alone Berlusconi, Putin or Ghadaffi -
American leaders are held up to high standards - higher than all others. And Obama is far from a dimwit, I'd say. The only one real relative dimwit, the only American president who was clearly inferior in intelligence to many of his foreign colleagues, was George W. Bush. Its not reasonable to judge all American leaders by the standard he set.


:lol: no just :lol:

Yeah Bush was a saint. Reagan sold arms to Iran and the Mujahadeen now known as The Taliban et al. IIRC under Nixon the CIA funded drugs cartels to pay for the war in Vietnam, not to mention his almost impeachment. Iran had its democratic government overthrown for oil concessions in Iran in the 1950s. The list is endless. not to mention breaking the UN convention torture and illegally invading Iraq. they behave like a bunch of bullying assholes with no common sense or decency. Fully prepared to lie openly in a bid to avoid the worlds courts, and riding on their veto powers to implement unpopular and dangerously short sighted political goals.

Higher standards? Moderate standards would be good. Some sense of integrity perhaps? I haven't even started on the coups launched in South America where dictators were ousted by the CIA and replaced with little more than mafia style drug dealers.

Standards what standards?

I'm fully prepared to admit my government has sucked for the last 40 years, but that doesn't make it any better does it really?
“I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.”

Oscar Wilde - probably.
User avatar
Calrid
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:54 am

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Faust » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:29 pm

Thanks, Jake. And I'm glad to hear about the fires.

Interesting that you'd mention Forrest Gump. I abhor that film. It's offensive in many ways. And I suppose that there are people who will think that it somehow describes america. Gump is brave and loyal to a fault, but also quite stupid and subject to the dumbest of luck. Sure, it's a cartoon character. But people used to think all americans were cowboys.
User avatar
Faust
Unrequited Lover of Wisdom
 
Posts: 16846
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 6:47 pm

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby anon » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:57 pm

Faust wrote:I abhor that film.

Thank God I'm not the only one.
"Distraction is the only thing that consoles us for our miseries, and yet it is itself the greatest of our miseries." - Blaise Pascal

"The bombs we plant in each other are ticking away." - Edward Yang

"To a fly that likes the smell of putrid / Meat the fragrance of sandalwood is foul. / Beings who discard Nirvana / Covet coarse Samsara's realm." - Saraha
User avatar
anon
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8274
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: In the meantime.

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Jakob » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:27 pm

Calrid wrote:
:lol: no just :lol:

Yea man dude man dude!! :D :D 8) :banana-dance:

tadadaaa lala yo man O:)

ILP is such fun!
:mrgreen:

Yeah Bush was a saint. Reagan sold arms to Iran and the Mujahadeen now known as The Taliban et al. IIRC under Nixon the CIA funded drugs cartels to pay for the war in Vietnam, not to mention his almost impeachment. Iran had its democratic government overthrown for oil concessions in Iran in the 1950s. The list is endless. not to mention breaking the UN convention torture and illegally invading Iraq. they behave like a bunch of bullying assholes with no common sense or decency. Fully prepared to lie openly in a bid to avoid the worlds courts, and riding on their veto powers to implement unpopular and dangerously short sighted political goals.

decency... =D>
LOL
thats funny.

Btu seriously, we were discussing politics.

Higher standards? Moderate standards would be good. Some sense of integrity perhaps? I haven't even started on the coups launched in South America where dictators were ousted by the CIA and replaced with little more than mafia style drug dealers.

Standards what standards?

And what part of such practices is exclusive to American politics?
With America, it has suddenly become an issue. Which is good. I like that America is held to higher standards than the rest of the human race and its politics, which were never in the entire written history decent. :lol:

I'm fully prepared to admit my government has sucked for the last 40 years, but that doesn't make it any better does it really?

I cant' imagine that it does. What country are you from?
Image
For behold, all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals
User avatar
Jakob
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6814
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:23 pm
Location: look at my suit

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Jakob » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:45 pm

Faust wrote:Thanks, Jake. And I'm glad to hear about the fires.

Interesting that you'd mention Forrest Gump. I abhor that film. It's offensive in many ways. And I suppose that there are people who will think that it somehow describes america. Gump is brave and loyal to a fault, but also quite stupid and subject to the dumbest of luck. Sure, it's a cartoon character. But people used to think all americans were cowboys.

I like the film, but not because I think it represents America. It represents happy-happy-joy-joy Hollywood filmmaking, and does so efficiently. When I go to the cinema, I want to be manipulated into suspending my thinking.

It is not a great happy-happy-joy-joy film though - it just does the trick in a weird way that is kind of funny, and translates very badly into German. I can certainly understand that if even the slightest suspicion arises that it is supposed to represent you - or where you live, that is sickening. Just be glad you dont have to watch Dutch films.

I love the firepit. Life is just not the same without a fire now and then.
Image
For behold, all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals
User avatar
Jakob
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6814
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:23 pm
Location: look at my suit

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Calrid » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:27 am

Jakob wrote:
Calrid wrote:
:lol: no just :lol:

Yea man dude man dude!! :D :D 8) :banana-dance:

tadadaaa lala yo man O:)

ILP is such fun!
:mrgreen:

Yeah Bush was a saint. Reagan sold arms to Iran and the Mujahadeen now known as The Taliban et al. IIRC under Nixon the CIA funded drugs cartels to pay for the war in Vietnam, not to mention his almost impeachment. Iran had its democratic government overthrown for oil concessions in Iran in the 1950s. The list is endless. not to mention breaking the UN convention torture and illegally invading Iraq. they behave like a bunch of bullying assholes with no common sense or decency. Fully prepared to lie openly in a bid to avoid the worlds courts, and riding on their veto powers to implement unpopular and dangerously short sighted political goals.

decency... =D>
LOL
thats funny.

Btu seriously, we were discussing politics.

Higher standards? Moderate standards would be good. Some sense of integrity perhaps? I haven't even started on the coups launched in South America where dictators were ousted by the CIA and replaced with little more than mafia style drug dealers.

Standards what standards?

And what part of such practices is exclusive to American politics?
With America, it has suddenly become an issue. Which is good. I like that America is held to higher standards than the rest of the human race and its politics, which were never in the entire written history decent. :lol:

I'm fully prepared to admit my government has sucked for the last 40 years, but that doesn't make it any better does it really?

I cant' imagine that it does. What country are you from?


Yay apologetics, focus all the attention off yourself and then pretend your actions are excused.

America is not held to a higher standard, American government believes it can do what the hell it likes and no one has any power to stop it.

If it is held to any standard it is a piss poor one, and it doesn't even remotely live up to that.

It lies cheats, gets rid of democracies that are troublesome, sells drugs and arms to fund wars, and behaves like all the countries it purports to detest. It is the most giant hypocrite on Earth and its presidents in the main have been little more than the heads of a corrupt organisation that has little or no moral rigour.

If you actually did give a shit about standards you wouldn't behave like a giant cunt now would you?

And no it is not excused nor is anyone else so woefully disrespecting of the international community, nor do many countries behave like you do. That's why everyone hates America, because you just don't give a shit about anyone or anything apart from yourself and your vapid little elitocratic business circle jerk, as long as your economic interests aren't jeopardised and the oil is still coming in you'll do whatever the fuck you can to see that the world is unstable and violent, by poking at bees nests.

Why don't you make up utter lies about Iran and go start another illegal war, it's not like you care what anyone thinks or ever have.

Standards, what standards?
“I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.”

Oscar Wilde - probably.
User avatar
Calrid
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:54 am

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Jakob » Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:42 pm

Calrid wrote:Yay apologetics, focus all the attention off yourself and then pretend your actions are excused.

America is not held to a higher standard, American government believes it can do what the hell it likes and no one has any power to stop it.

If it is held to any standard it is a piss poor one, and it doesn't even remotely live up to that.

It lies cheats, gets rid of democracies that are troublesome, sells drugs and arms to fund wars, and behaves like all the countries it purports to detest. It is the most giant hypocrite on Earth and its presidents in the main have been little more than the heads of a corrupt organisation that has little or no moral rigour.

If you actually did give a shit about standards you wouldn't behave like a giant cunt now would you?

A giant cunts just needs a giant cock to discipline it. Its not Americas fault that everyone else is so tiny and insignificant. Oh those good old days of the Cold War - when none of these pathetic midgets was whining over Americas massive potency... then it was properly valued.

America as the sole global power naturally breeds envy.

And no it is not excused nor is anyone else so woefully disrespecting of the international community, nor do many countries behave like you do. That's why everyone hates America, because you just don't give a shit about anyone or anything apart from yourself and your vapid little elitocratic business circle jerk, as long as your economic interests aren't jeopardised and the oil is still coming in you'll do whatever the fuck you can to see that the world is unstable and violent, by poking at bees nests.

The "international community" exists because of Americas imperialism. If it weren't for the US domination of the planet, (which is why it is exposed, why people like you are even capable of venting their malcontent across the borders) there would be no such idea of homogenous mass of 'Earthlings".

Why don't you make up utter lies about Iran and go start another illegal war, it's not like you care what anyone thinks or ever have.

Standards, what standards?

Comical that you are addressing me, a Dutchman, as the government of the United States.
But what "utter lies"? It's more than reasonable that the powers that be try to prevent another power, especially a religiously motivated one, from attaining nuclear status. Do you really believe that Iran has no political intentions with their nuclear program? Or do you actually believe in fairness when it comes to owning atomic bombs? I can't believe anyone would be that crazy.
Image
For behold, all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals
User avatar
Jakob
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6814
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:23 pm
Location: look at my suit

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby tentative » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:44 pm

Calrid,

I don't know what color glasses you wear, but...
....because you just don't give a shit about anyone or anything apart from yourself and your vapid little elitocratic business circle jerk, as long as your economic interests aren't jeopardised and the oil is still coming in you'll do whatever the fuck you can to see that the world is unstable and violent, by poking at bees nests.
That take's in just about every country that has ever had the power to do so. You aren't describing America, you're describing the whole fucking world. I'm not sure what high mountain peak you sit upon to pass judgement, but singling out any country for your whine says you either haven't done well in history or you're ignoring it.
IGAYRCCFYVM
Sorry, arguing with the ignorant is like trying to wrestle with a jellyfish. No matter how many tentacles you cut off there are always more, and there isn't even a brain to stun. - Maia

I don't take know for an answer.
tentative
.
 
Posts: 12410
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Calrid » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:06 am

Jakob wrote:
Calrid wrote:Yay apologetics, focus all the attention off yourself and then pretend your actions are excused.

America is not held to a higher standard, American government believes it can do what the hell it likes and no one has any power to stop it.

If it is held to any standard it is a piss poor one, and it doesn't even remotely live up to that.

It lies cheats, gets rid of democracies that are troublesome, sells drugs and arms to fund wars, and behaves like all the countries it purports to detest. It is the most giant hypocrite on Earth and its presidents in the main have been little more than the heads of a corrupt organisation that has little or no moral rigour.

If you actually did give a shit about standards you wouldn't behave like a giant cunt now would you?

A giant cunts just needs a giant cock to discipline it. Its not Americas fault that everyone else is so tiny and insignificant. Oh those good old days of the Cold War - when none of these pathetic midgets was whining over Americas massive potency... then it was properly valued.

America as the sole global power naturally breeds envy.

And no it is not excused nor is anyone else so woefully disrespecting of the international community, nor do many countries behave like you do. That's why everyone hates America, because you just don't give a shit about anyone or anything apart from yourself and your vapid little elitocratic business circle jerk, as long as your economic interests aren't jeopardised and the oil is still coming in you'll do whatever the fuck you can to see that the world is unstable and violent, by poking at bees nests.

The "international community" exists because of Americas imperialism. If it weren't for the US domination of the planet, (which is why it is exposed, why people like you are even capable of venting their malcontent across the borders) there would be no such idea of homogenous mass of 'Earthlings".

Why don't you make up utter lies about Iran and go start another illegal war, it's not like you care what anyone thinks or ever have.

Standards, what standards?

Comical that you are addressing me, a Dutchman, as the government of the United States.
But what "utter lies"? It's more than reasonable that the powers that be try to prevent another power, especially a religiously motivated one, from attaining nuclear status. Do you really believe that Iran has no political intentions with their nuclear program? Or do you actually believe in fairness when it comes to owning atomic bombs? I can't believe anyone would be that crazy.


Iran can either sell its oil or it can use it to run power stations. Or conversely it can use nuclear plants for power and sell all of its oil, what would you do. These are American reactors, and European enrichment facilities (at least the tech and know how is).

The NNPT allows any country to use nuclear power for its energy concerns. Iran is perfectly and legitimately allowed to run nuclear power stations.

The CIA published a report detailing how Iran had abandoned its arms goals in 2002. Its not a question of convincing anyone of anything, it is a question of Iran letting inspectors in, although to all intents and purposes everyone already knows what they are using the fuel for. To power its nuclear grid and hence enable it to more lucratively sell its oil instead of wasting it in power stations. Which was the whole reason the US gave them the nuclear generators in the first place. Iran likes to posture though and give America the finger, hence the present situation. Iran is doing nothing that the USs intelligence community doesn't know about anyway.

The UN came about because of all countries getting together after WWII and thrashing out a treaty. You're thinking of NATO.

America ignores the UN and procedes to declare war regardless of the legality so I don't really see how it provides an example of anything, except a liar and a cheat. The world community exists despite the acts of American imperialism. If America had its way they'd bin the UN because it is an inconvenience to its politcal aims.

A giant cunts just needs a giant cock to discipline it. Its not Americas fault that everyone else is so tiny and insignificant. Oh those good old days of the Cold War - when none of these pathetic midgets was whining over Americas massive potency... then it was properly valued.


Actually population wise America is hardly significant, the only cock willing to stand up to it is powerless before its veto powers. Hence it continually defies it, reneges on treaties and generally acts like a belligerant asshole, blundering from one political disaster or conflict to the next, like a two year old on too much sugar
- as its reputation, as if it could get any lower, goes out of the window.

The cold war was a massive waste of time money on resources it involved itself in because of Communism being evil apparently. That worked out great didn't it, we almost destroyed the whole planet because of two belligerent children rattling their sabres.

Kudos though to Russia for convincing the US that it was in fact a superpower. Even if it suited Americas political interests to play along. MAD what a fuck up that was.
Last edited by Calrid on Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:35 am, edited 4 times in total.
“I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.”

Oscar Wilde - probably.
User avatar
Calrid
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:54 am

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Calrid » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:07 am

tentative wrote:Calrid,

I don't know what color glasses you wear, but...
....because you just don't give a shit about anyone or anything apart from yourself and your vapid little elitocratic business circle jerk, as long as your economic interests aren't jeopardised and the oil is still coming in you'll do whatever the fuck you can to see that the world is unstable and violent, by poking at bees nests.
That take's in just about every country that has ever had the power to do so. You aren't describing America, you're describing the whole fucking world. I'm not sure what high mountain peak you sit upon to pass judgement, but singling out any country for your whine says you either haven't done well in history or you're ignoring it.


In the 18th century, you can't behave like a massive cunt any more and not pay the consequences. You already are.

Wake up its the 21st century, colonialism is so passé.

History lessons from an American, you don't even study it at school do you? Or geography another indication of your lack of interest in the world you are not really part of any more.

World community? Do you even know what that word means?

Your a maverick loaner with a badge.
“I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.”

Oscar Wilde - probably.
User avatar
Calrid
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:54 am

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Only_Humean » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:19 pm

Faust wrote:Many foreigners, in my experience, hate the US until they get here. Until they see Walmart. Or the mind-boggling amount of open space. Or until they experience some of the basic freedoms we have. And this not just from people from third-world hellholes.


There's a big anti-American kneejerk thing in Europe. It's not jealousy, resentment or anything, just a bit of reaction to perceived arrogance and a heap of groupthink. GWB didn't help matters, mind you.

But I like America. People are friendly, and not so cynical or guarded, and they're interested. And the chicks dig a British accent. And NYC is the most kick-ass city ever.

But I couldn't live there. The people are maybe more human and warm, but the society as a whole much less. To me, Walmart is a cavern of cheap consumerist tat, society seems more splintered there (maybe that's just my external view) and things are more industrial, more machinelike. Though maybe I'd suit a small town in Montana where everyone knows everybody else and people still live in a community. I like my local butcher and the wine shop run by the misanthropist who can grumpily tell you why you're an idiot for choosing that wine to go with that meal. I can live without guns.

But space, I can't argue. I'd love more space. Guess I'd better set my sights on Canada, eh?
Image

The biology of purpose keeps my nose above the surface.
- Brian Eno
User avatar
Only_Humean
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6194
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:53 am
Location: Right here

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Postby Smirk » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:02 pm

Only_Humean wrote:society seems more splintered there

Of course it is. We are an extremely diverse people with often divergent interests. We have come from literally everywhere. Our backgrounds are multitudinous.

That is the best part, as it happens. And why, notwithstanding anybody else's opinion to the contrary, there is no "typical" American.



(Except for me. I'm extremely typical. Quite average, actually. More average than perhaps anyone I know. A portrait of extraordinary averageness.)
No snivelling.
User avatar
Smirk
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:46 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Society, Government, and Economics



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users