Coastal Management

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_Management

Opinions?

Does anyone have hard information on how our taxes help keep rich people living almost right on the beach? Or is this a myth?

And what’s up with rebuilding New Orleans?

And beach replenishment?

There’s a lot of issues regarding coastlines.

Coastal management is politics as usual.
wealthy people/corporations want to build something, say a hotel.
Here in California, we have coastal commissions and the like,
so the wealthy/corporation goes to the coastal commission and
bribes them with campaign contributions and voila, we get a hotel.
Which is an unnecessary waste of everyone time, money and precious beachfront,
but hay, at least the coastal commission people get their bribes, ur, I mean campaign
contribution.

Kropotkin

rich people steal all the money from everyone else, they are the reason why the US is in such debt, the rich steal the money from you and me and go live off of it, because they cant make their own money, and they also eat the souls of babies and push old ladies into traffic and sell drugs to your 16 year old daughter on steet corners and conspire to murder you in your sleep, all for no other reason than they are rich and they can do it.

I get the impression you’ve mistaken my OP for a demonization of rich people. The topic here is coastal management, not the attitudes of the rich. Peter may have somewhat done the same.

Here on our coast its not just the rich that live on the beaches its every class, but, thanks to hurricanes it will probably all turn commercial now or the vast majority of it, Not even the wealthy down here can pay insurance premiums :unamused: . But ours is for tourism at any rate so coastal managment here and beach replenishment is very much needed. it helps the hob market to have nice welcoming beaches and touristy things.

For some reason I thought you lived in the midwest. What part of the country do you live in? And do you know what laws cover proximity to the beach? Local zoning I assume?

anon: Does anyone have hard information on how our taxes help keep rich people living almost right on the beach? Or is this a myth?

K: I just ran with what you said in your original post.

Kropotkin

I hear you.

The state, local city, town and county laws work together, Mississippi has only a small portion of it that is coastal. The income from tourism here on the coast is a very much needed tax base for this state. So the state has its fingers in the laws. Cities and the three counties have their laws. Very rarely do any laws conflict. Right now just a beach vending law is conflicting between counties and state. The state wants control over vendor licenses, the counties dispute it.
the counties are responsible for their portions of the beaches, they manage and maintain the beaches and the water. So they want the money from the licenses. Most people in the 6 counties of South Miss agree thats fair, but, the state lost money from the lack of tourism since Katrina so they are trying to bully their way into taking the fees so those that do not live on tor near the coastal counties believe that the state should get it… Its not a huge amount of money but, everyone wants it. Even a couple of towns are stepping into the fray, being desperate for money. Courts will decide who gets the fees.

Yes,There is a difference between south Miss and the rest of the state,its wierd. The folks here make no bones about it we are not Missippians we are South Mississippians. Ahhh, culture, its different everywhere even here in the states Its taken me 10 years to even begin to figure out the deep South cultures here. I am from Arizona :laughing:

So you’re specifically in a hurricane Katrina rebuilding region? Or near enough that you know a lot about it (more than most of us)?

:laughing: My friend we were in the eye of the hurricane. Did you know that katrina followed the evac route in Miss? Probably not. Most of Miss was hit by Katrina with hurricane force winds and rains. Well north of us Houses were torn apart by Tornadoes and winds exceeding 100 miles an hour. Now I live 34 miles inland we were hit with class 4 winds and rain, lots of pounding rain and tornadoes. How we survived I don’t know. Tornadoes tore up property in our samll neighborhood but left homes alone except for roofs and aome windows. We had a huge branch get tossed through our roof like a bullet. Most folks evaced we and another family stayed behind. when we finally stepped out of our home it was like bombs had gone off all over. Before Katrina we could not see our neighbors due to woods etc. Well that changed.

The coastal properties well my friend, many of our friends had no homes to go home to, nothing zero zip. 6 miles inland the storm surge hit three story homes went completely under water past the roof. A few months later there was still death , destruction and the smell was horrific. 3 years later there is still a huge amount of rebuilding to be done. The last body finally IDed, still hundreds on the missing list. You see you can’t replace and rebuild things in a few years that took decades to build. Even with a huge work force… Although many idiots seem to think so.

So Kris, what do you think? I look at it this way. Everyone (well, a lot of people) knows that in a general way building on the beach is pretty dumb. Why try to figure out how to protect the beach, when the beach itself is naturally the protection? And there are of course extensive ecological issues involved. On the other hand there is the intricate reality, defined by habit and economics, that we are all enmeshed in. You can’t just tell someone to move house, and you can’t even just pay them and tell them to move house. Are the two overall social forces (“rebuild” and “get off the beach”) so at odds with each other that we are forever stuck with a really bad way of doing things? Is that the fate of democracy? To be stuck in a tangled web with no way out?

Oh, and that casino that was on that pier - did they rebuild it? Do you know how much tax money went into coastal redevelopment?

Or is this not an issue for you? (Not just Kris, I’m trying to talk generally.)

Tax dollars are in the billions, donations from other countries and groups are even more when put together.Yes, other countries have donated a crap load of money to help our affected areas to rebuild after natural disasters.Saudi, Germany etc etc etc. I would ask why is this never mentioned. I have products in my home that were sent here from Saudi Arabia we ate German MREs for a while. There were and are numerous donations from all over the world sent and are still being distributed to areas hit by tornadoes, flooding etc. I thank our neighbors for their help.

Should beaches be lived on. Yes, And the Government should allow it. Its really no different then living where tornadoes hit or blizzards hit and destroy Where rivers flood. If folks are supported by the government during those times what makes hurricanes and beaches any different? For me I would rather face a hurricane than a blizzard or a flooding river. Tornados are down right spooky. Hurricanes do not hit every year, Blizzards do. How much tax money has been spent on destroyed property from other natural disasters over the decades? I almost forgot drought stricken areas fire hit areas and earthquakes, tax dollars are spent on relief there too.

These other disasters are just as deadly if not more so than a hurricane, at least with hurricanes you can evacuate. Money should be spent on the beaches just as money is spent on other rebuilds. The coastlines are vital economic areas to the country. From tourism to aquaculture money is made and taxes are brought in. If you look back over the decades more money has been brought in from all the coastal communities than has been paid out recently. While I would never buy beach front property or property near water it does not bother most. The danger is minimal compared to what other disasters can happen. There are times I think I would just like to hide in a cave while the world does her burping. But my luck she would send an earthquake to me :laughing:

I’m not a news junkie, and in fact I’m probably a bit ignorant about many contemporary events and issues. I didn’t know that, though truthfully I may have heard that once or twice then forgot about it. Thanks.

I don’t think this is at all the case. Beaches, like other natural margins, are extraordinarily important ecologically. Increasingly in the modern world we must take this into account. It’s not possible for instance for gulf shrimpers to approach their business with blinders on anymore. To not care about the ability of turtles or seabirds to nest not only reflects an impoverished view of the natural world, but ultimately leads to (and reflects, of course) literal human poverty. To say that living directly on a beach (I’m not talking about people living thousands of feet inland) is some sort of an inalienable right makes no sense at all anymore. That it is the case and there are many issues involved is undeniable. It is not a clear right/wrong situation, even if there is clearly a long-term better/worse scenario.

All good points regarding disaster relief. There seems to be something different about living right on the beach as opposed to a thousand feet away though. Is that difference only a superficial one? I’m not sure. I share a fair bit of Peter’s attitude towards coastal development (see 2nd post in the thread). Somehow it seems like a very different context than someone’s house in Kansas getting hit by a tornado.

No doubt. The oceans and waterways are a source of great wealth, and it is for this very reason that we need to have a more sophisticated attitude regarding their protection.

I’d love to live right on the beach. Maybe I’m just jealous. :slight_smile:

i have never heard of other government or countries donating supplies or money to the US; im not saying i dont believe its true, but i find it shocking that i have never heard of this, if indeed it is the case. do you have some links or evidence to cite here for this claim?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina

There is just one link TTG there are other links about other disasters that countries have sent help for. Just do a search on named disasters on google or whatever engine you use. For katrina just search for countries that sent relief or help for Katrina. Then ask yourself why the media maybe did only a blurb or two on such events. Sure we help others all the time but why do we not acknowledge their helping us? Why is the public mostly kept in the dark about assistance recieved? Take a look at some of the names that sent help I know my family benifited from their very welcomed assistance. this community is very grateful to all the foriegn people that came here and for their gnerous contributions. It made those first few months liveable. I know a little now how it must feel to live in a third world country. We got one meal a day and were grateful for that. No running water just jugs of water. For just almost 2 months that is how we out here in the country survived. The coastal cities were helped more but, to be fair they lost more. Rich and poor were brought to thier knees. If it were not for all the help given, well we still would be hurting pretty bad.

anon, if you bought property would you want the Government to come in claim imminent domain and confiscate it?? Because that is what you are sort of suggesting by agreeing somewhat with Peter on this. For what its worth the east coast and west coast may only have corporations and the wealthy living on or near beaches but, the Gulf coast is not that way. so why take someone’s property? Why deny them? They pay the required taxes and I can assure the taxes are higher for property within 3 to 5 blocks of the beaches. Why deny them if they are paying what the Government asks for?

Do people that get hit by tornados or blizzards or earthquakes have to pay higher taxes? Peter is right about some of it but, if you bought the land then no one should have any right to take it from you. There is a buyout going on here for the lowest lying areas and many are taking it. Why? because a huge amount of focus. Do homes have to be Tornado Proofed or earthquake proofed? Well here there are laws being passed to make it too expensive to live or own a small business near the beach. Katrina and the attention it recieved is making it impossible to pay for zoning code updates. building codes are making rebuilding too expensive for anyone. If you all think its fair then think about how you would feel. Home is home.

I’m not sure where that reaction came from. Where have I suggested anything like you’re saying?

Coastal management is a topic that includes confiscating peoples land outright or at deflated prices. The whole hurricane issue gives those that push for ecology the much needed backing to do so. Right now the ones in charge are likely to use iminent domain. Wet land and coastal protection is a very hot topic and controversial here and throughout the gulf coast. It is PC right now to protect natural environments and those folks are pushing to remove ancestoral property rights to many families and to those that have purchased land on or near the coast and wetlands. So in your coastal management this is a part of the topic. Would you condone the removal of land ownership? You see counties and cities and state have right of way on your land for utilities and road management etc. The same goes for coastal and wetland properties. The govt’s manage parts of those properties too. The families that have land butting up to the beaches or on the beaches must give right of way to the Govt’ on maintainence. Folks just can’t go and do what they want on their beaches or wetland. Everything must follow strict guidlines. A heck of alot more so than inland property.
Its an important question to coastal managment. Kick folks off their land or not

Yes, it’s an important question. In a previous post I made it clear that I am against simple eminent domain. Here is the post in its entirety:

I’m not an ideologue - which is exactly why this is an interesting topic to me. I don’t think there are simple answers. But it should be obvious at least just because of the fact that I’ve brought up this topic at all that I think this is an issue that can’t be just ignored. I myself have no idea what a good answer would be. Probably there is no “answer”, but only a series of intelligent decisions that can be made by the people who are in a position to make those kinds of decisions. But without some pushing, and some friction, not only does nothing happen to make things better, but a lot happens to actually make things worse. In reality it is not just a question of retreating from the coast versus keeping what you have - there are also powerful economic forces pushing for rampant growth at all costs. Suffice it to say I am completely against this mentality, at least in the absence of someone enlightening me as to how that could possibly be seen as a good idea.

the best answer to protect the coast is to preserve the wetlands limit construction and destruction of wetlands, they are the buffer. The coast itself has limited life except for birds that breed down here and Mississippi has a large section of the beach cut off from human contact so that these birds can breed.
The coast with its Casinos that are being built and have been rebuilt are important to the economy. Jobs are scarce with out them.

I am a person that believes what is yours is yours wether you are an individual or a corporation. Mainly if pollution is restricted, you have enough money to rebuild without the Gov’t bailing your butt out every two years and you respect other’s properties, do what you want.

My peeve is that folks build then expect the Gov’t to bail them out time after time after each disaster. For pete’s sake move your butt if you can’t afford it, don’t expect others to pay for your comfort. Unless you provide jobs to others in a significant amount , then I concur the Govt’ should help.

Coastal managment varies from state to state and coast to coast, what we need here is not what the East or West coast may need. The coasts and problems are not the same for all. Beach errosion is different.

Just in the past day or two, Miss. has declared that native plants are to be used to create a barrier to protect the beaches from errosion, the small test areas have done very well. Much better than any other product. Plants are also much more appealing to tourists than ugly fences. It is a long term project it won’t have an affect for about 4 years but it shows Miss leading its neigbors into a greener management. These plants won’t work for all.