What Is Your Understanding Of A Feminist? Are You One?

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Postby RicDemian » Fri May 25, 2007 6:31 am

Ingenium wrote:
I was wondering along those lines myself. I would have thought a philosophy forum would attract progressive-minded types. I thought this thread would draw some elaborations on the various avenues feminism has taken, some critiques of the radical varieties, but not knee jerk opposition to the modest demands of equity feminism.


Well, as sirEbrum has so aptly demonstrated to us, one reason is that this forum, while it is dedicated to philosophy, is also over-populated by college-aged boys (and perhaps a few older men who never quite grew beyond that stage...) whose immaturity and lack of life experience makes their opinions about feminism pretty much useless. They're still figuring out how you get girls for sex, you see. The problem is that even the bright ones don't realize this -- the immaturity factor -- and so a thread that could go somewhere worthwhile continues to suffer from their verbal flatulence.

That sums it up nicely. More to the point that my words choice words which were aptly quoted. So I'm encouraged that there are some philosophically capable minds in a philosophy forum, and an apropos responce to thread concerned with one of the pivotal issues of our time

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Postby Mr Reasonable » Fri May 25, 2007 6:36 am

Ric what happened to your pic man? Where's the champ?
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Postby Kriswest » Fri May 25, 2007 10:50 am

ScottMears wrote:Why don't feminists shave their legs?


It keeps them warm at night in their single bed. :lol: :lol:

Sorry that was a joke right?

Ok

Some women don't shave because they feel shaving is a degrading practice designed to make the woman a sexual object.

I don't agree
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Postby Tab » Fri May 25, 2007 12:11 pm

People keep saying 'sexual object' as if it is a dirty word. :lol: The whole purpose of life and evolution is to render us better 'sexual objects'.

Unsexual objects tend to have less children.
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Postby Kriswest » Fri May 25, 2007 1:41 pm

LOL =D> =D>
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Postby someoneisatthedoor » Fri May 25, 2007 1:44 pm

Tabula Rasa wrote:People keep saying 'sexual object' as if it is a dirty word. :lol: The whole purpose of life and evolution is to render us better 'sexual objects'.

Unsexual objects tend to have less children.


I didn't think it was the 'sexual' that was being objected to, but the 'objects'. Except in the case of those feminists who are actually just repressed lesbians.
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Postby Tab » Fri May 25, 2007 1:57 pm

Oh yes - Repressed lesbian objects are a whole different kettle of fish.
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Postby Mr Reasonable » Fri May 25, 2007 5:07 pm

Kettle of fish!!!! HAHAHAHA!!!!
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

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Postby ariellowen » Fri May 25, 2007 10:22 pm

Kriswest wrote:Some women don't shave because they feel shaving is a degrading practice designed to make the woman a sexual object.

Rather than infantalism, which I think is the usual feminist take on this, how about racialism? besides Arabs and Europeans, most women do not have any significant amount of hair on their legs, arms and so on.

Races whose women are renowned for their attractiveness usually have rather effeminate looking men: Thailand, Korea, Vietnam...; races known for the handsomeness of their men: Italians, Moroccans, Spaniards and so on, have rather unappealing women.

This is why men go to places like Cambodia for sex tourism, while women go to places like Turkey.

Hairy women are just not attractive, and likewise, hairless men are not sexy. (This same fact also goes for nose size, stature, complexion and other male-female specific attributes.) (One often overlooked reason for why Arabs keep their women covered, is because they are just so damn ugly.)
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Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat May 26, 2007 2:07 am

Cambodia huh? Is there a website where I can book a trip like this?
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

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Postby -Oni Omega- » Sat May 26, 2007 3:54 am

ariellowen wrote:
Kriswest wrote:Some women don't shave because they feel shaving is a degrading practice designed to make the woman a sexual object.

Rather than infantalism, which I think is the usual feminist take on this, how about racialism? besides Arabs and Europeans, most women do not have any significant amount of hair on their legs, arms and so on.

Races whose women are renowned for their attractiveness usually have rather effeminate looking men: Thailand, Korea, Vietnam...; races known for the handsomeness of their men: Italians, Moroccans, Spaniards and so on, have rather unappealing women.

This is why men go to places like Cambodia for sex tourism, while women go to places like Turkey.

Hairy women are just not attractive, and likewise, hairless men are not sexy. (This same fact also goes for nose size, stature, complexion and other male-female specific attributes.) (One often overlooked reason for why Arabs keep their women covered, is because they are just so damn ugly.)


What a pile of stupid steriotypical shizzat.

As far as the poor steriotypes go they have got to be.... poor #-o

note: i bolded the things i know to be plain wrong.
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Postby Tab » Sat May 26, 2007 8:08 am

Must admit - Haven't seen many middle-aged foreign women tramping about in Turkey looking for the Mehmet of their dreams. I'll ask one next time I see one.
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Postby Kriswest » Sat May 26, 2007 11:49 am

ariellowen wrote:
Kriswest wrote:Some women don't shave because they feel shaving is a degrading practice designed to make the woman a sexual object.

Rather than infantalism, which I think is the usual feminist take on this, how about racialism? besides Arabs and Europeans, most women do not have any significant amount of hair on their legs, arms and so on.

Races whose women are renowned for their attractiveness usually have rather effeminate looking men: Thailand, Korea, Vietnam...; races known for the handsomeness of their men: Italians, Moroccans, Spaniards and so on, have rather unappealing women.

This is why men go to places like Cambodia for sex tourism, while women go to places like Turkey.

Hairy women are just not attractive, and likewise, hairless men are not sexy. (This same fact also goes for nose size, stature, complexion and other male-female specific attributes.) (One often overlooked reason for why Arabs keep their women covered, is because they are just so damn ugly.)


Um,,,,, Yea,,, but,,,, the question that Scott asked was about Feminists not females in general.....
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Postby ariellowen » Sat May 26, 2007 12:30 pm

ScottMears wrote:Cambodia huh? Is there a website where I can book a trip like this?

Sure, http://www.expedia.com/ .

-Oni Omega- wrote:What a pile of stupid steriotypical shizzat.
...
note: i bolded the things i know to be plain wrong.

In fairness to your feelings, I do regret my disparaging remark about Spanish women, as they as well as their New World counter parts can be very beautiful. There are of course exceptions and middling races such as Indians and Slavs where both attractive men and women are common. But generally the expression ''tall dark and handsome'' holds for men, while ''fair maiden'' or ''little hottie'' holds for women. Slavs, for example, are tall and fair. (Recall also that in Italy and Korea, the women of the north, and the men of the south are, locally, considered more attractive; Thais hold the women with more Chinese in their blood, ie lighter complexioned, to be the nicest looking.)(With regard to Yunanistan: Apollo is a god --Aphrodite can hardly be called a looker.)

Regarding your bolding: not sure about your objection to my claim that European women are hairy --they are.

Korean men under the age of about 35 are more or less the definition of metrosexual, and (middle-class) Thai young men look just about like lady-boys whether or not they're pre-op or post. And sorry, but Middle-Eastern and Mediterranean women are by in large down right homely.

Tabula Rasa wrote:Must admit - Haven't seen many middle-aged foreign women tramping about in Turkey looking for the Mehmet of their dreams. I'll ask one next time I see one.

If you're in Turkey now (I'm in İstanbul this week for business), just ask around. (Don't forget that female sex-tourism operates quite differently than male --you may be seeing it and not realize it.) (Bali is a major sex-tourism destination for Japanese women: taller, darker --and hairier.)
While men tend to go to Asia for sex tourism, women tend to head to the Caribbean, Southern Europe, and Africa.
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_sex_tourism

I might add as well, that these facts also apply to homosexuals; Morocco is a major destination for homosexual European sex-tourists, While the Go-Go bars in Angeles City Philippines have their fair share of lesbians.

Kriswest wrote:Um,,,,, Yea,,, but,,,, the question that Scott asked was about Feminists not females in general.....

I just mean to offer an alternative hypothesis: racialism, to the Feminist theory that women shave their legs for infantalist reasons.
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Postby Kriswest » Sat May 26, 2007 12:51 pm

LOL homely people are obviously not homely to some, otherwise we all would be downright perfect. Beautiful people tend to know they are and become downright useless. They can't seem to get their nose away from the mirror.

In one way you could say that beauty is held to be worthless to some and homely is the true beauty.

And back to shaving. Unshaved legs can be downright itchy depending what material of clothing you are wearing and perhaps how tight it is and the weather. Form fitting blue jeans,unshaved legs and a hot day combine to make your legs itch like crazy especially once the blue jeans are removed.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Postby someoneisatthedoor » Sat May 26, 2007 5:22 pm

Tabula Rasa wrote:Must admit - Haven't seen many middle-aged foreign women tramping about in Turkey looking for the Mehmet of their dreams. I'll ask one next time I see one.


:D :D

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Postby ariellowen » Sat May 26, 2007 6:15 pm

Kriswest wrote:LOL homely people are obviously not homely to some....

When Feminists consider Yellow Fever (not the physiological African disease, the psychological Asian one) they describe it in terms of Ageist terms:IPSO EST: Infantilism. But ironically, what could be more racist? a fall back to the days of ''our little brown brothers''; as Feminism is largely and was first an Anglo-American phenomenon, exactly the culture which denies the existence of race, they could hardly explain the wide-spread male sexual facination with Asian women in terms of race.

Egyptian women have more in common with Egyptian men than they do with Laotian women. Though the beauty of blonde Swedish women is almost cliché, lightness of complexion is not the only factor to female beauty. In fact, in Egypt, it is the Nubian women of Upper Egypt who are locally considered the most attractive; though dark-skinned, they are petite and button-nosed --unlike the Semetics.

The beautiful women of Ancient Egypt, prior to the Arab invasion of the 7th century were lithe and waif-like with cute little noses as evidenced by their art, see for example the goddess of beauty Hathor, and many other images:
Image
It was not until the late Ptolemaic period that Roman noses appear in Egyptian Art, Alexander for instance was origionally portrayed in the same cute Hentai-like style that Tut was.

Feminists have been hamstrung by their Anglo-American anti-racist heritage in their consideration of gender relations. Theory of Personal Beauty has been completely over-run by Ageist Feminism, where Racist theory is at least as explanative. There is no doubt that 14 year old women are often nicer looking than 40 year olds, but Feminist denial of race has wound up being more racist than racial explanations.

Not only Yellow Fever and the Ageist theory Feminists have put forward, but also Feminist explanations of Hentai are racist.
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Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat May 26, 2007 6:29 pm

I've had the yellow fever before. And the middle eastern fever. And the spanish/hispanic whatever fever. I really don't care where a ho is from. I will say though that my own good white women have the pinkest pink parts. I've never been turned on by brownish nipples or uh...yeah. I made my last girlfriend stop tanning because of that. Is that pink fever? Or pink parts of white girls fever? I'm not reallly up on all the slang.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

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Postby sirswedishmike » Sat May 26, 2007 7:45 pm

It was speculated earlier that maybe feminists are sexually frustrated women.

could it also be speculated that many anti-feminist males may be sexually frustrated men.

If my premise is true, here is my advice to the sexually frustrated men on this forum: Just listen to the women you hang out with, and try to fill her needs, she probably will listen back to you, and try to help you with your needs. No women has stompled and tried to conquer me b/c I listen to them and try to fill their needs. Having freedom to be who you are in a relationship is caused by mutual love and understanding, it takes way... way... more fucken energy to be an asshole, and then "when" she figures out your misogenous ways, she will fuck you over back. Women are only passive until acted upon.

Men and women are different in every culture either caused by biology or cultural circumstances (though there is always some overlap), and I am not denying that. but I find this thread interesting in that it is kind of like a "girls vs. boys" game or something.

Trying to proove that gender roles are biological doesn't proove that they "have" to be that way. Humans are constantly changing due to environment and circumstance. The question we should ask is, "what kind of world do we want our kids to grow up in?" ... not, "if that is how it was back then, that is how its gots to be now."

If you are a misogenous male, and that is the world you envision to live in, fine, but realize that women are now dominating the psychology field, and that more men want more harmony, and we are starting to outnumber you in politics, and if we catch you doing really bad shit to women, we will lock your sorry hateful ass up in jail, and only smile as your limbs atrophete. ... don't worry though, cause bubba will keep you company like no woman ever could. :lol:
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Re: What Is Your Understanding Of A Feminist? Are You One?

Postby aspacia » Sat May 26, 2007 8:12 pm

RicDemian wrote:In Who Stole Feminism? philosopher Christina Hoff Sommers distinguishes 2 schools of thought. Equity feminism, which oppose sex discrimination and unfairness to women, and gender feminism, which is an empirical doctrine regarding human nature. According to gender feminism the differences in the roles of between men and women are not rooted in biology or psychology, but socially constructed and motivated out of the urge for power. It further claims that men as a group oppose women. Genders are taken as competing units.

Equity feminism is simply fairness applied to the genders and in the classical liberal tradition. Anyone oppose it?

Any informed feminists please fill in the details or correct my skeletal representations.


Chuckle, there are more than two schools of thought regarding feminism. There is a group that denigrates all men, others me focus on the superiority of women, but believe that women need men for procreation, others claim that men are unneccessary and violent, then the group that appeals to me accepts humans as humans, who simply should be treated in a similar, equitable fashion. However, there are problems with the equitable part in some professions. Can a woman be as good a fireperson as a male in carrying a 150lb. person from a burning building? Can a woman fight as well as a man in hand to hand combat? Can a woman be as effective in law enforcement as a man? Some studies show that women have a calming effect on violent situations. Can a man be as effective in verbals skills as women? Can a man be as resourceful as women in figuring out how to achieve certain goals? Can a man multitask as well as a woman?

Some studies argue that the advent of discrimination against women occurred with the advent of property ownership, but how does this explain the misogyny among nomadic groups. Then again, other studies reveal that the early rural communities valued women equally with men as the burial chambers show that both had equal status.

Regardless, currently, most of the world's women are subjegated and discriminated against, and religion is usually the justification for this. Great strides have been made, and women would not have the rights they now have, if not for men.

We are all human, but frankly, men have superior strengths in some areas, and women have superior strengths in other areas. That is, we need each other for balance.

8)

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Postby aspacia » Sat May 26, 2007 8:19 pm

Kriswest wrote:Feminism can be seperated into groups. The most basic with out malice towards males is the suffragette. All that female, wants is equal rights and equal pay for equal work. Now go on down to the other end of the line and you have what I like to refer to as Amazonian cannibals. They would just love for the male gender to vanish altogether because they feel men are the root of all evil.

Most women fall inbetween these two groups somwhere. The majority leaning more on the suffragette side. I am a suffragette. I do enjoy being treated like a lady. I am an equal human to males but, I do enjoy being feminine.

I probably should give an example of being treated as a lady.

If I get a flat tire I know that some man will more than likely help me change the tire. In return for being treated in such a manner I help men out when they need it like in a store. I have seen many men standing lost in front of store shelves with a list in their hands. They have no clue what they are supposed to choose or do. I assist them. Gender roles are real wther society constructed them or not, it is irrelevent. They exist. So we are obliged to assist each other as needed. I trust that if I am stuck on a road alone 90% of males will help me rather than harm me.
Genders are different but, equal. If we were the same we would not need each other.


LOL, my significant other was single for eleven years, and has zero problems with shopping for any product, and I sure as hell can change a flat tire. However, forget the car repair-I was never taught as my gonads were in the wrong place. However, we both swap household and yard chores, and we know how to wipe our own ass without help.

8)
"The moment you give up your principles and your values, the moment you laugh at those principles and those values, you are dead, your culture is dead, your civilization is dead. Period." Oriana Fallaci

God Bless America, The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave -- but with flaws that we are working on.

Qui es ignarus quod tumidus ero ignarus

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Postby aspacia » Sat May 26, 2007 8:27 pm

What's the problem Joker? No woman willing to put out, and you're feeling frustrated?

Ah, the stimulation and beauty of a regular, monogamous sex life! Eat your heart out children.

:evilfun:
"The moment you give up your principles and your values, the moment you laugh at those principles and those values, you are dead, your culture is dead, your civilization is dead. Period." Oriana Fallaci

God Bless America, The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave -- but with flaws that we are working on.

Qui es ignarus quod tumidus ero ignarus

fight CAIR
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Know your friends well; know your enemies better. Know their weakness and exploit it to your advantage.

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Postby Kriswest » Sat May 26, 2007 8:38 pm

aspacia wrote:
Kriswest wrote:Feminism can be seperated into groups. The most basic with out malice towards males is the suffragette. All that female, wants is equal rights and equal pay for equal work. Now go on down to the other end of the line and you have what I like to refer to as Amazonian cannibals. They would just love for the male gender to vanish altogether because they feel men are the root of all evil.

Most women fall inbetween these two groups somwhere. The majority leaning more on the suffragette side. I am a suffragette. I do enjoy being treated like a lady. I am an equal human to males but, I do enjoy being feminine.

I probably should give an example of being treated as a lady.

If I get a flat tire I know that some man will more than likely help me change the tire. In return for being treated in such a manner I help men out when they need it like in a store. I have seen many men standing lost in front of store shelves with a list in their hands. They have no clue what they are supposed to choose or do. I assist them. Gender roles are real wther society constructed them or not, it is irrelevent. They exist. So we are obliged to assist each other as needed. I trust that if I am stuck on a road alone 90% of males will help me rather than harm me.
Genders are different but, equal. If we were the same we would not need each other.


LOL, my significant other was single for eleven years, and has zero problems with shopping for any product, and I sure as hell can change a flat tire. However, forget the car repair-I was never taught as my gonads were in the wrong place. However, we both swap household and yard chores, and we know how to wipe our own ass without help.

8)


Fascinating. so you did not read the entire thread? LOL
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Postby aspacia » Sat May 26, 2007 8:41 pm

Joker wrote:
SuperMan wrote:
Joker wrote:
SuperMan wrote:do u believe women should get equal pay for equal work?


I can agree with equal pay. Although I wish there was more stay at home moms for the mental development of children.



do u have any evidence to back this up such as evidence that stay at home moms produce children that are somehow suprior to those with working moms?


Compare the 1950's to today's social decadent lifestyles in Western civilization. If you think today's form of family is better I suggest a dose of crazy be gone.


LOL, the 50's were a time of racism and sexism. Lynchings and uncontrolled domestic violence occurred. The rape victim was the one accused, "what did you do to cause him to rape you?" Shit, even during the 70's girls had to wear dresses and skirts to school. Women we not allowed equity in the workplace if they wanted to remain single, or wanted to leave a abusive husband.


Go read a history book!

Where do these uneducated idiots come from? :evilfun:
"The moment you give up your principles and your values, the moment you laugh at those principles and those values, you are dead, your culture is dead, your civilization is dead. Period." Oriana Fallaci

God Bless America, The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave -- but with flaws that we are working on.

Qui es ignarus quod tumidus ero ignarus

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Postby aspacia » Sat May 26, 2007 9:08 pm

Technology is missing from the various claims. The issue of strength may be moot, as eventually robots will be able to do what most humans cannot physically do., and are currently doing so in automobile plants. That is, a woman can run a ranch or farm just as effectively as a man as she has harvesters and helicopters to reap and herd cattle. Airplanes and bombs have replaced the need for numerous combat troops. Pneumatic wrenches replace the need for brute strength to replace a tire. A mechanical pulley can remove a engine for repair.

The mechanization of the world has created more balance, and allows women freedom she has never before known. We have washers, dryers, microwaves, edgers, mowers, and both men and women can just as effectively do housework and yardwork.

Similar to Kris, I work ten and eleven hour days, but this is for pay, and great medical benefits. Thankfully, if the worst happens with my significant other's work, I make enough to provide for both of us. It is nice to be valued as a mate and economic contributor to the household.

=D>
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