Moderator: Uccisore
Magnus Anderson wrote: Imagine poetry that does not rhyme simply because people naturally do not speak in rhymes.
Wait there weren't quotas before 20 years ago? Hollywood didn't have political messages in say, the 40s, didn't have messages about what women, men, let alone other categories ARE AND SHOULD BE?Urwrongx1000 wrote:Speaking of which, Hollywood, within the past 20 years, have turned from simple fantasies, into a full political-movement.
Pandora wrote:Let me play the devil's advocate here and ask you: Is it really Hollywood to blame? Or could it be that people WANT to see fantasy, and Hollywood capitalizes on that.
[/quote]Pandora wrote:Even fiction movies that allude to the truth in metaphorical way draw audience because of their fictitious/artistic presentation, not because of the truth value they deliver (which may be considered after the fact). Do you think Matrix generated $170 million because of its truth value? I think not.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=matrix.htm
It is ironic that even in order to tell a truth, you'd have to lie and exaggerate. I am not saying how it should be but how it seems to work with many people's psychologies. Inspiration through a lie. (maybe similar to Lee's Life of Pi, or Sigh's The Fall, which deal with self/other deception in order to convey a realistic message because the character is either too immature/weak, or unwilling to face reality head on)
It reminds me of the of the photography vs paining debate. Photography, it is said, is not art, because it only documents, it does not produce anything new, or its own. It just copies, it does not produce or create. If Hollywood switched to producing only documentaries, I'm pretty sure its audience would drop, and then it would go broke. And the first story teller with extraordinary story to step out would become a literary hero again. So, who's to blame if people themselves are drawn fantasy and exaggeration and seek out the most extraordinary story teller? It's like sugar addiction; people naturally crave sugar and someone steps in to exploit it - because it is an exploitable craving. Not all are susceptible to it, of course. Some like realistic dramas, and if something in the plot is outside the realistic probabilities the viewer might feel insulted, or looked down upon, and refuse to follow along any further. This could be interpreted in many ways, such as a person who might have an undeveloped imagination, or one who prefers to stay within rigid confines of realism; though he might still identify with childhood fantasy stories (because children will believe in fantasy); but then, he would identify specifically with his own childhood (past self, and not the present).
But this might be an increasing minority of general population, as Hollywood feeds unrealistic "hyper symbolic" and detached and sugar-coated themes to ever increasing audience, as if it tires to preserve and elevate the importance of human life, of self. In Hollywood, no matter what happens with a character, good or bad, it must happen with a bang, flair and fireworks.
Karpel Tunnel wrote:Wait there weren't quotas before 20 years ago? Hollywood didn't have political messages in say, the 40s, didn't have messages about what women, men, let alone other categories ARE AND SHOULD BE?
Pandora wrote:Magnus Anderson wrote: Imagine poetry that does not rhyme simply because people naturally do not speak in rhymes.
Wouldn’t that just make it prose?
Speaking of which, Hollywood, within the past 20 years, have turned from simple fantasies, into a full political-movement. Instead of movies being about entertainment, per se, now there are unspoken 'quotas' that this lead needs to be a woman, or black, such as in the newer Star Wars releases.
Pandora wrote:I think that such psychology existed way before Hollywood. Yes, people look to Hollywood to tell them what they are. But what came first?
Look what is happening on YouTube - a free social media outlet. Nobody’s forcing people to tell particular views so what is driving the psychologies of people like flat earthers and conspiracy theorists? Where are all these ideas coming from?
Pandora wrote:Why, given the enormous amount of information available at their fingertips (including basic common sense), do some people reach for the most extraordinary explanation (such as of an artifact or an event)? The basic message is “look, we live in a lie”, be it due to government conspiracy or some hidden historical facts. This is not coming from Hollywood, but it is the same kind of psychology that exists in population that is drawn to alternate explanations. The only thing that I can deduce is that this psychology has always existed but is now simply not actively sensored or controlled by society. It now has a free outlet. Perhaps a more fundamental question is whether people have changed that much since the advent of industrial revolution and scientific exploration, or whether there is still vestigial superstitious instinct that survived.
Magnus Anderson wrote:I think we should do some justice to Hollywood and acknowledge that Hollywood makes the best movies there are despite all of their flaws.
Urwron wrote:
Hollywood dominates around the entire world
surreptitious75 wrote:This is true but the largest film industry is actually the Indian one
Today the Middle Class has changed, and expanded, so as to include women, minorities, and black people. Now "Classical" Hollywood also includes, more and more, women and minorities into their images. The new Star Wars. The new television programs. The new commercials. All of this is done to sell, and make money. In a way, the well has run dry in terms of economic, money supply, for white males. White males have lost a lot of buying-power, whereas women and minorities have picked up the slack. Now the women and minorities have the buying-power. And so Hollywood seeks to cater new propaganda, new fantasies, to them.
In the 40s, yes, it was simpler, but so were people. They had less sources of information. The churches has much more power over minds. Of course today people are manipulated in all sorts of ways, but the opportunity to get information that will make you skeptical of the dominant meme and culture allow individuals a better chance of disengaging. The roles of both men and women were much stiffer then. People dove at specific boxes and the propaganda suggesting they do that DID NOT NEED TO BE advanced, or as advanced.Urwrongx1000 wrote:Propaganda has advanced and is now exponential.
To me it doesn't matter how I or we are being manipulated and boxed, but that we are being boxed. The social pressures for conformism were simpler and much more effective in the sense that anyone doing something different really stood out. Yes, most individual diversity today is shallow, on the other hand it is easier to find others and streams and subcultures within the dominant culture if you are awake enough or skeptical enough or have enough intuition to do so.Also the political messages in the 1940s-1960s are almost the exact opposite as the prevalent messages today. Housewives, traditional gender-roles, the nuclear family, the Red Scare, etc.
[/quote]And we still get right wing BS from HOllywood about how experts, government and industry and police and the CIA and so on, must be trusted, espcially in crisis. Hollywood does tend tot he left, but when it comes to foreign policy and power and class dynamics it sends out very mixed messages, never manages to stop militarycorporate choices and ultimately marginalizes independent thinking. Hollywood would overwhelmingly push for Democrats. Whoopy, a slightly left party, wholly beholden to Wall street and the Military industrial complex. The right is upset at Hollywood's spreading of certain social values and there is a lot to criticize there. but the rights fucking social values were deadening, controlling, shaming, garbage. I'm old enough to have lived through when they had the political correctness and it was completely fucked up. Such hatred of anything out of the box. Like that asshole, childhating 7th grade teacher glaring at students was in charge of all minds. Such fearfilled and yet at the same time fear denying (not being honest, that is) ideas about women, men, normality, other races, sexuality, sex in general, how to fucking sit for gods sake. A fucking nation of gray minded peopel clucking their tongues at anything that wasn't what they thought was normal. And then making sure the police, teachers, psychiatrists, employers punished anyone for being slightly different. I am not even thinking of sexuality. Anything, stuff you take for granted today as being within the range of normal, even right wing people. Let alone the infantilization of women. No housewife should feel shame for being that, sure. But the incredibly idiotic limitations put on the minds of women are completely contradicted by what women are clearly capable of. And men, the right's political correctness made stiff, bizzarre, cardboard men who were socially retarded.It seems the Red Scare is still alive though. The government scared the US populace of Russian, and still do it today (scapegoating the Democrat loss in the recent election).
Karpel Tunnel wrote:And we still get right wing BS from HOllywood about how experts, government and industry and police and the CIA and so on, must be trusted, espcially in crisis. Hollywood does tend tot he left, but when it comes to foreign policy and power and class dynamics it sends out very mixed messages, never manages to stop militarycorporate choices and ultimately marginalizes independent thinking. Hollywood would overwhelmingly push for Democrats. Whoopy, a slightly left party, wholly beholden to Wall street and the Military industrial complex. The right is upset at Hollywood's spreading of certain social values and there is a lot to criticize there. but the rights fucking social values were deadening, controlling, shaming, garbage. I'm old enough to have lived through when they had the political correctness and it was completely fucked up. Such hatred of anything out of the box. Like that asshole, childhating 7th grade teacher glaring at students was in charge of all minds. Such fearfilled and yet at the same time fear denying (not being honest, that is) ideas about women, men, normality, other races, sexuality, sex in general, how to fucking sit for gods sake. A fucking nation of gray minded peopel clucking their tongues at anything that wasn't what they thought was normal. And then making sure the police, teachers, psychiatrists, employers punished anyone for being slightly different. I am not even thinking of sexuality. Anything, stuff you take for granted today as being within the range of normal, even right wing people. Let alone the infantilization of women. No housewife should feel shame for being that, sure. But the incredibly idiotic limitations put on the minds of women are completely contradicted by what women are clearly capable of. And men, the right's political correctness made stiff, bizzarre, cardboard men who were socially retarded.
By the way, this is an interesting claim, especially the genetic part, or exploring a transition from genetic to memetic tendencies. How do you think populations like red necks and zionist jews fit into this theory?The base population, 80% of humanity, are literally inheritors of slave-genetics, and this reflects lower levels of intelligence. Low and average intelligent humanity clings to mythology, fantasy, and whatever 'conspiracy' theory, because this is how their minds retain ideals of control. If everything can be reduced to mind-games, to disregard reality, then this is how the powerless retain the hope for control in their own minds and personal lives. If reality can be negated, annulled, then low and average intelligent people, feel that they can 'control' or begin to order life, in their own way.
Return to Society, Government, and Economics
Users browsing this forum: No registered users