Income Disparity

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Re: Income Disparity

Postby Mr Reasonable » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:33 am

James, I'm going to insist that you elaborate. And I would appreciate it if you'd step out from around your obvious kool aid drinking, and consider the argument for something you disagree with, without attempting to dismiss it with cryptic nonsense or sweeping generalizations.
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby Faust » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:12 pm

Well, Mr R has done as well as I could, here. Wendy, there's a difference between finding ways to fail and finding ways to succeed. Everyone has their own path.
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:30 pm

James S Saint wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Sure, their new low income job is going to pay for their relocation with premium movers, a company house, and $5000 relocation finance monies. :lol: Faust is funny.

Well, if it doesn't, the unemployment rate is so low, they can just go find a better paying job .. unless they are just lazy slackers.

Everyone knows that the poor and homeless are that way only because they choose to be.
Yes, yes, they squander their savings.

Mr Reasonable wrote:For instance, Wendy has a dog. So she's feeding a dog. That must be part of her budget. So when she has a budget shortfall and can't get ahead and buy a bus ticket or book an air bnb, it makes sense to say that she'd rather feed and maintain a pet. Whatever it costs to feed the dog for a week multiplied by x number of weeks equals the money she'd need to get closer to being ahead. Right?

He's an unofficial therapy dog who I baby, he deserves it for keeping me alive. You I'd starve and save the money. :evilfun:

Faust wrote:Well, Mr R has done as well as I could, here. Wendy, there's a difference between finding ways to fail and finding ways to succeed. Everyone has their own path.

If you consider earning an income in the illegal drug trade a way, I guess criminality doesn't matter...it's at any and all costs...this success. I failed to become a criminal, shame on me.
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I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby Faust » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:58 pm

Ummm, I meant on this thread, not in real life.
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby zinnat » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:11 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Is $6 a month considered a lot by the poor there? Here we pay $35+ for the same.


No, it is not. It is so cheap now that even poor by Indian standards can afford it. Latest 4G VOLTE technology is now all IP based, means calls and sms now go though internet instead of traditional circuit switch based (3G) technology. 4G technology is 3 times faster than 3G and 6 times faster than 2G and it can handle manytimes more data traffic also thus cheap also. US based operators are still not using this. That is why you are paying more for it.

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Re: Income Disparity

Postby zinnat » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:33 pm

WendyDarling wrote:What percentage of his income is he paying for internet service? What is his income in US dollars? Do you pay 70% of your income on food Zinnat?


The income of my family, which includes me and my wife but excludes my both children, is roughly 500 USD per month now, out of which we spend 8 USD for internet and phone services.

Secondly, we do not spend 70% of our income on food. That is roughly 15% and that is without any compromise too. But yes, we rarely go to restaurants and cook at home only. Only some street food once in a while.

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Re: Income Disparity

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:06 pm

James S Saint wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Sure, their new low income job is going to pay for their relocation with premium movers, a company house, and $5000 relocation finance monies. :lol: Faust is funny.

Well, if it doesn't, the unemployment rate is so low, they can just go find a better paying job .. unless they are just lazy slackers.

Everyone knows that the poor and homeless are that way only because they choose to be.


K: I was homeless for a few months back in the early 1990's and trust
me, I had no choice of any kind.... it just happened that way....
and quite often it does just happen... most Americans are only 3 paychecks
from being homeless and all it would take is two events like, losing a job and
getting hit with a medical bills and that its....it really doesn't take much more
to become homeless...it is easy to dismiss the poor or homeless if you
haven't been there.......

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Re: Income Disparity

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:33 pm

zinnat wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:What percentage of his income is he paying for internet service? What is his income in US dollars? Do you pay 70% of your income on food Zinnat?


The income of my family, which includes me and my wife but excludes my both children, is roughly 500 USD per month now, out of which we spend 8 USD for internet and phone services.

Secondly, we do not spend 70% of our income on food. That is roughly 15% and that is without any compromise too. But yes, we rarely go to restaurants and cook at home only. Only some street food once in a while.

with love,
sanjay

For home phone and internet service, we pay almost $80. For cell phones, another $100. Since we live in the countryside where internet service is interrupted, we have to have a landline for emergency purposes and general calls half of the time. It's ridiculously expensive...someday we'll get enough signal towers.

Where does the lion's share of your income go? What kind of healthcare system is available in India? How much can you save or invest each month towards your future?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby James S Saint » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:35 pm

Internet and phone are relatively cheap today only because they are an integral part of the governance, mostly the surveillance part. The prices go up as the government's need for them goes down, due to other means to achieve the same goal of population control. The more godlike they become, the less they care about what you think, do, or say (the whole point to being a god - to remove the need to care about anyone else's concerns).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby Faust » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:56 pm

tentative wrote:That the U.S. is currently suffering a giant gap in wealth distribution is way past obvious. So what are the possible solutions? I don't wanna hear the simplistic "kill the lawyers" or "just work hard and bootstrap yourself into affluence". They are solutions, but they resort to violence or are destined to fail from the outset.

What are some plausible realistic steps that could be taken to begin reversing this ugly trend? We are supposedly intelligent people so lets apply those bright lights and come up with some solutions that would actually work. Being a little light on the intelligence part, I have a couple of lame ideas that might work, but I invite all you brilliant people to weigh in. What are the fixes?


One question I would ask is, "Why is this a problem?" Not because I don't think it is, but because this is not a single problem with a simple solution. But just for instance, income inequality is not a problem per se, as there will always be some. It's a much less dire problem if the populace in general is satisfied with their lot than if they are not. Nor is it too much of a problem if the same forces that bring inequality also bring relative affluence to those at the lower end.

But there is more. There is more to compensation than cash income and this compensation has value. There is value in employer-paid benefits like health insurance, vacation time, childcare and the like. If my wages have stagnated but my and my employer's health care costs have gone up, then maybe a shift in tax policy alone is not the best solution. Maybe single-payer health care has the best cost/benefit ratio. That is affected by tax policy, to be sure. Taxes would be paying for health care. They do now, in overt and relatively hidden ways.

If the employer cost of health care has risen so fast that it prevents higher wages, then maybe a more efficient system of health care delivery would allow wages to increase. There are people, and I don't know how many, who change from a higher paying job to a lower paying job because the latter provides better and more affordable health care. That would drive wages down for that person, but perhaps not total employee compensation.

Just taxing passive income more heavily may not be the best way to go for anyone.
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby tentative » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:25 am

Faust wrote:
tentative wrote:That the U.S. is currently suffering a giant gap in wealth distribution is way past obvious. So what are the possible solutions? I don't wanna hear the simplistic "kill the lawyers" or "just work hard and bootstrap yourself into affluence". They are solutions, but they resort to violence or are destined to fail from the outset.

What are some plausible realistic steps that could be taken to begin reversing this ugly trend? We are supposedly intelligent people so lets apply those bright lights and come up with some solutions that would actually work. Being a little light on the intelligence part, I have a couple of lame ideas that might work, but I invite all you brilliant people to weigh in. What are the fixes?


One question I would ask is, "Why is this a problem?" Not because I don't think it is, but because this is not a single problem with a simple solution. But just for instance, income inequality is not a problem per se, as there will always be some. It's a much less dire problem if the populace in general is satisfied with their lot than if they are not. Nor is it too much of a problem if the same forces that bring inequality also bring relative affluence to those at the lower end.

But there is more. There is more to compensation than cash income and this compensation has value. There is value in employer-paid benefits like health insurance, vacation time, childcare and the like. If my wages have stagnated but my and my employer's health care costs have gone up, then maybe a shift in tax policy alone is not the best solution. Maybe single-payer health care has the best cost/benefit ratio. That is affected by tax policy, to be sure. Taxes would be paying for health care. They do now, in overt and relatively hidden ways.

If the employer cost of health care has risen so fast that it prevents higher wages, then maybe a more efficient system of health care delivery would allow wages to increase. There are people, and I don't know how many, who change from a higher paying job to a lower paying job because the latter provides better and more affordable health care. That would drive wages down for that person, but perhaps not total employee compensation.

Just taxing passive income more heavily may not be the best way to go for anyone.


That opener was left deliberately - open. I think there is much more than income that I would call disparity. Why do we never discuss the disparity in living conditions? The wealthy live in gated communities next to a golf course while those on the bottom of the economic ladder are lucky to have a shitty apartment in unsafe slums. Why do the children of the wealthy attend private schools with all the amenities while the poor attend schools where a drive by shooting occurs weekly. What sort of society allows lead to be delivered in its drinking water? How in the hell did we ever allow the term "upscale" to become a common reality? Fuck the income issues, their bad enough, but disparity in how we live is the real disparity. Sure, it's all about the bucks but WTF?
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby Faust » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:22 am

Yeah, tent, I agree. If I had to pick just three items on the consumer side that have the most impact on quality of life, it would be housing, health care and transportation. Everything else is cheap. Health care, well, there are models (like that exotic entity, Medicare) that are already in place.

I could write a book on why there is so much shitty housing, and how a slum begins and grows. And by the time I am done at my present job, I might just. I work in a community of less that 100,000 and we have over 300 vacant houses, representing possibly 1,000 units. In fact, that's a stat I'll have to generate. Most of them are held by a few major banks who are managing their loss portfolios - the banks are often in no great hurry to unload them. Now, that's in a place where this condition has been neglected for years. Government policy can and does change that.

Putting these properties in the hands of owner-occupiers is extremely difficult but this is an area where tax policy could actually do some good.

Good call, tent.

These are the real issues of poverty.
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby zinnat » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:12 am

WendyDarling wrote:Where does the lion's share of your income go? What kind of healthcare system is available in India? How much can you save or invest each month towards your future?


Upto three years back, we were not able to save anything. As our both children were studying engineering so our whole savings used to go for their studies. Then firstly my daughter became IT engineer and got a very good job. One year later my son also became IT graduate and got into a job and their cumulative earning is 5 times more than me and my wife.

So now we have a lot to spend and save. Our regular necessary living expenses are not more than half of what we earn. In the last three years we have bought some new goods for home, which includes one bike and one scooter, a new big fridge, some furniture and furnishings and some new kitchen and other home appliances. Now we roughly save 1/3 of what we earn. Besides that, now our children also send some money to us. Now we can save almost all what we earn. That also goes into savings which are basically bank deposits and equities.

There are some kind of public healthcare available here. For salaried people in formal sectors, either public or private, one can get free treatment in lieu of very nominal contribution. To give you an example, my wife has to contribute 5$ per month to avail this facility. But, it is an issue for who are not working in organized sector. Government has introduced some cheap schemes for those very recently but those are not good enough. Yes, public hospitals are there and very cheap also but not up to the mark.

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Re: Income Disparity

Postby Alf » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:53 pm

zinnat wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Well you have access to the internet...a luxury. Others have said that having electricity or any form of transportation other than walking is a luxury one should go without upgrades to horses, two wheelers, four wheelers. We can get all kinds of ridiculous if we compare country by country what "real poverty" is. It's dying homeless from famine naked in a snow laddened street in -20F weather during a blizzard, so you are spoiled too Zinnat. I mean really. Most Africans have it the worst...agreed? So Zinnat lives in luxury compared to the desert nomads of Africa who are running from kids with machetes. Grow up people with your misplaced finger wagging.


That generally happens with young people. They get angry very easily.

By the way, internet costs me merely 6 $ per month, which includes unlimited sms and calls per day and 1 GB of 4G internet data daily. But yes, some people living in any remote place in Africa may call it a luxury. And, that is precisely why i said that i do not consider myself a poor.

Realize that poverty has nothing much to do with the means of living or wealth one have. You would always run into trouble if you take that as a benchmark for deciding poverty because then everyone on this earth becomes poor in the comparison of Bill Gates or Jeff Bezros so do not make it a relative issue.

To me, one becomes poor only when one cannot do or achieve most of those things in spite of one's best efforts what he/she would be able to do if the necessary means were available to him.


with love,
sanjay

Poverty or poorness is nevertheless the opposite of wealth or richness.

If people in developed countries have to economically live like people in other countries, they are much poorer than the poorest in their countries.
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby tentative » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:33 am

Alf wrote:
zinnat wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Well you have access to the internet...a luxury. Others have said that having electricity or any form of transportation other than walking is a luxury one should go without upgrades to horses, two wheelers, four wheelers. We can get all kinds of ridiculous if we compare country by country what "real poverty" is. It's dying homeless from famine naked in a snow laddened street in -20F weather during a blizzard, so you are spoiled too Zinnat. I mean really. Most Africans have it the worst...agreed? So Zinnat lives in luxury compared to the desert nomads of Africa who are running from kids with machetes. Grow up people with your misplaced finger wagging.


That generally happens with young people. They get angry very easily.

By the way, internet costs me merely 6 $ per month, which includes unlimited sms and calls per day and 1 GB of 4G internet data daily. But yes, some people living in any remote place in Africa may call it a luxury. And, that is precisely why i said that i do not consider myself a poor.

Realize that poverty has nothing much to do with the means of living or wealth one have. You would always run into trouble if you take that as a benchmark for deciding poverty because then everyone on this earth becomes poor in the comparison of Bill Gates or Jeff Bezros so do not make it a relative issue.

To me, one becomes poor only when one cannot do or achieve most of those things in spite of one's best efforts what he/she would be able to do if the necessary means were available to him.


with love,
sanjay

Poverty or poorness is nevertheless the opposite of wealth or richness.

If people in developed countries have to economically live like people in other countries, they are much poorer than the poorest in their countries.


It would appear that all you've done is confirm that income disparity is a global issue. The definition of poor may be a local determination, but the income disparity is always there.
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby WendyDarling » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:23 pm

In the USA, the income disparity is 20% in wealth, 80% in poverty and when the baby boomers die, the disparity will grow even greater...10% in wealth and 90% in poverty.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby tentative » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:00 pm

WendyDarling wrote:In the USA, the income disparity is 20% in wealth, 80% in poverty and when the baby boomers die, the disparity will grow even greater...10% in wealth and 90% in poverty.


Are you sure about that 80% number? I'd agree that most of us aren't in the wealthy category, but that doesn't mean that we're 80% in poverty.
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby WendyDarling » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:10 pm

If you earn over $50,000 you are wealthy. If you earn under $50,000 you are part of the lower class, living for each paycheck with little to no breathing room. What are lower class folks...poor? Earn under $30,000 and you are poor with holes in your Walmart undies and socks. I laid this out on page one of this thread.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby tentative » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:53 pm

WendyDarling wrote:If you earn over $50,000 you are wealthy. If you earn under $50,000 you are part of the lower class, living for each paycheck with little to no breathing room. What are lower class folks...poor? Earn under $30,000 and you are poor with holes in your Walmart undies and socks. I laid this out on page one of this thread.


The best numbers we have comes from the 2013 census. In their final report they had the poverty level at 14.5% which was approx. 45 million U.S. citizens. They also noted that the poverty level was improving, but very slowly because of the 2006 crash.

IT is possible that the 80% in poverty statement might be a little bit of hyperbole? If we accept the CB report as credible, then approx. 85 % of Americans are not living in poverty.

I grant that only 10% are the insanely wealthy, but saying 80% of Americans are living in poverty seems a bit extreme. You are, of course, welcome and entitled to your opinion.
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Sorry, arguing with the ignorant is like trying to wrestle with a jellyfish. No matter how many tentacles you cut off there are always more, and there isn't even a brain to stun. - Maia

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Re: Income Disparity

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:11 am

The best numbers we have comes from the 2013 census. In their final report they had the poverty level at 14.5% which was approx. 45 million U.S. citizens. They also noted that the poverty level was improving, but very slowly because of the 2006 crash.

What was the 2013 poverty line in terms of income? :-k Was it a ridiculously low income amount, like less than the minimum wage at 7.25 X 40 hrs. wk. which is a gross of $15,080? Is it $12,331 like it is stated in the 2015 Census?

How many people earn under $30,000?

The massive and growing gulf between rich and poor is one of the direst challenges facing the U.S. economy.

Highlighting this gap, more than half of U.S. wage earners made less than $30,000 last year, according to an analysis released by the Social Security Administration on Tuesday. That’s not far above the $27,010 that marked the federal poverty line for a family of five in 2012.

We’ve created this infographic to help visualize the skewed income distribution in the country.

Where do you stack up?

-If you make more than $10,000, you earn more than 24.2% of Americans, or 37 million people.

-If you make more than $15,000 (roughly the annual salary of a minimum-wage employee working 40 hours per week), you earn more than 32.2% of Americans.

-If you make more than $30,000, you earn more than 53.2% of Americans.

-If you make more than $50,000, you earn more than 73.4% of Americans.

-If you make more than $100,000, you earn more than 92.6% of Americans.

-You are officially in the top 1% of American wage earners if you earn more than $250,000. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/0 ... 21012.html


Oops, I was 7% off on the number of poor, instead of 80% poor, it's actually 73% poor. I am good, my income divide was spot on at $50,000.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby tentative » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:42 am

WendyDarling wrote:
The best numbers we have comes from the 2013 census. In their final report they had the poverty level at 14.5% which was approx. 45 million U.S. citizens. They also noted that the poverty level was improving, but very slowly because of the 2006 crash.

What was the 2013 poverty line in terms of income? :-k Was it a ridiculously low income amount, like less than the minimum wage at 7.25 X 40 hrs. wk. which is a gross of $15,080? Is it $12,331 like it is stated in the 2015 Census?

How many people earn under $30,000?

The massive and growing gulf between rich and poor is one of the direst challenges facing the U.S. economy.

Highlighting this gap, more than half of U.S. wage earners made less than $30,000 last year, according to an analysis released by the Social Security Administration on Tuesday. That’s not far above the $27,010 that marked the federal poverty line for a family of five in 2012.

We’ve created this infographic to help visualize the skewed income distribution in the country.

Where do you stack up?

-If you make more than $10,000, you earn more than 24.2% of Americans, or 37 million people.

-If you make more than $15,000 (roughly the annual salary of a minimum-wage employee working 40 hours per week), you earn more than 32.2% of Americans.

-If you make more than $30,000, you earn more than 53.2% of Americans.

-If you make more than $50,000, you earn more than 73.4% of Americans.

-If you make more than $100,000, you earn more than 92.6% of Americans.

-You are officially in the top 1% of American wage earners if you earn more than $250,000. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/0 ... 21012.html


Oops, I was 7% off on the number of poor, instead of 80% poor, it's actually 73% poor. I am good, my income divide was spot on at $50,000.


Lessee... I think your post said that 80% of America was living in poverty. Now you've switched to "poor". There is a difference in the definition of those words unless you wish to lump them together for a dramatic presentation. Perhaps you choose to not see the difference, but there are a lot of people who would be willing to say they are poor but not impoverished.
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Sorry, arguing with the ignorant is like trying to wrestle with a jellyfish. No matter how many tentacles you cut off there are always more, and there isn't even a brain to stun. - Maia

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Re: Income Disparity

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:18 pm

Name some deciding factors between poor and impoverished for I believe that its a great deal of the same issues which revolve around no money, no food, no rent/mortgage payment, no transportation, no utilities, no communication devices, loads of debt (almost forgot this, but most poor can't pay their debts) no...no...no.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby tentative » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:50 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Name some deciding factors between poor and impoverished for I believe that its a great deal of the same issues which revolve around no money, no food, no rent/mortgage payment, no transportation, no utilities, no communication devices, loads of debt (almost forgot this, but most poor can't pay their debts) no...no...no.


What might be some deciding factors is all over the park. Yes, the lack of money is ALWAYS a problem for everyone except the very wealthy. As I have said before, the national pastime is chasing dollars. I can certainly support any program that helps those living in poverty -ie- those lacking the basic necessities that you have mentioned. But what is poor? There are many people earning a lot more than 50 grand a year that are poor. What shall we call the people who are saddled with the hunky house mortgage, two children in college paid for by mom and dad, the usual burden of the various insurances, etc. They are struggling to cover all these expenses and one paycheck short and they go from poor to poverty in a flash. There are hundreds of thousands of people who made good livings before the crash that are now living a life of poverty. Ask them if they were ever "poor". Even with an income described as wealthy, one can be "poor" in their own eyes. But perhaps this is only a description of extreme...

Most U.S. citizens fall some place in the middle, always struggling to keep their nose above water. Consumerism has to be paid by somebody and most people push right up to, or past the limits of their income. So in a perverted way, one can say that the whole nation is poor, except for the few at the top and that 15% at the bottom. At bottom, we could easily say that too many people have made bad choices in creating a no-win situation for themselves and that would be true almost any place on the planet. But the hard truth is that most of the issues of poor/poverty are systemic. Most of the people you are talking about are victims of their own bad choices coupled with a social system of turbocharged consumerism. Do we save for a rainy day? Don't make me laugh. We choose and are encouraged to spend every last dime, use every bit of credit possible and count on winning the lottery to "fix" our problems. Us hoomans ain't very bright...

I wish I had some sort of magic bullet that would fix everything, but I don't. I participated and was caught up in the same insanity as everyone else. I think that it remains up to the individual to make their own way. It's possible, just not likely. We might be able to help others move out of poverty, but it would take a miracle to escape being poor.
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:37 pm

People who live above their means can claim to be poor? People with a new Mercedes payment, a newer home with a huge mortgage, two kids in expensive colleges...these people who earn over $50,000 in income can claim to be poor? These people do choose to be poor by living too large, but real poor people haven't those luxurious choices.

Why can't you admit that real poor people work full-time for bumpkus as an income?
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Re: Income Disparity

Postby tentative » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:34 pm

WendyDarling wrote:People who live above their means can claim to be poor? People with a new Mercedes payment, a newer home with a huge mortgage, two kids in expensive colleges...these people who earn over $50,000 in income can claim to be poor? These people do choose to be poor by living too large, but real poor people haven't those luxurious choices.

Why can't you admit that real poor people work full-time for bumpkus as an income?


What aren't you reading in my posts? Did I not say that part of the problem is systemic? Did I not say that most of the people can be considered to be poor? I also pointed out that so-called wealthy people can be considered poor through their own choices. What more do I have to say? I am NOT going to buy in to a simplistic raise wages to 15.00/hr scenario. Sure, it would help, but most of my blathering here is about all the other things that make us poor or living in poverty.

Think about it: How many people do you know that wouldn't be poor if the money was there? How much money would it take to not be poor? If everyone in the country made 50,000 plus they would continue to be poor. A better house (higher mortgage), a new car for everyone in the house of driving age, the boat, or motorcycle, or.... Between systemic failure and human nature, poor is, and always will be,with us. There are no simple answers. The causes of poor are many. There is no single scapegoat to blame it on.

The everything would be right if.... That is a load of BS. There are as many solutions as there are problems and so I repeat: It's local, small scale, and done slowly over time. There is no magic bullet.
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