The Brain and its hologram of reality

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The Brain and its hologram of reality

Postby phenomenal_graffiti » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:26 am

For those believing that brains create consciousness: realize the people you know and see around you are all creations of your brain. Your mother, father, siblings, significant others, co-workers etc. are all made up of YOU, that is, they consist of your subjective experience. They're holograms, so to speak, made up of your consciousness streaming from the "movie projector" of your brain.
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Q: What lies beyond the "Matrix" that is consciousness?
A: The conscious and unconscious mind of God.


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Re: The Brain and its hologram of reality

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:34 am

phenomenal_graffiti wrote:For those believing that brains create consciousness: realize the people you know and see around you are all creations of your brain. Your mother, father, siblings, significant others, co-workers etc. are all made up of YOU, that is, they consist of your subjective experience. They're holograms, so to speak, made up of your consciousness streaming from the "movie projector" of your brain.
So, you're trying to convince the holograms inside you that they are just parts of your subjective experience? How come they, that is portions of you, don't know this already?
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Re: The Brain and its hologram of reality

Postby phenomenal_graffiti » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:54 am

The brain creates the holograms that are your experience of other people. That isnt to say they do not exist as things in themselves outside of the simulated reality created by your brain. Your neurons cause the holograms to believe they, your you-composed holographic counterpart as opposed to the external not-you composed person, are not you-composed holograms. But as external not-you composed persons are not produced by your neurons, it is unclear how your brain mimics their behavior.
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The Truman Show, 1998 Paramount Pictures

Q: What lies beyond the "Matrix" that is consciousness?
A: The conscious and unconscious mind of God.


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Re: The Brain and its hologram of reality

Postby phenomenal_graffiti » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:56 am

Of course, as I do not believe brains create consciousness but are reductio ad absurdum instigating a chain of logic leading to the sole existence of consciousness, the positive statements of brains or neurons doing x or y are tongue in cheek.
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The Truman Show, 1998 Paramount Pictures

Q: What lies beyond the "Matrix" that is consciousness?
A: The conscious and unconscious mind of God.


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Re: The Brain and its hologram of reality

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:32 am

phenomenal_graffiti wrote:The brain creates the holograms that are your experience of other people. That isnt to say they do not exist as things in themselves outside of the simulated reality created by your brain. Your neurons cause the holograms to believe they, your you-composed holographic counterpart as opposed to the external not-you composed person, are not you-composed holograms. But as external not-you composed persons are not produced by your neurons, it is unclear how your brain mimics their behavior.
I guess I am still trying to understand why you would bother to post. IOW you have more direct contact with the hologram just mulling with your eyes closed on the couch. This is a mediated - or virtual reality simulation of more mediated - communication, reinforcing the illusion. Why not just relax and merge seemingly separate consciousnesses where they seem most intimate?
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Re: The Brain and its hologram of reality

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:40 am

phenomenal_graffiti wrote:Of course, as I do not believe brains create consciousness but are reductio ad absurdum instigating a chain of logic leading to the sole existence of consciousness, the positive statements of brains or neurons doing x or y are tongue in cheek.
Hm. I get that, but my immediate reaction reading the OP, was that starting with the brain confuses your audience or 'audience' if you prefer. The brain and its hologram. So the reader gets the image of the physical brain, then adds an internal image of the hologram in or 'in' that brain. I mean, the war is lost, not even just a battle, tongue and cheek or not. I know it might be a kind of bridging. To reach out into the model that is out there. And even many scientists who are physicalists think that we only experience a kind of inner theater/hologram. So, approaching the issue this way bridges. But it also muddles it up, I think. Because you are presuming phyiscalism, then trying to work out from its model to something closer to idealism or a Vishnu focused Hinduism.

I mean, if I notice that I am telling you how to broach this it feels a bit rude on my part.

But I think it might be clearer if you actually approached yourself (heh) as yourself, talkign to yourself.

I am the part of you that realizes there is just one consciousness.


For example. And skip all the brains stuff holograms.
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Re: The Brain and its hologram of reality

Postby phenomenal_graffiti » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:46 pm

phenomenal_graffiti wrote:
Of course, as I do not believe brains create consciousness but are reductio ad absurdum instigating a chain of logic leading to the sole existence of consciousness, the positive statements of brains or neurons doing x or y are tongue in cheek.


Hm. I get that, but my immediate reaction reading the OP, was that starting with the brain confuses your audience or 'audience' if you prefer. The brain and its hologram.


It would for those who didn't know I'm an Idealist. But for those who do, the joke should have been apparent. Or not.

So the reader gets the image of the physical brain, then adds an internal image of the hologram in or 'in' that brain. I mean, the war is lost, not even just a battle, tongue and cheek or not.


And that's too bad. A hologram is an image composed of light emitted or originating from a mechanical or natural source that is the source of the light and the form the light takes. Thus a hologram and the mechanism by which a hologram is produced is analogous to consciousness and the mechanism of the brain generating consciousness. if true, the brain generates consciousness in the way a machine generates a hologram...let us say R2D2 emitting an image of Princess Leia to Obi Wan in Star Wars: A New Hope as a good fictional example.

Heck, secular mythology regarding the nature of death built upon the following premises...

1. The brain creates consciousness.

2.Consciousness cannot exist without first being produced and generated from a brain.

3. If the brain ceases to function, consciousness ceases to exist.

....negatively (conceptually) demonstrates consciousness and one's experience of "this" world and other people are a "Princess Leia" hologram, metaphorically speaking (by right of analogous process) that cuts out when "R2D2" (the brain) ceases to produce the "hologram".

The people you experience are created by your brain.

There are the people you experience, and their external world counterparts: people not created by your brain that are external doppelgangers of the people created by your brain. They are not one and the same, and the secular mechanism of death proves this. The people created by your brain wink out of existence when one deceases, while the external people remain because they are neither created nor controlled by the brain. There are two copies of your parents, siblings, co-workers, etc.: (1)There are the mental parents, siblings, co-workers, etc. created by your brain, phantoms made up of first-person subjective experience that disappear or wink out of existence at unconsciousness or death, and (2) there are the external doppelgangers of the mental people your brain creates, that do not wink out of existence when your brain ceases to function as these external parents, siblings, etc. are not mental copies created by your brain.

Thus, regardless of what a person envisions when I use the term 'hologram', this does not change the conceptual fact that if one pays strict attention to the first part of the first sentence in the OP, the people you experience are creations of your brain, and these people are doppelgangers, made up of nothing but your first-persosn subjective experience of people believed to exist in the external world the brain is believed to mimic.
J.Brewer
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The Truman Show, 1998 Paramount Pictures

Q: What lies beyond the "Matrix" that is consciousness?
A: The conscious and unconscious mind of God.


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Re: The Brain and its hologram of reality

Postby Gloominary » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:20 am

Is the brain a creation of the mind?
Or am I a figment of my father's imagination, or of God's?
Or am I matter dreaming it's me?
Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and given enough time, monkeys can write Shakespeare.
Maybe matter can think like a human once every septillion years, all the particle waves happen to align just so.

Perhaps there's no precise, or any border between what's inside our brain or mind and what's outside, between self and other, could be an imaginary line we draw.
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Re: The Brain and its hologram of reality

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:38 pm

phenomenal_graffiti wrote:It would for those who didn't know I'm an Idealist. But for those who do, the joke should have been apparent. Or not.
Idealists can have vestiges of other paradigms in their own views.

And that's too bad. A hologram is an image composed of light emitted or originating from a mechanical or natural source that is the source of the light and the form the light takes. Thus a hologram and the mechanism by which a hologram is produced is analogous to consciousness and the mechanism of the brain generating consciousness. if true, the brain generates consciousness in the way a machine generates a hologram...let us say R2D2 emitting an image of Princess Leia to Obi Wan in Star Wars: A New Hope as a good fictional example.
Though holograms are created outside the devices. Mental Images are generally considered inside. I think I was reacting to the whole inner theater metaphor AND that you are addressing strangers more than that you were using a technological metaphor per se.

Heck, secular mythology regarding the nature of death built upon the following premises...

1. The brain creates consciousness.

2.Consciousness cannot exist without first being produced and generated from a brain.

3. If the brain ceases to function, consciousness ceases to exist.
It could view them as simply the same, and then end together. IOW consciousness as a facet. They could even believe that death is a kind of inevitalbe choice by the organism, ending both facets.
The people you experience are created by your brain.
Me? ARen't you really saying something like 'you are actually a part of me'?

Thus, regardless of what a person envisions when I use the term 'hologram', this does not change the conceptual fact that if one pays strict attention to the first part of the first sentence in the OP, the people you experience are creations of your brain, and these people are doppelgangers, made up of nothing but your first-persosn subjective experience of people believed to exist in the external world the brain is believed to mimic.
Isn't it more like 'you are a portion of me that doesn't realize it'?

IOW I think it is a bit odd to come online and tell other parts of yourself that really 'we' are all one. You could just lie on a couch and more directly interact with the portions of yourself. Now, yes, 'more direct' might seem to have vestiges of physicalism, but such is the nature of language. It may not actually be more direct to just deal with your parts without going online, but if you're anything like me and since we are one in your model you are then it will seem easier. But here you are online telling 'me' that 'you' are really a part of me that realizes it's all one.
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