Pedro's Corner

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:10 pm

Ah, yes, Calvin Chess.

I'm pretty good at that one. Let's see....

2. kxe8

White king takes black king and adopts his children as his own.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:16 pm

I'm bored now. Can we play real chess?
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:18 pm

I promise not to listen to this while we play:

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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby promethean75 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:36 pm

Look man. I'm at work. I caint be hanging out at ilp all day like I used to.

Why don't you go rake the yard or something and I'll holla at you later.

Are you kidding me. I think Juan just fell off the ladder again. I gotta go get him before the home owner sees him sprawled out in her azalea bushes.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:10 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Taxes are evil, man. Btw, the only reason people form Corporations in the first place is to get taxed less, not more.

It's just. A fucking doozie.

Like a Brazilian expat told me recently, "...me too. Leave the money in my pocket."

Well, yes - I am aware of being radical.
The order of rank and privilege now is:

Corporation
State
Citizen

Under my plan thats reversed.
Not saying Ill manage pushing his through but its sensible, nonetheless.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:17 pm

promethean75 wrote:Look man. I'm at work. I caint be hanging out at ilp all day like I used to.

Why don't you go rake the yard or something and I'll holla at you later.

Are you kidding me. I think Juan just fell off the ladder again. I gotta go get him before the home owner sees him sprawled out in her azalea bushes.


If I had a yard, I'd pay someone to rake it for me. Playa.

Fixed Cross wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:Taxes are evil, man. Btw, the only reason people form Corporations in the first place is to get taxed less, not more.

It's just. A fucking doozie.

Like a Brazilian expat told me recently, "...me too. Leave the money in my pocket."

Well, yes - I am aware of being radical.
The order of rank and privilege now is:

Corporation
State
Citizen

Under my plan thats reversed.
Not saying Ill manage pushing his through but its sensible, nonetheless.


Well, yes. On the surface it does look sensible. I'm not for it, as you know, but far be it from me to hate on sensible.

And yet, how would that look like? Who gets taxed what why when? Compared to, say, Singapore? Where does the money go?

But those are all window dressing. Even if you have a profound understanding of the intringuli, the only real question, the one big political question we as a planet, or those uf us not yelling at the sky and calling for people to be blown up, are asking is: who will get it done? Who's got the reins?

I've concluded that good solutions aren't that hard. The real puzzle is, who calls the shots?
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:23 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:I on purpose did not mention Kanye, because he has a hard time. Kim far less so.

That's the point, though, with Hezbollah. Their inheritance from Pablo is purely concrete power structures. No theory involved. In theoretical terms, it is awkwardly true that they are kind of Roman spawn. All that matters about islam is that the first temple is the Cathedral of Constantinople. Post-Octavian lawyers. Octavian was became inevitable christianity, because of the magnitude of a thing that was to spawn a head. Fascists also wanted to cohere it. It's... murkier territory.

Not true man they're scholarly scholars to the utmost. At least where they spawned. The most scholarly sect of the religion. I talked to them in one of their libraries too. It all came about from some theoretical dispute about "temporary marriage" on which I was editing a film for a Syrian journalist.
They were hyper theoretical about most anything and both very proud and insecure. As scholars are.
Octavian inevitably becoming Christianity, that makes more sense to me.

Hey, slaves, you know. People hate, but it wasn't that simple.

The point, though, is that democracy is not a bout any given legal framework. Taxes this or this that. It by definition works from a given. The citizen must already exist, and the people of whom he is a part, before he can rule.

To put it more bluntly, your personal opinion of taxes is moot. Now, had you a billion's worth of assets and a birth certificate that said Made in USA, then you would have a different opinion, and THAT opinion would matter, in an Athenian democracy, such as President Trump is spearheading. Actually, they don't even need to have an opinion. They may change it, or hire a guy. Do you see what I mean?

Of course.
If I thought otherwise Id be a lawyer. Or a scholar, but no Athenian.

If you had the Made in USA minus the billion, then you could vote for a citizen etc.

Maybe you can be a guy one of them possibly hires.

Ideally they'd just steal my ideas.
I think ill write a short treatise or whatever on it at one point and be done with it.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:26 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Also, defining power as servitude is a large part of what got us here. Think you that Trump thinks of himself as a servant? Nay.

Sooner saviour than servant. But extending us all a yuge service.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:36 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Making America Great is his beat. Or, for Pablo, Making The Barrio Great.

That's... different, than serving. And the motivations, too, are different from the, if you don't mind me saying, somewhat Roman motivations I make out in your propositions, such as the state. The state, aka the Res Publica. The lawyer trap.

Was Rome not great?

The Roman Res Publica was a rather chaotic affair.

The difference between Rome and Greece before Socrates was that the severity of Greece was in its Gods, and in Rome it was in the polity. Not entirely sure how to identify America's severity. You have to have some form of it.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:50 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:
promethean75 wrote:You ain't been back five minutes and you're already talking about Kim Kardashian and Jay z. Jesus Christ dude. Is this something that happens when you a Jakob the fixed barbarian get together, or do you behave like this on your own?


I uh... It's mostly with Jakob.

Hahahaha
Id be worried otherwise.

Truth must sometimes wear a ridiculous mask.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:54 pm

Hoping to add some real thing -
What is Americas severity?
Military per se is too flamboyant.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:57 pm

Rome was pretty great, no doubt. The question is, is Rome feasible?

Making America Great. Now, servitude, or being saved... First of all, it establishes a distance, between he who serves or saves and those that are served or, ahum, saved. That is the genious of citizenry. There is no distance between President Trump and his people. he is serving no one. He is just making his darndest tomake sure the polity runs well with the obvious aim of making it Great or keeping it Great, it's weird to put it into grammar. He's a star player, not the towel boy. Sure, I can agree he "saved us" in the same sense a teammate might remark how Jordan "saved us" that one time we were 40 points down or something with tears in his eyes. Jordan might be a bad example because he was reportedly a dick. A yuge service, no doubt. But from there to the "public service..."

Public, public, the public. That is eminently Roman. There was no public in Athens. Only citizens and slaves. There were others, foreigners and people who weren't slaves or foreigners but didn't quite qualify as citizens. Now, before we go saying slavery is constitutive, let us not forget that Rome had vastly more even in proportion. Or maybe not in proportion, you may have got me with that one. And eventually Rome did without the slaves.

Point here being, Laweyrs make Rome. Or Rome require them. And, again, I'm not hating. I think it was pretty goddamned awesome.

America's severity? Winning. Personal glory.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:00 pm

Whereas Greeks offered glory to the Gods and Romans to the Public, Americans (it'sacontinentfuckgoddamnit) offer their glory to this nigga right here.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:10 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Well, yes. On the surface it does look sensible. I'm not for it, as you know, but far be it from me to hate on sensible.

And yet, how would that look like? Who gets taxed what why when? Compared to, say, Singapore? Where does the money go?

Erm, it wouldn't go over smoothly, necessarily.
Yeah ill admit its not a strictly national concern.
You know what happens. But as you say -

But those are all window dressing. Even if you have a profound understanding of the intringuli, the only real question, the one big political question we as a planet, or those uf us not yelling at the sky and calling for people to be blown up, are asking is: who will get it done? Who's got the reins?

I've concluded that good solutions aren't that hard. The real puzzle is, who calls the shots?

Answering in detail is above my pay grade.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:20 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote: He's a star player, not the towel boy.

Thats exactly what he is, yes.

Sure, I can agree he "saved us" in the same sense a teammate might remark how Jordan "saved us" that one time we were 40 points down or something with tears in his eyes. Jordan might be a bad example because he was reportedly a dick. A yuge service, no doubt. But from there to the "public service..."

No I agree, nothing selfless about it. He wants to, win.

Public, public, the public. That is eminently Roman. There was no public in Athens. Only citizens and slaves. There were others, foreigners and people who weren't slaves or foreigners but didn't quite qualify as citizens. Now, before we go saying slavery is constitutive, let us not forget that Rome had vastly more even in proportion. Or maybe not in proportion, you may have got me with that one. And eventually Rome did without the slaves.

Thats the thing - the last thing the Roman public was, is docile.
A fucking mob of raging berserkers, essentially, who could be disciplined only by being sent out to conquer some rich province. Within the city limits, public servants were often gang-leaders more than lawyers. The successful ones anyway.
Well, lawyers until they ran out of patience.

Point here being, Laweyrs make Rome. Or Rome require them. And, again, I'm not hating. I think it was pretty goddamned awesome.

America's severity? Winning. Personal glory.

I wanted to say no but yes.
The frontier.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:29 pm

Cicero. Always at least the semblance of legality. Like I said, this was less about how cool lawyers were and more about containing them.

The way you describe the Roman public pleases me, because that is exactly how it was.

But, by virtue of that very thing, they didn't blink at choosing Cesar over the lawyers.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:30 pm

Athens and no legality outside of the procedures of the forum, and even those... What they had was the deliberations of the forum. They didn't check the books, they just decided.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:01 pm

I want to make a distinction too between a lawyer and a scholar politician: the scholar has knowledge on stuff and applies it. The position and the knowledge are one. The lawyer has a body of knowledge separate from the issue, and seeks to fit the issue into the body of knowledge.

And so, Nixon knew this and this and do that. He was working in and on his subject matter. With the lawyer, the body of knowledge is separate. The lawyer takes recourse to his knowledge. The scholar departs from the knowledge, and is constantly updating it. Like Kissinger learning from the Chinese and the Arabs about statecraft, and yet having 0 issues with reconciliation.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:26 am

I just want to go ahead and explicitly admit here that the what comes from after Octavian is not laweyrs in any clear or obvious way. Or even fully defensible or true way. It is... to understand the collision that was Octavian, the assassination of Cesar and the... It's a little like understanding the Big Bang in its full mythological setting. Just a clash that created something so weird, so weirdly created a weird, that we can only call it the entire world.

Christianity... I guess it is fitting that it should be such a humble figure. But then, of course, islam too. It is anything but clear, I just want to admit that. But they are lawyers. Of what, representing who, payed for by who, that's all... That's where... I have to admit, it is murksh kadurksh at the very absolute bestest. And yet. Laweyrs son. If Christianity strickes awe, it is because its genesis was is awe stricking. Not to get like biblical about it. AND THEN, THERE WAS. No. These were people here. Just... um.... Dang. I on purpose wanted not to get into it. For the knights of The Zodiac fans out there, it is like the paradox of Pegasus unstoppable punch and the Dragon's unbreakable sheild. They work it out by they just both break, but-um. when it happens in the ultimate political center of the Planet, suddenly loose ends demand prescence.

Athens, helpfully, is cleaner. It was not about specific persons, as these were the exception in Rome and thus special, but about the fact of specific personality, which was the commonstance.

What is remembered about the one Athenian we remember as a specific person is that he was a representative of a bunch of specific persons as a group of specific persons. Anyway, it's cleaner. Citizenship vs Res Publica.

But that's a misleading vs, as they both rock. It is the best of these vs the Haters. Also, worth noting, neither of these is an end onto themselves. As opposed to commies, which posit themselves, sickly, as their own end.

Nay. Many worlds emerge from either of these, Rome or Athens. My postulations are about strategic possibility and which one technically Makes Greater than the other. Sai.

Just wanted to say that. I am not blind to the intricacies and convoluted depthsiniesitiestations.

*sigh*

It is the middle of the beginning of the great war, we have no time for convolutednesses. We need yeses, nos, and go forths. The lawyers are in full swing, the energies from our side are invested. Time to get a little Spartan, at the risk of making the whole scheme sillified.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:42 am

"My son, where you have seen the conexion between 21 Savage and President Trump, then you shall have acheived understanding.""And Korea.""And Rome.""My son, shut the fuck up about it, it's complicated.""Athens, my son. seek Athens. She slowly reemerges and calls to you."
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby promethean75 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:55 pm

i never thought i'd see '21 savage' and 'athens' mentioned in the same paragraph. 'trump' and '21 savage', yes, but never that.

this is how you know some real shit is going down in the minds of western people. a hundred years ago such a mention would be so unheard of it might even have been illegal.

don't get me wrong. athens had its share of problems... but never something so bad as to warrant its mention beside... *cough*... '21 savage'.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby promethean75 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:11 pm

almost like a bad version of hunger-games or some shit.

edit: move to borg thread.
Last edited by promethean75 on Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby promethean75 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:12 pm

shit i'm in the wrong thread. how the fuck did that happen. carleas, be a good sport and put that last one over in the borg thread, yes?
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:40 pm

I know. It is not immediately accessible to most minds.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:41 pm

Capitalism with XX values.

The future?
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