the afterlife

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the afterlife

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:21 pm

Kevin Spacey, on TV plays a man with a 200 IQ. He says that death is "what we make of it" and that when we die, we go to whatever place and fantasy that we believe we will go.

Is there any truth to this, or is it the simple ravings of a madman with an overconfidence with his IQ. We should not judge a statement based on IQ alone, but who is saying it and why.

Also, this ignores the moral, ethical implications of an innocent person dying in a fire, and going to hell simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Re: the afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:06 pm

I saw that film quite a while ago and was very impressed with it even though Spacey was not human and the premise not that realistic
Why you so obsessed with reincarnation Trixie why cannot you simply wait like me for death to take you to the deep sleep of eternity
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Re: the afterlife

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:32 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:I saw that film quite a while ago and was very impressed with it even though Spacey was not human and the premise not that realistic
Why you so obsessed with reincarnation Trixie why cannot you simply wait like me for death to take you to the deep sleep of eternity


wasnt talking about kpax.

why i am obsessed with reincarnation is because, if you are wrong and there isnt eternal nothing like u belief, i may have to come back to some shitty world again, which i want to learn how to end up on a better planet or timeline and not this one.
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Re: the afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:51 am

Ultimate Philosophy wrote:
why I am obsessed with reincarnation is because if you are wrong and there isnt eternal nothing like you believe I may have
to come back to some shitty world again which I want to learn how to end up on a better planet or timeline and not this one

Ending up on a better planet [ better in what way ] would not necessarily guarantee you a happier life than the one you have now. However less you remember
your past life you would not know. No one remembers having actually lived before which is why I do not think reincarnation is real [ though some claim to have
done so but this is not the same thing ] There is no evidence of anyone surviving permanent brain death which is why I think we all only live one life and is why
I think death follows life and is for ever. Whereas life is just temporary. You may see no point to that but there is no actual point to the Universe. It just exists
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Re: the afterlife

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Kevin Spacey, on TV plays a man with a 200 IQ. He says that death is "what we make of it" and that when we die, we go to whatever place and fantasy that we believe we will go.

Is there any truth to this, or is it the simple ravings of a madman with an overconfidence with his IQ. We should not judge a statement based on IQ alone, but who is saying it and why.

Also, this ignores the moral, ethical implications of an innocent person dying in a fire, and going to hell simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.


If there actually is ~~ IF ~~ somehow some form of self-aware consciousness after death ~~~ without calling it heaven hell purgatory or limbo, I can imagine that what we might experience is the kind of reality which we experienced during our lives.

Doesn't how we choose to think and to feel and to live both positively and negatively mold our reality in the Here and Now.
Reality isn't just based on how it is (though this is true) but how we perceive it and how it controls and influences our lives.

I've always thought that if there is such a thing I would love to sit under a tree with a great book or to constantly look up at the stars or sit in front of the ocean watching the seagulls fly and listening to their haunting cries. That would be heaven for me. lol

If we can see it, imagine it, can we actually create it later?
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: the afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:47 pm

sit in front of the ocean watching the seagulls fly and listening to their haunting cries.

Seagulls...heaven? They are the swooping vultures of the seashore. If they even think you have food, they will harass you to no end and intermittently poop on you. :evilfun: :lol:
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Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: the afterlife

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:50 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
sit in front of the ocean watching the seagulls fly and listening to their haunting cries.

Seagulls...heaven? They are the swooping vultures of the seashore. If they even think you have food, they will harass you to no end and intermittently poop on you. :evilfun: :lol:


How dare you insult my beautiful gulls? :evilfun:

Have you ever gone to a fast-food restaurant or any restaurant and seen the way the human vultures down their food? No finesse about it at all. It is almost as though they have not eaten for a week.

But don't you think that they are beautiful to behold as they glide and swoop down and then back up? And their haunting cry (to me) is like music to my ears.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: the afterlife

Postby Meno_ » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:26 pm

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Re: the afterlife

Postby Meno_ » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:00 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Kevin Spacey, on TV plays a man with a 200 IQ. He says that death is "what we make of it" and that when we die, we go to whatever place and fantasy that we believe we will go.

Is there any truth to this, or is it the simple ravings of a madman with an overconfidence with his IQ. We should not judge a statement based on IQ alone, but who is saying it and why.

Also, this ignores the moral, ethical implications of an innocent person dying in a fire, and going to hell simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.



Another idea is that one has to deserve a place in a next life.
There appears a disjunction between these views, can they be sown up by levels of deserving, whereby more choices open up, to more desired ones?
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Re: the afterlife

Postby mannequin01 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:06 am

There is a difference between what you believe and how you die, so how you die doesn't necessarily influence your belief regarding that fire/hell example.

Anyways, interestingly enough, even in the abrahamic religions the afterlife isnt just black/white. There are many levels of paradise and hell, in some cases hell is described as icey cold misty and freezing where people are just walking endlessly. There's examples where if somebody kills themselves such as stabbing themselves then they will relive the event over and over stabbing themselves continuously. Hell has never just been a place where you just burn, that might be, but not just that only. After reading these books for years, it wouldnt surprise me if resurrection, reincarnation, rebirth all have some truth to it.. i was never just convinced of this idea of "nothingness"

Also the concept of God, i think is very misunderstood. As you read people refer to it as a man in the sky, or with a white beard or sky daddy or something, but delving into the books, it's more closer to an energy presence, a spirit that you are never truly disconnected from. The judgement is based upon the condition you die in, the condition is based upon the choices you have made in life.

If you live in a place anyway near the place i live in, then in this hellhole you can literally see those who have chosen the good or the bad life, who has chosen to stay away from corruption, stealing, killing etc it's almost like a light shines over them and intensifies if they continue that path, for those who choose the negative path, you can see a darkness over them, it's in their eyes, their thoughts and it also increases over time if they continue.. it is a choice that people have, and i think this is a defining factor to what happens to people after they die.

To ignore all of this despite how blatant it is, is a denial i think most humans suffer from.
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Re: the afterlife

Postby gib » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:15 am

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Kevin Spacey, on TV plays a man with a 200 IQ. He says that death is "what we make of it" <-- Interesting twist on life is what we make of it. and that when we die, we go to whatever place and fantasy that we believe we will go.

Is there any truth to this, or is it the simple ravings of a madman with an overconfidence with his IQ. We should not judge a statement based on IQ alone, but who is saying it and why.

I agree. Intelligence can be used to learn the tricks of deception and manipulation as much as it can wisdome and insight.

Also, this ignores the moral, ethical implications of an innocent person dying in a fire, and going to hell simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.


What does an innocent person dying in fire have to do with Spacey's statement about the afterlife.

surreptitious57 wrote:There is no evidence of anyone surviving permanent brain death...


Gee, I wonder why.

Arcturus Descending wrote:If we can see it, imagine it, can we actually create it later?


That seems to be what mankind if proving.

WendyDarling wrote:Seagulls...heaven? They are the swooping vultures of the seashore. If they even think you have food, they will harass you to no end and intermittently poop on you. :evilfun: :lol:


Had a bad experience with Seagulls, Wendy? :lol: ;)

Arcturus Descending wrote:Have you ever gone to a fast-food restaurant or any restaurant and seen the way the human vultures down their food? No finesse about it at all. It is almost as though they have not eaten for a week.


Gotta say Arc, those human vultures show a lot more finesse than a seagull who swoops down to the dirty ground to catch a greasy french fry.

Arcturus Descending wrote:But don't you think that they are beautiful to behold as they glide and swoop down and then back up? And their haunting cry (to me) is like music to my ears.


Ah yes, there is that. ;)

Meno_ wrote:Another idea is that one has to deserve a place in a next life.
There appears a disjunction between these views, can they be sown up by levels of deserving, whereby more choices open up, to more desired ones?


Yes, just as Spacey's character is saying death is what we make it, then too, I would think, whether or not we deserve it is what we make of it.

mannequin01 wrote:Anyways, interestingly enough, even in the abrahamic religions the afterlife isnt just black/white. There are many levels of paradise and hell, in some cases hell is described as icey cold misty and freezing where people are just walking endlessly. There's examples where if somebody kills themselves such as stabbing themselves then they will relive the event over and over stabbing themselves continuously. Hell has never just been a place where you just burn, that might be, but not just that only. After reading these books for years, it wouldnt surprise me if resurrection, reincarnation, rebirth all have some truth to it.. i was never just convinced of this idea of "nothingness"


My theory of consciousness guarantees that it's not "nothingness".

mannequin01 wrote:Also the concept of God, i think is very misunderstood. As you read people refer to it as a man in the sky, or with a white beard or sky daddy or something, but delving into the books, it's more closer to an energy presence, a spirit that you are never truly disconnected from.


This eventually became the concept of "God" ever since the Platonic idea of the Forms (or Pythagora's idea of a universe of pure numbers), but before that the "gods" were thought to have physical embodiments, whether that be a man with a birds head or a sphinx or a pan character with two little horns.

mannequin01 wrote:If you live in a place anyway near the place i live in, then in this hellhole you can literally see those who have chosen the good or the bad life, who has chosen to stay away from corruption, stealing, killing etc it's almost like a light shines over them and intensifies if they continue that path, for those who choose the negative path, you can see a darkness over them, it's in their eyes, their thoughts and it also increases over time if they continue.. it is a choice that people have, and i think this is a defining factor to what happens to people after they die.


It's amazing the way the Devil convinces us to hide ourselves behind those eyes--who can you talk to when no one can be trusted?
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It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
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Re: the afterlife

Postby mannequin01 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:11 pm

This eventually became the concept of "God" ever since the Platonic idea of the Forms (or Pythagora's idea of a universe of pure numbers), but before that the "gods" were thought to have physical embodiments, whether that be a man with a birds head or a sphinx or a pan character with two little horns.


From the Abrahamic theology there wasn't any "before that". If it is true then all would start with one god, then creation of Adam..etc.. Pagan worship of idols is seen as deviation away from the correct path of worship. People often make the mistake of considering Jesus, or Muhammad etc a founder, but God would be the founder if you are believing it is true, they didn't bring anything new.. the worship of one God has been around for quite sometime.

Even in the early Sumerian culture on stone tablets it talks about "Gods", "kings" coming from the sky, but it also mentions a creator of all..who knows if that is a random cosmic event of mere energy or an intelligent presence.

Belief is the factor here. If you don't believe it to be true, then everything else besides that will take place whether it be multiple gods, no god, or worship of trees, animals, etc
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Re: the afterlife

Postby gib » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:41 am

mannequin01 wrote:From the Abrahamic theology there wasn't any "before that". If it is true then all would start with one god, then creation of Adam..etc.. Pagan worship of idols is seen as deviation away from the correct path of worship. People often make the mistake of considering Jesus, or Muhammad etc a founder, but God would be the founder if you are believing it is true, they didn't bring anything new.. the worship of one God has been around for quite sometime.


True, but why are we looking at this from the point of view of Abrahamic theology? I was speaking historically.

mannequin01 wrote:Even in the early Sumerian culture on stone tablets it talks about "Gods", "kings" coming from the sky, but it also mentions a creator of all..who knows if that is a random cosmic event of mere energy or an intelligent presence.


I would think that unless it's specifically stated somewhere that the creator god is pure energy or some immaterial spirit, most people would imagine him as something like an old white-bearded man in the sky. People didn't have much of an imagination back then. It required genius thinkers to come up with concepts like a transcendent immaterial god before the rest of us could easily grasp it.
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It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
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Re: the afterlife

Postby Stephen C Pedersen » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:59 pm

What in the hell is this tv show that isn't mentioned with Spacey?(!) I just don't even know where to begin with these topics because we know nothing for certain in the unknown or beyond. It would be prudent to say nothing considering what we know of neuroscience. But, beyond that we get into parascience and occult forces. I know my own experiences with consciousness has been scary. Going off and on meds I've seen parts of my brain turn off and then turn back on basically. Very mechanistic and material. Even subjective aspects like qualia are controlled by the matter in the medicine. It's hard to be optimistic about an afterlife when things seem so material. Maybe there's a dimension to all of this we can't understand though. Anymore than that and what can we say?
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