What Of Your Soul?

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What Of Your Soul?

Postby encode_decode » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:27 pm

    I am still learning about this stuff . . .

    I did not really know where to put this post - I hope the Sandbox is OK.

    For a long time I thought that the spirit and soul were the same thing . . . A few years ago I was told that they were not . . .
    The explanation I received a few years ago went something like this . . . the body is the soul and the spirit is its driving force . . .

    Today I think I received a better description - so here I place my initial interpretation for criticism.

    The way I understand it we have a physical body which I learnt many years ago could be bought from a chemical supply shop for very cheap - I think it was less than one hundred dollars. The physical body needs to be animated somehow - a problem that I am led to believe science is still struggling with.

    Now I am guessing that the soul has something to do with this physical body being animated . . .
    . . . but what I have interpreted is that the soul is the seat of the consciousness.

    Is this correct? The soul is the seat of the consciousness.

    I am your student.

    8-[
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    Re: What Of Your Soul?

    Postby WendyDarling » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:36 pm

    Yes, it is the seat of consciousness and houses your long term memories.
    I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

    I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

    Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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    Re: What Of Your Soul?

    Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:15 pm

      WendyDarling

      I believe in GOD and I am not sure whether you do or not and I am certain James' concept of GOD is different to my own.

      WendyDarling wrote:We, our conscious spark of life, are found in the entity of our soul, and our meat sacks move while our soul entity wears the flesh housing (that is not conscious, merely flesh clothing allowing different forms of sensory input and communication exchanges). Two bodies, one mind working both. Am I being clear enough?

      You are definitely being clear enough - I understand exactly what you mean. You and I differ a little on the subject of the soul. I do agree with the idea of the soul as the seat of the consciousness. I also differ a little with James on the topic of soul but I did find some meaning in his ideas of the spirit and the soul. I also find a great deal of meaning in your ideas of the spirit and the soul.

      James S Saint wrote:The scriptural word "spirit" merely refers to "behavior". Anywhere a particular behavior arises, the same "spirit" appears (just an issue of definition of the words). The eternal portion of a person is in two forms, "soul" and "spirit". The soul is merely the conceptual definition of the person, their conceptual essence (e.g. "a good person who likes fishing and chasing hot women").

      I am pleased that the three of us agree that the soul and spirit are two different things. I also notice that we all like this essence thingy too - I will be returning to that soon too in the what of you essence? thread.

      James S Saint wrote:All concepts are always eternal, thus all souls are eternal. A perfect circle is always what a perfect circle is and any particular kind of person is always that particular kind of person. A person can change which kind they are until the person's body dies. Then they are forevermore whatever they last were.

      The three of us agree with the concept of eternal.

      James S Saint wrote:Spirits are a little different in that a spirit, a behavior, can come and go. A spirit is physical and literally moves about (and yes some form of body is required). That is where you get those ghost stories. A "ghost" is a "ghe-host", a "spirit host", or "the behavior that occupies the body" and in computers would be their "programming". These days, you are more likely to hear of it as "an attitude". Behaviors and attitudes pop up all over and wheresoever one of them reflects a familiar tone, therein lies a familiar spirit, perhaps of one once loved (or hated). The universe can never be totally void of any spirit that has ever been, nor of any that will ever be, thus in a mathematically provable sense, everyone's spirit shall always be eternal. The question is within what environment will they struggle (aka "Heavenly or Hellish")?

      I am so glad that something is mathematically provable. Here we are speaking of eternal again and I also detect some essence tucked away in there too.

      So much for me to think and pray about.

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      The emotion is "in the world," not in the mind, the psyche, or the soul. (Robert C. Solomon - 1998)
      - Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion. (2017) -
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      Re: What Of Your Soul?

      Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:31 pm

        My idea from another thread is this:

        If we have reason to believe that we are here now . . .

        . . . then why do we not have reason to believe that we have been here before ? . .

        . . . and why do we have no reason to believe that we will be here again?

        Given the number of possible outcomes using the same stuff contained in our universe now - then it is possible that all of the stars and planets and other bodies could just as easily have taken a different configuration - which means that each time of return could be different also.

        I have my reservations on a cyclical time however - eternal return is not necessarily dependent on time either - this may be basing the idea around people but a leap in imagination could make a universe reconfigure without people.

        So I am saying eternal reconfiguration - which also allows room for eternal rebirth et cetera.

        Just an idea!

        :-k
        The emotion is "in the world," not in the mind, the psyche, or the soul. (Robert C. Solomon - 1998)
        - Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion. (2017) -
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        Re: What Of Your Soul?

        Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:34 pm

          To which James responded with . . .

          James S Saint wrote:There is an infinity of you present at all times. Exact duplicates of you down below the subatomic level exist throughout the universe. Each one diverges from being identical to you as time passes. But also as time passes, another exact duplicate forms from something that wasn't quite exact yet. You will always be present in the universe, as will I and every other creature ever born. There is no escape from that conclusion once you know the mathematics of it (which isn't all that hard).

          So yes, you are "reborn". And even more, you are being reborn every instant into different locations throughout the universe. Your "soul" and also, separately, your "spirit", is truly eternal and ever present. And then of course, you are never exactly identical to how you were, thus you are constantly being "reborn" into a new "configuration", but only through a gradual, cohesive type of process. There are no instantaneous, discontinuitous, or uncaused events. All physical reality flows.

          Thank you James, that sums it up really well what I was thinking. I understand the mathematics is not that hard - I have it internalized at present and I intend on externalizing it. The splitting off of us into exact duplicates is a bit more difficult for me to imagine but I imagine the externalization of the mathematics can shed light on that. Hopefully I am fully interpreting you correctly.
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          - Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion. (2017) -
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          Re: What Of Your Soul?

          Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:07 pm

          encode_decode

          I am still learning about this stuff . . .


          Aren't we all?! and baffled with it at the same time ~~ all a part of learning.


          I did not really know where to put this post - I hope the Sandbox is OK.


          I think that the sandbox is okay. I think that it could have also gone into religion but maybe from my point of view philosophy even more so.

          For a long time I thought that the spirit and soul were the same thing . . . A few years ago I was told that they were not . . .


          May I ask who told you differently? But you needn't respond.

          The explanation I received a few years ago went something like this . . . the body is the soul and the spirit is its driving force . . .


          I cannot agree with this but who knows. The soul to me is part of the psyche or is the psyche but its driving force may be in part the spirit along with other influences which incite and animate the spirit which also animate the body.(emotions, moods) But I do not mean at the moment of conception. It's all part of the mind/body relationship.


          Today I think I received a better description - so here I place my initial interpretation for criticism.

          The way I understand it we have a physical body which I learnt many years ago could be bought from a chemical supply shop for very cheap - I think it was less than one hundred dollars. The physical body needs to be animated somehow - a problem that I am led to believe science is still struggling with.


          I thought that it was even less than that. But remember one thing: Science has not as yet found a way to house the brain and in turn the mind without the body as the receptacle. So the body is important. :evilfun:
          The way in which you just described the physical body needing to be animated reminded me of Mary Shelly's Frankenstein.

          Now I am guessing that the soul has something to do with this physical body being animated . . .
          . . . but what I have interpreted is that the soul is the seat of the consciousness.


          This is ALSO the christian or catholic view. At the moment of conception, the soul enters the body, for them.


          Is this correct? The soul is the seat of the consciousness.


          Hmm...this does make you want to bang your head against the wall, doesn't it ~~ at least figuratively speaking it does.
          Consciousness as awareness, self-awareness, "what is it like to be me" et cetera?
          I prefer the word psyche to soul because many believe that the soul lives on but we can't know this.

          Psyche
          [sahy-kee]
          Spell Syllables
          noun

          1.
          Classical Mythology. a personification of the soul, which in the form of a beautiful girl was loved by Eros.
          2.
          (lowercase) the human soul, spirit, or mind.
          3.
          (lowercase) [color=#400080][b]Psychology, Psychoanalysis. the mental or psychological structure of a person, especially as a motive force.

          4.
          Neoplatonism. the second emanation of the One, regarded as a universal consciousness and as the animating principle of the world.


          I suppose one can say that the soul or psyche is the seat of consciousness.
          I don't want to muddy the waters here but perhaps the psyche and human consciousness sit side by side. They are influenced by one another, both positively and negatively.

          ...."The present work suggests that, rather than hoping for a putative unique marker – the neural correlate of consciousness – a more mature view of conscious processing should consider that it relates to a brain-scale distributed pattern of coherent brain activation," explained neuroscientist Lionel Naccache, one of the authors of the paper"...
          https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 201459.htm


          28 Days: The baby’s muscles are developing. Her arm and leg buds are visible, and her first neocortical cells appear. The neocortex is the seat of complex thinking and reasoning, and it is present in no other mammal.

          This is a little girl.

          https://www.hli.org/resources/is-a-baby ... gK_HvD_BwE


          I am your student.


          There we go. As you can see, you may be the teacher here and me the student. :evilfun:
          SAPERE AUDE!


          If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


          What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

          Thomas Nagel


          I learn as I write!
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          Re: What Of Your Soul?

          Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:31 pm

            Arcturus Descending

            Arcturus Descending wrote:Aren't we all? and baffled with it at the same time ~~ all a part of learning.

            I am not sure if all of us are - there are a number of things that baffle me - yes all a part of learning.

            Arcturus Descending wrote:I think that the sandbox is okay. I think that it could have also gone into religion but maybe from my point of view philosophy even more so.

            I think the Sandbox is the best place - Religion is too aggressive for me and I am not here to preach to anyone. Why do you say philosophy even more?

            Arcturus Descending wrote:May I ask who told you differently? But you needn't respond.

            Some Christian friends - lets just leave it at that shall we?

            Arcturus Descending wrote:I cannot agree with this but who knows. The soul to me is part of the psyche or is the psyche but its driving force may be in part the spirit along with other influences which incite and animate the spirit. which also animate the body. But I do not mean at the moment of conception. It's all part of the mind/body relationship.

            I cannot not agree on it either. But that is the beauty of freedom of speech I guess.

            Arcturus Descending wrote:I thought that it was even less than that. But remember one thing: Science has not as yet found a way to house the brain and in turn the mind without the body as the receptacle. So the body is important. :evilfun:
            The way in which you just described the physical body needing to be animated reminded me of Mary Shelly's Frankenstein.

            Cooooooooooool!

            :D

            Frankenstein!

            Arcturus Descending wrote:This is ALSO the christian or catholic view. At the moment of conception, the soul enters the body, for them.

            I like the seat of the consciousness. Institutionalized religion can believe what it wants as far as I am concerned. I am no part of this world.

            Arcturus Descending wrote:Hmm...this does make you want to bang your head against the wall, doesn't it ~~ at least figuratively speaking it does.
            Consciousness as awareness, self-awareness, "what is it like to be me" et cetera?
            I prefer the word psyche to soul because many believe that the soul lives on but we can't know this.

            Let me tell you a little secret - I directed the question at one person in particular - because that person had the idea I liked the best. Until I received that idea I was banging my head against a brick wall - sometimes I wanted to defenestrate myself.

            :lol:

            I would never do either of those things. One of my passions is the consciousness.

            Arcturus Descending wrote:I suppose one can say that the soul or psyche is the seat of consciousness. I don't want to muddy the waters here but perhaps the psyche and human consciousness sit side by side. They are influenced by one another, both positively and negatively.

            I do say it is the seat of consciousness. Don't worry about the waters - you are free to say whatever you want, I think. My waters will remain clear.

            Arcturus Descending wrote:There we go. As you can see, you may be the teacher here and me the student. :evilfun:

            I don't think so - no one listens to me.

            :evilfun:
            The emotion is "in the world," not in the mind, the psyche, or the soul. (Robert C. Solomon - 1998)
            - Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion. (2017) -
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            Re: What Of Your Soul?

            Postby encode_decode » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:34 pm

              Arcturus Descending

              Arcturus Descending wrote:...."The present work suggests that, rather than hoping for a putative unique marker – the neural correlate of consciousness – a more mature view of conscious processing should consider that it relates to a brain-scale distributed pattern of coherent brain activation," explained neuroscientist Lionel Naccache, one of the authors of the paper"...
              https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 201459.htm


              28 Days: The baby’s muscles are developing. Her arm and leg buds are visible, and her first neocortical cells appear. The neocortex is the seat of complex thinking and reasoning, and it is present in no other mammal.

              That is pretty interesting - I have good reason to believe differently.

              :D
              The emotion is "in the world," not in the mind, the psyche, or the soul. (Robert C. Solomon - 1998)
              - Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion. (2017) -
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              Re: What Of Your Soul?

              Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:21 pm

              encode_decode


              Arcturus Descending ~~
              Aren't we all? and baffled with it at the same time ~~ all a part of learning.

              I am not sure if all of us are - there are a number of things that baffle me - yes all a part of learning.


              Perhaps those who are not so baffled are those who do not take the time to question their beliefs.
              Of course, I do realize that those who have clear knowledge ~~ facts ~~ are not so baffled insofar as those things go.


              I think the Sandbox is the best place - Religion is too aggressive for me and I am not here to preach to anyone. Why do you say philosophy even more?


              The Sandbox is cool if we can keep in mind what a sandbox is for. But even children in sandboxes argue ~ "Hey, that sand is mine. That's my mud pie. Leave it alone." And then comes the slinging of the mud and sand.

              I agree with you that religion can be too aggressive. Why do YOU think that is so? I have my own reasons.
              I think that for me Philosophy can be the best place for a discussion of the soul because anything which we say about it cannot be absolute or written in stone...just like the God concept cannot be.
              Just for the record, I do not have to believe in God, at least certainly not the God of most, in order to have a discussion about God. God may be real to people but God is also a concept!

              If a discussion starts out on the soul and is based on religious belief, already it becomes biased albeit it is still a discussion about the soul.
              Philosophy is about seeking out the truth of things and wisdom.
              That can be about the road less travelled, not the one which has not usually been traveled within the mind - beliefs.


              Arcturus Descending:
              May I ask who told you differently? But you needn't respond.

              Some Christian friends - lets just leave it at that shall we?

              With Pleasure.

              Arcturus Descending
              I cannot agree with this but who knows. The soul to me is part of the psyche or is the psyche but its driving force may be in part the spirit along with other influences which incite and animate the spirit. which also animate the body. But I do not mean at the moment of conception. It's all part of the mind/body relationship.

              I cannot not agree on it either. But that is the beauty of freedom of speech I guess.


              Oh, how I do enjoy playing in the sandbox with you, encode_decode. :evilfun:
              That I think is a very good answer. Keeping an open mind. I don't know if we could ever get to some sort of conclusion where the soul is concerned. Some of us decide to detach, let go, have faith and just believe what they choose. That's fine. Some of us withhold judgment remaining highly curious and imagining, pondering, musing. ~ living in negative capability. I love that expression, Keats. Thank you.


              The way in which you just described the physical body needing to be animated reminded me of Mary Shelly's Frankenstein.

              Cooooooooooool!

              It made me laugh.


              This is ALSO the christian or catholic view. At the moment of conception, the soul enters the body, for them.

              I like the seat of the consciousness. Institutionalized religion can believe what it wants as far as I am concerned. I am no part of this world.


              Do not misunderstand me. That is not my way of thinking. I was simply giving you another viewpoint.

              AD wrote: Consciousness as awareness, self-awareness, "what is it like to be me" et cetera?
              I prefer the word psyche to soul because many believe that the soul lives on but we can't know this.

              Let me tell you a little secret - I directed the question at one person in particular - because that person had the idea I liked the best. Until I received that idea I was banging my head against a brick wall - sometimes I wanted to defenestrate myself.


              You mean that the body is the soul and the spirit is its driving force . . .?
              I kind of think that expressing it in that way removes the soul, let's say human soul, from being something more ethereal or non corporeal - though not necessarily eternal.
              The brain and body are inter-connected ~~ the former resides within the later obviously but I personally still wouldn't express it that way - that the body is the soul unless you are saying that the soul somehow took up residence in the brain. There are many intangibles within the brain, right?
              It does boggle my mind though and it will continue to.


              I don't want to muddy the waters here but perhaps the psyche and human consciousness sit side by side. They are influenced by one another, both positively and negatively.

              I do say it is the seat of consciousness. Don't worry about the waters - you are free to say whatever you want, I think. My waters will remain clear.


              So you are saying that the soul is the seat of consciousness? Well, if we can say psyche I can agree. :lol: But then again, can we even be sure of that at this time? Have the scientists reached a fair conclusion about it? You would probably know more about that than I would.
              Do we know enough about both to even come to that conclusion? I'm hesitant about doing that.
              IF the [human] soul does reside *somewhere* within the brain, then perhaps it may.
              There was a time when I intuited that my soul was somewhere outside my body, about a foot or so all around it. LOL
              Muddy waters. #-o


              As far as muddying waters, I do think that sometimes that could be a good thing. This is not directed at you per se because I do understand and admire your need for clarity but I think that universally speaking, what would appear to be clear waters at times is not so clear at all. We do not like to disturb those waters. But that's just the way I feel.


              There we go. As you can see, you may be the teacher here and me the student. :evilfun:
              I don't think so - no one listens to me.

              I can't hear you. I can only read you.
              Anyway, stop fishing for compliments. :P

              We are all the students and all the teachers at different times.
              What do you think it is most important to be? :-"

              I think that when it comes to the intangibles in life, we all need to be a bit more skeptical and agnostic instead of automatically assuming and presuming that we have all of the answers simply because these answers put us in a comfort zone that is not built with bricks but really just built with wispy feathers...though wispy feathers can be quite beautiful!
              SAPERE AUDE!


              If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


              What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

              Thomas Nagel


              I learn as I write!
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