Is Truth An Absolute?

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

Moderator: Only_Humean

Is Truth An Absolute?

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:28 am

If everything changes, then there is no truth beyond momentarily. Truth is not a recurrence that pops in and out of reality. If no absolute, then no truth.

Why waste time trying to figure things out if they have no definitive answer. Yesterday's answer is not today's answer so what are we keeping track of, folks?

KT fights change, but if existence equals change then why fight a losing battle? It seems silly to even desire to curb change when that is what you extol, you report. Is it even a noble fight to try to impose an absolute on the meaning of words, to treat past history in absolutist's terms when it too was fluxom from previous times? Is the absolute handling of truth in this context of fluctuating reality not pure and simple male romanticism? We take history, which is glossed over to make it appear a certain way, and impose our contexts on it and try to squeeze some sanity from it as if it were true and some guiding light full of sage insights, when it's only one person's perspectives about events they were likely not a part of...it's wives tales we force kids to learn.

Crap...I'm ranting.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Is Truth An Absolute?

Postby surreptitious57 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:54 am

Wendy wrote:
If everything changes then there is no truth beyond momentarily

Not so because if everything changes then that is an absolute truth
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
surreptitious57
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1900
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:05 am

Re: Is Truth An Absolute?

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:21 am

But I don't believe that everything changes.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Is Truth An Absolute?

Postby surreptitious57 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:12 pm

For something not to change would mean that time did not exist so that cannot be true
One absolute truth therefore is that everything physical is in a constant state of change
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
surreptitious57
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1900
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:05 am

Re: Is Truth An Absolute?

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:59 pm

Time doesn't exist in some other dimensions. Our souls are not exactly physical as people understand physical, souls are unchanging eternal bodies, absolute in that sense and this reality is not all there is people.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Is Truth An Absolute?

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:08 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Why waste time trying to figure things out if they have no definitive answer. Yesterday's answer is not today's answer so what are we keeping track of, folks?

This is false. Advancements are being made. Definitive answers come from time to time. Human history has filled libraries with books and ancient wisdom. Rather it is ignorance and ignorant people, who refuse to learn, or confront 'negative' ideas and truths, that must suffer learning the hard way, or failing over and over again when they could have sought the proper solutions from the start. A lot of wisdom is already there, but still unknown by those who choose, knowingly or not, to live in ignorance. Because people prefer blissful ignorance rather than anxious knowing. Confronting the 'negative' sides of life and humanity is stressful. However the knowledge and solutions can be worthwhile.

Absolution is an ideal, that something does not change. Can you think of anything that does not change? Here's an easier question. Can you think of anything that does not move, or that is impossible to move? Earth doesn't really count because technically Earth is in motion, as a planet, spinning and also revolving around heavier mass and gravity in the solar system. Therefore all things on earth move, since earth itself is moving. Then, nothing on earth could be considered Absolute since all is moved.

Anything that moves is changed.


Christian Theology asked these questions and sought answers around 1000 AD. So these are not new questions. What is the "Immovable Object"? What is the "Prime Mover"? What is the "First Cause" that sets all things in motion?


Truth is relative because truth is a human value judgment. People decide whether a presupposition is true or false, and this is the source of all human "Truth". Therefore people can be wrong. And what they call true, can be false. Intelligence and wisdom lead to superior choices and judgments. Therefore what a wiser man and individual knows to be true, can be superior to what other people know to be true. Truth becomes relative to these skills, values, and judgments. What appears as an "absolute truth" to one person, who is dumb and ignorant, will not appear so to higher intelligence.

Stupid people usually have poor contexts and speak in absolutes. This is where modern stereotyping, "racism and sexism" come into play. A modern person believes that since one person did X, then the whole race does X, or the opposite gender does X. This is false, and, a signal of immature and inferior logic. Intelligence leads to nuance and degree. Sometimes generalizations and universals are true, but sometimes they're not.

As human history progressed to the 2nd millennium, 2000s, more discoveries were found. Christian Theology slowly began shifting into "Sciences", specifically a revolution as more Christians and European thinkers turned to Mathematics, Chemistry, and Physics. Specifically in Physics, the new "Scientists" believed that math and physical laws, equations, could be representations of absolute truth. For example do the formulas for work, power, energy, and gravity ever change, or are they universally constant? And if there were physical or natural laws that were universally constant then would it not be an absolute truth? The implication though, and presumption, is that humanity knows about or is aware of "the universe", when that is really not so.

What humanity knows of existence, is limited. And because knowledge is limited, so too would be any absolute truth or universal constant. Philosophy corrects these (Christian) scientific progressions or religious indoctrination. Checks and balances, lead to wisdom.


But to simply state that "we have not made any progress" is just outright ignorance of human history. That's like saying that art did not improve over the past 2000 years. Have you seen drawings and paintings of 0 AD, of 500 AD, of 1500 AD, of now??? What humanity does now with paintings and drawings is simply unimaginable even 100 years ago, thanks to computerization.
Urwrongx1000
 
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Is Truth An Absolute?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:56 pm

If everything changes, then there is no truth beyond momentarily. Truth is not a recurrence that pops in and out of reality. If no absolute, then no truth.


You need to understand what the word "absolute" means.

Absolute can mean one of the following things:
1. infinite, unlimited, endless (i.e. without an end)
2. complete, total, maximal (i.e. without exceptions)

Now you have to ask yourself "what does absolute truth mean"?
Good luck with that.

One interpretation is that "absolute truth" refers to a model of reality that does not necessarily predict every event in the universe (i.e. it is not all-encompassing) but that accurately predicts every event within a domain that is infinite in time. This means that it cannot be wrong. It is always right.

Now, you have to ask, how do we prove that a model of reality is an "absolute truth"?
It is impossible.

How can you observe something that is infinite?
You cannot.

You can assume infinity (based on prior observations) but you cannot observe it.
User avatar
Magnus Anderson
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3304
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:26 pm

Re: Is Truth An Absolute?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:26 pm

WendyDarling wrote:But I don't believe that everything changes.


The point is that every model of reality (i.e. every formula) that predicts an infinite number of events is always at a risk of being proven wrong.
No matter how many events conform it there will always be other events that may contradict it.
See Hume's "problem of induction".
That does not mean that every such model of reality is contradicted the moment it is created.
Or that it is contradicted shortly after it is created.
Or that it will be contradicted within a quadrillion years since its conception.
It makes no statement as to when it will be contradicted.
It simply says that it is possible for such a model to be contradicted at some point in the future.
Last edited by Magnus Anderson on Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Magnus Anderson
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3304
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:26 pm

Re: Is Truth An Absolute?

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:33 pm

Can you think of anything that does not change?

My eternal soul.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Is Truth An Absolute?

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:48 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:But I don't believe that everything changes.


The point is that every model of reality (i.e. every formula) that predicts an infinite number of events is always at a risk of being proven wrong.
No matter how many events conform it there always remain other events that may contradict it.
See Hume's "problem of induction".
That does not mean that every such model of reality is contradicted the moment it is created.
Or that it is contradicted shortly after it is created.
Or that it will be contradicted within a quadrillion years since its conception.
It makes no statement as to when it will be contradicted.
It simply says that it is possible for such a model to be contradicted at some point in the future.

How can I prove that the induction method used here to premise physical reality fails once other dimensions are visited?

If time or change only exists on two planes of reality, this Earth and the ethereal, what does that mean regarding existence...it's eternal right? All the other planes that I've visited have been based on and powered by the energy of pure emotions, pure consciousness without a typical physical form, no flesh, only ghostly appearances on the lower dimension I visited.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Is Truth An Absolute?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:41 pm

You lost me.
User avatar
Magnus Anderson
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3304
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:26 pm

Re: Is Truth An Absolute?

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:52 pm

I was afraid of that. Even if I narrated my experiences to you face to face, there would still be issues with understanding and believability. What's occurred to me sounds fantastic and I don't know how to relay it any better at this point to make it clearer.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Is Truth An Absolute?

Postby surreptitious57 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:41 pm

I think any dimensions you may have experienced are nothing more than higher states of consciousness and are not actually real
And may only exist within your mind but mind is a function of the brain which is physical so they therefore have a physical origin
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
surreptitious57
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1900
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:05 am

Re: Is Truth An Absolute?

Postby surreptitious57 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:47 pm


I do not believe what you do but wish you would discuss your experiences more as I am very interested in them
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
surreptitious57
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1900
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:05 am

Re: Is Truth An Absolute?

Postby Mr Reasonable » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:01 am

Its absolutely conditional.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/
User avatar
Mr Reasonable
resident contrarian
 
Posts: 24443
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 am
Location: pimping a hole straight through the stratosphere itself


Return to The Sandbox



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron