What sort of hedonist are you?

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What sort of hedonist are you?

Postby Gloominary » Sat May 20, 2017 2:51 pm

Everyone's a hedonist to some extent, nobody can be an ascetic all the time, in every way.
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Re: What sort of hedonist are you?

Postby Gloominary » Sat May 20, 2017 2:58 pm

Some people might not have to be as disciplined than others, cause they were born with good genes, or had good habits instilled from an early age.

Many or most of their desires may not be unhealthy, or excessive.
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Re: What sort of hedonist are you?

Postby Gloominary » Sat May 20, 2017 3:59 pm

I'll get the ball rolling, I've already gone over some of this stuff in other threads, but whatever.
I don't like work, especially physical, but even mental, unless I'm thinking about what I want to think about.
I like not having to work much, and for better or worse, this has isolated me from people, as most people like to work, or don't mind it, or are very motivated by the goodies they get, where as I'm not, I've always done the bare minimum to get by.
You could call this aversion hedonism, or negative hedonism, as opposed to positive hedonism, or desire hedonism, cause it's more about avoiding what you don't like, as opposed to pursuing what you do like.
Avoiding what you don't like can be very pleasurable in itself, it feels good to relax, take it easy.

Some people love their jobs, they take great pride and satisfaction in them, they make good money, and they're interested in what they do, but not most people, most people are just thinking about that paycheck, and often it's barely adequate, cause it's small, or they don't know how to keep their expenses down.

I find it's often either one or the other.
The more of an aversion/negative hedonist you are, the less you work, avoid doing things you hate/dislike, the more of a desire/positive ascetic you can be, the more you can be disciplined with the things you enjoy, whether it's food, wine or whatever, and spend your money wisely, frugally.
When we don't put much energy into work, we can put it into other things, like health, or activities which lack monetary value, but which may be very fulfilling in other ways.

A lot of ascetics and minimalists like Diogenes and Jesus were beggars, but you can still work and be disciplined in other areas, but the harder you work, the harder it is to be disciplined in other areas, I find, if you want to be disciplined in other areas at all, that is, if you don't, you'll just end up being a total hedonist.
People only have so much energy, can only exert themselves so much, and being disciplined requires energy, effort.
Having some healthy habits can give you more energy to work I suppose, but I find this isn't typically the case, from my experience.
Often it's the bad habits we turn to for energy: coffee, cigarettes, sugar and so on to get us going, to feel like working, where as when we have good habits, we just feel like doing in the minimum, what needs to be done.
It's the bad habits that distort our minds, make us restless, anxious for the future, and lustful.

I say it's better to be more moderate in food and drink, and work less.
I mean unless you have a family, what are you working for?
You're working for your bad habits, food, drugs, or material possessions, or poor spending habits.
Or you're a miser, which seems dumb to me, or you donate a lot of money to charity, which's rare.

And our bad habits keep us hamsters glued to the wheel, they're self perpetuating.
Most people have very small families or no families at all these days, so what's the point really?
I'd rather just work less, consume less and be healthier, have less of an impact on my environment, and avoid all the physical and psychological repercussions of an unhealthy lifestyle.
Even if I were to ever have a family, it would be a very small one, like one kid, maybe, maybe two, and I wouldn't try to own my own home, what's the point you don't need one, maybe a small apartment.
You don't need a lot of material things to have a family, you just need to put food on the table.
I would also try to get as much income assistance from government as I could.
Our bad habits have a lot of consequences for our health and happiness, I say it's better to be tempered, and not work so much, just have enough money to take care of your needs, and a lot of time to make the most of a small income, rather than little time to make the most out of a big one.
Last edited by Gloominary on Sun May 21, 2017 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What sort of hedonist are you?

Postby Meno_ » Sun May 21, 2017 3:23 am

Very generally I am an inverted hedonist, as my pain ~ approaches the threshold of variable pleasures, and reversely,
Into a multiverse of pain/pleasures, I tend to begin to trust my basic survival instincts more , whereby, reducing in a proverbial way singular perceptions of my body image, more in terms ,or contexts of primal body images.

A redifferention , even below that of the imago, where the interjection of body image is nihlized in favour of the projective identification

Narcississus becomes the prime motivator, against which a literal battle can not be won.

It takes ,figuratively, tons of work, to attain previously easy assumptions to the contrary.

Tantra Yoga helps but is fought with all sort of inauthentic ,existential angst for the danger this practice entails.
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Re: What sort of hedonist are you?

Postby Ecmandu » Sun May 21, 2017 4:02 pm

I'll tell you something meno, and I know you already know this...

The better a person you try to become, the harder the "demons" try to hit you
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Re: What sort of hedonist are you?

Postby Gloominary » Mon May 22, 2017 1:36 am

Meno_ wrote:Very generally I am an inverted hedonist, as my pain ~ approaches the threshold of variable pleasures, and reversely,
Into a multiverse of pain/pleasures, I tend to begin to trust my basic survival instincts more , whereby, reducing in a proverbial way singular perceptions of my body image, more in terms ,or contexts of primal body images.

A redifferention , even below that of the imago, where the interjection of body image is nihlized in favour of the projective identification

Narcississus becomes the prime motivator, against which a literal battle can not be won.

It takes ,figuratively, tons of work, to attain previously easy assumptions to the contrary.

Tantra Yoga helps but is fought with all sort of inauthentic ,existential angst for the danger this practice entails.

Okay......so you're a masochist....and your masochism causes you to think of your body more in primal or survival terms..which is good or bad, for you???
I'm guessing it's good cause it makes you feel more alive, uninhibited, in touch with your genuine, authentic humanity, your earthy self, which amplifies, enhances and multiplies pleasurable pain, and painful pleasure.
How did you come to take an interest in such things?
Do these sensations have any metapsychophysical significance for you, or are they just pleasant sensations?

Why do you wish to do away with body image, do you not like the way your body looks, or do you not feel comfortable in it?
What are you projecting in its place, a fantasy body, self?

You mentioned danger, do you damage your body to the point where your life is in peril?
What are the consequences of these pleasures you pursue, and are you sure they're worth them?
Why don't you just drink some beer, play video games or have sex like normal people?
Does normality bore you, are you looking for something more exotic, or mystical in nature?
Or do you just happen not to be attracted to such things?
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Re: What sort of hedonist are you?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat May 27, 2017 9:10 pm

Gloominary wrote:Everyone's a hedonist to some extent, nobody can be an ascetic all the time, in every way.


I think that even an ascetic is a hedonist in a way. An ascetic looks for pleasure by denying him/her self in ways. A hedonist comes in all different forms.
I try to be more the epicurean or at least I'm learning to be. It is a process.

Carpe Diem then becomes more of a discerning way of life. Less actually does becomes more, delaying gratifications adds to a deeper pleasure and happiness, and what we choose to be our passions and our raison de etres gives rise to a better life. We seek quality over quantity.

Instead of eating three Reese's Peanut Butter cups, I will eat only one (usually :oops: ) but I will eat it more slowly, savoring it with all of the pleasure I can give to it and take from it.

Ultimately, the hedonist is miserable because enough is never really enough and the more one gets, the more one wants and the more dissatisfied one is because there is never enough.
Epicureanism or more of a fine, discerning balance is more of an intelligent way to live.

It is a whirling process but more fun too.
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If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

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Re: What sort of hedonist are you?

Postby Gloominary » Sun May 28, 2017 10:10 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Everyone's a hedonist to some extent, nobody can be an ascetic all the time, in every way.


I think that even an ascetic is a hedonist in a way. An ascetic looks for pleasure by denying him/her self in ways. A hedonist comes in all different forms.
I try to be more the epicurean or at least I'm learning to be. It is a process.

Carpe Diem then becomes more of a discerning way of life. Less actually does becomes more, delaying gratifications adds to a deeper pleasure and happiness, and what we choose to be our passions and our raison de etres gives rise to a better life. We seek quality over quantity.

Instead of eating three Reese's Peanut Butter cups, I will eat only one (usually :oops: ) but I will eat it more slowly, savoring it with all of the pleasure I can give to it and take from it.

Ultimately, the hedonist is miserable because enough is never really enough and the more one gets, the more one wants and the more dissatisfied one is because there is never enough.
Epicureanism or more of a fine, discerning balance is more of an intelligent way to live.

It is a whirling process but more fun too.

Good points.

There are hedonic reasons for being an ascetic.
You might even say asceticism is just a round about way of being a hedonist.
When asceticism is done right, it can improve your health, and being healthy feels good.
But these good feelings have substance to them, they're a product of the body and mind reaching their full potential, functioning optimally, flourishing, where as the feelings you get when binge eating, drinking, gambling, playing video games, especially mindless ones and so on are superficial, they're seldom accompanied by health benefits, but health detriments, althou a little binging now and then might be beneficial.

But the ascetic doesn't just do it to feel good arguably, but because flourishing is itself desirable.

There's also a certain sense of security, pride and confidence, which can all be very pleasurable perceptions, a person acquires when they attain self mastery over their physical, emotional and mental appetites.

We also appreciate and enjoy pleasure more when it's infrequent, after a period of denial.


There are different forms of asceticism just as there are different forms of hedonism.
One way of dividing them is according to severity, how much they deny themselves.
Another is according to how much they mistrust their body.
Some ascetics live according to a detailed plan, where every bit of food, drink, exercise, sleep and so on is regulated, in accordance with mainline or alt science, where as others, while still being disciplined and avoiding excess, listen to their bodies regarding how of what they should consume.
Some ascetics are severe, to the point of starvation, where as others are more mild, and allow themselves occasional indulgences.
They try to improve and maintain good health, rather than seeing how much they can deny themselves without dying, or starving themselves.

The kind of asceticism I advocate is the one where we listen to our bodies, and our emotions, they are our allies, a part of who we are, especially when functioning properly, but they can be lead astray when the body has been corrupted with physical and psychological impurities.
I would advocate health, not mortification, flagellation, nor doing everything according to some rigid regiment.

There are also asceticisms in different areas, for example, one can be a bodily ascetic, but not a mental ascetic.
Mental asceticism could be like meditation, not overthinking, or having to satisfy every curiosity we have.
Allowing ourselves to be ignorant about some things, especially unimportant things, or things that're impossible to know, which reminds me of like zen.
Emptying our heads to some extent, so they can be filled more with the present moment, with what is, and the sense of peace that comes from that, rather than endlessly speculating about the past/future.

Yea they can be divided broadly into mental or physical asceticism, but there might even be a social asceticism, like how many friends, associates and acquaintances do you really need?
It's all about living in accordance with need, and with what's actually healthy, substantive, rather than having to satisfy every urge, yea quality over quantity.

It's a discipline, and there's different forms of discipline, some insist on working really hard, so they can satisfy as many of their desires as they possibly can, where as the ascetic keeps desires to a minimum.
These are two very different forms of discipline, and moderns are quite taken with the former, the latter is anathema.

Of course few can be 100% disciplined, but you don't have to be, just being more disciplined than you otherwise would be, helps, and it is probably good or at least okay to indulge sometimes, and not be too hard on ourselves, thou I find after near a life time of indulgence, it's often necessary to go to the other extreme, in order to really attain health, because the body and mind are so thoroughly polluted.
Last edited by Gloominary on Mon May 29, 2017 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What sort of hedonist are you?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon May 29, 2017 5:08 am

A hedonistic failure I am unless one considers entertaining oneself a great hedonistic indulgence. If, when you feel good and generally happy in any given moment, is that hedonism?

I'm more liken to an experientialist I think, although sensual pleasure (texture, lighting, scent, etc.) helps define a memory and really engrave it into one's soul. I horde memories, that's my hedonism I guess.
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Re: What sort of hedonist are you?

Postby Gloominary » Mon May 29, 2017 11:36 am

In addition to avoiding the pain of hard work, or avertive hedonism, as opposed to positive hedonism, I'm a mental hedonist, I spend a lot of time online, probably more than I should, researching, occasionally writing, theorizing this, speculating on that, it keeps me busy and I enjoy it, but you can overstimulate your mind, and understimulate other areas of your life, like more practical ones.
Internet hedonism is a common one these days, peculiar to our modern age.
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Re: What sort of hedonist are you?

Postby Gloominary » Mon May 29, 2017 11:47 am

WendyDarling wrote:A hedonistic failure I am unless one considers entertaining oneself a great hedonistic indulgence. If, when you feel good and generally happy in any given moment, is that hedonism?

I'm more liken to an experientialist I think, although sensual pleasure (texture, lighting, scent, etc.) helps define a memory and really engrave it into one's soul. I horde memories, that's my hedonism I guess.

Entertainment is definitely a form of mental or emotional hedonism.
How do you entertain yourself?

It depends on how you define the word hedonism.
I would say if your feelings of goodness and happiness are based on frivolous things, than yea, it's hedonism, but if they're based on just being alive, or substantive things, like good food, friends, conversation, doing meaningful work and such...well that might be hedonism too, but it's of a different sort, more qualitative and enduring, less ephemeral, fleeting.

Interesting, so you're into memorable experiences.
That's not what we normally think of when we hear the word hedonism, but it qualifies.
Yea we're all quite unique, some people hoard beliefs, information or knowledge, or they hoard material things, money, people or food, you hoard memories and experiences.
Nothing wrong with that, that's cool.
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Re: What sort of hedonist are you?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon May 29, 2017 7:40 pm

What's nice about the internet and websites where you can share your mind is that upon revisiting those captured moments in time you visit yourself from a new perspective and quite often I laugh in dismay at what I've written.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What sort of hedonist are you?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed May 31, 2017 7:20 pm

WendyDarling

A hedonistic failure I am unless one considers entertaining oneself a great hedonistic indulgence.

When I listen to great music, when I read a great book, when I watch a great movie, when I sit and savor a great cup of coffee, when I enjoy a delicious, to-die-for tuna melt :evilfun: I don't consider that to be hedonistic in nature. That is simply enjoying my humanity. Perhaps it is a bit epicurean in nature but perhaps not :-k because there is quality and not quantity involved and conscious aware also. There is also a sense of having had ENOUGH! The hedonistic never experiences that emotion or sensation.

If, when you feel good and generally happy in any given moment, is that hedonism?


Hedonism always seeks that fix...is miserable when it is not found and cares not for who may be destroyed through that. For example, Dorian Gray (Oscar Wild's Picture of Dorian Gray).
Seeking what we know can cause us happiness is not hedonistic in nature. It's both human and intelligent within a certain balance. I don't view wanting to be happy as hedonism since without being happy sometimes, how could we wish to survive and live.

Your quote above ~~~That is also what you would call being "blessed" and one "aha" moment.
You might also call that having good brain chemistry.



I'm more liken to an experientialist I think, although sensual pleasure (texture, lighting, scent, etc.) helps define a memory and really engrave it into one's soul. I horde memories, that's my hedonism I guess.


Oh, I don't know if one would call that being hedonistic, Wendy. It's human and natural to want to hold those wonderful "aha" moments, those special meaningful moments and experiences within us. But of course, if that is one's ONLY main focus then there is something missing.
Don't horde too many memories though because if you do then where is the room for the new ones? We have to feng shui our minds at times. I love the word "feng shui". It speaks to me. :lol:

I think that the distinction between hedonism and epicureanism is balance and refinement.
The epicurean enjoys the finest of wines within perhaps a single glass. The hedonistic becomes the alcoholic.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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