Your ideal laws?

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Your ideal laws?

Postby Amorphos » Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:09 am

Your ideal laws?

I’ll start…
1.anyone who says ‘it means so much’, it doesn’t. or ‘going forwards…’ you’re not progressives you’re conservatives going backwards, so stop stealing our shit. I propose long prisons sentences for all involved, ideally on mars or something.

But seriously folks, if you could add one single law what would it be?
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:42 am

Amorphos wrote:Your ideal laws?

I’ll start…
1.anyone who says ‘it means so much’, it doesn’t. or ‘going forwards…’ you’re not progressives you’re conservatives going backwards, so stop stealing our shit. I propose long prisons sentences for all involved, ideally on mars or something.

But seriously folks, if you could add one single law what would it be?


Not an addition ... yet ... perhaps a necessary reminder ... the unwritten law that has survived the ages ... "The Golden Rule"
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:56 pm

Laws of nature.

Lawless vigilism.

Sick of feminized and indoctrinated wusses and pansies enforcing their fascist bullshit morality on me.
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby Amorphos » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:38 am

the Golden Rule. In the King James Version of the Bible the text reads: Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do. to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Doesn’t work e.g. when a fetishist doesn’t mind being raped, or thieves steal off each other accepting each others actions as thieves.

Laws of nature.


I don’t want to be eaten though, nor live in a world where everyone is going around shooting at and eating each other.

Should laws be more particular? Perhaps specific to the case as well as universal.
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:35 am

Amorphos wrote:the Golden Rule. In the King James Version of the Bible the text reads: Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do. to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Doesn’t work e.g. when a fetishist doesn’t mind being raped, or thieves steal off each other accepting each others actions as thieves.


I just now realized how ubiquitous the notion of "Golden Rule" really is ... apparently with written reference long before the Biblical reference you quoted.

I agree that all written forms of the Golden Rule are obscure ... with hidden implicit assumptions ... as you rightly pointed out ... the assumption one would never consciously do anything to harm oneself ... a fallacy?

I just discovered a version of the Golden Rule that resonates with me ...

“All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really One.”


Native American Spirituality: Black Elk
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:18 am

Holy cow muffins!!

Just read this post written by Peter K in July 2015 ... he must be related to Black Elk. :-)

Ethics, morality, how do I treat my fellow man?
We are the same, you and I. We are just one more form of material that is atoms.
Treating you badly is the same as treating me badly because we came from the same place,
created by the same forces, atoms doing the same things as Lego's and rebuilding over and over
again. I cannot treat you badly simply because we are the same. the ocean and the sky and the land,
the same building blocks that made you and me. Atoms being busy with different designs but using
the same matter with the same rules of physics and chemistry and biology that runs through everything
else in our solar system. We have a commonality because we exist from the same matter, the same rules,
the same biology, just slightly different form. To damage you is to damage me is to damage every single
other biological entity in our solar system for we are the same and you can add all the inorganic matter
in our universe which arises from the exact processes that created you and me. the question of ethics
just became a whole lot easier because we are one and the same and only a very silly human, would on
purpose, damage themselves. And the pills are doing their magic, so off to bed I go.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:46 am

More cow muffins ...

I wonder if Peter K remembers his "atoms" stopping over in China more than 2,000 years ago ... using the name Zhunag Zi. :-)

Peter's attitude toward government seems to dovetail with Zhuang Zi's attitude towards same. Zhuang zi vigorously opposed formal government, which Zhuang zi seems to have felt was problematic at its foundation because of the opposition between man and nature.

When Zhuangzi's wife died, Huizi came to the house to join in the rites of mourning. To his surprise he found Zhuangzi sitting with an inverted bowl on his knees, drumming upon it and singing a song.

"After all," said Huizi, "she lived with you, brought up your children, grew old with you. That you should not mourn for her is bad enough, but to let your friends find you drumming and singing--that is going too far!"

"You misjudge me," said Zhuangzi. "When she died, I was in despair, as any man well might be. But soon, pondering on what had happened, I told myself that in death no strange new fate befalls us. In the beginning, we lack not life only, but form. Not form only, but spirit. We are blended in one great featureless indistinguishable mass. Then a time came when the mass evolved spirit, spirit evolved form, form evolved life. And now life in its turn has evolved death. For not nature only but man's being has its seasons, its sequence of spring and autumn, summer and winter. If someone is tired and has gone to lie down, we do not pursue him with shouting and bawling. She whom I have lost has lain down to sleep for a while in the Great Inner Room. To break in upon her rest with the noise of lamentation would but show that I knew nothing of nature's Sovereign Law. That is why I ceased to mourn."
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby phyllo » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:26 pm

Peter's attitude toward government seems to dovetail with Zhuang Zi's attitude towards same. Zhuang zi vigorously opposed formal government, which Zhuang zi seems to have felt was problematic at its foundation because of the opposition between man and nature.
PK loves government. Government will save us all. Hallelujah.
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby James S Saint » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:54 pm

  • "No relative degree of burden or blessing should be placed upon any individual that isn't also placed upon his government."
  • "No reach of authority should ever exceed its reach of awareness."


( aka. "Do unto others...")
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby Venture » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:58 pm

My ideal laws:
1. Deinstitutionalized education and literacy.
2. Learning at least 3 languages before the age of 21.
3. Birth control options for people of any age, ethnicity, and gender.
"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
"
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby Amorphos » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:15 pm

“All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really One.”


Ah that’s better, given that ‘most of us’ would not want to harm our relatives, if we consider everyone to be brothers in one family, there would be no reason to sin. There is an inherent trust there I think.

1.Deinstitutionalized education and literacy.


The education itself needs to be more flexible, but private schools have hierarchies and respective costs, meaning that the already privaledged become entitled to a privalidged life by birth and not merit. This is relatively inefficient and shall be defeated by those who use a an unbiased schemata.

2.Learning at least 3 languages before the age of 21.


No, everyone should just learn english, its obviously the one most people use already as a second language.

3. Birth control options for people of any age, ethnicity, and gender.


Well if people must get involved with all that organic stuff. Otherwise just build and grow as many people as are required. yes btw. :)
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby Arminius » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:08 am

pilgrim_tom wrote:
Amorphos wrote:Your ideal laws?

I’ll start…
1.anyone who says ‘it means so much’, it doesn’t. or ‘going forwards…’ you’re not progressives you’re conservatives going backwards, so stop stealing our shit. I propose long prisons sentences for all involved, ideally on mars or something.

But seriously folks, if you could add one single law what would it be?


Not an addition ... yet ... perhaps a necessary reminder ... the unwritten law that has survived the ages ... "The Golden Rule"

QVOD TIBI HOC ALTERI

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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby Arminius » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:03 am

„Was du nicht willst, das man dir tu, // das füg auch keinem andern zu.“
That means something like (but without rhyme :cry: ): „Do as you would be done by.“

„Handle so, daß du die Menschheit sowohl in deiner Person als in der Person eines jeden andern jederzeit zugleich als Zweck, niemals bloß als Mittel brauchst!“ - Immanuel Kant.
My translation: “Act so that you always treat humanity both in your own person and in everyone else’s person as an end, never as a mere means”
„Handle stets so, als ob die Maxime deines Handelns durch deinen Willen jederzeit zur Grundlage einer allgemeinen Gesetzgebung dienen könnte.“ - Immanuel Kant.
My translation: “Act always as if the maxims of your action could, through your will, serve at any time as the basis of a general law.”

James S Saint wrote:
  • "No relative degree of burden or blessing should be placed upon any individual that isn't also placed upon his government."
  • "No reach of authority should ever exceed its reach of awareness."


( aka. "Do unto others...")

Agreed.

Venture wrote:My ideal laws:
1. Deinstitutionalized education and literacy.
2. Learning at least 3 languages before the age of 21.
3. Birth control options for people of any age, ethnicity, and gender.

To 1.) The realization could be too difficult in the case of a huge number of certain people.
To 2.) How many and, if at least 3, which languages did you fluently speak before you were 21 years old?
To 3.) Only if it is in fact a fair deal.

Amorphos wrote:Everyone should just learn english, its obviously the one most people use already as a second language.

Agreed only in the case of an interlanguage ("lingua franca") - not in the case of a highly intellctual/spiritual language, a language of science and philosophy. :)

So Venture could be right, if there were no other problems in the case of "learning at least 3 languages before the age of 21". What about 7 languages (and 3 of them must be "dead" languages)? :P
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby Venture » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:03 am

Arminius wrote:
Venture wrote:My ideal laws:
1. Deinstitutionalized education and literacy.
2. Learning at least 3 languages before the age of 21.
3. Birth control options for people of any age, ethnicity, and gender.

To 1.) The realization could be too difficult in the case of a huge number of certain people.
To 2.) How many and, if at least 3, which languages did you fluently speak before you were 21 years old?
To 3.) Only if it is in fact a fair deal.


1 is the most difficult out of the 3 proposed, almost an impossible ideal. I am not yet 21 and I speak English and French (cannot read French easily, still a beginner). I am in the process of learning Latin, Greek, German, and Mandarin. I can make a change to law 2, being that 1 of the 3 should be a dead language.

Amorphos wrote:No, everyone should just learn english, its obviously the one most people use already as a second language


That assertion implies a minimum of 2 languages. Add Latin or Ancient Greek as a third and now Arminius and yourself can sleep at night knowing I compensated.
"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
"
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby Arminius » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:50 pm

Venture wrote:
Arminius wrote:
Venture wrote:My ideal laws:
1. Deinstitutionalized education and literacy.
2. Learning at least 3 languages before the age of 21.
3. Birth control options for people of any age, ethnicity, and gender.

To 1.) The realization could be too difficult in the case of a huge number of certain people.
To 2.) How many and, if at least 3, which languages did you fluently speak before you were 21 years old?
To 3.) Only if it is in fact a fair deal.


1 is the most difficult out of the 3 proposed, almost an impossible ideal. I am not yet 21 and I speak English and French (cannot read French easily, still a beginner). I am in the process of learning Latin, Greek, German, and Mandarin. I can make a change to law 2, being that 1 of the 3 should be a dead language.

Amorphos wrote:No, everyone should just learn english, its obviously the one most people use already as a second language


That assertion implies a minimum of 2 languages. Add Latin or Ancient Greek as a third and now Arminius and yourself can sleep at night knowing I compensated.

Ah, thank you, but: compensated what exactly?

By the way: I fullfilled your second "ideal law" ("learning at least 3 languages before the age of 21") even before I was 11 years old!

May I ask you how old you are exactly?

And one more question please: Would you please say more about you third "ideal law"?
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby Venture » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:17 pm

Arminius wrote:Ah, thank you, but: compensated what exactly?

By the way: I fullfilled your second "ideal law" ("learning at least 3 languages before the age of 21") even before I was 11 years old!

May I ask you how old you are exactly?

And one more question please: Would you please say more about you third "ideal law"?


I compensated by requiring one ancient language and one should be English, or whatever the normative international language is of the time. The third law requires the public distribution of COCP and condoms/contraceptive barrier devices for STI protection (the first promotes menstrual health, the latter prevents STIs and pregnancy). The first and third ideal law mainly concern the general health of the female population and the advancement of family life. Most countries in desperate situations are absent of these notions. I am 18.
"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
"
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby Arminius » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:15 pm

Venture wrote:
Arminius wrote:Ah, thank you, but: compensated what exactly?

By the way: I fullfilled your second "ideal law" ("learning at least 3 languages before the age of 21") even before I was 11 years old!

May I ask you how old you are exactly?

And one more question please: Would you please say more about you third "ideal law"?


I compensated by requiring one ancient language and one should be English, or whatever the normative international language is of the time. The third law requires the public distribution of COCP and condoms/contraceptive barrier devices for STI protection (the first promotes menstrual health, the latter prevents STIs and pregnancy). The first and third ideal law mainly concern the general health of the female population and the advancement of family life. Most countries in desperate situations are absent of these notions. I am 18.

Thank you, Venture.
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby Amorphos » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:49 pm

So Venture could be right, if there were no other problems in the case of "learning at least 3 languages before the age of 21". What about 7 languages (and 3 of them must be "dead" languages)?


I have a visual intellect and can think of nothing more horrible lol. For those who wish it, it should be there for them to learn though not mandatory.

Why stop there, why not invent and teach a new calligraphic language, and practice its art by drawing it on squares of sand [like Chinese calligraphers do]? the future I think will require many more universal symbols e.g. on our control panels and what have you.
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The cosmic insignificance of humanity, shows the cosmic insignificance of a universe without humanity.
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby Venture » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:54 pm

Amorphos wrote:
So Venture could be right, if there were no other problems in the case of "learning at least 3 languages before the age of 21". What about 7 languages (and 3 of them must be "dead" languages)?


I have a visual intellect and can think of nothing more horrible lol. For those who wish it, it should be there for them to learn though not mandatory.

Why stop there, why not invent and teach a new calligraphic language, and practice its art by drawing it on squares of sand [like Chinese calligraphers do]? the future I think will require many more universal symbols e.g. on our control panels and what have you.


Revision:
2. Learn 3 languages before the age of 21
i) The international language of that time
ii) A Dead Language
iii) The symbols and operators of computational, philosophical, or mathematical logic
"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
"
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby Amorphos » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:08 pm

2. Learn 3 languages before the age of 21
i) The international language of that time
ii) A Dead Language
iii) The symbols and operators of computational, philosophical, or mathematical logic


or a gadget which does those things, akin to the star trek translator. hmm perhaps language is an art-form and that's its value? ergo the law should be to do art, where in fact all humans require is to not have anything stopping them from doing that.
The truth is naked,
Once it is written it is lost.
Genius is the result of the entire product of man.
The cosmic insignificance of humanity, shows the cosmic insignificance of a universe without humanity.
the fully painted picture, reveals an empty canvas
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Re: Your ideal laws?

Postby Venture » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:58 am

Amorphos wrote:
2. Learn 3 languages before the age of 21
i) The international language of that time
ii) A Dead Language
iii) The symbols and operators of computational, philosophical, or mathematical logic


or a gadget which does those things, akin to the star trek translator. hmm perhaps language is an art-form and that's its value? ergo the law should be to do art, where in fact all humans require is to not have anything stopping them from doing that.


Having a gadget which does those things would outsource our own ability to do art. This is a great idea, apart from the gadget thing, I think we should all participate in art in complete solitude.
"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
"
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