alpha chicks and beta chicks

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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby gib » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:23 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:
Well, if we're done talking about alpha chicks and beta chicks in the music industry for the moment, I'd like to switch gears and talk about alpha and beta men in the music industry.


Isn't it interesting how you never define your own terms but you always demand from others to define theirs?


Why does this provoke hostility in you?

I took it for granted at the opening of this thread that the terms "alpha" and "beta" would be relatively non-problematic. But I have since seen that different people have different definitions. I have defined these terms in a few places throughout this thread as follows:

alpha: possessing/displaying the characteristics of aggression and domination over other people.

beta: opposite of alpha.

Others here seem to have defined "alpha" and "beta" in terms of social/functional rolls (as opposed to personalities), some with inner toughness, some with sexuality (i.e. manliness/femininity), and so on. But the above are my definitions.

I don't know why I decided to couch this whole discussion in music--I guess it was part of what inspired me to start this thread (I listen to music a lot and one of things I like to do is research the artists I listen to, and sometimes I think about the female artists and how alpha/beta they are)--but needless to say I am not correlating alpha/beta with musical talent--technically music doesn't have anything to do with it.
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“Everyone is always like ‘how do you feel about feminism? how do you feel about feminism?’ and it’s like maybe I don’t wanna fucking talk about feminism, maybe I just wanna be a female producer, because it’s like even being a female producer is so rare it drives people fucking crazy. It’s like my sheer existence is like a political act, I think, to a lot of people. It’s not to me.”

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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:25 pm

A Shieldmaiden wrote:Arc wrote:
Too bad you weren't watching as I fought back the wimp who assaulted me and tried to rape me. I won out ~~ as scared and shaky as I was. He got up and ran eventually. I was too much for him although I do realize that had it been another man things might have turned out differently. But I would have still done my best to inflict as much on him at least I would have tried.


Did you know this man?


No, he was a stranger. He grabbed me from behind on the street and let me think that he had a gun to my back. It was dark outside. We walked like that for about two blocks. The police said that it was probably a metal pipe of some kind. Somehow I began to intuit that it wasn't a gun and reached up to feel for it. That's when we came to an area with parked cars. He threw me on the ground and that's when I began to fight back screaming. Too much traffic to be heard but I kept on screaming and fighting him.
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What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:55 am

Did you see his face and did they apprehend him?
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby AutSider » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:09 pm



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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:21 am

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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby gib » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:26 am

AutSider wrote:


I love how the guy just walks away at the end... and the cops stroll casually behind him.
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby Pandora » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:28 am

AutSider wrote:[youtube]http://leaaa.pecsyxyfi.legsq.nl3.gsr.awhoer.net/watch?v=wdhYVFJtiN0[/youtube]


They are supposed to follow the use of force continuum, and I saw them go only up to 3 levels (a law enforcement official is justified in use of all levels in order to gain compliance, provided it's done by following procedure). I didn't hear them give clear verbal commands (important part of continuum). After about 1:30 level 4 or 5 was clearly justified but they didn't pursue it. How many levels of force does Sweden have anyway? It didn't look like they even had any weapons on them (then why put them as cops? - not everyone is going to comply with officer presence [male of female]- that's why they're issued weapons). Maybe it's Swedish standards. Were there be 3 scrawny men cops, nobody would probably give it a second thought and sympathize with the cops. There are plenty of stories and videos floating around of "Good Samaritan who comes to officer's rescue [because he couldn't gain control of suspect]", and nobody would say that the policeman is incompetent.

gib wrote:Anyone like Twenty One Pilots? I think they're great. Almost every one of their songs has reached the charts on the radio, at least in my part of the world. The lead singer, Tyler Joseph, strikes me as beta--and he doesn't hide it--in fact, it almost seems to be part of his act, an almost child-like innocence that he likes to put into his art.
I'm also a big fan of Mother Mother--they too are quite prolific--and the lead singer of this band, Ryan Guldemond, strikes me as alpha. Not really like a bully or anything--in fact, he seems like a pretty nice guy, fun to hang around with--but very "manly":
I've never heard of either of them, but listening to them for me is like walking into an IKEA store. (I'd would pretty much have the same facial expression) :wink:
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby AutSider » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:15 pm

It didn't look like they even had any weapons on them


At 0:55 one of them pulls a baton but the guy knocks it out of her hand.

Were there be 3 scrawny men cops, nobody would probably give it a second thought and sympathize with the cops. There are plenty of stories and videos floating around of "Good Samaritan who comes to officer's rescue [because he couldn't gain control of suspect]", and nobody would say that the policeman is incompetent.


The thing is that the dude in this video looks average. He isn't too tall, he doesn't have an incredibly robust build, he isn't too muscular, he doesn't look like he knows martial arts - just an average or maybe a bit above average young dude. And 3 supposedly trained police officers whose most important task is physical enforcement of laws, couldn't deal with him physically. What the fuck are they being paid for? To drive around in the police car and pretend to be strong and empowered?

If your point is that the standards should be the same for men and women and that both should be judged equally harshly for their failings, sure. But if 3 trained police officers can't deal with an average dude, then something is really fucking wrong with their standards. I'm not saying men who can't make the cut should be given any more lenience than women who can't, I'm saying standards need to be raised so that police aren't useless.

I doubt you can find a story where 3 (or more) male officers are trying to but can't deal with an average dude after he's already been knocked to the ground by a citizen, and after the criminal has been surrounded and grabbed by all 3 officers.
If not for that dude in white these policewomen wouldn't have been able to do shit to the criminal, they wouldn't even get close.
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby gib » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:32 pm

Pandora wrote:I've never heard of either of them, but listening to them for me is like walking into an IKEA store. (I'd would pretty much have the same facial expression) :wink:


I have no idea what facial expression you display when you walk into an IKEA store.
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“Everyone is always like ‘how do you feel about feminism? how do you feel about feminism?’ and it’s like maybe I don’t wanna fucking talk about feminism, maybe I just wanna be a female producer, because it’s like even being a female producer is so rare it drives people fucking crazy. It’s like my sheer existence is like a political act, I think, to a lot of people. It’s not to me.”

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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby Pandora » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:31 pm

AutSider wrote:
At 0:55 one of them pulls a baton but the guy knocks it out of her hand.

Okay, then they're not well trained, or are still inexperienced. (looks like they don't carry pepper spray, tasers, or guns, too, because batons are higher on the continuum than pepper spray). Anyway, they seem to have been trained in takedowns but not so much in joint manipulation (and proper teamwork). Takedowns are followed by arm/wrist locks for a reason, and I did not see it being executed when the suspect was down on the ground. And that's why he was able to get up again. When somebody is pretty much kneeling on your elbow and twisting your hand, you're not going to be able to get up, no matter your size. It's a matter of mechanics. Those that have studied aikido will understand this. But these techniques are not just about mechanical immobilization, but also pain compliance (which should be swift and painful). And once you get control, you don't let go. (I did not see the women proceed to this stage, so they never got positive control over the guy...and that could have been a problem with their team working skills as well. The woman on the right was in the best position to lock him down, and she should have done that right away). Usually, the suspect would be handcuffed while on the ground, while maintaining control (via joint manipulation/pain) and if he still attempted to get up, he could be taken down with iron wrist takedown, and that is usually quote painful and effective, if executed properly. So, I'd say it's lack of training. Another weakness that women usually have and have to overcome is aversion to inflicting pain, and that could have been a part of it.

The thing is that the dude in this video looks average. He isn't too tall, he doesn't have an incredibly robust build, he isn't too muscular, he doesn't look like he knows martial arts - just an average or maybe a bit above average young dude. And 3 supposedly trained police officers whose most important task is physical enforcement of laws, couldn't deal with him physically. What the fuck are they being paid for? To drive around in the police car and pretend to be strong and empowered?
People high on drugs usually have a higher pain tolerance and could be harder to control. Most of the suspects in videos where male cops are being rescued are average looking, too. This is why everyone has to go through the Redman training. So, their failing were due to inadequate training or experience, not because they are women. Personally, I hope this would serve as a good learning example for them (I mean the video). Usually, this would involve a death or serious injury to the fellow police officer, so they are lucky in a way.

If your point is that the standards should be the same for men and women and that both should be judged equally harshly for their failings, sure. But if 3 trained police officers can't deal with an average dude, then something is really fucking wrong with their standards.
Yes, this is a reflection of the training standards of this local law enforcement agency. We like to think that the US has the highest and toughest law enforcement standards but it's actually not so. We live in a litigious society and the use of force by authorities has to follow specific procedures. For example, if you swing a baton, you can only hit meaty portions of the body (muscles), so you don't actually break any bones. If you swing and break a bone, you could potentially be subject to a civil lawsuit, so you have to be mindful of the procedure at all times. These things happen by accident, of course, but it's not the proper use of baton, according to procedure. In other parts of the world, however, where people don't sue each other as much, there is no such provision for use of force, so when their police officers start swinging their batons, it could easily result in broken bones or cracked scull, or worse. In other words, they have the legal authority to essentially beat someone to death with a baton.
I'm not saying men who can't make the cut should be given any more lenience than women who can't, I'm saying standards need to be raised so that police aren't useless.
I agree with that.

gib wrote:I have no idea what facial expression you display when you walk into an IKEA store.

It's garbage, gib. It's garbage.
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:23 pm

Pandora wrote
Another weakness that women usually have and have to overcome is aversion to inflicting pain, and that could have been a part of it.


I agree.

When has the general population of women ever been encouraged to fight, to strike, to wrestle? Most women do not readily give themselves permission to exert physical force in an altercation for combat physicality is not a customary arena in which they are encouraged to partake. Those reservations, pulling punches and pain infliction aversion, are huge mental stumbling blocks for women.
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby Mr Reasonable » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:28 pm

A woman slaps a mans face in public. Everyone rushes to see what the man did, condemn him, and console the woman. A man punches a woman in the face, he's condemned, the woman is consoled. If every case of a woman slapping a man's face were reported, the domestic violence numbers would be dramatically different. But a man who reports that sort of thing would in most cases be shamed and looked down on by society.

Anyone wanna talk about that?
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:29 am

Pandora wrote
Another weakness that women usually have and have to overcome is aversion to inflicting pain, and that could have been a part of it.

Pandora wrote:
Reminds me... When I was in the first grade, I wanted to know what it's like for a woman to slap a man (after seeing it done so many times in the movies).

FIRST GRADE! you must have been 4 or 5 years of age and watching AO movies.

I can't quite conceive of a child of such a tender age entertaining such thoughts! But there you are against all odds overcoming the 'weakness women usually have in not inflicting pain', actually planning and seeking out a boy to do exactly that. Strange, to say the least......
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby AutSider » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:17 pm

Mr Reasonable wrote:A woman slaps a mans face in public. Everyone rushes to see what the man did, condemn him, and console the woman. A man punches a woman in the face, he's condemned, the woman is consoled. If every case of a woman slapping a man's face were reported, the domestic violence numbers would be dramatically different. But a man who reports that sort of thing would in most cases be shamed and looked down on by society.

Anyone wanna talk about that?


I already did. These different social consequences for female/male aggression, coupled with different biological roles, is why I said that female aggression typically isn't worthy of respect or desirable, because women often get a pass due to their pussy so they don't have to face the full costs of their behavior as a man would. You could argue that the pussy pass is in itself a strength, and you'd be right, but the problem is it's a strength that is dependent on the psychological weakness of an other, it is dependent on the other adopting the "don't hit women" mangina mentality. It effectively emasculates and weakens the other mentally, which often also results in physical emasculation and thus in the men being less able to defend their women. This in turns makes the group prone to being conquered by a more patriarchal and masculine group. See how European males have been forcefully emasculated by the state so foreigners come and rape their women. If European men were sane and healthy they would be patriarchal and masculine, there would be machine gun nests at the borders and refugees would be shot down mercilessly without warning, then the men would have a beer and laugh about the dead sand-niggers who tried to get into their countries.

Instead, this shit happens:
http://www.dailystormer.com/germany-neg ... s-in-fear/
http://www.dailystormer.com/sweden-no-o ... he-street/

So in the end women don't benefit much from emasculating their own men... unless you count being raped by ugly, low IQ niggers and sand-niggers as a benefit.

Pandora

Okay, then they're not well trained, or are still inexperienced. (looks like they don't carry pepper spray, tasers, or guns, too, because batons are higher on the continuum than pepper spray).


So it has to do with EVERYTHING else except the fact that they're women and so have the bodybuild and strength and fighting instincts/mentality of a woman?

The thing is, if a man displays physical dominance over a woman, a womanly woman I mean, unless he was straight up abusive and tried to kill her or something she would be attracted to such a man because he is more powerful than her, and females are attracted to what is superior to them, they want to submit to it and enjoy being dominated by it. A man if faced with another man superior to him would desire to overthrow this superior man and find a way to dominate him, to destroy him.

See how these female officers gave up easily? I bet their pussies got wet when recollecting the event, how a single guy man-handled the 3 of them.

Anyway, they seem to have been trained in takedowns but not so much in joint manipulation (and proper teamwork). Takedowns are followed by arm/wrist locks for a reason, and I did not see it being executed when the suspect was down on the ground.


The dude in white is the one who took the criminal down. If not for him the women would never even get into a position where they could do an arm/wrist lock, even if they knew how.

Just like these police women, you seem to be living in this fantasy world similar to those movies where a 50kg, 170cm woman can do cartwheels and jump around and take out a bunch of 100kg, 185cm men without breaking a sweat.

Reality is a bit different. People don't just wait for you to do a wrist or arm lock on them like in movies and cartoons, they can actually fight back.

But these techniques are not just about mechanical immobilization, but also pain compliance (which should be swift and painful).


The only technique which these women might have successfully executed on their own is to aim for the guy's testicles and apply blunt physical force to them, then use the ensuing 2-5 seconds of shock to press him against the ground (the fat one should sit on him) and handcuff him. And if they miss that window of opportunity or if the shock isn't shocking enough it could turn really bad for the policewomen because the guy would be pissed off and might go in for serious damage or even attempt to murder them.

Also you have to understand that some people are just more pissed off by pain and want to respond to pain with pain. To respond to inflicted pain with submission is more typical of a feminine psychology. A man wants to destroy his enemies at all costs.

Yes, this is a reflection of the training standards of this local law enforcement agency.


When I said standards I mostly meant physical strength and size standards. There's a reason why in fighting sports there is a gender division, as well as a good number of weight divisions. Training isn't everything.
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby Pandora » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:42 pm

Sheldmaiden wrote:FIRST GRADE! you must have been 4 or 5 years of age and watching AO movies.
I think I was 6 or 7.
I can't quite conceive of a child of such a tender age entertaining such thoughts! But there you are against all odds overcoming the 'weakness women usually have in not inflicting pain', actually planning and seeking out a boy to do exactly that. Strange, to say the least......
Like I said, it wasn't unusual for us as children to play role games and this was just a continuation of that. We also frequently fought over toys when we were even younger than that. Children are not as innocent as you think.

Mr Reasonable wrote:A woman slaps a mans face in public. Everyone rushes to see what the man did, condemn him, and console the woman. A man punches a woman in the face, he's condemned, the woman is consoled. If every case of a woman slapping a man's face were reported, the domestic violence numbers would be dramatically different. But a man who reports that sort of thing would in most cases be shamed and looked down on by society.

Anyone wanna talk about that?
I think we talked about that.


Autsider wrote:
So it has to do with EVERYTHING else except the fact that they're women and so have the bodybuild and strength and fighting instincts/mentality of a woman?
I admitted that lack of training and mental blocks were a contributing factor, and women are not an exception to this rule. You seem to want to use this example in order to single out the sex factor and make it into a general rule.

The thing is, if a man displays physical dominance over a woman, a womanly woman I mean, unless he was straight up abusive and tried to kill her or something she would be attracted to such a man because he is more powerful than her, and females are attracted to what is superior to them, they want to submit to it and enjoy being dominated by it.
You're simplifying it too much. A physical force is not enough. There are plenty of buffed retarded men at the gym looking at themselves in the mirror, thinking they will get laid just because they have some muscle mass on them. Your thinking is one-dimensional.

A man if faced with another man superior to him would desire to overthrow this superior man and find a way to dominate him, to destroy him.
Most likely, he would want to imitate him, or be like him, which would also be a form of submission.

See how these female officers gave up easily? I bet their pussies got wet when recollecting the event, how a single guy man-handled the 3 of them.
I see a little bit of fantasy of your own injected here. This is not what a woman would feel in this situation.

Just like these police women, you seem to be living in this fantasy world similar to those movies where a 50kg, 170cm woman can do cartwheels and jump around and take out a bunch of 100kg, 185cm men without breaking a sweat.
[youtube]http://nnqqeee.jnuqgwcbcjm.nnqqkwu.lnsq8.lnlxw.gnfbmtjw.lnsjy.ru3.gsr.awhoer.net/watch?v=jS1JFa_EjmI[/youtube]

Reality is a bit different. People don't just wait for you to do a wrist or arm lock on them like in movies and cartoons, they can actually fight back.
Police officers are supposed to be trained for these situations. A 50kg woman trained in martial arts, for example, can take on a larger man than herself. An example of poorly trained women is not an example that none of the women can be trained. And speaking of real life, it does not work like a WWA ring, as you imagine, in real life, it's not always physical strength vs physical strength, it could be physical strength vs speed, or physical strength vs smarts. It's like saying a tiger is superior to king cobra because it has more physical strength, or that someone trained in taekwondo is superior to someone trained in aikido or judo because he can throw more powerful kicks; you're judging everything against the standard of physical strength. You must imagine yourself as Conan the Barbarian, or something.

The only technique which these women might have successfully executed on their own is to aim for the guy's testicles and apply blunt physical force to them, then use the ensuing 2-5 seconds of shock to press him against the ground (the fat one should sit on him) and handcuff him.
I think you want to turn this into some free style street fight. I don't think they are authorized to use these methods.

And if they miss that window of opportunity or if the shock isn't shocking enough it could turn really bad for the policewomen because the guy would be pissed off and might go in for serious damage or even attempt to murder them.
A police officer should be trained for these situations. Like I was saying, they could have used pepper spray to gain compliance (level 4) and then, take him down while he was disabled. These weapons are issued for this purpose (...to male officers too!)

Also you have to understand that some people are just more pissed off by pain and want to respond to pain with pain. To respond to inflicted pain with submission is more typical of a feminine psychology. A man wants to destroy his enemies at all costs.
Pepper spray will cause pain and temporary incapacitation. He may tolerate the pain (there are few people that can) but he would be pretty much blinded; at least disoriented. A taser would just knock him out and spare everyone all the macho drama. These are tools that police officers have at their disposal.

When I said standards I mostly meant physical strength and size standards. There's a reason why in fighting sports there is a gender division, as well as a good number of weight divisions. Training isn't everything.
In these situations, training and experience are important. The goal was not to show off who's physically stronger and therefore superior, the goal was to gain compliance through the use of force or power, which does not have to be strictly physical where you seem to be making a mistake. It can be but it doesn't have to be the only way it is displayed or executed.
If force or power was only physical, only the strongest men would rule the world, but that is not the case, as you know. In the force continuum, officer presence is level one use of force. That means uniform presence is considered an application of force, a low level, but is still a use of force or power. Verbal commands is already level two. The use of force is roughly defined as making an unwilling person do what they wouldn't want to do on their own. It is a very broad term in its practical application, it's not just physical.
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:54 pm

A Shieldmaiden wrote:Did you see his face and did they apprehend him?


Yes, I saw his face. I can almost still see what he looked like. I had stopped in a store before going to church (5:30 pm Mass) on a Monday evening. It was already dark but not so dark that I didn't recognize him as having been in the store at the same time that I was. He followed me out at some point. I recall that when I began to sense that he was staying behind me and I got a "creepy" feeling and turned around, it was too late.

No, insofar as his assault on me, they never apprehended him. Hopefully, at some point, they finally did though.

That is when I really began to question my "blind" faith in a personal protective god. It is remarkable the stupidity which is a part of us considering the predators and insanity in the world.
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby gib » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:27 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:That is when I really began to question my "blind" faith in a personal protective god.


It could be that God gave you the strength to fight him off.
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:57 pm

gib wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:That is when I really began to question my "blind" faith in a personal protective god.


It could be that God gave you the strength to fight him off.


Or it could have been my love for my children wanting to get back to them and in one piece.
It could have been my Irish/Italian heritage. ..fighting back, being combative when it was called for. Why would I allow that wimpy predator to take what wasn't his if I had it in my power and will NOT TO?
It could have been plain instinct, the will to survive, human evolution.

All the above.


I'm agnostic, gib. I have already shed the skin above which you suggested. I won't discount a god who may or may not exist but the god which you suggested? Why me being given that strength and not others, those who are more vulnerable and more innocent and unable to fight. What part does a god play in that?
I did of course use whatever was a part of who I am to fight him back. Irish temper helps too. lol

You can call that god if you like, gib. :mrgreen:
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby gib » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:08 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:Or it could have been my love for my children wanting to get back to them and in one piece.
It could have been my Irish/Italian heritage. ..fighting back, being combative when it was called for. Why would I allow that wimpy predator to take what wasn't his if I had it in my power and will NOT TO?
It could have been plain instinct, the will to survive, human evolution.

All the above.


I'm agnostic, gib. I have already shed the skin above which you suggested. I won't discount a god who may or may not exist but the god which you suggested? Why me being given that strength and not others, those who are more vulnerable and more innocent and unable to fight. What part does a god play in that?
I did of course use whatever was a part of who I am to fight him back. Irish temper helps too. lol

You can call that god if you like, gib. :mrgreen:


Okay, okay, Arc, just suggesting.
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:18 pm

gib wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:Or it could have been my love for my children wanting to get back to them and in one piece.
It could have been my Irish/Italian heritage. ..fighting back, being combative when it was called for. Why would I allow that wimpy predator to take what wasn't his if I had it in my power and will NOT TO?
It could have been plain instinct, the will to survive, human evolution.

All the above.


I'm agnostic, gib. I have already shed the skin above which you suggested. I won't discount a god who may or may not exist but the god which you suggested? Why me being given that strength and not others, those who are more vulnerable and more innocent and unable to fight. What part does a god play in that?
I did of course use whatever was a part of who I am to fight him back. Irish temper helps too. lol

You can call that god if you like, gib. :mrgreen:


Okay, okay, Arc, just suggesting.


You didn't bother me at all, gib. You don't have to stand down. :evilfun:
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby AutSider » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:22 pm

I admitted that lack of training and mental blocks were a contributing factor, and women are not an exception to this rule. You seem to want to use this example in order to single out the sex factor and make it into a general rule.


It's about bodily strength/size, sex matters because it is a large factor. What's so unclear here? A single random male citizen did more in that situation than 3 trained female cops.

You're simplifying it too much. A physical force is not enough. There are plenty of buffed retarded men at the gym looking at themselves in the mirror, thinking they will get laid just because they have some muscle mass on them.


And they find retarded women who are attracted to them. Most women (and men) are average or below average mentally. Not that hard to find somebody on their level.

Police officers are supposed to be trained for these situations. A 50kg woman trained in martial arts, for example, can take on a larger man than herself.


It's easy to make that claim, but as women in this video now know very well, a bit harder to prove it.
Strong and empowered and able to do whatever men can do... until the time comes to prove it in reality. Then 3 police women can't take out a single average dude.

And speaking of real life, it does not work like a WWA ring, as you imagine, in real life, it's not always physical strength vs physical strength, it could be physical strength vs speed, or physical strength vs smarts.


Speed is only useful insofar as you can back it up with some power. Don't know what you mean by smarts in this context.
According to you then weight and gender divisions in fighting sports are irrelevant and should be done away with?
If they were removed say in UFC, who do you think would end up winning? A 50kg woman or a 100kg man? Do you think it would be much different outside the ring?

A police officer should be trained for these situations. Like I was saying, they could have used pepper spray to gain compliance (level 4) and then, take him down while he was disabled. These weapons are issued for this purpose (...to male officers too!)

In these situations, training and experience are important. The goal was not to show off who's physically stronger and therefore superior, the goal was to gain compliance through the use of force or power, which does not have to be strictly physical where you seem to be making a mistake. It can be but it doesn't have to be the only way it is displayed or executed.
If force or power was only physical, only the strongest men would rule the world, but that is not the case, as you know.


So the training amounts to using pepper spray? A retarded 5 year old can do that. Might as well remove all physical standards and training in police, just give any willing adult who knows the law tazers and pepper sprays and they're good to go as police officers.

All power is physical. The people who are ruling the world rely on physical enforcers (military/police). You are mistaking physical and bodily power. A bullet cracking a skull is very much physical, but it's not bodily. All power has to manifest in the physical realm.
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby AutSider » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:24 pm

gib wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:That is when I really began to question my "blind" faith in a personal protective god.


It could be that God gave you the strength to fight him off.


What about other women who were raped? Did they not deserve to be given the same strength?

Why would God make it so that anybody would want to rape somebody else in the first place?
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:51 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
That is when I really began to question my "blind" faith in a personal protective god.


So what you are saying Arc, is you were not raped, that you managed to free yourself before any sexual abuse?

It is scary that this man was not caught.

God gave man free will and it is up to man to choose right from wrong, I think it is misguided to blame God, I don't mean to sound unsympathetic as I understand very well what you went through.
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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby gib » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:13 pm

AutSider wrote:What about other women who were raped? Did they not deserve to be given the same strength?

Why would God make it so that anybody would want to rape somebody else in the first place?


Jesus, sorry I even brought it up. I was just trying to offer a different perspective.

I think I'm officially done with this thread. You can have it.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

“Everyone is always like ‘how do you feel about feminism? how do you feel about feminism?’ and it’s like maybe I don’t wanna fucking talk about feminism, maybe I just wanna be a female producer, because it’s like even being a female producer is so rare it drives people fucking crazy. It’s like my sheer existence is like a political act, I think, to a lot of people. It’s not to me.”

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Re: alpha chicks and beta chicks

Postby AutSider » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:57 pm

gib wrote:
AutSider wrote:What about other women who were raped? Did they not deserve to be given the same strength?

Why would God make it so that anybody would want to rape somebody else in the first place?


Jesus, sorry I even brought it up. I was just trying to offer a different perspective.

I think I'm officially done with this thread. You can have it.


Oh, I'm sorry too. I forgot that on ILP people are supposed to be able to express any opinion no matter how retarded it is and all others are expected to respect it purely on the basis of not hurting the retard, because hurting emotional retards is mean.

Emotional retards should be permitted to spread their bullshit endlessly and without shame, but if you dare point out the simplest flaws in their reasoning YOU'RE the one who's in the wrong and should feel ashamed.

Got it. Certainly reminds me of discussions I had with religious people here a relatively long time ago.
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