Change implies mutation ... metamorphosis

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Change implies mutation ... metamorphosis

Postby pilgrim_tom » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:31 am

metamorphosis.jpg
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Some time ago I suggested humanity is a "work in progress" using the life stages of a butterfly as nature pointing us in that direction.

Not a lot of beauty and grace in a caterpillar ... nor a lot of potential for same if we didn't know about the life cycle of a butterfly ... yet ... in time the (un)attractiveness of the caterpillar becomes the grace and beauty of a butterfly.
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Re: Change implies mutation ... metamorphosis

Postby pilgrim_tom » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:51 am

Perhaps the monarch butterfly has something to teach us ...

Wikipedia

Monarch butterflies (Danaus plexippus) perform annual migrations across North America which have been called "one of the most spectacular natural phenomena in the world".[1]

Starting in September and October, eastern/northeastern populations migrate from southern Canada and the United States to overwintering sites in central Mexico where they arrive around November. They start the return trip in March, arriving around July. No individual butterfly completes the entire round trip; female monarchs lay eggs for the next generation during the northward migration[2] and at least four generations are involved in the annual cycle.


Begs the question ... How do the four successive generations of the monarch butterfly learn their position and purpose on the migration path?

Reminds me of the Chinese myth ... Yu Gong Yi Shan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DUgQw4wSgI

Wikipedia
The myth concerns a Foolish Old Man of 90 years who lived near a pair of mountains (given in some tellings as the Taihang and the Wangwu Mountains, in Yu province). He was annoyed by the obstruction caused by the mountains and sought to dig through them with hoes and baskets. When questioned as to the seemingly impossible nature of his task, the Foolish Old Man replied that while he may not finish this task in his lifetime, through the hard work of himself, his children, and their children, and so on through the many generations, some day the mountains would be removed if he persevered. The gods in Heaven, impressed with his hard work and perseverance, ordered the mountains separated.[1]
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Re: Change implies mutation ... metamorphosis

Postby Uccisore » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:47 pm

The caterpillar has the better life, though.
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Re: Change implies mutation ... metamorphosis

Postby pilgrim_tom » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:29 am

Uccisore wrote:The caterpillar has the better life, though.


Awesome insight Ucc !

You just explained why there is so much resistance to change ... so much fear of metamorphosis. :-)
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Change implies mutation ... metamorphosis

Postby Amorphos » Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:06 pm

Some time ago I suggested humanity is a "work in progress" using the life stages of a butterfly as nature pointing us in that direction.


Perhaps it simply takes what the world is, such to ‘make’ things. Something akin to the universe being a machine that makes stuff, then once made it is job done and we ultimately arrive at the destination. My only problem with that notion put up against Christian theology, is that I cannot see how you can have this the world which is always incomplete, and the machine that builds things, and equally state that that same world will become immortal mans world in the resurrection. It seams you would have to change every facet of this world to make habitable by divine souls, or for it to be anything at all like heaven.
It would be far easier to just have a place where stuff gets made [earth], and another place where all made stuffs go [Elysium/heaven].
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Re: Change implies mutation ... metamorphosis

Postby pilgrim_tom » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:18 am

Amorphos wrote:
Some time ago I suggested humanity is a "work in progress" using the life stages of a butterfly as nature pointing us in that direction.


Perhaps it simply takes what the world is, such to ‘make’ things. Something akin to the universe being a machine that makes stuff, then once made it is job done and we ultimately arrive at the destination. My only problem with that notion put up against Christian theology, is that I cannot see how you can have this the world which is always incomplete, and the machine that builds things, and equally state that that same world will become immortal mans world in the resurrection. It seams you would have to change every facet of this world to make habitable by divine souls, or for it to be anything at all like heaven.
It would be far easier to just have a place where stuff gets made [earth], and another place where all made stuffs go [Elysium/heaven].


Perhaps the "world making things" is a strategy for teaching humanity about the universe ... humanity appears to have unbridled confidence in our ability to do a better job than nature in making things ... coupled with a stubborn addiction to our physical realm.

For example ... one might argue that the human mind is recreating itself in our physical reality with "things".
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Change implies mutation ... metamorphosis

Postby pilgrim_tom » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:44 am

A. ... it was uncharitable of me not to respond to your resurrection story comments.

As I understand it ... the notion of an "after life" was just emerging at the time of the resurrection story.

Surreptitious's astute comment in another OP ... "a desire to solve existing problems" ... perhaps points to the answer.

Some of the spiritual leaders of the day desired the notion of "after life" to sink deeper into human consciousness ... their desire to "solve an existing problem" may have lead to the creation of the resurrection story.

Perhaps the resurrection story has outlived it's useful life ... OTH the purpose underpinning it's creation lives on ... quite vigorously. How many stories and human experiences completely outside the resurrection story have emerged in the past 2,000 years in support of the notion of "after life"?
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Re: Change implies mutation ... metamorphosis

Postby Amorphos » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:51 am

Perhaps the "world making things" is a strategy for teaching humanity about the universe


To what end? given that the world which inhabits souls is not the universe. We can certainly learn about ourselves and each other, all the rudimentary stuff.

I agree there is a stubborn addiction to this world, yet we don’t know anything but it for sure.

Surreptitious's astute comment in another OP ... "a desire to solve existing problems" ... perhaps points to the answer.


As in ‘a desire to solve the problem of existing’? or in terms of existing, they thought this world was real, and so an eternity should be here. This could be true but I’d ask a few questions first. Consider transience, that there are no examples >in existence< of completeness, of any object entirely whole. How can say the tactile physical sense, fully know and be one with what it comes into contact with ~ given there is no actual contact. My vision of otherworlds is that everything is direct, instead of dilated.
All of which brings us back round to the question, is existence the most real reality? Ergo an immortal but earthly life is the lesser, indirect experience.

How many stories and human experiences completely outside the resurrection story have emerged in the past 2,000 years in support of the notion of "after life"?


Quite a lot of history in the east. The problem surely is in what this world is like? Then if we add faith [mine is probably different to others] in that a higher intelligence would want us to be made and then for there to be a result, something which turns all the negatives positive and makes it all make sense. Or even that reality has an eternal spin, ergo the sandman concept [existence/oneness/existence][0,1,0][life/death/life].
The truth is naked,
Once it is written it is lost.
Genius is the result of the entire product of man.
The cosmic insignificance of humanity, shows the cosmic insignificance of a universe without humanity.
the fully painted picture, reveals an empty canvas
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Re: Change implies mutation ... metamorphosis

Postby pilgrim_tom » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:00 am

A. thank you for your thoughtful and thought provoking comments.

Amorphos wrote:
Perhaps the "world making things" is a strategy for teaching humanity about the universe


To what end?


As preparation for our journey "home" ... back to where we came from. I like Zhuang Zi's description of this "journey". Re-reading it today ... it sounds a bit like the Sandman [0,1,0]

"When Zhuangzi's wife died, Huizi came to the house to join in the rites of mourning. To his surprise he found Zhuangzi sitting with an inverted bowl on his knees, drumming upon it and singing a song.

"After all," said Huizi, "she lived with you, brought up your children, grew old with you. That you should not mourn for her is bad enough, but to let your friends find you drumming and singing--that is going too far!"

"You misjudge me," said Zhuangzi. "When she died, I was in despair, as any man well might be. But soon, pondering on what had happened, I told myself that in death no strange new fate befalls us. In the beginning, we lack not life only, but form. Not form only, but spirit. We are blended in one great featureless indistinguishable mass. Then a time came when the mass evolved spirit, spirit evolved form, form evolved life. And now life in its turn has evolved death. For not nature only but man's being has its seasons, its sequence of spring and autumn, summer and winter. If someone is tired and has gone to lie down, we do not pursue him with shouting and bawling. She whom I have lost has lain down to sleep for a while in the Great Inner Room. To break in upon her rest with the noise of lamentation would but show that I knew nothing of nature's Sovereign Law. That is why I ceased to mourn."



Amorphos wrote:I agree there is a stubborn addiction to this world, yet we don’t know anything but it for sure.


Perhaps we are inadvertently prolonging the period of "unknowing" with our fear of metamorphosis ... though this is not my view. I subscribe to Lao Zi's suggestion ... paraphrasing ... never dare try to get ahead of the world.

Amorphos wrote:As in ‘a desire to solve the problem of existing’? or in terms of existing,


I understood Surreptitious's comment to be more pragmatic ... perhaps I misunderstood him.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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