Kinship

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Kinship

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:10 am

The notion of kinship ... in it's broadest sense ... family, friends, colleagues and so on ... is a human construct.
The Chinese sages ... 2,500 years ago... believed there is no kinship (filial piety)at birth ... it must be taught and reinforced with rigid rituals ... at that time they were obsessed with the propriety of ritual ... in Chinese ... "li".

The Chinese are currently celebrating one of the oldest and most subscribed to of their ancient rituals ... "Spring Festival". Global awareness of this particular Chinese ritual is growing.

Culture by definition is a collection of rituals ... rituals that evolved and cross pollinated with other cultures over millenium in all geographies. Another word for this collection of rituals is "civilization".

The questions that beg to be asked are:
1) Why is ritual so central to the everyday life of humans ... why is it necessary to constantly establish and reinforce a "bond" between/among individuals with ritual?
2) Is the human species fated to perpetuate this paradigm forever?

Last year was the Chinese year of the "Fire Monkey" ... monkey symbolizing mischief ... the addition of the word "fire" seems to portend amplified mischief.

This year is the Chinese year of the "Fire Rooster" ... the rooster symbolizing the dawn of a new day. Perhaps the addition of the word "fire" portends the dawn of a new era ... a new epoch of humanity.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Kinship

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:56 am

Pilgrim wrote
The notion of kinship ... in it's broadest sense ... family, friends, colleagues and so on ... is a human construct.


Then we are robots already, the animal in us is dead?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Kinship

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:26 am

WendyDarling wrote:Pilgrim wrote
The notion of kinship ... in it's broadest sense ... family, friends, colleagues and so on ... is a human construct.


Then we are robots already, the animal in us is dead?


WD ... you have such a way with words ... your choice of the word "robot" sums up the totality of my post ... other than leaving the door slightly open with the last sentence ... some say as long there is hope ...
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Kinship

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:28 am

Is Hope like a belief that can be fleeting or is it part of a person's essence, a driving force that calls for more Hope?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Kinship

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:31 am

I'm pretty fired up tonight Tom, so be forewarned.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Kinship

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:51 am

WendyDarling wrote:Is Hope like a belief that can be fleeting or is it part of a person's essence, a driving force that calls for more Hope?


WD ... perhaps it's both? ... in different circumstances.

My reference to hope is covered in the first half of your comment ... a belief that can be fleeting ... don't know anyone who can honestly say they never lost all hope ... at least temporarily ... many many times in their lives.

I really like how you expanded my understanding of the notion of hope ... "maybe it is part of a person's essence ... a driving force that calls for more Hope?"

The closest example I can think of is the notion of "validation" ... some people are able to get validation by hugging a tree ... seems like a "driving force" ... yes/no???
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Kinship

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:04 pm

Hope is an essential facet of my being and I haven't been without it really ever. Have been close to empty, but not empty. Close is bad enough. If Hope isn't natural to you and fed by you, then it can be extinguished fairly easily. For some, it isn't even on their radar, their easily emptied, overwhelmed by despair. Can Hope be a gift given?

Validation? I'm not following.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Kinship

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:22 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Hope is an essential facet of my being and I haven't been without it really ever. Have been close to empty, but not empty. Close is bad enough. If Hope isn't natural to you and fed by you, then it can be extinguished fairly easily. For some, it isn't even on their radar, their easily emptied, overwhelmed by despair. Can Hope be a gift given?

Validation? I'm not following.


My intention with the word "validation" and the example of a person feeling better after hugging a tree may answer your question ... "Can hope be a gift given?"

The tree ... which has life ... gives the "gift of hope" to the person hugging it ... it's the equivalent of a pat on the back by someone whom we respect. IMO ... validation is absolutely necessary in life ... yet ... fellow humans are not the sole source of validation.

It may be the "driving force" you mentioned.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Kinship

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:13 am

A gift instilled forever? That's what I meant to write. Sorry.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Kinship

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:10 am

WendyDarling wrote:A gift instilled forever? That's what I meant to write. Sorry.


I still feel the comments you wrote ... the accident :-) ... helped lead me to a somewhat different ... improved ... understanding of the notion of hope.

I'm still not clear on your intention ... do you mean hope as a gift instilled forever? ... hope as an innate characteristic ... like survival?
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Kinship

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:13 am

Can I light an eternal flame of Hope in others?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Kinship

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:03 am

WendyDarling wrote:Can I light an eternal flame of Hope in others?


no need ... the "eternal flame of Hope" is omnipresent.

Empirical evidence consistently confirms that periods ... however long ... of chaos, upheaval, turmoil ... pushing the masses to the brink of despair ... invariably something happens that restores peace, order and harmony ... usually on a higher spiritual plane ... until the next cycle starts it all over again.

OTH ... you may be destined to be a "torch bearer" in the vanguard of a substantial transformation of the human species.

I'm old enough to remember a chorus line from the rock band "Mamas and Papas" ... "the darkest hour is just before dawn"

One could make compelling arguments that we currently live in the 'darkest age' of all human history ... despite all the glitter and gadgetry. Such a thesis stems from mankind's unbridled confidence in science and general disdain ... lip service at best ... for anything spiritual.

If true ... we live in a decidedly exciting and interesting time ... we simply need lots of "torch bearers" to light the way forward ... no need for aggression or violence ... suggesting the time for patriarchal leadership is waning and the time has arrived for the feminine ... with ovaries or not. :-)
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Kinship

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:29 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Can I light an eternal flame of Hope in others?


Be careful about trying to do that, WendyDarling.
Some flames of hope need to be extinguished because they are more based in illusion than realty.
Some flames of hope need to be kindled or rekindled because they show great possibility.

It's kind of a "call all to mind" (Yeats) balancing act.
Hope is one of those things which can be both a curse AND a blessing.
It must be purified in the flames of consciousness and reflection and perhaps even non-sentimental compassion.


Just because "Hope Reigns Eternal" doesn't mean that it must.
Last edited by Arcturus Descending on Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Kinship

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:33 pm

WendyDarling wrote:I'm pretty fired up tonight Tom, so be forewarned.


WD ~~ the kiln. :mrgreen:
Let me see the beauty which you have created afterwards.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Kinship

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:00 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Is Hope like a belief that can be fleeting or is it part of a person's essence, a driving force that calls for more Hope?


Hope can certainly be structured on and born out of belief.

I think that it can be a part of a person's essence - some people are naturally optimistic in nature...great brain chemicals and genes handed down.

But I don't think that the above people see a silver lining at every turn. Their hope is born and bred through clearer lenses.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
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Re: Kinship

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:59 am

If
the "eternal flame of Hope" is omnipresent.


Why suicide? Why homicide? Why abuse the temple? Why anger? Why all the fear?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Kinship

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:25 am

WendyDarling wrote:If
the "eternal flame of Hope" is omnipresent.


Why suicide? Why homicide? Why abuse the temple? Why anger? Why all the fear?


Why does the sun come up each morning? Why is the sky blue? How the hell should I know?? :D

But since you asked ...

1) Some argue that Confucius's reluctance to discuss metaphysics with his followers stems from his fear of mass suicide.

2) Cain killed his brother Abel out of jealousy. Jealousy has been the fuel for so many human ills/weaknesses since time immemorial.

3) Frustration has driven people to madness since time immemorial ... people who believed the "eternal" resided in the body were stupid enough to believe mutilating the 'vessel' would reveal the "eternal".

4) There is nothing to fear but fear itself ... FDR. Fear is symbolic of the darkness ... mankind has been living in relative darkness since time immemorial ... fear has always been unavoidable.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Kinship

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:41 am



I have no idea, but it's beautiful so let's share a moment. :D It's playing on my youtube mix.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Kinship

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:44 am

Tom wrote
Frustration has driven people to madness since time immemorial ... people who believed the "eternal" resided in the body were stupid enough to believe mutilating the 'vessel' would reveal the "eternal".


It kind of does fit into a place within the flesh. The soul has proportions and placement in our physical bodies, but the soul body and the flesh body are cooperative but not liken one another.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Kinship

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:02 am

Tom? Did I scare him off Mags?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Kinship

Postby MagsJ » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:33 am

..probably making himself a coffee.. or a tea.. that's what I just did. :)
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Re: Kinship

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:44 am

WendyDarling wrote:Tom wrote
Frustration has driven people to madness since time immemorial ... people who believed the "eternal" resided in the body were stupid enough to believe mutilating the 'vessel' would reveal the "eternal".


It kind of does fit into a place within the flesh. The soul has proportions and placement in our physical bodies, but the soul body and the flesh body are cooperative but not liken one another.


Just finished listening to Divna Ljubojević Agni Partene ... awesome!! Thanks

agree absolutely ... IMO there is no way you can peel open the flesh to view the soul ... and the soul body is exponentially more superior ... brain/mind included.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Kinship

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:45 am

MagsJ wrote:..probably making himself a coffee.. or a tea.. that's what I just did. :)


... and out for a smoke too ... yikes such a vile habit eh!
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Kinship

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:28 pm

Tom,

the "eternal flame of Hope" is omnipresent.


I wasn't asking about it's potential in existence, I was asking about its specific location in each and every individual. Is Hope an actual embodiment, a sheathing of the soul? Obviously with abject violence and despair that sheathing is what, missing?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Kinship

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:31 pm

Tom wrote
... and out for a smoke too ... yikes such a vile habit eh!


I quit, but pine for it regularly.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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