What Of Your Essence?

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

Moderator: Only_Humean

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby Meno_ » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:01 pm

Maniacal Mongoose wrote:In terms of knowing yourself describe your essence.



See, here you are asking the old question, of differentiating the old triad, Being, essence, existence, which was laid down by Arab philosophers, where the essence, is layered meaning for the Soul. Aristoteles took it up in De Anima, it is a prefigured notion, just as self knowledge later, a developmental successor to a more 'scientific way' of looking at it.

You are asking the question of requiring levels of knowledge to correlate with each other, in this case old textual ideas such as the soul, with developing 'scientific' ways of thinking about them.

We may be much more alike then different, except in contexts where it is more advantageous to differentiate.

It is kind of like a Moebious Strip, where you'd never know where the essential and the real meet, because it's hard to see it unless the ends are separated in the first place.
Meno_
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2314
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby fuse » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:35 pm

Maniacal Mongoose wrote:fuse wrote
The soul, or the spirit, exists in the momentum of a person and his impact.


While this sentence above may mean 'in this lifetime', what is interesting is the momentum of a person in relation to other people and how can that be measured? The momentum of a person is very relevant in terms of all of their assets and how they use them, whether simply now or into infinity.

It only means "in this lifetime" by default since I'm not aware of any additional lifetimes. The question of lasting influence is still very interesting to me. A person's influence is broadly the continued affect he/she has on others, even after death, like an afterimage: an impression of a vivid sensation (especially a visual image) retained after the stimulus has ceased.
User avatar
fuse
Philosopher
 
Posts: 4510
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:13 pm

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:25 am

jerkey wrote:
Maniacal Mongoose wrote:In terms of knowing yourself describe your essence.



See, here you are asking the old question, of differentiating the old triad, Being, essence, existence, which was laid down by Arab philosophers, where the essence, is layered meaning for the Soul. Aristoteles took it up in De Anima, it is a prefigured notion, just as self knowledge later, a developmental successor to a more 'scientific way' of looking at it.

You are asking the question of requiring levels of knowledge to correlate with each other, in this case old textual ideas such as the soul, with developing 'scientific' ways of thinking about them.

We may be much more alike then different, except in contexts where it is more advantageous to differentiate.

It is kind of like a Moebious Strip, where you'd never know where the essential and the real meet, because it's hard to see it unless the ends are separated in the first place.


You had to go there with a Mobius Strip, didn't you? Now why does the old triad have to be differentiated? One is not enough? Once I recover from this headache caused by Mobius, onto De Anima by Aristotle.
Last edited by WendyDarling on Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6006
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:38 am

fuse wrote:
Maniacal Mongoose wrote:fuse wrote
The soul, or the spirit, exists in the momentum of a person and his impact.


While this sentence above may mean 'in this lifetime', what is interesting is the momentum of a person in relation to other people and how can that be measured? The momentum of a person is very relevant in terms of all of their assets and how they use them, whether simply now or into infinity.

It only means "in this lifetime" by default since I'm not aware of any additional lifetimes. The question of lasting influence is still very interesting to me. A person's influence is broadly the continued affect he/she has on others, even after death, like an afterimage: an impression of a vivid sensation (especially a visual image) retained after the stimulus has ceased.


Is this to be debated? :mrgreen:
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6006
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:37 am

Aristotle had the complexity of the soul all wrong.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6006
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby fuse » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:44 am

Maniacal Mongoose wrote:fuse wrote
The soul, or the spirit, exists in the momentum of a person and his impact.


Maniacal Mongoose wrote:
fuse wrote:
Maniacal Mongoose wrote:While this sentence above may mean 'in this lifetime', what is interesting is the momentum of a person in relation to other people and how can that be measured? The momentum of a person is very relevant in terms of all of their assets and how they use them, whether simply now or into infinity.

It only means "in this lifetime" by default since I'm not aware of any additional lifetimes. The question of lasting influence is still very interesting to me. A person's influence is broadly the continued affect he/she has on others, even after death, like an afterimage: an impression of a vivid sensation (especially a visual image) retained after the stimulus has ceased.


Is this to be debated? :mrgreen:

I'd rather sidestep the pomp and circumstance of a formal debate, but if you want to make a bold argument in a new thread - I'll happily counter at will.
User avatar
fuse
Philosopher
 
Posts: 4510
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:13 pm

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:21 pm

fuse wrote
I'd rather sidestep the pomp and circumstance of a formal debate, but if you want to make a bold argument in a new thread - I'll happily counter at will.


Okay. Keep your eyes peeled. :o :mrgreen:
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6006
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby mannequin » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:44 pm

My Essence?

Smiling on the premise of reality.
mannequin
 
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:35 pm

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:28 pm

MP,

Why do you keep trying to smell for blood in the water?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6006
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:30 pm

Maniacal Mongoose wrote:In terms of knowing yourself describe your essence.



For the sake of this thread, essence is your nature.


I'm like the ocean - ever changing, ebbing, flowing, wild, serene, much deep within and much observable above me. I contain much and much contains me. lol

An ad continuum of Fluidity!
Last edited by Arcturus Descending on Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 14798
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: Ecstasy on Earth.

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:31 pm

mannequin wrote:My Essence?

Smiling on the premise of reality.


Is that an essence or an attitude?
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 14798
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: Ecstasy on Earth.

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby gib » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:40 am

Arcturus Descending wrote:
mannequin wrote:My Essence?

Smiling on the premise of reality.


Is that an essence or an attitude?


Don't our attitudes define our essence?
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
- Rick Sanchez
User avatar
gib
little shitheaded Buddha
 
Posts: 8349
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: lost (don't try to find me)

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:04 am

Gibralter,

An essence is in stone so to speak, but I for one know that it can be tempered, just don't ask how.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6006
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby gib » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:50 am

Maniacal Mongoose wrote:An essence is in stone so to speak


Then it doesn't exist.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
- Rick Sanchez
User avatar
gib
little shitheaded Buddha
 
Posts: 8349
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: lost (don't try to find me)

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby fuse » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:10 am

gib wrote:Don't our attitudes define our essence?

Only if existence precedes essence.
User avatar
fuse
Philosopher
 
Posts: 4510
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:13 pm

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:22 am

Existence has always existed.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6006
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby fuse » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:04 pm

[The] existence [of a thing] precedes [its] essence.

For instance, take yourself, which has surely not always existed.
User avatar
fuse
Philosopher
 
Posts: 4510
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:13 pm

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby gib » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:30 pm

fuse wrote:
gib wrote:Don't our attitudes define our essence?

Only if existence precedes essence.


Which I think it does. I think a thing has to be presented to us first before we can project an essence onto it. We first get to know a person--get a taste for their attitude--and that for us defines who they are. This can be applied to one's self as well--we watch ourselves as we express or practice a certain attitude and this gets incorporated into our self-image.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
- Rick Sanchez
User avatar
gib
little shitheaded Buddha
 
Posts: 8349
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: lost (don't try to find me)

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:23 pm

#-o Essence is not surface personality traits, its your will exemplified through time, through eternity.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6006
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:17 pm

gib wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:
mannequin wrote:My Essence?

Smiling on the premise of reality.


Is that an essence or an attitude?


Don't our attitudes define our essence?


I'll have to give that some thought, brown eyes. I'm not so sure that they do though but I may be wrong.
Our attitudes do define our perceptions and beliefs.

But I think that essence goes deeper. It's who we are at our spiritual (not religious) core.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 14798
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: Ecstasy on Earth.

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:19 pm

Maniacal Mongoose wrote:#-o Essence is not surface personality traits, its your will exemplified through time, through eternity.


Will, for me, has to do with ego traits.
I'm not sure that our essence wills anything - it just IS in a sense.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 14798
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: Ecstasy on Earth.

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:36 pm

Arc wrote
But I think that essence goes deeper. It's who we are at our spiritual (not religious) core.


Your "will" or essence can have many characteristics, sides to it. It is the combination of those in effort that solidify in stone or you were made to be that way by your big sky daddy. Either way, in stone.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6006
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby gib » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:02 am

Maniacal Mongoose wrote:#-o Essence is not surface personality traits, its your will exemplified through time, through eternity.


What is the constant here that we're calling "essence"? Will? But the will changes over time--it becomes stronger/weaker, it wills different things. If it's the everlasting presence of a will, then there is nothing in one will to distinguish it from another.

I'm more partial to the "bundle" theory of the self--the theory that says we are, at any given moment, just the hodgepodge of mental content and persuasions and dispositions that make up our minds. There is no constant that underlies the flux.

There are things that repeat, however, things like tastes, preferences, memories, beliefs, values, hearing our name, seeing the same person every time we look in the mirror, and these in the abstract might be considered together to be our "essence".
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
- Rick Sanchez
User avatar
gib
little shitheaded Buddha
 
Posts: 8349
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: lost (don't try to find me)

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:10 am

You will different things or your will is distracted by different things?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6006
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby Pneumatic-Coma » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:07 am

gib wrote:There is no constant that underlies the flux.


......................Not even physics?
Ego sum via veritas et vita;Amesha Spenta;Vohu Mano;Joan of Arc, Ezekiel, and Thomas Aquinas;I AM INZYDEOUT:Zarathushtra Spitama-Thales-Heraclitus-Socrates-Meton of Athens-Plato-Diotima of Mantinea-Aristotle-Pythagoras-Pericles-Marcus Tullius Cicero-Claudius Ptolemy-Marcus Aurelius-Lucian- Hypatia-Niccolò Machiavelli-Benedito de Espinosa-Sir Isaac Newton-Voltaire-Jean-Jacques Rousseau-Immanuel Kant-Thomas Paine-John Locke-Henry David Thoreau-Florence Nightingale-Mahatma Gandhi-Peter G Bergmann-Petra Herrera-Oppenheimer-Jimmy Hoffa-Frank Sinatra-Pope Saint John Paul II-Elvis Aaron Presley-George Carlin-Martin Luther King Jr.-Jim Morrison-Aafia Siddiqui-Tupac-Asmaa Mahfouz-John Nash-Joaquin Guzman :shock: :arrow: :-$
User avatar
Pneumatic-Coma
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:10 am

PreviousNext

Return to The Sandbox



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users