What Of Your Essence?

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

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Re: What Of Your Essence?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:11 pm

encode_decode wrote:
    Arcturus Descending

    Arcturus Descending wrote:At the risk of sounding foolish, you don't really have a tiger cub, do you?

    That is actually not a foolish question at all. As far as I know, some people do keep them. I don't really have a tiger cub.

    When I saw the picture I was drawn to the Cub's eyes.


    You see innocence there. Do his eyes and body language tell you anything different or more?
    SAPERE AUDE!


    If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


    What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

    Thomas Nagel


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    Re: What Of Your Essence?

    Postby gib » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:26 am

    WendyDarling wrote:Great, how will you identify your constant? :-k


    idunno. If I identify something, I see its essence. <-- That would be its constant.
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    Re: What Of Your Essence?

    Postby WendyDarling » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:19 am

    What about you is constant?
    I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

    I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

    Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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    Re: What Of Your Essence?

    Postby encode_decode » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:12 pm

      Arcturus Descending

      Arcturus Descending wrote:I think that essence is a really difficult thing to define. encode_decide used the word *abstract* with regard to flow. I think that essence is also abstract. Perhaps as in abstract art, one needs to stand further away from it in order to see it more clearly or to experience it more clearly.

      WendyDarling wrote:You are getting hung up on extraneous, external change.


      I have decided to remain hung up on extraneous, external change for the time being.

      :D
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        Re: What Of Your Essence?

        Postby gib » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:55 pm

        WendyDarling wrote:What about you is constant?


        You mean what is my essence? I see myself every time I look in the mirror. I identify myself. I say: "That's gib." This happens every time. The next time I stand in front of the mirror, I will say: "Yep, still gib."

        But this identification is a recurrence. I sometimes pull away from the mirror and think of other things. The identification comes back only on occasion.

        As for the gib I've identified, I'm not sure he will stay the same gib forever. I may look in the mirror in 10 years from now and say: "That's not the same gib I used to be." Or I may not. I may *think* it's the same gib, but trust me, I will have changed.
        My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

        It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
        Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
        - surreptitious75

        The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
        - encode_decode

        Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
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        Re: What Of Your Essence?

        Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:11 pm

        My constant is my Ich und Du love relationship with the universe which includes nature - the above and below. I cannot see that as ever changing.
        The universe is my Lover and I am the Universe's. I and Thou.
        SAPERE AUDE!


        If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


        What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

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        Re: What Of Your Essence?

        Postby encode_decode » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:58 pm

          Arcturus Descending

          Arcturus Descending wrote:My constant is my Ich und Du love relationship with the universe which includes nature - the above and below. I cannot see that as ever changing.
          The universe is my Lover and I am the Universe's. I and Thou.

          That is beautiful. I like the way you think.

          :D
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            Re: What Of Your Essence?

            Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:02 pm

            encode_decode wrote:
              Arcturus Descending

              Arcturus Descending wrote:My constant is my Ich und Du love relationship with the universe which includes nature - the above and below. I cannot see that as ever changing.
              The universe is my Lover and I am the Universe's. I and Thou.



              That is beautiful. I like the way you think.

              :D


              Thank you. And where do those thoughts come from, encode_decode? :evilfun:
              SAPERE AUDE!


              If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


              What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

              Thomas Nagel


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              Re: What Of Your Essence?

              Postby encode_decode » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:11 pm

                Arcturus Descending

                Arcturus Descending wrote:Thank you. And where do those thoughts come from, encode_decode? :evilfun:

                Umm . . . quite possibly a beautiful mind . . . what do you think Arcturus Descending?

                :evilfun:
                It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                - which is to say there is always meaning.

                (gib - 2017)

                Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                (Myself - 2017)
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                Re: What Of Your Essence?

                Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:30 pm

                encode_decode wrote:
                  Arcturus Descending

                  Arcturus Descending wrote:Thank you. And where do those thoughts come from, encode_decode? :evilfun:

                  Umm . . . quite possibly a beautiful mind . . . what do you think Arcturus Descending?

                  :evilfun:


                  :evilfun: Thank you again, encode_decode, but I was referring to a much deeper place though the mind does touch down and affect everything.

                  I was considering sensations of the Heart. But then again, a sense of qualia come from both, right?
                  SAPERE AUDE!


                  If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


                  What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

                  Thomas Nagel


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                  Re: What Of Your Essence?

                  Postby encode_decode » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:51 pm

                  Arcturus Descending wrote:I was referring to a much deeper place though the mind does touch down and affect everything.

                  I was considering sensations of the Heart. But then again, a sense of qualia come from both, right?

                  I speak in terms of spirit - and heart - qualia in terms of conscious and conscience - I would say all three is where your Ich und Du love relationship is coming from.
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                    Re: What Of Your Essence?

                    Postby encode_decode » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:58 pm

                    I was saving this for another occasion but I will put it here too:

                      I also have reason to believe that the universe is intelligent - just not as we know it - whether it is aware of us in a way that we are used to being aware is unknown to me. Our awareness seems to boil down to reality, logic and emotions. The universe might experience these properties in a much different way. The fact that love is a fact of life may even suggest that the universe understands love - just not in a way that we are able to comprehend. Everything that we experience may be much different in the universe's experience. The universe and everything in it has a tendency to organize itself. A star system is just an organization of configured and evolved objects that displace the area that they occupy. A planet is configured and a star evolves.
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                    Re: What Of Your Essence?

                    Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:13 pm

                    encode_decode wrote:I was saving this for another occasion but I will put it here too:

                      I also have reason to believe that the universe is intelligent - just not as we know it - whether it is aware of us in a way that we are used to being aware is unknown to me. Our awareness seems to boil down to reality, logic and emotions. The universe might experience these properties in a much different way. The fact that love is a fact of life may even suggest that the universe understands love - just not in a way that we are able to comprehend. Everything that we experience may be much different in the universe's experience. The universe and everything in it has a tendency to organize itself. A star system is just an organization of configured and evolved objects that displace the area that they occupy. A planet is configured and a star evolves.
                    [-o<


                    That was beautiful and I do agree with you ~~ the Universe can be seen to be intelligent in the way in which it is structured, evolves and operates. It boggles my mind but perhaps that is just because I do not much understand its *workings*. This is why I remain an agnostic.
                    We can never know but we can have such an experience of *not* knowing that it becomes beautiful to us.

                    As for the rest, I have also intuited what you say but I find that there is just such a veil before my eyes that so much is left hidden but again I have the experience of it and that I am somehow loved by the Universe.

                    I truly sense as Shakespeare said through Hamlet that "there are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio,than are dreamt of in your philosophy [science]". Even though so much less was known in Shakespeare's time, I can say that even today he might be uttering these same words with what has become known to us.
                    SAPERE AUDE!


                    If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


                    What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

                    Thomas Nagel


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                    Re: What Of Your Essence?

                    Postby WendyDarling » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:43 pm

                    Would an intelligent universe favor some essences over others or would they all have their place in purpose?
                    I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

                    I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

                    Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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                    Re: What Of Your Essence?

                    Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:55 pm

                    WendyDarling wrote:Would an intelligent universe favor some essences over others or would they all have their place in purpose?


                    I don't know, Wendy. I do intuit that we all have our place. It's just a matter of finding it or knowing it. That is not an easy thing to discover. This I know from experience.

                    I think that it might all come down to paying attention, listening and being grateful.

                    Do we all appreciate and respect the gifts that have been placed right before our eyes?

                    I think that it might ALSO come down to how in tune we are with our Universe.
                    SAPERE AUDE!


                    If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


                    What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

                    Thomas Nagel


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                    Re: What Of Your Essence?

                    Postby encode_decode » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:03 am

                      WendyDarling

                      That is profound questioning. I am not sure that I know either, but I will point a few things out.

                      WendyDarling wrote:Would an intelligent universe favor some essences over others or would they all have their place in purpose?

                      There are destructive forces in the universe and there are constructive forces in the universe. If what is known was once unknown then it could be the case that some things that have become known(through a constructive force) may become unknown again(through a destructive force).

                      You could say from this that everything has its place including essences - but that would be saying that a place is only temporary . . .

                      . . . and that an essence can fade . . .

                      In the realm of the divine, I think that an essence would last forever - but as Arcturus Descending is known for saying - I could be wrong here.
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                        Re: What Of Your Essence?

                        Postby encode_decode » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:15 am

                          Arcturus Descending

                          Arcturus Descending wrote:I truly sense as Shakespeare said through Hamlet that "there are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio,than are dreamt of in your philosophy [science]". Even though so much less was known in Shakespeare's time, I can say that even today he might be uttering these same words with what has become known to us.

                          I could nearly guarantee that Shakespeare would be uttering those same words in ten thousand years time.
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                            Re: What Of Your Essence?

                            Postby encode_decode » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:30 am

                              gib

                              If your essence is constant - that means it lasts forever.

                              gib wrote:You mean what is my essence? I see myself every time I look in the mirror. I identify myself. I say: "That's gib." This happens every time. The next time I stand in front of the mirror, I will say: "Yep, still gib."

                              But this identification is a recurrence. I sometimes pull away from the mirror and think of other things. The identification comes back only on occasion.

                              As for the gib I've identified, I'm not sure he will stay the same gib forever. I may look in the mirror in 10 years from now and say: "That's not the same gib I used to be." Or I may not. I may *think* it's the same gib, but trust me, I will have changed.

                              As for the gib you've identified - you appear to be saying that he will have changed. Are you saying that the gib you've identified is different to the essence of gib? In other words - the gib that you are conscious of is different to the essence of gib. Am I perhaps misunderstanding what you are saying?
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                                Re: What Of Your Essence?

                                Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:33 pm

                                encode_ decode,

                                In the realm of the divine, I think that an essence would last forever - but as Arcturus Descending is known for saying - I could be wrong here.


                                lol It's nice that I can be known for saying something. :P

                                It's a good thing to remind ourselves that we do not have all the answers. The more we learn, the more we realize that we knew even less.
                                SAPERE AUDE!


                                If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


                                What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

                                Thomas Nagel


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                                Re: What Of Your Essence?

                                Postby encode_decode » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:06 pm

                                  Arcturus Descending

                                  Still there is a forever and it is the place where the constant is . . .

                                  Arcturus Descending wrote:lol It's nice that I can be known for saying something. :P

                                  I am sure you are known for saying a few things. People with character usually are.

                                  Arcturus Descending wrote:It's a good thing to remind ourselves that we do not have all the answers. The more we learn, the more we realize that we knew even less.

                                  But why do we not have all the answers? Just kidding. It does seem like the more we realize the less we know.

                                  Still I am on this essence thing - I feel there is a part of us which is permanent.
                                  It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
                                  (Anomaly654 - 2017)

                                  But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
                                  - which is to say there is always meaning.

                                  (gib - 2017)

                                  Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
                                  (Myself - 2017)
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                                  Re: What Of Your Essence?

                                  Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:17 pm

                                  Still I am on this essence thing - I feel there is a part of us which is permanent.

                                  Exactly and that permanent is eternal...life after death.
                                  I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

                                  I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

                                  Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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                                  Re: What Of Your Essence?

                                  Postby encode_decode » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:30 pm

                                    WendyDarling

                                    WendyDarling wrote:
                                    Still I am on this essence thing - I feel there is a part of us which is permanent.

                                    Exactly and that permanent is eternal...life after death.

                                    Like reincarnation?

                                    I always think to myself - OK we are here now - so there is no reason to believe that we have not been here before or we wont be here again.

                                    Like a rebirth.
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                                      Re: What Of Your Essence?

                                      Postby encode_decode » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:03 am

                                        Further thoughts

                                        I have been thinking about this more - actually I have been thinking about this for years - since I was a child.

                                        encode_decode wrote:
                                          WendyDarling

                                          WendyDarling wrote:
                                          Still I am on this essence thing - I feel there is a part of us which is permanent.

                                          Exactly and that permanent is eternal...life after death.

                                          Like reincarnation?

                                          I always think to myself - OK we are here now - so there is no reason to believe that we have not been here before or we wont be here again.

                                          Like a rebirth.

                                            I don't know whether it is my imagination but I have sensed over time that some people are offended by the word reincarnation, so I tend to not typically use it. If I have offended anyone then all I can do is offer an apology to each who were offended. This I have noticed for many years.

                                            I want to expand what I mean here - and keep in mind that this is just what I think.

                                            I always think to myself - OK we are here now - so there is no reason to believe that we have not been here before or we wont be here again.

                                            Like a rebirth. Well not exactly a rebirth or maybe that is what I mean.

                                            I mean that there is a part of us which stays the same forever. It is a part that helps us to reference ourselves after our awareness emerges. This part does not need our physical body to exist. It is timeless. After our physical body dies and we fall into the sleep of death - our final sleep for this life - this eternal part of us goes on.

                                            Not wanting to sound all spooky but eventually this eternal part finds a new host and we are born again - into the same universe? I am not certain - Into the same dimension? This I am also not certain of - after we die, we live again? I can feel it - hopefully I am right about it.

                                            And this what I feel - well - maybe that is my essence.
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                                              Re: What Of Your Essence?

                                              Postby WendyDarling » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:34 pm

                                              Well I for one am not offended. :mrgreen:

                                              You are right but the how this rebirth occurs is maddening in its shroud of mystery. Part of me believes that we live one life over and over until we get it right, another part says we live many lives in different host bodies, and the last part says both many repeated lives in many bodies, but why?

                                              Were we an alien race without any typically physical components? Did we invade Earth, homo sapient and overrun it by sheer force of our wills, our mental prowess?

                                              Evolution does not connect all the dots or make any sense regarding cognitive development, the great sudden advances in cognitive abilities nor does it look as if that will ever be rectified. We could be like the alien race in the movie, The Invasion Of The Body Snatchers, and that doesn't sit well with me.

                                              Why are our memories erased, kept Earth-bound? I have astral projected three times while fully awake and this realm is the only physical realm so far, but there are more realms, near a dozen in all that I am aware of. I would like to astral travel more but my psych. medications keep me too drugged up.

                                              Oh, it seems I forgot to take into account...time. How could you be you multiple times? How are you able to enter the time differentials of different realms? Yah, there's that mystery too.
                                              I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

                                              I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

                                              Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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                                              Re: What Of Your Essence?

                                              Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:40 pm

                                              encode_decode


                                              Still there is a forever and it is the place where the constant is .


                                              But can we in actuality say that THERE IS A FOREVER?
                                              How can we know this?
                                              So, if there is not, then our *constant* what we refer to as essence survives until Death.

                                              Why would anyone be offended that others believe or *see* reincarnation? Anything that can appear, rationally speaking, to be plausible or possible can be both plausible and possible.
                                              Those who ARE offended by the concept perhaps are/may be just too steeped in their own beliefs to allow for other possibilities and openness.

                                              It's not as though those who see the Possibility of R. are also saying that they can see witches flying on brooms in the sky.



                                              Arcturus Descending: It's a good thing to remind ourselves that we do not have all the answers. The more we learn, the more we realize that we knew even less.

                                              But why do we not have all the answers? Just kidding. It does seem like the more we realize the less we know.


                                              Why? I think that it is because our brains are much too puny (have not evolved), despite the brilliance of some, to take it all in at one time ~~ and to understand it. Besides, I intuit that the Universe is also a process like humanity is.
                                              Anyway, perhaps an Intelligent Universe realized how some would love and be amazed at the mysteries of life.


                                              Still I am on this essence thing - I feel there is a part of us which is permanent.


                                              Is every experience which we have ~~~ based on "reality" I mean real reality? lol
                                              I also feel that way at times especially when I am experiencing only being and stillness?

                                              Is that based on religious/spiritual belief or *actual* knowing (can there be such a thing?)
                                              SAPERE AUDE!


                                              If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


                                              What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

                                              Thomas Nagel


                                              I learn as I write!
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                                              Arcturus Descending
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