Clockwork Blue

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Jakob » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:32 pm

M - that made me laugh out loud. That's what im talking out.
That is Pluto moon opposed for ya.

Other aspect I remember from the glance is Saturn trine Neptune, which gives a very determined imagination. Can realize fantasies, but it takes time.

Must also have Saturn square Uranus. Conservative andcradical tendencies intertwine. Would be confused about being conservative or rebellious. Almost compossible to find place or direction politically. Yet crushing, grinding power in the houses involved.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Harbal » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:45 pm

Jakbo wrote:andcradical tendencies
Yes, I've always thought there was something strange about him.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:13 am

Jakob wrote:
Habral, I was an idiot _to_ do something specific. I know you're a fulltime idiot but still. Get it together. Most predictable attempt ever. No wonder SM thought it was funny. Congrats.
SM is another coward pike you, always on the sidelines, always thinking she is entitled to my company.


That deserves another :mrgreen:

I am thinking whether I should straighten you out or leave you in ignorance.

I will contribute something here on astrology and hope it gives you some insight.

Not yet, I am too busy, will get back to you, in the meantime don't bother consulting that crystal ball of yours, you are seriously deluded.

If you are really seriously deluded, join the circus or become a travelling Professor Marvel. BTW the resemblance is remarkable.

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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Jakob » Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:21 pm

Fellars and dames, internet is unavailable to me now except in public places. Hence the slow pace.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Jakob » Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:22 pm

SM , a lot of hard angles to cancer?
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Harbal » Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:32 pm

Jakob wrote:Fellars and dames, internet is unavailable to me now.
So is any semblance of credibility.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Jakob » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:06 pm

Uccisore - nice chart.
Moon conjunct Pluto in Libra, trine (harmonic with) Sun and Jupiter in Gemini. This would mean a quite indomitable will, very optimistic as well as at ease with the dark, the real currents of power.
Neptune opposed that Jupiter, oppositions being the most difficult to read, as they are a kind of super-processed conjunctions, this aspect would traditionally read as the more difficult one to master involving a lot of optimism that may be extremely excessive. With the trines to Jupiter and Pluto however its well supported.

Venus conjunct Mars in Aries, values and drives are close together - not a lot of confusion about what or whom you're going for. A dangerous aspect, shared with Sauwelios and Hitler - this conjunction, Hitler has it in Taurus, you in Aries.

Moon in Libra is bound to fairness, wants beauty, things to be right, believes that there is such a thing as right, feels it. With Pluto it feels where it is rooted.

Great tension through that Saturn Uranus square that all born around that year have - and in you it also squares (Saturn) and opposed (Uranus) Mercury in Taurus, making sure the intellect never escapes this tension and takes the long way, is happy to accept problems as such, slowly works at resolving them in the practical ways that present themselves - or so it would read to me right now, though this would all be accompanied by high stress levels that only resolve with experience.

It's a dark optimism, perhaps all the more truly optimistic for that.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Jakob » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:33 pm

Magnus, a bit more on that chart.

Venus in Aquarius, loosely opposed Saturn - Venus in Aquarius would be quite liberal in the passions, opposed Saturn that gives a lot of weight - oppositions are traditionally interpreted as 'bad', but I have found them to be the most awesome of aspects. Saturn Venus aspects are perhaps the best Venus aspects, somehow Venus turns Saturn into a warm blooded thing. Authority in matters of passion.

Sun in Capricorn is austere, business like, but sextile Utranus makes it very at ease with the unexpected.

But Venus also squares Jupiter in Taurus; this person knows what it is to be passionate, and very serious about aims and ideals. Knows how to take the long way ultimately - but would be impatient nonetheless.

Hm, Pallas first degree Virgo retrograde - kind of extremely acute but inward strategic - trining Mars late Sagittarius on Galactic center (Putin has that) and Chiron late Aries - this person would know a bit about violence, inflicting it, perhaps wounding the self a lot. Violent aspect that.

Jupiter makes a shitload of aspects. Biquintile to Mars, can summon great efficiency of action in the moment, in high pressure situations can do what others can't. Can turn situations around suddenly.

Can get extremely passionate and sharp about ideals all of a sudden, Neptune biquintile Vesta.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Uccisore » Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:02 pm

Jakob wrote:Uccisore - nice chart.
Moon conjunct Pluto in Libra, trine (harmonic with) Sun and Jupiter in Gemini. This would mean a quite indomitable will, very optimistic as well as at ease with the dark, the real currents of power.
Neptune opposed that Jupiter, oppositions being the most difficult to read, as they are a kind of super-processed conjunctions, this aspect would traditionally read as the more difficult one to master involving a lot of optimism that may be extremely excessive. With the trines to Jupiter and Pluto however its well supported.

Venus conjunct Mars in Aries, values and drives are close together - not a lot of confusion about what or whom you're going for. A dangerous aspect, shared with Sauwelios and Hitler - this conjunction, Hitler has it in Taurus, you in Aries.

Moon in Libra is bound to fairness, wants beauty, things to be right, believes that there is such a thing as right, feels it. With Pluto it feels where it is rooted.

Great tension through that Saturn Uranus square that all born around that year have - and in you it also squares (Saturn) and opposed (Uranus) Mercury in Taurus, making sure the intellect never escapes this tension and takes the long way, is happy to accept problems as such, slowly works at resolving them in the practical ways that present themselves - or so it would read to me right now, though this would all be accompanied by high stress levels that only resolve with experience.

It's a dark optimism, perhaps all the more truly optimistic for that.



A lot of this seems to fit. Indomintable will is obviously true, at least when it comes to resisting forces from without. The optimism aspect is interesting- I have to say my degree of optimism tends to depend on the time of day. I have a standing personal rule that I don't think about anything serious past 1 AM, because I tend to be super bleak and fatalistic about my life's problems late at night. Out walking in the sun though, I have a very different outlook. So it's hard, or impossible for me to say if I'd call myself an optimist on the whole. Other people would certainly describe me as optimistic, because other people mostly see me when I feel that way.

The bit about values and drives - very true when I was younger, a bit less so now as life gets complicated, but it still generally holds.

The last part is probably the most dead on- I experience a lot of stress when working through problems, but the stress doesn't doesn't make me back away from the problem or take shortcuts. It can be almost masochistic how much time I'll spend thinking about a problem that seems unimportant to others. The bit about letting problems be problems and looking for practical solutions applies more to my philosophy than dealing with my 'real life' issues. For real life issues, I am likely to obsess and work myself into a froth over it even if realistically there is nothing to be done but wait for more info.


That first part; my optimism being related to timing and such, reminds me of a question I was going to ask you. Suppose somebody has a personality disorder; would you expect their astrological profile to reflect this somehow, or would that disorder completely fuck the 'reading' or whatever you call this?
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Jakob » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:43 pm

Do you mean a person born with such an affliction?

In as far as astrology makes claims it makes them all the way. I mean, in as far as we take its claims seriously, we look at the whole of the persons existence. So a 'retard' by nativity would have severe afflictions to Mercury, Moon, likely, Saturn too probably. Or just very heavily on Sun.

Obviously the chart does not freeze when one is born, there are many ways in which to predict events and changes, one of which in particular frighteningly accurate, called the progressed moon chart. Any crises in the life will be neatly accompanied by very clear aspects. So if someone suddenly 'contracts' a great physiological problem, that will most definitely be reflected in the chart.

When it is given at birth, it will also be reflected in the mothers chart.
It is even more uncanny than anything how charts of family members intertwine. For example, my sun is on my fathers sun (2 degrees apart), my moon is on my sisters sun (4 degrees apart), my ascendant is on my sisters partners Sun (same exact degree) and by Saturn is on my mothers Saturn, my fortune on her Venus, in fact there is hardly any angle in my mothers chart that isn't also in mine.

My ex girlfriends Sun was on the same degree as my Venus. To name one of many aspects we shared.

Pezers chart and mine also greatly overlap, my north node on the same degree as his ascendant, his Jupiter on my Saturn, same degree, his Saturn on my Mars, one degree off, and a whole shitload more.

Odds for these things are very close to zero.
I think I could make billions with a dating site based on this, but the investment would be quite steep as I can not code.

Obviously, if astrology weren't strictly accurate, it would be bullshit. If astrology were only partly and sometimes right, it would never have caught my attention.

I would, as a son of a physicist raised in contempt of all concepts unverifiable, never have gotten so deep in astrology if its predictions weren't so uncannily accurate. When the progressed moon crosses a key point in the chart, some fundamental event connected to that point will transpire. There is no way out of it.

I can make life predictions for someone who gives me his full data. Not that I wish to but I am willing to do it to prove a point. As mentioned I will do it slowly, Im in a breakfast place where I uploaded the following video and checked my messages and ILP.

My fellow philosophers,



(The second half of this video may, if nothing else, please Magnus Anderson.)
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Jakob » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:11 pm

It was in fact the weirdness of things like astrology, several other forms of 'magic', that pushed me to investigate the frontiers of the logic that carries physics, and ultimately discover that there is a big factor that is taken for granted, namely the fact that things relate at all, that there is causality at all, that there is consistency in things relating. That this is not a logical given at all, that given its truth, there is an implication that things would rather have gradually fallen together so as to relate, before the consistency of the Newtonean machine could arise.

This gets very complex, essentially it brings about the periodic table as an end result, of a process in which many types of correspondences, micro and macro, were shaped so for as a coherent 'machinery', to be 'locked into itself' -- etcetera, this is the phenomenological terrain that value ontology addresses, the fact of correspondences, the fixedness of the universes elements co-responding; this is not a given but an acquired virtue of being, whereby it became cosmos.

Now if we see this as a sliding scale, rather than as a fixed requirement, it becomes thinkable that correspondences in general run much deeper than merely particles bumping into each other and bodies encircling each other, it becomes a web of relations so subtle and pervasive that no single quality escapes corresponding to the circumstances in which it came to arise; all things we can identify are proper objects, nothing is merely an accumulation of objects but itself only conditional, especially not qualities that are of fundamental importance to the motions of such an object, in the case of the human, his emotions, and other innate qualities that actually describe him 'as such', that is to say in his own terms.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Harbal » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:13 pm

Uccisore wrote: Suppose somebody has a personality disorder; would you expect their astrological profile to reflect this somehow, or would that disorder completely fuck the 'reading' or whatever you call this?
Possibly, but if the person doing the reading has one it will definitely fuck it up.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Jakob » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:32 pm

He can't stay away.
Get an existence of your own man.

Or make it at least a bit less clear how scared you are of this and give me your birthdate.
Everyone noticed how WWII ran off very quickly after I gave him the serious reading.

No one is going to take a skeptic seriously that doesnt even have the sense to offer the data he has at his disposal to falsify the theory.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Harbal » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:42 pm

Jakob wrote: Or make it at least a bit less clear how scared you are of this and give me your birthdate.
[/b]

What's the point? Lets just pretend that there's something in this rubbish and you could make an accurate analysis of me. You would only be telling me what I already know.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Uccisore » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:56 pm

Jakob wrote:Do you mean a person born with such an affliction?


Either/both. I don't think people know enough about what causes things like that for me to give a solid answer. There's a lot of personality disorders that SEEM to manifest early enough that we could say a kid had them from birth. But how do you know when people don't even have a personality for the first few years?

In as far as astrology makes claims it makes them all the way. I mean, in as far as we take its claims seriously, we look at the whole of the persons existence. So a 'retard' by nativity would have severe afflictions to Mercury, Moon, likely, Saturn too probably. Or just very heavily on Sun.

Obviously the chart does not freeze when one is born, there are many ways in which to predict events and changes, one of which in particular frighteningly accurate, called the progressed moon chart.


I don't know much about astrology, but this sort of outlines my confusion with it. Based on what you're saying here, it seems like there would be seasons/days in which retards wouldn't be born, and seasons/days in which tons of retards would be born. Though I was more thinking narcissists, psychopaths, and stuff like that when I brought it up- stuff for which predictions about optimism and values and such would have radically different answers. I'm picturing a nurse in a maternity ward looking at a nursery full of this week's or this evenings births, and thinking "There's a whole lot of future assholes/empaths/go-getters/optimists." It seems less plausible when you think of any given chart applying to a whole mess of people, instead of just the one you're talking to. Or to put it another way; there are people out there with a clinical diagnosis of some mental issue that basically means that they will never be optimistic about anything, ever. They're like Tony Soprano's Mom or whatever. Does astrology entail that none of them have the same birthdate as me? That strains my credulity to the point of snapping.

Any crises in the life will be neatly accompanied by very clear aspects. So if someone suddenly 'contracts' a great physiological problem, that will most definitely be reflected in the chart.


This confuses me to. Let's say a horrible thing happens to me when I'm 8, and turns me into a retard. You're saying my chart would reflect that. You mean the chart of the day I was struck retarded, right? But doesn't everybody alive have the same chart on a particular day? Or does the chart for that day when I was struck retarded interact with the chart of my birth, somehow?


Odds for these things are very close to zero. [/qjuote]


I really don't know enough about it to evaluate the statements you're making. For all I know there are enough factors in play that it's likely any two people will have a handful of them in common.

Obviously, if astrology weren't strictly accurate, it would be bullshit. If astrology were only partly and sometimes right, it would never have caught my attention.


Skilled astrologers are certainly good at convincing other people that it works; so good that otherwise rational people have been convinced of it for zillions of years. So there is something about it that keeps it going through multiple cultures and multiple epochs. I have some reservations that keep me from thinking more of it than that.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:15 pm

SM , a lot of hard angles to cancer?


I wouldn't know, you are way off. Have another guess.

The term New Age comes from astrology and the zodiac originated in ancient Babylon.

Occultist and author David Anrias says this in his book Through the Eyes of Masters:

When a transition takes place from one Age to another, and hence from one sign to another, certain Adepts who for centuries may have been preparing for their office by meditation and study, take over the work of inspiring the new cycle. For nearly two thousand years the earth has been under the watery sign Pisces ruled by Neptune, the main features of which have been the establishing of Christianity and the conquest of the ocean. Now the new cycle has begun, Aquarius, an airy sign, is influencing men’s minds along scientific lines in every direction, especially towards the conquest of the air.

The doctrines of the New Age imply that people are divine, that the spiritual element of humans is immortal and has existed with God since time began, and that the material element of each person has evolved over several lives.

Satan has been using those two very lies—that we are divine and that we are immortal—to deceive people since Adam and Eve.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Jakob » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:14 am

Uccisore wrote:
Jakob wrote:Do you mean a person born with such an affliction?


Either/both. I don't think people know enough about what causes things like that for me to give a solid answer. There's a lot of personality disorders that SEEM to manifest early enough that we could say a kid had them from birth. But how do you know when people don't even have a personality for the first few years?

In as far as astrology makes claims it makes them all the way. I mean, in as far as we take its claims seriously, we look at the whole of the persons existence. So a 'retard' by nativity would have severe afflictions to Mercury, Moon, likely, Saturn too probably. Or just very heavily on Sun.

Obviously the chart does not freeze when one is born, there are many ways in which to predict events and changes, one of which in particular frighteningly accurate, called the progressed moon chart.


I don't know much about astrology, but this sort of outlines my confusion with it. Based on what you're saying here, it seems like there would be seasons/days in which retards wouldn't be born, and seasons/days in which tons of retards would be born. Though I was more thinking narcissists, psychopaths, and stuff like that when I brought it up- stuff for which predictions about optimism and values and such would have radically different answers. I'm picturing a nurse in a maternity ward looking at a nursery full of this week's or this evenings births, and thinking "There's a whole lot of future assholes/empaths/go-getters/optimists." It seems less plausible when you think of any given chart applying to a whole mess of people, instead of just the one you're talking to. Or to put it another way; there are people out there with a clinical diagnosis of some mental issue that basically means that they will never be optimistic about anything, ever. They're like Tony Soprano's Mom or whatever. Does astrology entail that none of them have the same birthdate as me? That strains my credulity to the point of snapping.

Astrology doesnt make a difference between moral and immoral, and it is certain,y possible that a whole lot of you'd walk around with different jobs, different types of forms but in type of coherence and behavior patterns, endoctrine makeup, 'fate-aesthetics', you name whatever, have the same identify, more or less.

Any crises in the life will be neatly accompanied by very clear aspects. So if someone suddenly 'contracts' a great physiological problem, that will most definitely be reflected in the chart.


This confuses me to. Let's say a horrible thing happens to me when I'm 8, and turns me into a retard. You're saying my chart would reflect that. You mean the chart of the day I was struck retarded, right? But doesn't everybody alive have the same chart on a particular day? Or does the chart for that day when I was struck retarded interact with the chart of my birth, somehow?

It's that the chart with which you were born keeps developing. This is called the progressed chart(s).
Note that every degree that anything moves is significant - that aso goes for the ascendant. Naturally the thing is quite sensitive to detail, it's cosmic, levels off at the level of electron spin.

Odds for these things are very close to zero.


I really don't know enough about it to evaluate the statements you're making. For all I know there are enough factors in play that it's likely any two people will have a handful of them in common.

Sure. It's just a statement of observation, not meant as argument.
My readings are the best I can do to make arguments.
Of course to have true detail one needs precise time in minutes at least, and a lot of work has to be put into reading it. Im just giving a few snapshots of what it's like to read a chart. The type of info that can come out of it.

Obviously, if astrology weren't strictly accurate, it would be bullshit. If astrology were only partly and sometimes right, it would never have caught my attention.


Skilled astrologers are certainly good at convincing other people that it works; so good that otherwise rational people have been convinced of it for zillions of years. So there is something about it that keeps it going through multiple cultures and multiple epochs. I have some reservations that keep me from thinking more of it than that.

Sure, that's the running premise among those who don't bother with it. I don't, of course, consider these people astrologers. An astrologer is not bothered with convincing people except to show them look this is awesome, it works. An astrology wishes to read charts. It is like science, the power is hypnotic.
Honestly without meaning offense in this case, to me this is akin to saying scientists are evil magicians, as muslims are prone to say - it's a matter of values, of what one wishes to allow as possible, as possibly true.

It is very obvious that if/since astrology is real, the consequences are monstrous.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Jakob » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:18 am

A Shieldmaiden wrote:
SM , a lot of hard angles to cancer?


I wouldn't know, you are way off.

You wouldn't know, or I'm way off?
Do you know what you have in cancer?
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:36 am

You wouldn't know, or I'm way off?
Do you know what you have in cancer?


Do you mean the astrological sign of Cancer?

What are you talking about.

You are practising witchcraft now are you.

"I'll put a spell on you". HA!
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Jakob » Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:08 am

Yes, the astrological sign.
It's not my fault that they named a disease after it.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Jakob » Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:18 am

I am satisfied that I scared some people a bit, it is after all ridiculous that it should work.

This gives you a notion of the universe I inhabit, I know full well things aren't supposed to work in magical ways but in mundane ways, that follow from casual down to earth common sense logic.

In my experience some events are regulated by simple, obvious laws. But these tend to be trivial things. A phenomenon so complex as the human being, which makeup in electrochemical terms is virtually indistinguishable from the pressures that are upon him from the outside, save for this unfathomable principle called perspective, or self-valuing as I have termed it, is however governed by endlessly complex laws.

Astrology can by no means make statements about every aspect of life. But it can identify specific patterns that have been working on man and beast and plant and mineral before him since the earth was formed.

Astrology is the science of subtlety. An astrologer has to be more humble than a scientist; he can not comprehend the entirety of a chart, at least not usually. He can not see all the laws that govern a behavior. But that is what makes it all the more valuable; within the vast whole that a human is, there are so many 'souls', spirits, behaviors.

Polytheism and astrology were originally the same. Freud and Jung tried to bring it back, but they were still too conservative to account for the vast absurdity of the degree of coherence that makes this all such a mystery, this life.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:23 am

Why do you torture yourself so, it weakens the mind.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Jakob » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:23 pm

Shieldmaiden, you crack me up.
Seldom I saw such a helpless creature.
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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Jakob » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:25 pm

I did not entirely expect this thread to be concluded in the favor of astrology this violently. Expected a bit more snags and resistance.

Well fuck.

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Re: Clockwork Blue

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:43 pm

Ierrellus wrote:I'm impressed. You seem to have gotten my personality right.


I would be much more impressed if Jacob had gotten the personality right of someone who just flew into ilp and gave his birth date...not someone whose personality and character might be easily intuited and gleaned as a result of so many posts.



Sorry, Jake, I'm a skeptic.

I've also had Chinese fortune cookies, which when opened, seemed to be on point for me.

Am I an arcturian, Jake? :mrgreen:


The thing is that we are all a process and we grow and transform into who we are - for a time anyway until that time comes when we shed our skin and transform again...an allegorical continuum as it were.

So Jake, at one time and who are we as we are written in the stars. (I don't think I expressed that well) lol.
Do the stars know our individual personal history, all the decisions which we will make and all the thoughts which we shall have because of that personal history, all the patterns which are a part of us which will change and those which will remain the same?
One size seems to fit many when it comes to astrology. The stars do not seem to make many distinctions, do they, individually speaking.
I'm a libra by the way...Oct. 8th what does that say about me? Egypt and israel signed a "paper" under the stars.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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