drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwkj1Y … cslist_api
Everyone should see this video, completely and carefully.
With love,
Sanjay
What about the vid, yes I watched it. I would like to know what kind of conceited self righteous jackass would show that to kids.
I respect you and your beliefs but, to subject kids like that to something that can harm them is irresponsible. I have no problems seeing that vid but, a child will. You want thought? Well think about what those people did to at least one young impressionable mind that may not be stable or have a good supportive family. Hate , pain, ignorance, misunderstanding etc start wars, mass murders, all because of a mind not ready for life or it is ill. I make a living caring for livestock and other animals. I have killed the animals for food or for mercy to put them out of suffering, I hug chickens, I have killed chickens, etc, . I also know that costs rising in groceries means I cannot give to charities. You think farmers won’t raise costs if millions go vegan? Bullshit. The law of demand.
It would be great if butchering meat was able to be done cost effectively and completely humane but , a trillion mouths to feed kind of makes that hard and damn near impossible.
I’m sorry, but I cannot take the sheer amount of logical fallacies…so I had to break my fucking record. Thanks Kris, you made me break my fucking record, my posts read 1002 now, instead of 1001, which is gay.
Look, if people ate meat like once a week they’d be fine, bottomline. Native American’s ate meat like once every three days. Anyone who cannot handle that are weaklings. What ever happened to live lightly? If everyone in the world stopped being obese and dictated by cravings the animal quality of life would improve.
What is the exact harm you think in showing that vid to the kids?
With love,
Sanjay
Also remember, those kids were not 8-10 olds but teenagers, who may be voters too.
With love,
Sanjay
I saw butcher films at a much younger age, before I got out of the first grade.
There was a religion known as the Manicheans, very vegan, strongly Dualistic between Good and Evil. They even opposed eating plants, their monastics wanted nothing to do with preparing plants for food, saying they could hear them screaming.
So I presume mowing the grass would be akin to a slaughter video for them, and if they still existed as a active religion they would be bombarding us too.
What is important in regards to livestock, is to breed them to be less rational, dumber and stupid. Cows are a excellent source of meat… low intelligence, herd mentality, a single kill provides food for many. Farm stock in America aims at bigger, tamer, dumber.
I generally have issues against pork, too intelligent, all our efforts at domestication hasn’t stupified them enough. Chickens, Ill eat in a heartbeat. Goats, I don’t like the taste of, but will kill cause they just look at me stupid… if you give me that look, you got it coming.
Animals humans socialize, such as cats and dogs, no. Many people keep rabbits as pets, I wouldn’t eat them. I would eat a wild rabbit.
Deer lost their natural predators here, live in exploding numbers, get hit by cars constantly… some parts of the state, deers have already evolved to the point of stopping and looking both ways before crossing the street, but not here. In either case, unless Vegans are going to go put condoms on deers to keep their numbers down, someone has to do it, so I support hunting. I’m not a hunter… dislike the meat, but I favor the idea. Intelligent creatures, but only because they had to be as prey. They breakdown otherwise.
I wouldn’t eat a monkey or a dolphin, too intelligent. A horse was originally kept for food, but we’ve domesticated them for relations between rider and steed, and to plow. I’m not comfortable changing our relations with them, even though such needs are dissapearing. We’ve used them for thousands of years, riding horses have evolved to respond to human psychology. I think the Italians are bastards for eating them.
When it comes to mechanical butchary, I don’t think undue pain should be experienced. They go from grazing, child rearing if they had calves, to the latter stage of their lives. Put them in a cattle car (I’ve been rounded and packed in cattlecars in basic training, it’s not inhumane, we we’re squeezed and yelling, but it isn’t that bad), send them to a butcher shop. We have pmeunomic pistons, which are air operated bolts shot through the forehead of the cow’s skull. Very fast braindeath, like getting shot in the head, instant.
For pigs, it’s less than stellar. They are smart, don’t take kindly to seeing their buddies die before them. I’ve seen assemblies pig up pigs by the hind leg, carry them upside down through a assembly line, have a prefixed blade that often misses when the pig wisely jerks back, or doesn’t go deep enough, and the sight of every pig on the opposite side is enough to make them go mad, on a rampage. Usually, a gunman is kept on this side to shot any survivors.
Problem is, shooting their skull shoots brain matter into the air, causing brain cells to float around. People breathe it it, they form antibodies to it within a few years… the antibodies can’t tell the difference between the pig ccells and our nerve cells, and in euro degenerative diseases occur.
Its why I dissaprove of the actual slaughter being done by mechanisms, it should be done by a sure and steady hand, such as forum member Joker’s, who works doing such tasks. You can better shield the animal from it’s fear, and kill it surely and fastly.
Chickens, I’ve seen people cut the legs first, then the head… makes sense, don’t want it running around headless, but sucks… they still have a neurological system. Nothing merits the survival of a chicken, over say a bear, human, or ape as far as intelligence goes. If you feed them, even once, they do form a emotional attachment to you, but this is forgotten the second the sun goes down… they thrive mostly on instinct.
I can watch butcher shop videos without losing my stomach. I just don’t want the process cruel. I want our food sources dumber and dumber, plumper and plumper. I strongly support continued efforts to grow cloned, laboratory meat. We can do it now, but the technology is in it’s infancy. I wouldn’t mind seeing a mile long slab of steak, bioprogrammed to die on it’s own at it’s prime, with a computer as it’s brain, incapable of thinking or feeling. You can cut me off a cube of it to eat.
I count 4 adults maybe 5 watching that vid, maybe 4 around 17 or older. The rest were under 15 at least 3 quite likely under 13. My problem is hormonally challenged , youth, protected, innocent of experiencing brutal action , will be hit hard mentally. Nightmares, behavior change, mental stress, drastic extreme belief changes. If you think it is ok to subject minds to such things without parental supervision or permission, then you are wrong.
What I also did not like was we do not know what the people told these viewers and that they obviously did not include any other reaction or lack of. Then to really try to dig at hearts they presented only young vulnerable females. This manipulates adults. It pushes reaction toward a desired path of revulsion. If the whole thing was put together honestly and without blatant manipulation and the use of vulnerable children, it would be acceptable.
Children that recieve mental shock and pain are vulnerable to becoming sociopaths or extremists that attack. You know the big push against bullying and the reasons why? Well this was bullying in its own way.
So … what are you going to do about it?
People have always been cruel. The industrial revolution merely made their cruelty more efficient. And technology makes it nearly unstoppable.
What you need to do is learn how to cook properly, using impedance matching and wisdom. Note that the “Texas Fried Oatmeal” has very little oatmeal involved.
… and perhaps learn a little more of the language of your spiritual ancestors.
James,
I have done whatever was/is within my limits and will do the same also, whether that changes anything or not. Posting that vid is also a part of that.
With love,
Sanjay
No you haven’t Zinnati, you’ve done the minimum. It was a argument we all heard to boot.
Your job as a philosopher is to develop increasingly better arguments. You may fail the first 10,000 times, but you always have access to novelty. You may just land on a effective argument by chance and blind luck if you only put more effort into it. I won’t make it easy, and you should be thankful for it, allows you to craft that much better of a argument.
The steak was good that I ate a while. I was thinking about this thread while eating it. You should of came up with a harder to refute argument. Bad philosophers reap the karma of ineffective ideas.
Okay. Let me pick from your objections only.
First of all, I do not support that youngs should be allowed to see such level of brutality. That is not my purpose of posting that. But, i differ from your proposed way of not letting that happen. Your suggestion (which i am assuming) is that let the brutality continue but do not allow kids to see that. My suggestion is that such brutality should not happen in the first place, so the question of seeing that does not arise at all.
Now, coming to your objections, firstly, you admitted that it is brutality. Not only that, you also think that the level of that brutality may harm to youngs. Right.
Now, the first question is whether that brutality is necessary or not? Whether we have any other alternative to ignore that? And, if there are any, what they are and should we still opt for that brutality even having other alternatives?
Second question is about the age of those kids. We cannot tell about that exact age from the vid. However, even if i take your argument that only adults should be allowed to see that vid, that means 18 years old. But, does that vid not affect 18 years old kids at all? Maturity evolves slowly with age, not all of a sudden. Means, a 17 years and 364 days old kid does not become fully mature next day when he becomes 18 years old, which is the general legal definition of maturity. And, i think that vid would affect all those who are not familiar with such things in one way of other, irrespective of their age. How that issue would be addressed? Should filming or showing such things be banned at all?
Thirdly, narration and presentation in that vid may be twisted but those pictures are not certainly fake but real. Do presenters not have the right to put things according to their perspective? Most of the people do not have any problem with many other controversial ideas, which are openly not only displayed but directly/indirectly promoted (gay parade etc), so what is the issue with this vid? Does open display and promotion of homosexuality and abortion not affect kids at all? And, how this vid can be stopped from showing ( I mean legally)?
with love,
sanjay
I wouldn’t bet on that one, Sanjay.
Such scenes were discovered in the USA a century ago and led to laws against such behavior. Those films could easily be from long ago and/or from whoKnowsWhat country. The film is at least propaganda, thus merits investigation concerning such details before you get upset about it (and certainly before shown to the general unsuspecting public).
The Nazi propaganda film “The Eternal Jew” also has scenes of the kosher slaughter of animals. Those are powerful images, guaranteed to get a strong reaction.
James,
I am not sure what you exactly mean. That film may be propaganda to some extent but i am concerned with only what was shown in that vid, not the narration.
Are you saying that display of such brutality is banned in US now? And, on what grounds?
Secondly, US alone was not in my mind when i posted that vid. That may well be happening in some butcher factory in India too. India also exports meat, especially beef.
Thirdly, i do not think that vid was filmed a century ago. Automation of that level was not available at that time.
Lastly, do you think that those pictures are fake or doctored (forget about narration running in the background), and if not, are you okay with what was happening in those pictures?
with love,
sanjay
Those images are undoubtedly real and fairly recent. Where some of them staged? Possibly. But they did not need to be staged. Those things are happening. How often is it happening? How often are animals killed quickly and painlessly? How often do they suffer? That is unclear.
Assemble a short video of all the most gruesome images and you can make people believe it is the norm … that it is happening constantly.
Zinnat, Would you like it if someone off the streets put your underage kid’s mental health at stake by showing them things they were not prepared to see? If they did it without your knowledge?
We are allowed by default to film butcher scenes, killing of animals, etc, so long as it can be shown no animal died for the sake of making a film. Reason we passed the law was because of Mussolini’s Scipio Africanus movie, in which they killed real elephants in the battle scenes, and had the elephant babies touching their mothers weeping while Italian actors stood around laughing… it sorta pissed everyone off.
However, I am perfectly in my tights to walk into a slaughterhouse and film away. Those animals we’re not dying for the sake of filming, but of the slaughterhouse.
Likewise, a slaughterhouse can make a documentary to train apprentices, using the killing of live animals. Religious groups who sacrifice can film it, etc… if you have a right to film it, you also have a right to distribute it, for capital gain, and/or to make a political position. What you can’t do is say, in Mission Impossible 6 Tom Cruise will shoot a live Orangutang in the head on screen, and beat his assailants with parts of it’s corpse in the escape from the Bangkok Zoo scene. Fake orangutang, it’s okay. You find a dead Orangutang in the woods and want to make it look alive, fine, whatever. You just can’t kill a animal for film when its pure entertainment value.
Can it be overthrown in a first admendment battle? Probable, but nobody ever tried sincerely to do so. Most everyone grasps the wisdom of it.
The old documentries of Lemmings jumping to their deaths, if made after this law, would technically violate the law… I think Disney owns the rights to it (not certain). I know the director later admitted Lemmings dont jump to their deaths, he had guys chasing them over a cliff. Would definately violate the law. Those documentries were in color, Scipio Afticanus in Black and White… if profits are still bring made, go ahead and sue them, start a Lemming preservation trust fund with the winnings.
This video pisses me off. It’s worse than Hitler’s concentration camps. Yet at the time, I’m not the least bit surprised, and in fact I would be surprised if this turned out to be the exception to the rule.
I have a saying that if it can be done, it will be done. This is a rule of thumb that applies to all life. If corruption, cruelty, and butchery can happen, and it is profitable to do so, it will happen. There is nothing inherent to mankind, or any animal, as a species that says doing X is off limits. If X is considered by and large to be an unthinkably immoral act, there is nothing stopping life from breeding a strain from its own bloodlines to have no qualms about doing X if X were a viable means of survival and prosperity. Life is like water being poured into a maze. It will flow down any possible avenue it can find. There is no such thing as an avenue too “bad” or “immoral” for water to flow down. The majority of streams will not flow down the “bad” or “immoral” avenues, but it is inevitable that some stream will.
This is why pesticides breed more resistant pests. It is why antibiotics breed more resistant bacterial strains. These avenues of survival, so to speak, are not off limits, and no matter how undesirable or deadly they are to us, given a large enough population of pests or bacteria, there will be a strain that evolves down that avenue.
This is why these Nazi-like slaughter houses exist. They can exist. They are a means of survival–in terms of business and as a food source for the rest of us–and given that we are a very numerous species, there just will be some of us who don’t give a damn about the torture and cruelty done unto these animals, and go into the business as a means of making a living.
Hey… Joker went into that means of making a living. His slaughterhouse did hands on killing, experienced knives, fast. He liked his job, we like the byproduct. Its much better than the Indiana Jones Temple of Doom setup where blades are prepositioned expecting most will die according to bell curve specifications… I’m a strong supporter of the initial killing being done by a skilled hand, fast. Kosher butchery aims at this too. I can’t speak positively of Halah methods, takes too damn long.
And Hitler was a vegan. Jesus ate meat. Its something to keep in mind when comparing food practices to societies… the animals humans usually most closely bond with are highly intelligent, and at least omnivorous, if not carnivorous. Rabbits and Sacred Cows, Horses and Lapp Reindeer are the exception, and I’m opposed to eating life that has evolved positive relations with humans (I wouldn’t eat someones sacred cow, even if offered by them, but would a normal cow).
I get weirded out on eating stuff that looks to you as a friend, or seeking protection and companionship through humans. Or highly intelligent creatures.
The mechanical operations of the mechanical butcher shop is okay with me once the animal is dead, as long as people are healthy working there. I know it gets nasty. Its not a issue of humanity as the creature is already dead, it’s just organic matter, even if it’s warm and kicking.
If you have someone there, ready to minimize death, I’m fine. I am not fine with boiling a lobster alive, or Pezers video of people eating a live lobster at a dinner table… taking their time. Kill it fast, lightening quick… it may be a bug, but it still has consciousness, and a rather evolved bug brain at that… not anything for me to fret over dying, but I don’t want human executed deaths becoming dragged out or unreasonable. When it comes to killing, we should always be quick and efficient in it, and as compassionate as can be. Only exception are the elderly, who should be forced to live by machines though extraordinary and painful means, bancrupting their families and making them pray for death daily… they must be kept alive.
This is the guy who sponsored the video…
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4[/youtube]
“How would you feel if the day that you were born, somebody had already planned the day of your execution? … That is what it is like to be a cow.”
What he doesn’t understand … yet, is “that is what it is to be alive in the globalist age.”
Modern life feeds on death. And the more you pressure it, the more it does it.
That is what you have to change.
There is no excuse, no true reason or rationale for death to exist on planet Earth. So why does it?
The real answer is simple enough. “Think about it.”
…If you aren’t dealing with reality, what are you playing with?