If you cant say it in one sentence...

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If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Amorphos » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:43 am

'If you cant say it in one sentence, chances are you are saying both 'it' and at least an additional something else at the same time' ~ amorphos.
Last edited by Amorphos on Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:39 pm

I can not say in one sentence that I can not say this in one sentence and not lie.


But aside, what is so holy about the singularity of a sentence?
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Maia » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:46 pm

I never use just one sentence.
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby anon » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:28 pm

Amorphos wrote:If you cant say it in one sentence, chances are you are saying both 'it' and at least an additional something else at the same time.

That's a fascinating thesis, actually. I'm hoping it's not just a joke, and that I'll get to read an impassioned defense of it!
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Ierrellus » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:54 pm

My major prof in grad school believed in "multum in parvo" (Sic), much in a little. Sorry, I've forgotten my Latin. Anyhoo, he believed that anyone writing a book should be able, or willing, to state the entire matter in a single paragraph. I agree and appreciate short, terse statements. Sometimes more than that seems to be an attempt by the writer to justify what he/she has to say.
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Ierrellus » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:54 pm

duplicate post
Last edited by Ierrellus on Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Ben JS » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:36 pm

This sentence is false.

OR

I'm lying.

----

Maia wrote:I never use just one sentence.


Yes, there's so much more you use than just one sentence. You use an even number of characters, for example.

----

Amorphos,

The road is brown. Brown is the colour of the road.

OR

One equals one. One equals one. One equals one.
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby James S Saint » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:37 pm

I never use more than one sentence, except when I do and I also never say "never", except when I do but I don't always say it one way or another except when it seems to suit the need at the time to do otherwise, assuming there is a need at the time to be suited and of course excepting that at times there isn't but could have been and often should have been but wasn't despite people always assuming that there is when in fact there really never was because they can't always tell why something is being said in the way that it is said when it had good reason to be said that way whether they could see that or not and is a bit irrelevant as to why as long as it is understood what was intended to be said so that what was said can be communicated most efficiently without having to defend the intent of the one saying or the way that they chose to say it so I all seem obviously irrelevant although important to realize that not everything should be said in a single sentence because sometimes that sentence might get a bit long and hard to make sentience out of unless you just happen to be good at seeing past the noise and into the point at hand in which case you don't bother with worries of how things are said and if they are said just properly, not properly enough, or just properly enough because none of that changes the very purpose of saying what was said in the first place, assuming that anything was really being said in the first place which of course is usually the case but not always because some people just like to blurt things out without having a good reason other than to just express a feeling that came to mind even though what was said actually had no meaning to be properly expressed whether in one sentence of a dozen sentences that might seem like one sentence but perhaps could have been broken up into many sentences depending on what the person was trying to accomplish by using one sentence, or however many he used so as to express his intent, that intent that the other person has to be able to figure out on his own anyway regardless of how anything was said so the whole issue of how many sentences seem a bit silly except for those times when it is isn't which might be at any unpredictable time, so I don't see what the big deal is really because there doesn't seem to be any certain way that is always best except for those few times when there really is a best way, but how is anyone going to find out what that is unless they do things in a way that wasn't so good that would reveal the need to do it better and why better actually is better and they can't see that unless they see it being done in a worse way because that is how they learn whether with one sentence being stated or many sentences being stated because after all, what is a sentence anyway but just a bunch of words thrown together that happen to cause a reaction in someone else that probably only led to more harm than good anyway, except when it doesn't which isn't really all that often, so seeing how there is so little to be said in the first place, maybe saying everything in merely one sentence would be good practice for a lot of people, not that everyone should have to do it all the time or even most of the people, but perhaps a lot of people for a short time just to get in the practice of not making run-on sentences that are hard to read but then again perhaps making sentences hard to read might lead to a learning experience in which case one really needs to make things hard to read at times just so others can learn do deal with it and let people be people and do what they do and still be able to get along and understand their intent despite what they say or how they said it and not be so anal about exactly how every little sentence is said because in the long run it really doesn't make any difference, except when it does which really isn't all the often so one shouldn't complain about how other people write their sentences because who can be perfect all the time anyway and why should they have to when the whole point is merely to get from A to B and it hardly takes perfect grammar for that to happen since it has been going on for thousands of years without exactly proper sentencing yet hasn't stop man from covering the Earth with his little ass anyway so obviously it can't be all that important, except when it is and and obvious those times can't be all that many so the whole idea of trying to always say everything in a single sentence just doesn't make sense, except when it does.
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Amorphos » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:53 pm

^^ see how horrible that looks! :lol: :wink: there will come a time when research, philosophy, storytelling and even conversation will have twitter rules lol

Fixed Cross wrote:I can not say in one sentence that I can not say this in one sentence and not lie.


But aside, what is so holy about the singularity of a sentence?


its more that meanings are strung together from other meanings, so I usually find things can be continually reduced into smaller integers of meaning and concept. Eventually we reach a plateaux where everything is fully reduced [or shaved by occams razor], so it is not so much that you can say any meaning in a sentence, as much as, meaning should be able to fit into something as finite as a 'sentence'.

What did the first part mean?

Maia wrote:I never use just one sentence.


hahaha, I bet it would make things easier for you.

anon wrote:
Amorphos wrote:If you cant say it in one sentence, chances are you are saying both 'it' and at least an additional something else at the same time.

That's a fascinating thesis, actually. I'm hoping it's not just a joke, and that I'll get to read an impassioned defense of it!


defence coming up! See also above. I very much believe in this, in fact its quite fundamental to my philosophy ~ I like to cut through the jungle with it somewhat ['it' being a vague tool of mind].

Ierrellus wrote:My major prof in grad school believed in "multum in parvo" (Sic), much in a little. Sorry, I've forgotten my Latin. Anyhoo, he believed that anyone writing a book should be able, or willing, to state the entire matter in a single paragraph. I agree and appreciate short, terse statements. Sometimes more than that seems to be an attempt by the writer to justify what he/she has to say.


indeed, though one can become a little stoic ~ if thats a bad thing. Probably bad for forums and chat rooms lol.


Joe Schmoe wrote:This sentence is false.

OR

I'm lying.

The road is brown. Brown is the colour of the road.

OR

One equals one. One equals one. One equals one.


Whatever they are saying, you can bet they are saying it in one sentence! I mean, they all mean something don't they ~ you are saying a statement of some kind. They are examples of many meanings being squashed nicely into one simple package ~ good work!
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby anon » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:27 pm

Amorphous, is it your claim that meaning occurs in discrete units? Is there no meaning in an incomplete sentence? In a word? A letter? A number? An image?

If your claim is only that writers should be succinct, I can't say I'm interested much.

But considering your interest in information, which I think you tend to reify or substantialize, I thought you might actually have a radical view to share. I'm still hoping!
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby insightfoul » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:41 pm

If you can't say it in one sentence, then do you really have a point?
"Science needs more BLONDS! Statistically Science has fewer blonds than dark hairs. We need to eliminate the dark haired people and make room for the blonds. Science needs more BLACKS! Statistically Science has fewer blacks than whites. .....Science needs more CATS! Statistically Science has fewer cats than people. We need to eliminate the people and make room for the cats. Science needs more ANDROIDS! Statistically Science has fewer androids than people. We need to eliminate the people and make room for the androids.

We seriously must stop this prejudice of allowing merely those who can do a job to do it. That just isn't fair. If they are not of a minority, just don't hire them. It isn't fair that the majority is employed while the minority has to sit on their butts. Why should the majority get the rewords of dedicated struggle and talent? Fire the majority. Let the Minority get all the jobs and rewards." ~James S Saint
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Flannel Jesus » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:48 pm

Amorphos wrote:its more that meanings are strung together from other meanings, so I usually find things can be continually reduced into smaller integers of meaning and concept. Eventually we reach a plateaux where everything is fully reduced [or shaved by occams razor], so it is not so much that you can say any meaning in a sentence, as much as, meaning should be able to fit into something as finite as a 'sentence'.

That's not 'reducing'. Using fewer words to say the same thing is the opposite of reduction. It requires higher levels of abstraction, not lower levels. Saying 'A witch' is not a reduced form of the phrase, 'A woman with a wart and a pointy cap and magical abilities to cause harm to other people' -- the second sentence is a reduced form of the first (obviously not a proper reduction, just a sloppy example reduction that nitpickers can pick at but which, to the thoughtful, will make sense despite silly possible nitpicks). You've got it switched around.

Since the first phrase holds all the meaning in every word of the latter phrase, the first phrase must have LARGER 'integers' (I'll just accept that terminology for the sake of conversation) than the latter phrase. The words in the latter phrase distribute amongst themselves more meaning, thus giving each individual word less meaning to hold (which is what I take you to mean when you say 'smaller integers of meaning').
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Flannel Jesus » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:03 pm

That being said, I actually have a point to make here that I take quite seriously: I'm very much annoyed that you're promoting the myth that sentence length has anything to do with Occam's Razor. 'Simplicity' in the sense of Occam's Razor has nothing to do with natural language sentence length. One can compress any amount of complexity into a single word. The word 'cube' and the word 'human' are both only one word; the concepts are not of equal complexity. This is part of the power of words -- the ability to wrap up complex concepts into easy-to-say/write/read symbols/sounds/etc. A sentence of 100 words may be less complex, in the Occam's Razor sense, than a sentence of 3 words.

Eg take the explanation for thunder, of 'Thor did it', with a full explanation of Maxwell's Equations. Maxwell's Equations take much more time to explain, but in the end, they're much much less complex than the mind of a god. Word count is not a good measure of complexity.
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Maia » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:17 pm

No verb, no sentence, no meaning.
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby insightfoul » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:28 pm

Maia wrote:No verb, no sentence, no meaning.

What nonsense
"Science needs more BLONDS! Statistically Science has fewer blonds than dark hairs. We need to eliminate the dark haired people and make room for the blonds. Science needs more BLACKS! Statistically Science has fewer blacks than whites. .....Science needs more CATS! Statistically Science has fewer cats than people. We need to eliminate the people and make room for the cats. Science needs more ANDROIDS! Statistically Science has fewer androids than people. We need to eliminate the people and make room for the androids.

We seriously must stop this prejudice of allowing merely those who can do a job to do it. That just isn't fair. If they are not of a minority, just don't hire them. It isn't fair that the majority is employed while the minority has to sit on their butts. Why should the majority get the rewords of dedicated struggle and talent? Fire the majority. Let the Minority get all the jobs and rewards." ~James S Saint
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby James S Saint » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:32 pm

insightfoul wrote:
Maia wrote:No verb, no sentence, no meaning.

What nonsense

Nope.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Moreno » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:04 am

Amorphos wrote:'If you cant say it in one sentence, chances are you are saying both 'it' and at least an additional something else at the same time' ~ amorphos.

Each sentence will cover an it. The second sentence will definitely add Another it - by some definition of it.
But if the phenomenon you are describing, for example, is new and not easy to grasp, just because you are using a couple of sentences to get Another mind to connect to 'it' does not mean you are adding something else.

I will put up a counter saying to yours.....

For most things, one sentence has not adequately said 'it'. For example: A cat is a mammal. The only reason this might say 'it' is because we have a lot of other sentences already having been said to us or floating around in our minds. That sentence alone means nothing. It might as well say

A blurgtpoupa is a ¤¤%¤#. And that's being generous about the article and the verb.

That said, I Think it is a very clever, out of the box OP.
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Stuart » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:46 pm

My clever take on the OP is that it is something else, which goes to show that one apparently can still say it and something else even if only using one sentence, in fact they can do so twice, as you just saw, so the use of limiting one's writing to one sentence is kind of negated.
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Stuart » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:50 pm

Maia wrote:I never use just one sentence.


Which brings up another clever philosophical statement/question. Is one lying if what they're writing is true during the actual time the writing takes place, but loses it's correctness upon being made public, even if the writer had the chance to correct the misstatement before making it public?
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Stuart » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:53 pm

Flannel, I've been running across debates on Occam's Razor, and yet don't know what it's about; I realize here and now is a very ideal time to ask for a short explanation of the term.
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Maia » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:31 pm

Stuart wrote:
Maia wrote:I never use just one sentence.


Which brings up another clever philosophical statement/question. Is one lying if what they're writing is true during the actual time the writing takes place, but loses it's correctness upon being made public, even if the writer had the chance to correct the misstatement before making it public?


Yes and no.
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Maia » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:32 pm

Stuart wrote:Flannel, I've been running across debates on Occam's Razor, and yet don't know what it's about; I realize here and now is a very ideal time to ask for a short explanation of the term.


The simpler the better.
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Stuart » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:13 pm

So if one is incapable of understanding the concept, they would be among the best?
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Maia » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:16 pm

Stuart wrote:So if one is incapable of understanding the concept, they would be among the best?


The simpler the better is what Occam's Razor is, it's not a call for a simple explanation of it.
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Re: If you cant say it in one sentence...

Postby Stuart » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:32 pm

Maybe not, but Stuart's Dull Hacksaw is exactly that.

It's where the very concept of the Dull Hacksaw itself is negated as simply as possibly. Of course that explanation is not Stuart's Dull Hacksaw, neither was that, this is:

Stuart's Dull Hacksaw.
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