Justice versus Revenge

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

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What does justice have to do with revenge?

Everything
2
33%
Nothing
1
17%
Neither everything nor nothing
3
50%
Both everything and nothing
0
No votes
I'm confused
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 6

Justice versus Revenge

Postby anon » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:11 pm

What does justice have to do with revenge? Everything? Nothing?
"Distraction is the only thing that consoles us for our miseries, and yet it is itself the greatest of our miseries." - Blaise Pascal

"The bombs we plant in each other are ticking away." - Edward Yang

"To a fly that likes the smell of putrid / Meat the fragrance of sandalwood is foul. / Beings who discard Nirvana / Covet coarse Samsara's realm." - Saraha
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Re: Justice versus Revenge

Postby Faust » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:40 pm

Everything. Justice is the transference of revenge from private parties to the state. Or, justice prevents revenge.
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Re: Justice versus Revenge

Postby Flannel Jesus » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:47 pm

from the mouth of God, aka wikipedia:

Justice is a concept of moral rightness based on ethics, rationality, law, natural law, religion, or equity, along with the punishment of the breach of said ethics

Revenge is a harmful action against a person or group in response to a grievance, be it real or perceived.

I think they're pretty closely related. Neither of them is about effectively solving a problem, they're both about punishment, one for a breach of ethics, the other in response to a grievance (which, I think, includes "a breach of ethics").
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Re: Justice versus Revenge

Postby Stoic Guardian » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:17 pm

Justice and Revenge are not the same.
"Fascism combats, and must combat, without respite or pity, not intelligence, but intellectualism—which is, as I have indicated, a sickness of the intellect" - Giovanni Gentile

”After visiting these places, you can easily understand how that within a few years Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived. He had boundless ambition for his country which rendered him a menace to the peace of the world, but he had a mystery about him in the way that he lived and in the manner of his death that will live and grow after him. He had in him the stuff of which legends are made.”- John F. Kennedy
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Re: Justice versus Revenge

Postby anon » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:32 pm

Stoic Guardian wrote:Justice and Revenge are not the same.

Can justice be conceived of in the absence of the concept of revenge?
"Distraction is the only thing that consoles us for our miseries, and yet it is itself the greatest of our miseries." - Blaise Pascal

"The bombs we plant in each other are ticking away." - Edward Yang

"To a fly that likes the smell of putrid / Meat the fragrance of sandalwood is foul. / Beings who discard Nirvana / Covet coarse Samsara's realm." - Saraha
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Re: Justice versus Revenge

Postby Stoic Guardian » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:45 pm

Justice is about bringing back Balance and Order too the best of ones abilities, Revenge is about enacting a punishment you believe will be equal too or greater than the injustice you believed you received.
It is a primitive predecessor too Justice.
Sometimes the actions used to bring about Justice or Revenge may or may not be the same, but the intent and outcome are very differant.
"Fascism combats, and must combat, without respite or pity, not intelligence, but intellectualism—which is, as I have indicated, a sickness of the intellect" - Giovanni Gentile

”After visiting these places, you can easily understand how that within a few years Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived. He had boundless ambition for his country which rendered him a menace to the peace of the world, but he had a mystery about him in the way that he lived and in the manner of his death that will live and grow after him. He had in him the stuff of which legends are made.”- John F. Kennedy
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Re: Justice versus Revenge

Postby Only_Humean » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:03 am

anon wrote:Can justice be conceived of in the absence of the concept of revenge?


Absolutely. Social justice - a la Rawls, for example - does not aim to take revenge on the rich for being rich (Nietzschean bluster aside), it simply aims for a system of equal opportunities and human rights. Justice can address institutions and systems as well as actions.
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Re: Justice versus Revenge

Postby Drusus » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:41 pm

Justice runs along very well described lines, where as revenge is for the most time random and uncontrolled.
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Re: Justice versus Revenge

Postby anon » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:31 pm

Only_Humean wrote:
anon wrote:Can justice be conceived of in the absence of the concept of revenge?


Absolutely. Social justice - a la Rawls, for example - does not aim to take revenge on the rich for being rich (Nietzschean bluster aside), it simply aims for a system of equal opportunities and human rights. Justice can address institutions and systems as well as actions.

That's to say "justice prevents revenge", as Faust did, isn't it? In which case human rights are a kind of preemptive strike, to prevent future acts of revenge. So even with your example there is no concept of justice without there first being such a thing as revenge.

What do you think?
"Distraction is the only thing that consoles us for our miseries, and yet it is itself the greatest of our miseries." - Blaise Pascal

"The bombs we plant in each other are ticking away." - Edward Yang

"To a fly that likes the smell of putrid / Meat the fragrance of sandalwood is foul. / Beings who discard Nirvana / Covet coarse Samsara's realm." - Saraha
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