Who here is an alpha male?

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Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Silhouette » Thu May 05, 2011 4:14 pm

I wanna see where this goes.
Sorry for the exclusion, ladies :wink:

Let's characterise an alpha male as:
Arrogant,
Self-centred,
Uncaring,
Unapologetic,
Selfish,
and fine with it.

I reckon this sums me up pretty well, any other takers? 8)
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Fent » Fri May 06, 2011 6:22 am

We should add:
Domineering,
Attractive,
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Archangel » Fri May 06, 2011 8:31 am

Silhouette wrote:

Let's characterise an alpha male as:
Arrogant,
Self-centred,
Uncaring,
Unapologetic,
Selfish,
and fine with it.


-I've been accused of all of the above, and yes, it doesn't bother me because all people have the same qualities in different quantities... Alphas are pack leaders, dominant, assertive and the best way to answer whether someone is an Alpha is: if you are not sure that he/she is an Alpha - then he/she is not an Alpha...
-Also, i wouldn't exclude women from this since Alphas exist in both sexes and represent the same thing... How would you describe a female Alpha?
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Oughtist » Fri May 06, 2011 3:16 pm

Some of the hairs on my back are turning grey, does that count?
Things are apparent.
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Blurry » Fri May 06, 2011 3:35 pm

Archangel wrote:...I wouldn't exclude women from this since Alphas exist in both sexes and represent the same thing... How would you describe a female Alpha?


I'm also interested in this.
"Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is non-existent. And don't bother concealing your thievery - celebrate it if you feel like it. In any case, always remember what Jean-Luc Godard said: 'It's not where you take things from - it's where you take them to.'" - Jim Jarmusch
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby turtle » Fri May 06, 2011 3:44 pm

BlurredSavant wrote:
Archangel wrote:...I wouldn't exclude women from this since Alphas exist in both sexes and represent the same thing... How would you describe a female Alpha?


I'm also interested in this.

sweetsavant i want to know more about female alphas
also.......
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Trevor » Fri May 06, 2011 4:20 pm

Archangel wrote:How would you describe a female Alpha?


Image
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Phoebus » Fri May 06, 2011 5:41 pm

The picture above illustrates it perfectly.

The alpha male is someone who is embedded within, supports and leads a community. Carers, supporters, family men. Evolutionarily selected to lead (and through leading, but not only through, support) the pack. Social embodiments of the rules of society

The OP just describes a douche.
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Blurry » Fri May 06, 2011 5:43 pm

Isn't that Sigourney Weaver in that picture?
"Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is non-existent. And don't bother concealing your thievery - celebrate it if you feel like it. In any case, always remember what Jean-Luc Godard said: 'It's not where you take things from - it's where you take them to.'" - Jim Jarmusch
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Trevor » Fri May 06, 2011 5:50 pm

It is. And don't those boots reak of the 80s. Jeez. :lol:
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Blurry » Fri May 06, 2011 6:01 pm

MOON BOOTS FTW!!!
"Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is non-existent. And don't bother concealing your thievery - celebrate it if you feel like it. In any case, always remember what Jean-Luc Godard said: 'It's not where you take things from - it's where you take them to.'" - Jim Jarmusch
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Archangel » Fri May 06, 2011 6:45 pm

trevor wrote:
Archangel wrote:How would you describe a female Alpha?


Image

-Fun, slightly sexy image - but i don't see the dominance element in it. I see explicit aggression, which is something else... In my book, alpha-females are leaders of women, to put it simple. I'm thinking: most of the early feminists, Joan of Arc and the like...
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Trevor » Fri May 06, 2011 7:16 pm

Archangel wrote:but i don't see the dominance element in it.


That'd be that big-arse gun she's holding.

This thread's fate:

Is an alpha female a masculine female?

Or, an uber-female?

Then, what is it to be "female?"

Or what is "masculinity" and " femininity"?

Gender blah blah blah
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Silhouette » Fri May 06, 2011 8:35 pm

Fent wrote:We should add:
Domineering,
Attractive,

Oh of course :wink: and don't forget handsome and impressive 8)

Oughtist wrote:Some of the hairs on my back are turning grey, does that count?

Yes

Phoebus wrote:The OP just describes a douche.

On the contrary!

The OP describes a thoroughly respectable person when they are an alpha male - what you are confusing as a "douche" would be a non-alpha male unjustifiably exhibiting those traits, faking the last one. Obliviousness to the sentiments of others would be accompanied by vulnerability, so faking would be even more see-through.

The trait of "being fine with it" is perhaps the most key requirement of the role - though it must be genuine. A non-alpha male can easily claim to have the OP's characteristics, but it will be evident whether they are sincere through the reactions of others. A sure sign that it is just a front is that people will think those traits are negative in him. A sure sign of an alpha is that people will think those traits positive, though more than likely they would be reworded to mean the same thing but in a more respectful vocabulary.

Phoebus wrote:The alpha male is someone who is embedded within, supports and leads a community. Carers, supporters, family men. Evolutionarily selected to lead (and through leading, but not only through, support) the pack. Social embodiments of the rules of society

Carers, supporters, family men - these are not alphas, they are not so much attractive leaders, they are more serving. When caring is sexually attractive, tokens of care will be feigned, but only secondarily.

Alpha males are the most sexually appealing, which doesn't necessitate being the best at bringing up the products of their sex. Caring is menial and detracts from leadership - though today we increasingly see the two coming together, as our individualistic economic system tears apart naturally healthy communal groupings. Though despite this cultural shift, alpha characteristics are not yet lost entirely.

Archangel wrote:-I've been accused of all of the above, and yes, it doesn't bother me because all people have the same qualities in different quantities... Alphas are pack leaders, dominant, assertive and the best way to answer whether someone is an Alpha is: if you are not sure that he/she is an Alpha - then he/she is not an Alpha...

From your need to justify why it doesn't bother you to be "accused" of OP's characteristics, it can be concluded that you see them in a negative light. This would be an indication that you are not genuinely fine with such accusations, especially since they have been used as accusations rather than compliments.

You are right that Alphas are plain to see just by looking at them.

Archangel wrote:-Also, i wouldn't exclude women from this since Alphas exist in both sexes and represent the same thing... How would you describe a female Alpha?

They are the perfect complement to the Alpha male. The females are not defined against the males, they are mutually defined against one another. It does boil down to sexual selection in the same way for either sex - the OP's characteristics are exhibited by the alpha male because in the alpha male they are the most sexually appealing. Likewise, alpha female characteristics are the most sexually appealing.

Propensity to care is likewise not necessitated by the alpha female role, just sexual desirability. Though in practice, the strong mother/child bond will cause the mother to be drawn to caring for their child - but this is actually a secondary issue.

Sexual selection varies according to culture and species - some contemporarily sexy attributes in human females include being fun, capable, communicatively compelling, self-confident, discriminating, and uncompromising in her choice of male - settling and submitting only to an alpha male (rather than one who inspires mothering). Though that is not to say that an alpha male is not childlike in certain ways.
Last edited by Silhouette on Fri May 06, 2011 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby fuse » Fri May 06, 2011 8:37 pm

Do you think people can either become or stop being alphas?
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Silhouette » Fri May 06, 2011 8:41 pm

fuse wrote:Do you think people can either become or stop being alphas?

Yes.

In other species, the alpha won't last particularly long in his role. In humans today, there is all sorts of group defection and change, introducing all kinds of new associates and conditions that affect one's role in any given group.

Alpha male material, that more accurately this thread addresses, won't necessarily be alpha in all circumstances and permenantly.
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby fuse » Fri May 06, 2011 9:05 pm

When I was in elementary school I was kind of like the leader of the pack among my friends. I remember doing what I wanted and making a lot of the decisions for the group. But I think I was also a fair leader.

Ever since my turbulent teen years, I've kind of been on my own. I'm social and I have good friends, but it doesn't compare to the kind of control and cohesion that I had with my earlier group of friends. I don't lead or take charge of other people mostly because I don't feel like dealing with it. I do my own thing and I gravitate towards people who are of a similar nature.

I respect lots of people for various things here and there, but getting lasting respect from me is not easily earned. When it is, however, I am extremely loyal.

So no, I'm not an alpha.
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby rust » Fri May 06, 2011 9:22 pm

Arrogant,
Self-centred,
Uncaring,
Unapologetic,
Selfish,
and fine with it.

That's not what an alpha is at all, that's just an asshole.
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby statiktech » Fri May 06, 2011 10:13 pm

rust wrote:
Arrogant,
Self-centred,
Uncaring,
Unapologetic,
Selfish,
and fine with it.

That's not what an alpha is at all, that's just an asshole.


I think the whole concept is bullshit, honestly. What people are attracted to in an "alpha" is the illusion of fearlessness. To maintain that illusion is one hell of a feat in itself, though.

And, yeah, you're describing a douche. Possibly even a sociopath.
"Man is the animal that laughs at himself."
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Silhouette » Fri May 06, 2011 11:33 pm

rust wrote:That's not what an alpha is at all, that's just an asshole.

statiktech wrote:you're describing a douche. Possibly even a sociopath.

I direct each of you to my reply to Phoebus.

statiktech wrote:I think the whole concept is bullshit, honestly. What people are attracted to in an "alpha" is the illusion of fearlessness. To maintain that illusion is one hell of a feat in itself, though.

Not quite true - the alpha will still feel fear, that's not the issue. The issue is what behaviour the fear causes and what consequences this behaviour has.

The result will be the submission and attention of those around you in the wake of any instance. The OP characteristics will be apparent, though looked at in a positive light. If it is a fearful instance, the alpha male reaction is distinguishable from the reaction of other males. The reaction may appear to be more fearless compared to the reactions of others, yes. In any situation the alpha is going to come across as more cool and in charge. But this is not a "feat" as though it is some kind of trick or effort. It's just a group emergence and relativity of reactions that results in somebody becoming more familiar with leadership etc.

In a group of two the more cool and in command person may not be a typical alpha in a larger group. There will be more "alpha-ness" apparent in them, but it would take a while to become honed and familiar if that person was not already accustomed to alpha behaviour. This "alpha-ness" would be evident in such a small group even if only slight, but it wouldn't be so recognisable as alpha male behaviour in a larger group where the alpha male is more accustomed to his role.

A valid question might be how significant this distinction is today.

With much more variable social groupings - compared to, say, a pack of wolves - the alpha role is much less prominent, refined and it is more variable. It is, however, still significantly apparent and not an illusion.
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby statiktech » Fri May 06, 2011 11:41 pm

Not quite true - the alpha will still feel fear, that's not the issue. The issue is what behaviour the fear causes and what consequences this behaviour has.


I never argued the "alpha" doesn't fear. I said he/she is proficient in the ability to seem fearless. The "alpha" persona is almost certainly a costume, in my opinion. Some people arrive at this behavior naturally - they learn it over the course of their lives. However, many also seek and learn the behavior with the intention of projecting an illusion.

The former just isn't to be trusted, assuming the characteristics listed are of honest sentiment. The latter is an actor in the worst sense, and, in the end, a joke.
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Silhouette » Sat May 07, 2011 12:16 am

statiktech wrote:The former just isn't to be trusted, assuming the characteristics listed are of honest sentiment. The latter is an actor in the worst sense, and, in the end, a joke.

Of course it is to be trusted. Not trusted to give you an equal share or sacrifice itself so you may live, but trusted to be the one to look to for direction and capablity in handling situations. They can be counted on to be good company and a symbol of cool strength.

This isn't a costume, you said it yourself that it can be arrived at naturally. As such it will be reliably what it is, and not faulter.

The actor will experience holes in his performance because so much of being an alpha is genuine comfort in his position, at all times immediately drawing from the subtlest of experiences. Acting can be very good though, and a good actor may find he no longer needs to act once his acting pays off. Then he too can be trusted.

The failing actor cannot be trusted, that much is true. They will be a joke.
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Phoebus » Sat May 07, 2011 1:08 am

Silhouette wrote:I direct each of you to my reply to Phoebus.


Hmm? Reply?

Carers, supporters, family men - these are not alphas, they are not so much attractive leaders, they are more serving. When caring is sexually attractive, tokens of care will be feigned, but only secondarily.

Alpha males are the most sexually appealing, which doesn't necessitate being the best at bringing up the products of their sex. Caring is menial and detracts from leadership - though today we increasingly see the two coming together, as our individualistic economic system tears apart naturally healthy communal groupings. Though despite this cultural shift, alpha characteristics are not yet lost entirely.


My choice of archetypal characters is bad. 'Carers' carries the wrong implication, as does 'supporter'. Family man is more accurate but, ah ha, burdened. When you say:
but it will be evident whether they are sincere through the reactions of others.


You come closest to what I think an alpha male really represents, that is, someone who stands in a certain relation to a group through which they embody and uphold a certain social standard. By being leaders they themselves represent the embodiment of the rules of the society that they protect, thus they gain their actual characteristics from this relationship. In this sense they are carers, supporters. As with many things, I'm not sure any exhaustive lists are possible, only a finite set of rules that makes building such a list possible.
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Faust » Sat May 07, 2011 3:32 pm

I'm with those who think the OP describes a douchebag.
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Re: Who here is an alpha male?

Postby Silhouette » Sat May 07, 2011 3:48 pm

Faust wrote:I'm with those who think the OP describes a douchebag.

And not an alpha male?
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