Can we stop with the drama? your emphasis on “innocent”, shows that this is an emotional issue for you. My point was to weed out the mischievous men and women who play stupid games with peoples lives.
A man today has to be VERY careful about not being viewed as a sexual “predator”. An Adult woman teacher who fucks her young 13 year old student is not a “predator” but a man who does the same thing is the most evil person on earth? This is the kind of crap we see today in our stupid backward, non-philosophical culture.
Now, there is real rape (i.e. sex because of threat to ones life) and then there is women’s mischief when she gets involved or leads on a man either on purpose or because her naivete and lack of social understanding and ends up sleeping with someone she doesn’t like (yet does not REMOVE HERSELF nor simply leave. (i.e. a woman who REFUSES to take responsibility for her actions). I have great compassion for the former, I have none for the latter.
What a person feels or perceives incorrect isn’t reality, and many of both sexes don’t live long enough to relieve themselves of their misconceptions about each other depending on their life experiences.
There are genuine neurological conditions out there that make men socially blind. Aspergers and autism spectrum disorders for instance: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers
Hence these boys/men when they try to enter the dating world may be accused of “stalking” women or being “Creepy” when they can’t read body language or “get hints” you have to tell them in the spoken word directly what you mean and not “hint” at it.
Now these people aren’t rapists of course, but women might misunderstand their behavior as someone who is “creepy” or that of a “rapist”, when these people just don’t understand what you are communicating.
Many problems with today comes from women’s and men’s own ignorance and cultural indoctrination, also because our state of scientific understanding is not that good and we’re loaded down with busy work, we don’t have the free time to become very wise, wisdom usually only comes with one’s dedication and effort to understand the truth, and that means going against your own feelings and ignoring them to find the truth.
The truth of the matter is, our judgments are not very accurate. If we could scientifically predict if a rapist would rape again, and we had some kind of personality reconditioning (i.e. mind or neuron altering technology) we could “fix” or heal these people.
I wasn’t being serious, I was trying to take the logic ALL the way through to the extremes, if we’re going to kill somebody we better have all the damn facts at hand - thats my opinion on the issue. Not that I endorse violence/capital punishment specifically against all rapists or criminals everywhere.
If you (society) kills the “rapist”, you better not be driven emotionally in your judgment by such a stigmatized and loaded word like “Rape” (which just means held hostage for sex). So you need to be possessed by a collected rationality, no matter how horrible the situation so you don’t lose your head.
Peoples emotions spread like wildfire, they are like a disease. They can be used for good or bad, hence it’s always necessary to remain calm and collected when discussing serious matters so we see the truth, as all real philosophers should!
Anyone who considers himself or herself a philosopher better be able to reject his or her emotional feelings on all matters outright and carefully examine everything with as much time and care as necessary, as not to deceive our selves.
You know that much of our society is based on myths, lies and half truths (i.e. people live under them, spread them, and believe them). That is partly why the world is filled with so much evil.
False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil. --Socrates
I took your view seriously, and I stood up for the innocent party. I can see that the rape charge can be misused, but your proposal is, in my eyes, unacceptable. If you kill both parties every time then there is a 100% chance that an innocent person will be killed. If you drag the case through a trial, then there is at least a chance that the prosecution will not be able to convict the falsely-accused.
Who should kill the rapists? Why not allow vengeance murders by families of raped girls. It’s a matter of honor in some countries. And I think in Genesis, two of the sons of Jacob killed in subterfuge the whole clan of a rapist of one of their sisters. (Genesis: Chapter 34)
All this is predicated on the instance that the girl in question was a virgin.
We should send all violent criminals to what ever war zone is the hottest and turn them loose to face our enemy, if they beat the enemy soldiers they get freedom, if they turn on us, they get napalmed. If they do nothing well, shock collors comes to mind.
It’s obvious that you DIDN’T read it. A girl who falsely accuses a man of rape should be a crime, and I told you I was being absurd (taking the logic to the extremes). If you think you are justified in killing a rapist, then why not kill the ones who falsely cry rape?
Say we have the rape death penalty, in our permanently observed society. So any man who rapes another woman will be put to death, now why shouldn’t a woman who falsely accuses a man of rape not be put to death? A false accuser is just as bad as the rapist himself, especially in circumstances without perfect knowledge of what’s going on inside her little distorted world.
The rapist violates a persons identity (ego)
The false accuser looks to subversively harm (put to death) the rapist by her false accusation because she wishes the man dead.
The reason why Cho of Virginia tech massacre is often seen in a bad light is because everything that happened to that kid was hidden from our view, he talked about being beaten and having had garbage shoved down his throat, etc. Obviously a wounded animal will lash out if people keep violently teasing or attacking it like hyena’s.
I’m certain many of the people who victimized and bully’d cho deserved some form of severe punishment, but he took it upon himself to judge them, but he did so too harshly. He didn’t grasp that:
People are locked in their own world, not all people mature at the same rate, even university students and so called “adults”.
That what other people did to him all his life in small doses (i.e. different people acting mean over the course of his life) is not a justification for killing others, no matter how hard it is to take.
Since each new person has no clue what you’ve been through right?
Or we could strap bombs to their chests then detonate them when they get close to the enemy. Or we could just leave it to the legal system to handle it the way the Constitution says. I’ll take the latter.
I was equalizing the LOGIC, rape involves two parties: Man and a woman, and women today are not these creatures of perfect love and harmony as they appear to be in your mind. It is clear, that your thoughts aren’t.
You did but you’d notice I was being flippant – note what my very first statement was "Should we kill people who think poorly or are bad philosophers? hmm… "
On a forum your mind is adding meaning where there is none, so you cannot hear my voice inflection.
My bad reasoning? I was trying to look out for the male species, obviously you’ve never been falsely accused of anything by women, lucky you!
Ummmm, if we did do this it would have to be the legal system that did this. The constitution can be ammended, heck, they have already butchered and destroyed the original constitution by drowning it in ammendments, so may as well add one more.
If you had an experience in which a woman falsely accused you of rape, I can see how your perception of all women can become tainted. Most women, however, do not go out and have sex with a guy only to turn around and accuse him of rape. Most women are not that vile. Yes, there are women out there who use sex to taint a man’s reputation. But even these women don’t do it just for fun; a woman who does that usually does so for a reason, one of which would be to “get back at” a guy for something (a vigilante justice, of sorts). A woman who is willing to drag an innocent man through a trial (and be willing to confront hostility from his side) must either be “crazy” or have a darn good reason for doing so.
“A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.”
Instead of killing rapists why not set up a social networking site where they can meet people who also like to rape, or people who like to be raped. Think about the advertising dollars that could generate!! Maybe ILP could even have a section like that!!
Don’t forget I was purposely being absurd with and extreme in the whole logic.
I don’t believe ALL rapists deserve the death penality because
Some rapes are from psychological or neurological issues I’m most certain that someone has something functionally wrong with them in some way that went unchecked.
The only kind of rapists that I would consider worthy of the death penalty are those that did it purposely for their own enjoyment but had no problems getting other women.
Considering we’re talking about killing people, and values are relative to power of group identity. I could hardly be called a bigot. We just have a culture of hostility towards the act of rape, we have injected culturally overemotional power to the word “rape”.
Just like we do when we call men “sexual predators” but when women “prey” on men, everyone wants to give him a high five.
( Hopefully he or she is still around because I take delight in reading their posts.)
Anyhow I find it strange how moral judgements relay murder and rape as being wrong but at the same time are willing to murder rapists not to mention simaltaneously their willingness to rape people into poverty by economical standards with famous catch words like “responsibility” or “earn”.