Human Supersession

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Human Supersession

Postby Gloominary » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:05 am

If humans were to go extinct, what animal would be next in line to evolve big enough brains, with enough folds, to build a civilization...or something like it, high society and technology?
Obviously the most intelligent animals today are the candidates to become around and about as intelligent as, or more intelligent than we are now.
Off the top of my head, as far as humans can ascertain, the most intelligent vertebrates are mammals and birds, like other primates, elephants and cetaceans (dolphins, whales...), or parrots and corvids (crows, jays, magpies, ravens...).
The most intelligent arthropods are probably the social insects: ants, bees and termites.
The most intelligent mollusks are cephalopods: squid, octopi, cuttlefish.
Are humans a one off, or is it possible the aforementioned species could evolve to a point where they could produce something like a civilization, and if so, given their unique anatomy and socioneurology, how might such a civilization differ from ours?
Last edited by Gloominary on Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Human Supersession

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:09 am

Humanity would destroy the entire planet on the way out the exit door therefore none.
"The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone."

"I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death."

-Thomas Hobbes-


"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte

“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.”― Marquis de Sade

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party gives a flying fuck about you." - Unknown Origin

“In the architecture of their life some may display Potemkin happiness in view of hiding the dark features of their fair weather relationship, preferring to set up a window dressing of fake satisfaction rather than being rejected as emotional outcasts." Erik Pevernagie
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Re: Human Supersession

Postby Serendipper » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:18 am

Gloominary wrote:If humans were to go extinct, what animal would be next in line to evolve big enough brains, with enough folds, to build a civilization...or something like it, high society and technology?

Apes. The animal would need thumbs to use tools.
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Re: Human Supersession

Postby Gloominary » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:36 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:Humanity would destroy the entire planet on the way out the exit door therefore none.

Not necessarily if we killed ourselves with a super virus we concocted.
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Re: Human Supersession

Postby Gloominary » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:39 pm

Serendipper wrote:
Gloominary wrote:If humans were to go extinct, what animal would be next in line to evolve big enough brains, with enough folds, to build a civilization...or something like it, high society and technology?

Apes. The animal would need thumbs to use tools.

Why's that?
Elephants can use their trunks.
Crows and parrots can use their beaks, they've already been found fashioning simple tools in the wild.
Ants and bees already build amazing things, which may get even more sophisticated eons from now.
Octopi and squid can use their tentacles.
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Re: Human Supersession

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:40 pm

Gloominary wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:Humanity would destroy the entire planet on the way out the exit door therefore none.

Not necessarily if we killed ourselves with a super virus we concocted.

Which 500 plus nuclear plants around the world would go unattended.
"The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone."

"I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death."

-Thomas Hobbes-


"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte

“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.”― Marquis de Sade

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party gives a flying fuck about you." - Unknown Origin

“In the architecture of their life some may display Potemkin happiness in view of hiding the dark features of their fair weather relationship, preferring to set up a window dressing of fake satisfaction rather than being rejected as emotional outcasts." Erik Pevernagie
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Re: Human Supersession

Postby Gloominary » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:44 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:
Gloominary wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:Humanity would destroy the entire planet on the way out the exit door therefore none.

Not necessarily if we killed ourselves with a super virus we concocted.

Which 500 plus nuclear plants around the world would go unattended.

While that will devastate some regions of the world, many others will be fine.
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Re: Human Supersession

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:46 pm

Gloominary wrote:While that will devastate some regions of the world, many others will be fine.


Not if it contaminates the oceans or much of the world's fresh water supplies.
"The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone."

"I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death."

-Thomas Hobbes-


"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte

“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.”― Marquis de Sade

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party gives a flying fuck about you." - Unknown Origin

“In the architecture of their life some may display Potemkin happiness in view of hiding the dark features of their fair weather relationship, preferring to set up a window dressing of fake satisfaction rather than being rejected as emotional outcasts." Erik Pevernagie
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Re: Human Supersession

Postby Gloominary » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:35 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:
Gloominary wrote:While that will devastate some regions of the world, many others will be fine.


Not if it contaminates the oceans or much of the world's fresh water supplies.

I have to do more studying on this, but I'm sure some macroscopic life forms would survive.
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Re: Human Supersession

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:44 pm

All of the below...

https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/anima ... mals-earth

It would take great mutual effort to perpetuate the world.
Individually and collectively, they all bring something to the table.

There is no *I* in team. :lol:
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

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Re: Human Supersession

Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:13 am

Gloominary wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:
Gloominary wrote:While that will devastate some regions of the world, many others will be fine.


Not if it contaminates the oceans or much of the world's fresh water supplies.

I have to do more studying on this, but I'm sure some macroscopic life forms would survive.

Yes please do. Most life depends on the oceans and fresh water including single cell life forms and micro organisms both being the basic building blocks of life as we know it on this planet.
"The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone."

"I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death."

-Thomas Hobbes-


"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte

“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.”― Marquis de Sade

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party gives a flying fuck about you." - Unknown Origin

“In the architecture of their life some may display Potemkin happiness in view of hiding the dark features of their fair weather relationship, preferring to set up a window dressing of fake satisfaction rather than being rejected as emotional outcasts." Erik Pevernagie
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Re: Human Supersession

Postby Gloominary » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:19 am

Arcturus Descending wrote:All of the below...

https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/anima ... mals-earth

It would take great mutual effort to perpetuate the world.
Individually and collectively, they all bring something to the table.

There is no *I* in team. :lol:

Yea maybe multiple sentient species from earth will build a civilzation together one day, that would make for some interesting science fiction.
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Re: Human Supersession

Postby Gloominary » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:20 am

Myself I think other than nonhuman primates, crows and magpies are the most likely to develop sufficient sentience to build a civilization, they're both extremely smart, social, and capable of making tools, without being taught by humans how to do so.
They're also capable of improving their designs, and passing this knowledge down to the next generation, perhaps inadvertently through mimicry, or perhaps advertently through mentoring, I don't think scientists know yet.
If they have a drive to impart knowledge and behavior patterns, then they have culture.

Crows have been observed holding funerals for their dead.
Magpies are one of the few non-mammalian animals to pass the 'mirror test', indicating a high degree of self-consciousness, a test the vast majority of mammals fail.
Also, I've noticed magpies don't seem to call or sing like other birds, they sound like they possess language.

Listen:



What would crow or magpie civilization look like?
Would they domesticate plants and other animals?
Since they have feathers, they may not need clothes.
Would they live in birdhouses of their own construction?
Would they practice medicine?
Would they fashion different implements for eating, drinking, writing and making war?
Would they have different professions?

Let's hope crows and magpies survive, and do a better job of things than us.
Parrots and elephants are also good candidates.

Altho the social insects don't seem to have anything like language or culture, or maybe they do and we just don't know enough about them yet, they're highly socially and materially organized and industrious.
Ants even have domestication, they care for other invertebrates so they can use them for various things.

As for dolphins and whales, I can't even imagine what a totally underwater civilization would look like, and while they're extremely smart and social, I don't think their mouths are equipped with the dexterity to fashion tools.
Water is very...watery, it doesn't seem to be conducive to structuring things the way land in air is.

While octopi and squid seem quite bright, especially their visual spatial intelligence, they don't seem very social, and civilization by definition requires a high degree of sociability, but I'm sure we still have a lot to learn about them.

As for cows and pigs, while they seem pretty smart, especially the latter, they're presently incapable of tool use.

Rodents don't seem that smart to me, but I'm no expert.
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