The Great Musician Frank Zappa and His Philosophy.

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The Great Musician Frank Zappa and His Philosophy.

Postby Arminius » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:42 pm

    Was the great musician Frank Zappa also a great philosopher?

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              "Was he what he were?"
      The question of whether Frank Zappa was also a great philosopher, is not as serious meant as it seems.

      Is, for example, the title of Zappa's first LP - "Fraek Out" - already a philosophical statement or just similar to some statements here on "ILP"?

      Contains, for example, the title of Zappa's second LP - "Absolutely Free" - an ontology of the will, thus a metaphysical and thus a philosophical statement?

      Is, for example, the title of Zappa's third LP - "We're Only in It for the Money" - a philosophical statement or just similar to some statements here on "ILP"?

      Image

      What do you think?

      Wikipedia wrote:Zappa uniquely contributed to the avant-garde, anti-establishment music scene of the 60's, sampling radio tape recordings and incorporating his own philosophical ideals to music and freedom of expression in his pieces. Bands such as AMM and Faust also contributed to the radio sampling techniques of the 60's, yet Zappa was unique in his mixtures of rock, classical, jazz, and avant-garde styles of composition. He is credited by musicologists as making a fundamental contribution to the studies of how sound determines music, and music sound.

      ....

      Describing his philosophical views, Zappa stated, "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."

      ....

      On commenting on Zappa's music, politics and philosophy, Barry Miles noted in 2004 that they cannot be separated: "It was all one; all part of his 'conceptual continuity'."

      Zappa also said for example: „You are what you is“. That is lingustically false but peotically allowed. My question: Is it also philosophically false?



      My advice: Please do not take this thread too seriously.
      Last edited by Arminius on Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:31 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby GreatandWiseTrixie » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:05 pm

      Mediocre musician, mediocre philosopher. What's with that rat's nest he calls a mane?
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby Arminius » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:51 pm

      GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:What's with that rat's nest he calls a mane?

      "It is what it are." :wink:
      __________

      Compare:

      "You are what you is" - Frank Zappa, 1981.

      :-k
      Last edited by Arminius on Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:25 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby Zoot Allures » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:52 pm

      The greatest composer of the twentieth century, Arminius, and an excellent musician. Very intelligent, but scientifically minded.. not big on philosophy. Atheist and practical conservative. Father of four. His music could not be classified; there was [insert musical genres] and then there was Frank Vincent Zappa.

      Mediocre musician


      Trixie, you are now on ignore until further notice.

      Talk to Ruth. I can't bear to even look at you right now.

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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby GreatandWiseTrixie » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:57 pm

      Zoot Allures wrote:Trixie, you are now on ignore until further notice.


      If a giant puts a wall next to the ant, does the giant not find it amusing when the ant changes it's direction? Even more amusing when the ant puts the wall there on it's own "volition."
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby GreatandWiseTrixie » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:00 pm



      All I see is an ape pounding on bamboo shoots.
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby Zoot Allures » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:14 pm

      All I see is an ape pounding on bamboo shoots.


      Frank's gonna tell you the way it is, you lonely little girl.
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby GreatandWiseTrixie » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:25 pm

      Zoot Allures wrote:
      All I see is an ape pounding on bamboo shoots.


      Frank's gonna tell you the way it is, you lonely little girl.

      Gay and super gay.

      Mediocre mediocre mediocre...
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby Zoot Allures » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:30 pm

      No, this is gay, disco boy.
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby GreatandWiseTrixie » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:40 pm

      Zoot Allures wrote:No, this is gay, disco boy.

      Disgusting and filthy.
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby GreatandWiseTrixie » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:45 pm

      It's no wonder his songs are only 1 minute long. Most of them are so boring. I couldn't even watch discoboy to the end, it was so tedious.
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby Arminius » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:12 am

      Zoot Allures wrote:The greatest composer of the twentieth century, Arminius, and an excellent musician. Very intelligent, but scientifically minded.. not big on philosophy. Atheist and practical conservative. Father of four. His music could not be classified; there was [insert musical genres] and then there was Frank Vincent Zappa.

      I know Frank Zappa's music very well and I saw Frank Zappa in Germany several times - a long time ago.

      In addition: December 21 - the birthday of both Frank Zappa and Arminius. :D

      To me Frank Zappa was the second greatest, because Carl Orff (1895-1982) was the greatest composer of the twentieth century. See also here.

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      Bust of Carl Orff in München,
      Ruhmeshalle (= hall of fame).

      ____________________________

      An information about the Zappanale:

      Zappanale is an annual music festival held outside Bad Doberan, a German town .... The festival was first held in 1990, and the program features various bands performing the music of the late composer and guitarist Frank Zappa. Many musicians who have previously played with Zappa have performed at the festival over the years.

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      Bust of Frank Zappa in Bad Doberan.

      Zoot Allures wrote:
      Mediocre musician

      Trixie, you are now on ignore until further notice.

      :lol:

      Oh, wait. Will my name be on your ignore list, Zoot Allures, because I said that Frank Zappa was merely the second greatest composer of the twentieth century?
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby GreatandWiseTrixie » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:32 am

      Zappa is a garbage composer. Its the equivalent of a clown on autotune, sitting at a campfire making improv music to computer generated rythms. Even a nigger could do better.
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby Zoot Allures » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:50 am

      Zappa is a garbage composer. Its the equivalent of a clown on autotune, sitting at a campfire making improv music to computer generated rythms. Even a nigger could do better.


      We'll let that go because considering you probably struggle even to play Mary Had A Little Lamb on the piano, your musical incompetence is excused, for now.

      Meanwhile, get to know the guy before you judge him. You're under the impression that he is a idiot because of the samples of music that I have given you. There is a comedic element to his overall style.. something purposely designed as a form of social criticism during the periods in which the songs were written, but he is also a very serious composer.

      You have no idea who you are talking about here. The Beatles? Elvis Presley? The Rolling Stones? Child's play, Trixie.

      Stick around, I'll show you.
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby GreatandWiseTrixie » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:56 am

      Zoot Allures wrote:
      Zappa is a garbage composer. Its the equivalent of a clown on autotune, sitting at a campfire making improv music to computer generated rythms. Even a nigger could do better.


      We'll let that go because considering you probably struggle even to play Mary Had A Little Lamb on the piano, your musical incompetence is excused, for now.

      Meanwhile, get to know the guy before you judge him. You're under the impression that he is a idiot because of the samples of music that I have given you. There is a comedic element to his overall style.. something purposely designed as a form of social criticism during the periods in which the songs were written, but he is also a very serious composer.

      You have no idea who you are talking about here. The Beatles? Elvis Presley? The Rolling Stones? Child's play, Trixie.

      Stick around, I'll show you.


      You insult my intelligience, peon.

      I am aware of his pathetic attempts at humor in his music, which is the only way the masses find his music palatable, because it cannot be taken seriously. Because it is unorthodox, and cannot be taken seriously, it achieves avant-garde status, because the moderns like any piece of art, including paint on a wall by a chimpanzee, simply because it is unorthodox, and something unusual, similar to the 12 tone fad.
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby Arminius » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:17 am

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      "Civility please, gentlemen."
      - Onyl Humean (moderator).

      Great and Wise Trixie, relax - please, relax - and listen to "Zoot Allures":



      But here comes my question again: What about Frank Zappa's philosophy?
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby Zoot Allures » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:38 am

      Wait, don't listen to it! Listen to the studio version first, it's always cleaner.

      About his philosophy: I've read his biography and the quotes that are found on the internet. There are bits and pieces of religious criticism and political commentary, but nothing really straight forwardly philosophical. He was interested in science more than anything (his biography was dedicated to Stephen Hawking, in fact). Of course you can glean philosophical meaning from some of his song lyrics once in a while, but nothing officially philosophical.
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby Arminius » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:59 am

      Zoot Allures wrote:Wait, don't listen to it! Listen to the studio version first, it's always cleaner.

      Yes, I know, but unfortunately I can't open it - like the most of Zappa's music, especially his studio versions, as I already told you once in another thread. The reasons are the copyrights.

      There are two Zappa songs I like the most: "Apostrophe" (1974) and "The Purple Lagoon" (1977).

      Zoot Allures wrote:About his philosophy: I've read his biography and the quotes that are found on the internet. There are bits and pieces of religious criticism and political commentary, but nothing really straight forwardly philosophical. He was interested in science more than anything (his biography was dedicated to Stephen Hawking, in fact).

      I am also interested in science more than anything. But the older I have become the more my critique of science has increased.

      Zoot Allures wrote:Of course you can glean philosophical meaning from some of his song lyrics once in a while, but nothing officially philosophical.

      Did he never say anything about the most famous philosophers?

      I know that he was religiously and politically incorrect. So he was quite correct. :)
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby GreatandWiseTrixie » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:46 am

      Arminius wrote:Image
      "Civility please, gentlemen."
      - Onyl Humean (moderator).

      Great and Wise Trixie, relax - please, relax - and listen to "Zoot Allures":


      Why should I be civil when he rapes my ears with this shtick he calls music? It's so...boring.
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:58 am

      I think the guy in the photo in the original post needs a haircut, don't you think? How is it possible for a man who not only accepts but glorifies taking photos in a messy physical state be capable of composing good music? Alright, there are exceptions, but don't you think this is his general attitude towards life? to be sloppy? to disobey laws, to be against any sort of discipline? Isn't that what all rock 'n' roll, and later on, punk music is all about? To be an ugly leper celebrating ugliness?

      How can you compare Carl Orff to Frank Zappa?
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby GreatandWiseTrixie » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:01 am

      Magnus Anderson wrote:I think the guy in the photo in the original post needs a haircut, don't you think? How is it possible for a man who not only accepts but glorifies taking photos in a messy physical state be capable of composing good music? Alright, there are exceptions, but don't you think this is his general attitude towards life? to be sloppy? to disobey laws, to be against any sort of discipline? Isn't that what all rock 'n' roll, and later on, punk music is all about? To be an ugly leper celebrating ugliness?

      How can you compare Carl Orff to Frank Zappa?

      The rock and roll I listen to celebrates Valhalla values, witch values, your values, my values. Zappa is not my kind of rock and roll, its more like just a rock, but without the roll.

      Quotes from Zappa
      "I never listened to stuff like Mozart, Bach, and Beethoven. It just didn't sound interesting to me."

      Zappa's philosophy
      "One day I discovered that if you took a missle, and added ten warheads to the missle, instead of just one, you can blow more things up. I was impressed with the atomic bomb"
      Last edited by GreatandWiseTrixie on Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby Arminius » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:02 am

      GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
      Arminius wrote:Image
      "Civility please, gentlemen."
      - Onyl Humean (moderator).

      Great and Wise Trixie, relax - please, relax - and listen to "Zoot Allures":


      Why should I be civil when he rapes my ears with this shtick he calls music? It's so...boring.

      What kind of music do you prefer then?
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby GreatandWiseTrixie » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:05 am

      Videogame music, some rock and roll, classical music, a couple of 90's pop songs, my little pony songs.
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby Arminius » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:29 am

      Magnus Anderson wrote:I think the guy in the photo in the original post needs a haircut, don't you think? How is it possible for a man who not only accepts but glorifies taking photos in a messy physical state be capable of composing good music? Alright, there are exceptions, but don't you think this is his general attitude towards life? to be sloppy? to disobey laws, to be against any sort of discipline? Isn't that what all rock 'n' roll, and later on, punk music is all about? To be an ugly leper celebrating ugliness?

      I was joking a bit. The photo was satirically meant. Zappa would probably have done the same as I did with his photo, because Zappa was not always serious.

      Magnus Anderson wrote:How can you compare Carl Orff to Frank Zappa?

      Actually I would never compare Carl Orff to Frank Zappa, but I did it in this case, because of the fact that I like classical music as well as rock music and of the fact that I was quickly confronted with Carl Orff to Frank Zappa when Zoot Allures' said something about the best composer of the 20th centurry in his first post of this thread.
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      Re: Was the Great Musician Frank Zappa also a Graet Philosop

      Postby GreatandWiseTrixie » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:33 am

      Best rock composer of the 20th century is probably Peter Gabriel.
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