philosophy in film

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:56 am

THREE COLORS: WHITE
Directed by Krzysztof Kieslowski

Karol: [to the man who wanted help committing suicide] That was a blank. The next one's real. Are you sure?

He wasn't.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:31 am

THREE COLORS: RED
Directed by Krzysztof Kieslowski

Valentine: I'm sorry. I ran over your dog, Rita. A German shepard.
The Judge: That's possible. She disappeared yesterday.
Valentine: She's in my car....alive. I don't know what to do.
[pause]
Should I take her to a veternarian?
The Judge: As you wish.
Valentine: If I ran over your daughter would you be so indifferent?
The Judge: I have no daughter , miss. Go away.


Later...

The Judge: Why did you pick up Rita?
Valentine: Because I had run over her. She was bleeding.
The Judge: Otherwise, you'd have felt guilty. You'd have dreams of a dog with a crushed skull.
Valentine: Yes.
The Judge: So who did you do it for?


This cynicism dissolves later in the script. But is it any more or less reasonable?
...

Valentine: Michel, tell me...do you love me?
Michel: I think so.
Valentine: You love me or you think so?
Michel: It's the same thing.

...

The Judge: I want nothing.
Valentine: Then stop breathing.
The Judge: Good idea.

...

The Judge: Deciding what is true and what isn't now seems to me...a lack of modesty.
Valentine: Vanity?
The Judge: Vanity.

...

Valentine: You're not afraid?
The Judge: I wonder what I'd do in their place. The same thing.
Valentine: You'd throw stones?
The Judge: In their place? Of course. And that goes for everyone I judged. Given their lives, I would steal, I'd kill, I'd lie. Of course I would. All that because I wasn't in their shoes, but mine.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:03 pm

THE IDES OF MARCH
Directed by George Clooney


Stephen Meyers: I can't find the goddamn polls!

...

Stephen: Because you wanna win. Because you broke the only rule in politics. You wanna be president? You can start a war, you can lie, you can cheat, you can bankrupt the country, but you can't fuck the interns. They get you for that.

...

Paul: Well, one day we'll grab a beer and you can tell me what you had on the governor that put me out.
Stephen: How do you know I didn't have something on you?


Here's the thing though: Clooney exposes [going all the way back to Mr Smith Goes to Washington] Hollywood's rendition of the jaded, cynical opportunists in American politics. Then he hosts a dinner for Barack "change we can all believe in" Obama who, in his own way, is smack dab in the middle of all this!

Is Clooney the starfucker here?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:04 am

THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO
Directed by David Fincher

Mikael: Rape, torture, fire, animals, religion. Am I missing anything?
Lisbeth: The names. They're all biblical

...

Henrik: You will be investigating thieves, misers, bullies. The most detestable collection of people that you will ever meet - my family.

...

Martin: The fear of offending is stronger than the fear of pain.

...

Bjurman: Would you prefer institutionalization?

...

Lisbeth: [to Bjurman] I just want to know, am I going to have to do this every time I need money to eat?

...

Bjurman: I forgot to ask you...[rips open condom package]...you like anal sex?


But then, on her next visit:

Lisbeth: [to Bjurman] Good. You're alive. You recognize this? I had it with me last time. I set it here, remember? And this snap, you see it? It's not a snap. It's a wide angle fiber-optics lens.
[plays video of Bjurman raping her]
: I thought it was going to be another blow job, which is disgusting enough. But I misjudged just how sick you are. Okay, here's what is going to happen.
[inserts anal plug into Bjurman]
Pay attention. Look at me!
[tasers Bjurman]
Once you can sit again, which could be a while, I admit, we're going to go to my bank and tell them that I alone have access to my money. Nod.
Bjurman: [nods yes]
Lisbeth: After that you will never contact me again. Each month you will prepare a report of a meeting that we will never have. In it you'll describe how well I'm doing. How sociable I'm becoming. Then you will negotiate with the court to have my declaration of incompetence lifted. If you fail, this video will spread across the internet like a virus. Nod.
Bjurman: [nods yes]
Lisbeth: And if anything should happen to me. If I get run over by a car. If you run me over with a car. This will upload automatically. Nod that you understand.
Bjurman: [nods yes]
Lisbeth: [picks up Bjurman's pants] Ooh, Gabardine. I'm taking the keys to this apartment because I'll be checking on you. And if I find a girl in here with you, whether she came of her own free will or not.
[Bjurman nods to the video]
Lisbeth: No, not the video. I'll kill you. Do you doubt anything I've said? Do you doubt what's in the reports that have followed me around all my life? What do they say, if you had to sum it up? They say I'm insane.
[Bjurman desperately nods no]
Lisbeth: No, it's okay. You can nod because it's true. I am insane.


No, not really. She just lives her life...outside the lines?
Last edited by iambiguous on Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby fuse » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:21 am

iambiguous wrote:Lisbeth: No, not the video. I'll kill you. Do you doubt anything I've said? Do you doubt what's in the reports that have followed me around all my life? What do they say, if you had to sum it up? They say I'm insane.
[Bjurman desperately nods no]
Lisbeth: No, it's okay. You can nod because it's true. I am insane.

No, not really. She just lives her life...outside the lines?

The situation she was in with her "guardian" was insane. When the conditions of your life are so whacked, "insane" measures make sense and help you survive. It wasn't likely any "proper" authority would have believed Lisbeth about the abuse, considering her history and reputation. She had to deal with the matter herself, by the means available to her, in a way that would end the abuse with near certainty.
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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:08 pm

fuse wrote:
iambiguous wrote:Lisbeth: No, not the video. I'll kill you. Do you doubt anything I've said? Do you doubt what's in the reports that have followed me around all my life? What do they say, if you had to sum it up? They say I'm insane.
[Bjurman desperately nods no]
Lisbeth: No, it's okay. You can nod because it's true. I am insane.

No, not really. She just lives her life...outside the lines?

The situation she was in with her "guardian" was insane. When the conditions of your life are so whacked, "insane" measures make sense and help you survive. It wasn't likely any "proper" authority would have believed Lisbeth about the abuse, considering her history and reputation. She had to deal with the matter herself, by the means available to her, in a way that would end the abuse with near certainty.


"Insane", yes. But she seemed to embody Nietzsche's notion that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. The end of the movie reminded me of Andy Dufresne going from bank to bank in The Shawshank Redemption.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby fuse » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:18 pm

iambiguous wrote:
fuse wrote:
iambiguous wrote:No, not really. She just lives her life...outside the lines?

The situation she was in with her "guardian" was insane. When the conditions of your life are so whacked, "insane" measures make sense and help you survive. It wasn't likely any "proper" authority would have believed Lisbeth about the abuse, considering her history and reputation. She had to deal with the matter herself, by the means available to her, in a way that would end the abuse with near certainty.


"Insane", yes. But she seemed to embody Nietzsche's notion that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. The end of the movie reminded me of Andy Dufresne going from bank to bank in The Shawshank Redemption.

I've always wondered, what exactly did Nietzsche mean by that statement? Of course it's not true in an unconditional sense, for being wounded such that a limb has to be amputated certainly does not leave you stronger or open up any potential to be stronger that wasn't possible before. However, there are contexts in which N's statement rings brilliantly profound such as the case with being exposed bacteria and allergens early on in life leading to the development of a stronger, more resistant immune system for life. But what the hell did Nietzsche have in mind? If it was simply the sentiment that hardship can strengthen skills and resolve, well that's fairly common wisdom.
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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:25 pm

What is fascinating [to me] is not whether Marla did the paintings...but the discussions that revolved around reactions to art in general and modern art in particular.

MY KID COULD PAINT THAT
A documentary by Amir Bar-Lev

Michael Kimmelman: In a case like Marla, because it touches on all sorts of deep-rooted issues about whether modern art is real or not, it has a kind of strange, hypnotic appeal to it. So, I wrote something that seemed to interest me, really, about the complications of abstract art. Why people don't seem to really feel that there's some way of judging what's good, what's bad.

There is this large idea out there that abstract art, and modern art in general, has no standards, no truths. And that if a child can do it, that it, sort of, pulls the veil off this con game, and shows you that somebody who is 4 years old can do something every bit as good as what a famous artist who sells pictures for millions of dollars could do. That idea that art is not really about some truth but it's about some lie being foisted on a public....that abstract art in general and modern art in particular, is one kind of racket, is a put-on.

If you take an artist like Pollack, you know, everyone basically figured this is the ultimate example of modern art gone crazy. It's a guy dripping, splashing paint. Pollock literally invented a whole new way of painting. The photographs of him just dripping and splashing, walking around these canvases made it look that much more like he was really not an artist.

...

Reporter: My mother had a thing against Pollock. She hated his paintings because she felt like every time she saw a Jackson Pollock painting, it was saying, "You're stupid and I'm not, and there's people smarter than you that get me". She felt personally insulted by his paintings.

...

Michael Kimmelman: ....money, money is the ultimate, sort of distorting thing [in the art world].

...

Michael Kimmelman: I think one of the fundamental problems people have with art, because a lot of it used to be transparently clear, it was telling a story, that there's some assumption that art has an obligation to explain itself to you. And that if it doesn't that, somehow, it's the art's fault. But modernism wanted to tell a variety of stories. Now, it continues to tell stories. There's narrative in all sorts of art. If we're talking about abstract painting there are still stories being told. They may be stories about the characters who made these pictures and that was the case with Pollock.

...

Michael Kimmelman: [Marla's 4 year old] innocence also says something about the ultimate cynicism of the art world. There's a lot of art that's been made, especially in the modern era, which is about alienating its viewership. This idea of actually, kind of, sticking it to the very people who are supposed to be patronizing it. Probably the worst thing you can say about an artist is, everything this artist does is joyous and wonderful, and openhearted and just simple and free. In certain circles, that might sound like you're not serious. I think, probably, some of the appeal, though, to a large public of the Marlas of the world, is that it seems pure, innocent joy, no cynicism, no irony, no sarcasm. None of that kind of stuff that goes along with modern art. You know, nobody's saying "fuck you" in this picture. They're just saying, "I'm a happy girl who loves painting."

...

Michael Kimmelman: All writers, all storytellers, are imposing their own narrative on something. I mean, all art in some ways is a lie. It looks like a picture of something, but it isn't that thing, it's a representation of that thing... Your documentary is itself going to be a lie. It's a construction of things, it's how you wish to represent the truth and how you've decided to tell a particular story. By that I don't mean that certain things don't happen. Of course they do. It's not that there is no such thing as truth. But we come to like and trust a certain story, not because it's necessarily the most absolutely truthful, but because it's a thing that we tell ourselves that makes sense of the world, at least at this moment.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:27 pm

fuse wrote:I've always wondered, what exactly did Nietzsche mean by that statement? Of course it's not true in an unconditional sense, for being wounded such that a limb has to be amputated certainly does not leave you stronger or open up any potential to be stronger that wasn't possible before. However, there are contexts in which N's statement rings brilliantly profound such as the case with being exposed bacteria and allergens early on in life leading to the development of a stronger, more resistant immune system for life. But what the hell did Nietzsche have in mind? If it was simply the sentiment that hardship can strengthen skills and resolve, well that's fairly common wisdom.


Well put.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby fuse » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:03 am

iambiguous wrote:
fuse wrote:I've always wondered, what exactly did Nietzsche mean by that statement? Of course it's not true in an unconditional sense, for being wounded such that a limb has to be amputated certainly does not leave you stronger or open up any potential to be stronger that wasn't possible before. However, there are contexts in which N's statement rings brilliantly profound such as the case with being exposed bacteria and allergens early on in life leading to the development of a stronger, more resistant immune system for life. But what the hell did Nietzsche have in mind? If it was simply the sentiment that hardship can strengthen skills and resolve, well that's fairly common wisdom.


Well put.

Thanks, so you're unsure of what N. meant as well?
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Re: philosophy in film

Postby Moreno » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:26 am

fuse wrote:I've always wondered, what exactly did Nietzsche mean by that statement? Of course it's not true in an unconditional sense, for being wounded such that a limb has to be amputated certainly does not leave you stronger or open up any potential to be stronger that wasn't possible before. However, there are contexts in which N's statement rings brilliantly profound such as the case with being exposed bacteria and allergens early on in life leading to the development of a stronger, more resistant immune system for life. But what the hell did Nietzsche have in mind? If it was simply the sentiment that hardship can strengthen skills and resolve, well that's fairly common wisdom.
I think he was just plain wrong. This spiritual machismo is present in a number of religions and subcultures and I think it has done a lot of damage. Sure, a person may be able to do things without worrying or hesitation they would not have been able to do without certain kinds of hardship and pain. But I think those who do this are cutting portions of themselves out, using or at least experiencing the harsh experiences as purging, toughening them up like leather. Scars instead of skin. A hopeless heart. Others, still in contact with the damaged parts of themselves function openly less well and do not appreciate what they went through in the way the ones who are positive about this do.

Surely we all know someone or have seen someone who has been shattered by experiences that did not kill them, but who have lived on, half or less the person they were before. Sure, it can be tough sometimes to see the loss in those who beat their chests and say I can take it. Or is it harder? seems it can be right on the surface with them also?

I can see how some people do manage to grow through horrible experiences, gaining empathy and depth of character, and this can be a kind of strength, but unless I missed something this is not the 'stronger' N was writing about.
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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:30 am

CITIZEN KANE
Directed by Oeson Welles

Emily: Really Charles, people will think...
Charles Foster Kane: ...what I tell them to think.

...

Bernstein: Old age. It's the only disease, Mr. Thompson, that you don't look forward to being cured of.

...

Bernstein: A fellow will remember a lot of things you wouldn't think he'd remember. You take me. One day, back in 1896, I was crossing over to Jersey on the ferry, and as we pulled out, there was another ferry pulling in, and on it there was a girl waiting to get off. A white dress she had on. She was carrying a white parasol. I only saw her for one second. She didn't see me at all, but I'll bet a month hasn't gone by since that I haven't thought of that girl.

...

Charles Foster Kane: Hello Jedediah.
Leland: Hello, Charlie. I didn't know we were speaking...
Charles Foster Kane: Sure, we're speaking, Jedediah: you're fired.

...

Leland: You talk about the people as if you owned them. As though they belong to you. Goodness. As long as I can remember you've talked about giving the people their rights...as if you could make them a present of liberty...as a reward for services rendered.
[pause]
Remember the workingman?....You used to write an awful lot about the workingman...but he's turning into something called "organized labor". You're not going to like that one little bit when you find out it means your workingman expects something as his right, and not your gift. When your precious underpriveleged really get together...Oh, boy....that's going to add up to something bigger than your privilege...
[pause]
You don't care about anything except you. You just want to persuade people that you love them so much that they ought to love you back. Only you want love on your own terms. It's something to be played your way, according to your rules.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:06 pm

MOON
Directed by Duncan Jones

Sam 1: Why would they do that? What's the motive?
Sam 2: Look, it's a company, right? They have investors. They have shareholders. Shit like that. What's cheaper, spending time and money training new personnel, or you just have a couple of spares here on the job. It's the far side of the moon. The cheap fucks haven't even fixed the communications satellite yet....They're laughing all the way to the bank.

...

Announcer 1: Lunar Industries stocks have slipped a further 32% after accusations...
Announcer 2: Clone 6, the clone of Sam Bell has been giving evidence at CAA's Board of Directors meeting in Seattle...
Man on talk radio: You know what? He's one of two things. He's a wacko or an illegal immigrant. Either way, they need to lock him up. Line two.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:45 pm

Grand Canyon...

Simon - You ever been to the Grand Canyon? Its pretty, but thats not the thing of it. You can sit on the edge of that big ol' thing and those rocks... the cliffs and rocks are so old... it took so long for that thing to get like that... and it ain't done either! It happens right there while your watching it. Its happening right now as we are sitting here in this ugly town. When you sit on the edge of that thing, you realize what a joke we people really are... what big heads we have thinking that what we do is gonna matter all that much... thinking that our time here means didly to those rocks. Just a split second we have been here, the whole lot of us. That's a piece of time so small to even get a name. Those rocks are laughing at me right now, me and my worries... Yeah, its real humorous, that Grand Canyon. Its laughing at me right now. You know what I felt like? I felt like a gnat that lands on the ass of a cow chewing his cud on the side of the road that you drive by doing 70 mph.
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
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Re: philosophy in film

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:59 pm

Legend of the Guardians

Noctus: [back at the Tree of the Guardians] We're so proud of you.
Soren: Dad. They're real.
Noctus: You made them real." -


Boron: When you've flown as far as you can, you're halfway there!
Gylfie: [confused] What did he say?
Digger: [ecstatic] We're halfway there! "
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
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Re: philosophy in film

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:35 pm

A River Runs through It

All there is to thinking is seeing something noticeable which makes you see something you weren't noticing which makes you see something that isn't even visible.”

Many of us would probably be better fishermen if we did not spend so much time watching and waiting for the world to become perfect”

I had as yet no notion that life every now and then becomes literature—not for long, of course, but long enough to be what we best remember, and often enough so that what we eventually come to mean by life are those moments when life, instead of going sideways, backwards, forward, or nowhere at all, lines out straight, tense and inevitable, with a complication, climax, and, given some luck, a purgation, as if life had been made and not happened.”

Each one of us here today will at one time in our lives look upon a loved one who is in need and ask the same question: We are willing to help, Lord, but what, if anything, is needed? For it is true we can seldom help those closest to us. Either we don't know what part of ourselves to give or, more often than not, the part we have to give is not wanted. And so it is those we live with and should know who elude us. But we can still love them - we can love completely without complete understanding.”
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:11 pm

LAST LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE
Directed by Pen-Ek Ratanaruang

Yukio: Suicide again? [looking up at the noose] Going to hang yourself this time?

...

"This is Bliss" --- Kenji's suicide note.


Instead, he goes on to meet the beautiful and mysterious Noi and that becomes bliss instead.

And [all the more blissfully] the end of the film is up to you to decide.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby fuse » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:00 pm

Moreno wrote:
fuse wrote:I've always wondered, what exactly did Nietzsche mean by that statement? Of course it's not true in an unconditional sense, for being wounded such that a limb has to be amputated certainly does not leave you stronger or open up any potential to be stronger that wasn't possible before. However, there are contexts in which N's statement rings brilliantly profound such as the case with being exposed bacteria and allergens early on in life leading to the development of a stronger, more resistant immune system for life. But what the hell did Nietzsche have in mind? If it was simply the sentiment that hardship can strengthen skills and resolve, well that's fairly common wisdom.
I think he was just plain wrong. This spiritual machismo is present in a number of religions and subcultures and I think it has done a lot of damage. Sure, a person may be able to do things without worrying or hesitation they would not have been able to do without certain kinds of hardship and pain. But I think those who do this are cutting portions of themselves out, using or at least experiencing the harsh experiences as purging, toughening them up like leather. Scars instead of skin. A hopeless heart. Others, still in contact with the damaged parts of themselves function openly less well and do not appreciate what they went through in the way the ones who are positive about this do.

Surely we all know someone or have seen someone who has been shattered by experiences that did not kill them, but who have lived on, half or less the person they were before. Sure, it can be tough sometimes to see the loss in those who beat their chests and say I can take it. Or is it harder? seems it can be right on the surface with them also?

I can see how some people do manage to grow through horrible experiences, gaining empathy and depth of character, and this can be a kind of strength, but unless I missed something this is not the 'stronger' N was writing about.

I don't have time to reply right now, but I think you might be interested in an article I just found addressing this topic and phrase of Nietzsche's.

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2012/01/hitchens-201201
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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:55 am

RELIGULOUS
Directed by Larry Charles

Bill Maher: These questions about what happens when you die, they so freak people out that they will just make up any story and cling to it. You know, things that they know can't be true, people who are otherwise so rational about everything else, and then they believe that on Sunday they're drinking the blood of a 2,000-year-old God. I can't-- that's a dissonance in my head. I can't-- I have to find out.

...

Yeah, you could be right. I don't think it's very likely, but, yes, you could be right, because my big thing is I don't know. That's what I preach. I preach the gospel of I don't know! I mean that's what I'm here promoting-- doubt. - That's my product. - Right. The other guys are selling certainty, not me. I'm on the corner with doubt.

...

I think being without faith is something that's a luxury for people who were fortunate enough to have a fortunate life. You know, you go to prison and you hear a guy say, ''You know what, buddy? I got nothing but Jesus in here.'' I completely understand that. I think not having faith is a luxury sometimes. If you're in a foxhole, you probably have a lot of faith, right? - Mm-hmm. - So I get that.

...

...behind me and above me is the original Twin Cities, Sodom and Gomorrah. Apparently, it was a pretty wicked place. How wicked? Well let's just say that what happened in Gomorrah, stayed in Gomorrah. That is until God got wind of it, so he sent two angels to investigate. Now the angels went to the house of the one godly man in town-- Lot. And the townspeople tried to rape them. Now Lot, not wanting his town to get the reputation as the kind of place that would rape angels, offered up to the mob his own daughters to rape. And he was the good guy in town. Which brings me to this question: If I ever had to swear an oath, why would I want to put my hand on the King James Bible? I think I could find more morality in the Rick James Bible.

...

It's a monotheistic religion, but there's three of them.
Christ at the theme park: Just like water can be ice, steam and water.
Maher: I see.
Christ: It's different forms, different shapes for the different purposes.
Maher: The analogy that Jesus at the amusement park said yesterday was brilliant, about the Trinity is like water. It can be steam. It can be ice. It can be liquid. Wow, that is-- boy, that stopped me in my tracks for a second, you know? That's just a brilliant analogy. When you think about it for two minutes, it's still complete bullshit. There this space God and he's himself and he sent himself on a suicide mission. He's a God, but he has a kid. He's a single parent. It's just silly, but when you put it in the water analogy, I can see that, you know, those ladies there, when they heard that the first time, they were like, done. Sold. Oh, you had me at ice cube.

...

Maher: [According to scientology] Xenu brought us here 75 million years ago, stacked us around volcanoes and blew them up with an H-bomb. We are older than the universe. You have to rid yourself of the implants from the extraterrestrial dictators! - Get an E-Meter. Yes, get an E-Meter! - An E-meter? Audit yourself. How do you people expect to get to the next level? I'm not making the rules.

Aw... You know, Scientologists... And right, you're like, ''Oh, yeah, that's some crazy shit. Okay. Jesus with the virgin birth and the dove and the snake who talked in the garden, that's cool. But the Scientologists, they're the crazy ones.'' That's not true. That-- that-- I don't have any idea of what you're talking about. But it has something to do with making sure that we're born with a defect, so that the souls of ours are infected with aliens... the cure? Scientology.

...


Maher [talking to 2 ex-Mormons]: To be a Mormon is to believe some really crazy stuff, crazy even by the standards of the big religions. When you're the new kid on the block--

--We'd like you to ''Meet the Mormons.'' In the founding scripture, you open up the Doctrine of Covenants, you read the autobiography of Joseph Smith. He quotes Jesus Christ as telling him that every other creed on earth is, quote, ''an abomination.'' An abomination. I mean, that's not a very ecumenical statement. You're talking about things that, I think, at some level you sense just do not make sense. I'm glad you said that because I read some of the tenets of Mormonism, like ''God lives on a planet near the star of Kalob.'' - Kolob. - Kolob. God the Father who's a physical man with a body of flesh and bone is probably about 6' tall, lives on a place called Kolob, had sexual relations with Mary-- remember he's a man. ''Jesus Christ was conceived by God the father having actual sex with Mary.'' Mary said, ''If this is what God wants, I'll be glad to do His will.'' ''Dark skin is a curse from God, but if you're sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person can become light-skinned.'' According to the Book of Mormon, after his resurrection, Jesus came to the Americas to preach to the Indians. ''That American Indians are actually a lost tribe of Israel.'' They're lost Jews. And also the idea that Christianity is American, I think, is an amazing entitlement to a people who are always trying to meld God and country. The Garden of Eden was in Missouri according to Mormonism. The new Jerusalem will be there.

I've also heard that the Mormon Church baptizes dead people. You can be baptized for about 50 people, 100 people that've died. And so you just get dunked about 50 to 100 times. That's baptism for the dead. Caffeine is evil. That magic underwear can protect you. And that you need a secret password to get into heaven. Everyone must stand at the final judgment before Joseph Smith, Jesus and Elohim. This isn't an easy religion.

...

It seems peaceful, but this is the very spot where a lot of Christians believe life on earth will end. The irony of religion is that because of its power to divert man to destructive courses, the world actually could come to an end. A lot of people in this country believe in end times. There will be this great reckoning, the Rapture....But if you believe that the world is gonna come to an end, and perhaps any day now, does it not drain one's motivation to improve life on earth while we're here? The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having key decisions made by religious people, by irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken. George Bush prayed a lot about Iraq, but he didn't learn a lot about it. I don't know that much about politics...Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith and enable and elevate it are our intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction. Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, ''I'm willing, Lord. I'll do whatever You want me to do.'' Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions, - limitations and agendas....The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting shit dead wrong...So you think Jesus will end this earth at some point, maybe in your lifetime? One always hopes. This is a sign, and that is a sign. If a nuclear bomb went off, and it seemed like that was exactly what it had said, balls of fire or something, you wouldn't look on that as necessarily a bad thing. I know I'll be with God. This is why rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves. And those who consider themselves only moderately religious really need to look in the mirror and realize that the solace and comfort that religion brings you actually comes at a terrible price. It says in the last days there'll be wars, rumors of wars. The Bible prophesies from the Book of Revelation-- they're going to be fulfilled! Can this be accomplished without violence? - No. - Islam ruling the world, global jihad. - Who will win out? - We'll win. That's for God to decide on Judgment Day. If you belonged to a political party or a social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a Mafia wife, with the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers. If the world does come to an end here or wherever, or if it limps into the future, decimated by the effects of a religion-inspired nuclear terrorism, let's remember what the real problem was: That we learned how to precipitate mass death before we got past the neurological disorder of wishing for it. That's it. Grow up or die. We are in a conflict between good and evil. See you in heaven. Who knows?


Well, that's certainly one way in which to look at it. Just not religiously.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:41 pm

Is this a profoundly meaningful or profoundly silly ritual:

VITAL
Directed by Shinya Tsukamoto

Our four-month dissection program is now over. Make sure you return the bodies to their original form. Check that bones and organs have been replaced and the kidneys are on the correct side.

Put the sash next to the hands. The tabi and sandals go by the feet. The triangular cloth and the headdress go by the head.

Drape the kimono over the body. Place the cane next to the right hand. Drape the shroud over the face. Lay the flowers inside.

Now place the lid on the coffin.

We will now close our eyes and pay our last respects.

The coffins will be taken now.


Later the coffins and all that is in them will be burned to ashes.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:35 pm

It's not for nothing that Woody Allen keeps going over and over the same connundrums that infuse folks "in love".
The more things change here the more they stay [more or less] the same.

VICKY CRISTINA BARCELONA
Written and directed by Woody Allen

Narrator: The two best friends had been close since college and shared the same tastes and opinions on most matters, yet when it came to the subject of love, it would be hard to find two more dissimilar viewpoints. Vicky had no tolerance for pain and no lust for combat. She was grounded and realistic. Her requirements in a man were seriousness and stability. She had become engaged to Doug because he was decent and successful and understood the beauty of commitment.

Cristina, on the other hand, expected something very different out of love. She had reluctantly accepted suffering as an inevitable component of deep passion, and was resigned to putting her feelings at risk. If you asked her what it was she was gambling her emotions on to win, she would not have been able to say. She knew what she didn't want, however, and that was exactly what Vicky valued above all else.

...

Cristina: I'll go to your room, but you'll have to seduce me

...

Cristina: [Looking at a sculpture of Jesus] Are you very religious?
Juan: No, no, no, no, I'm not. The trick is to enjoy life, accepting it has no meaning whatsoever.
Cristina: No meaning? You don't think that authentic love gives life meaning?
Juan: Yes, but love is so transient. Isn't it? I was in love with a most incredible woman... and then in the end...
Vicky: Yes?
Juan: She put a knife into me.
Cristina: My God, that's terrible!
Vicky: Well, maybe you did something to deserve it

...

Vicky: No. Look, I'm not free. I'm committed. You know what my theory is? And when I drink, I get brutally frank. I think that you're still hurting from the failure of your marriage to Maria Elena, and you're trying to lose yourself in empty sex.
Juan: Empty sex? Do you have such a low opinion of yourself?
Cristina: She's just saying that it has to have meaning for her, that's all.
Juan: I mean, the city is romantic, the night is warm and balmy, we are alive---isn't that meaning enough?

...

Juan: You are all set to enter a completely different life, a life you always wanted with a man you love.
Vicky: Yes, goddamn it, I know! And then I met you and we had this ridiculously irrational weekend together and now I... now I don't know where I am.

...

Narrator: Cristina began to sense the possibility of the kind of relationship she had always sought, but in the past had eluded her. She was the lover of an exciting man, an artist, whose work she believed in. She was already thinking of herself as a kind of expatriate, not smothered by what she believed to be America's puritanical and materialistic culture, which she had little patience for. She saw herself more a European soul, in tune with the thinkers and artists she felt expressed her tragic, romantic, freethinking view of life.

...

Juan: ...love requires such a perfect balance. It's like the human body. It may turn that you have all the vitamins and minerals, but if there is a minor, single, tiny ingredient missing, like... like... like... like... like salt, for example, one dies.
Cristina: Salt?

...

Cristina: At first it did bother me, but then I started to think about all these standard, accepted clichés of love... what's right, what's wrong, what's appropriate according to the "appropriate police," and you know, you see how screwed up most relationships...
Doug: So what you're saying is you're sharing a man. You're like a Mormon wife.
Cristina: I-I know it sounds strange, but actually, we all contribute to the relationship, and we're all really nourished by it.
Doug: If everyone did that, society couldn't function. -
Cristina: Come on!
Vicky: Come on, Doug. Let's not get into one of those turgid categorical imperative arguments. Whatever works.
Doug: Whatever works?!
Cristina: Maria Elena believes that there are many truths in life, not just one.

...

Juan: It's funny. Maria Elena and I... We are meant for each other and not meant for each other. It's... it's a contradiction. I mean, in order to understand it you need a poet like my father... because I don't.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:55 am

Horror films are often as much about the unknown as the supernatural

PULSE
Written and directed by Kiyoshi Kurosawa

Harue: I always wondered what it's like to die. From when I was really little I was always alone. [I thought] that after death you live happily with everyone over there...Then in high school it dawned on me you might be all alone after death, too.
Friend: There's no way to know. How could you?
Harue: The idea was so terrifying. I couldn't even bear it. That nothing changes with death, just right now...forever.

...

Ryosuke: Nobody knows what happens when you die...But I do know that I am definitely alive and so are you, Harue. That's for sure. right? So I don't want to think about the fact that we'll die someday. Just maybe in 10 years, or at least while we're still alive they'll invent a drug that prevents death. Then, we could live forever and ever. Of course you might think I am crazy to say that, but I'd rather bet on that.
Harue: You want to live forever?
Ryosuke: Yes.
Harue: That sounds like fun?
Ryosuke: Yes, that's what I think.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:22 pm

THE SON'S ROOM
Directed by Nanni Moretti

Giovanni: What if I'd stay that day?
Paola: Is that a question?
Giovanni: If I hadn't rushed over to that patient's place like an idiot...If I'd stayed...
Paola: He'd have gone anyway
Giovanni: If I'd taken him running. We'd have had an ice cream, we'd have seen a movie...
Paola: Giovanni, please! You can't turn back time.
Giovanni: That's exactly what I want to do: turn back time!


...

Patient: What the fuck is this?! First you lure me in, I tell you everything and then it's good-bye?! Fuck you! Fuck you! I feel like shit, goddamn it, and it gets worse and worse! Bastard, asshole! You've screwed me! You'll pay for this!....I'm not well, asshole! I'm not well!!
Giovanni: I'm sorry. I'm truly sorry.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:50 pm

The South Korean Seven

H
Directed by Jong-hyuk Lee

Detective Kim: Are there any files on Shin Hyun?
Doctor: A doctor doesn't reveal information on patients.
Detective Kim: Dr. Chu, information is needed to protect future victums. How about cooperating with us?
Doctor: No. My patient is more important to me than a victum I don't know.

...

Detective Kang: Why are stupid people so complicated?

....

Captain Lee: How about Shin Hyun's next murder?
Detective Kim: He wanted to show life's nobility so he murdered an abortion doctor and excavated her uterus.
Captain Lee: Cruelly killing for the sake of life's nobility.

...

Detective Kim: That expression of yours...that's the look of joy that children get when they thoughtlessly twist a chick's neck.
Shin Hyun: You should know that all looks hide hidden meanings. People who try hard to hide themselves, people who treat life as a possession and go about trying to hide their crime...
Detective Kim: Are you referring to yourself?
Shin Hyun: Obviously you are not understanding dimensions.
Detective Kim: Dimension?! You're nothing more than a murderer waiting for death. You see things superficially.
Shin Hyun: Listen to the cry of the abyss. If you fail to take heed, you won't be able to see beyond the six corpses...

...

Detective Park: I heard there's a way to break the hypnosis. Put down the gun. Look at my eyes. Hey, Kang! It's not your fault! You had no choice!


Kang puts down the gun. Then the final scene: detective Kim shoots him dead.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:10 pm

The battle of the exes: love and human remains.

CLOSER:

Directed by Mike Nichols

Dan: I fell in love with her, Alice.
Alice: Oh, as if you had no choice? There's a moment, there's always a moment, "I can do this, I can give into this, or I can resist it", and I don't know when your moment was, but I bet you there was one.

...

Larry: You forget you're dealing with a clinical observer of the human carnival.
Anna: Am I, now?
Larry: Oh, yes.
Anna: You seem more like the cat that got the cream, you can stop licking yourself

...

Alice: How can one man be so endlessly disappointing?
Dan: That's my charm.

...

Alice: What's your work?
Dan: I'm sort of a...journalist.
Alice: What sort?
Dan: I write obituaries

...

ALICE: I don't love you anymore.
DAN: Since when?
ALICE: Now. Just now. I don't want to lie. Can't tell the truth, so it's over.
DAN: It doesn't matter. I love you. None of it matters.
ALICE: Too late. I don't love you anymore. Goodbye.

...

Larry: [on a photography exhibit] What do you think?
Alice: It's a lie. It's a bunch of sad strangers photographed beautifully, and... all the glittering assholes who appreciate art say it's beautiful 'cause that's what they wanna see. But the people in the photos are sad, and alone... But the pictures make the world seem beautiful, so... the exhibition is reassuring which makes it a lie, and everyone loves a big fat lie.
Larry: I'm the big fat liar's boyfriend.
Alice: Bastard!

...

Larry: So Anna tells me your bloke wrote a book. Any good?
Alice: Of course.
Larry: It's about you isn't it?
Alice: Some of me.
Larry: Oh? What did he leave out?
Alice: The truth.

...

Larry: There's a girl out there who calls herself Venus, what's her real name?
Alice: Pluto

...

Larry: You don't know the first thing about love, because you don't understand compromise.

...

Dan: Deception is brutal, I'm not pretending otherwise.
Alice: How? How does it work? How do you do this to someone?
[Dan is silent]
Alice: Not good enough!

...

Dan: You've ruined my life.
Anna: You'll get over it.

...

Dan: What's so great about the truth? Try lying for a change, it's the currency of the world.

...

Anna: Love bores you.
Dan: No, it disappoints me
Anna: Why are you wasting her time?
Dan: You're judgmental
Anna: you're devious
Dan: I'm not wasting her time. She's completely lovable. And completely unleavable.
Anna: And you don't want someone else getting their dirty hands on her.
[Dan shrugs]
Anna: Men are crap.
Dan: But all the same...
Anna: Their still crap.

...

ALICE: I amuse you but I bore you.
DAN: No. No.
ALICE: You did love me?
DAN: I'll always love you. I hate hurting you.
ALICE: Why are you?
DAN: Because I'm selfish. And I think I'll be happier with her.
ALICE: You won't. You'll miss me. No one will ever love you as much as I do. Why isn't love enough?

...

Anna: I'm not a thief, Alice.

...

ANNA: Extraordinary thing, the internet. Possibility of genuine global communication, the first great democratic medium.
LARRY: Absolutely. It's the future.
ANNA: Two guys wanking in cyberspace.

...

ANNA: Why are you dressed?
LARRY: Because I think you might be about to leave me, and I didn't want to be wearing a dressing gown.

...

LARRY: Cupid? He's our joke!

...

LARRY: If I asked you to strip right now, would you?
ALICE: Of course. You want me to?
LARRY: No. Alice, tell me something true.
ALICE: Lying's the most fun a girl can have without taking her clothes off, but it's better if you do.
LARRY: You're cold. You're all cold at heart...
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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