philosophy in film

Share and discuss.

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:33 am

What could be simpler: Your wife is leaving you. It's the law of the land that you are not permitted to be single. You have 45 days to find a new "romantic partner". If you fail to do so, you will be turned into a lobster. And this is entirely possible because the plot unfolds in "the future". And in particular a future that is described as "dystopian".

"Absurdist" even.

In other worlds, even more dystopian [absurd] than it is now.

And we know it's dystopian because practically all of the characters have no names. Instead, they become The Hotel Manager or The Short Sighted Woman or The Limping Man or The Loner Leader

The good news though is this: You get to choose which animal you are turned into. David chooses to become a lobster. You know, if he fails. Why a lobster? Because, according to David, "lobsters live for over one hundred years, are blue-blooded like aristocrats, and stay fertile all their lives."

On the other hand, David's brother his now his pet dog.

Yes, all of this may seem to be entirely ludicrous. But it did manage to garner a 90% fresh rating on 188 reviews at RT. Just don't expect that your own reaction to it is going to be anywhere near the right one.

The plot? The plot is obviously a satiric metaphor to expose...something. About loners perhaps. Which means they would consider someone like me to be nothing less than a psychopath. Which means I would be hunted down and disposed of.

Or maybe it's poking around conformity again. The pressure to fit into any particular community. Where does "I" end and "we" begin? And the part about pondering where it might be best to draw that line. And [of course] the part about sex. And love.

The opening scene alone draws you into it immediately. As in "What the fuck?!!"

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lobster
trailer: https://youtu.be/TR_NcqD-Gfs


THE LOBSTER [2015]
Written in part and directed by Yorgos Lanthimos

Narrator [the Short Sighted Woman]: He decided his brown leather shoes were the best pair to wear. His back hurt a little, but not like some other time in the past when the pain was intolerable. He was thinking his wife doesn't love him at all anymore. He didn't burst into tear and he didn't think things most people do when they realise someone doesn't love them anymore.

...

Interviewer: Have you ever been on your own before?
David: No, never.
Interviewer: Are you allergic to any food?
David: No.
Interviewer: Your last relationship last how many years?
David: Eleven years and seven months.
Interviewer: Sexual preference?
David: Women. However I had one homosexual experience... in the past, in college. Is there bisexual option available?
Interviewer: No sir, this option is no longer available since about last summer due to several operational problems. I'm afraid you have to decide right now if you want to be registered as homosexual or heterosexual
David [after a pause]: I think I should be registered as heterosexual.

...

Hotel Manager [to David]: Now the fact that you will turn into an animal if you fail to fall in love with someone during your stay here is not something that should upset you or get you down. Just think, as an animal you'll have a second chance to find a companion. But, even then, you must be careful; you need to choose a companion that is a similar type of animal to you. A wolf and a penguin could never live together, nor could a camel and a hippopotamus. That would be absurd. Now have you thought of what animal you'd like to be if you end up alone?
David: Yes. A lobster.
Hotel Manager: Why a lobster?
David: Because lobsters live for over one hundred years, are blue-blooded like aristocrats, and stay fertile all their lives. I also like the sea very much.
Hotel Manager: I must congratulate you, the first thing most people think of is a dog which is why the world is full of dogs. Very few people choose unusual animal which is why they are in endangered.


So that's how it works!

Voice from a speaker: Good morning Room 101, 44 days left. Breakfast is served.

...

The Limping Man: Hello everyone. My mother was left on her own when my father fell in love with a woman who was better at math than she was. She had a post graduate degree I think, where as my mother was only a graduate. I was nineteen at the time. My mother entered the hotel, but didn't make it and was turned into a wolf. I really missed her. I found out she had been moved to a zoo. I often went there to see her. I'd give her raw meat. I knew that wolves liked raw meat, but I couldn't figure out which of the wolves was my mother so I used to give a little bit to each of them. One day I decided to enter the enclosure. I really missed her and I wanted a hug. I climbed the fence and jumped in. All the wolves charged at once and attacked me; all but two who stood motionless. My guess is that one of those two must have been my mother. The zoo guards got to me quite quickly and took me to the hospital. Thankfully I didn't lose my leg. I just have this limp, which is also my defining characteristic. My wife died six days ago. She was very beautiful and I loved her very much. She had a limp too.

...

David's dancing partner [in a complete monotone]: I'm sorry I got the blood on your shirt. But don't worry, there are many ways to remove blood stain from clothing. One way is to wring the clothes to cold water, then rub in sea salt. Another way is to srape the stain with cotton ball dip in ammonia. The third way is to make flour mold into a paste like toothpaste. Especially it the clothes are delicate or bright color. But just never use warm water on blood, ever.
David: Ok.

...

Hotel Manager: ls your room number 186?
Robert: Yes it is.
Hotel Manager: I imagine you know masturbation is not permitted in the room or any other area of the hotel. And yet, it is been brought to my attention you continue to do it. Are you looking at a photograph while you masturbating?
Robert: Yes.
Hotel Manager: What does the photograph show?
Robert: A naked woman on a horse in the country.
Hotel Manager: If I were in your shoes I would not be ogling the naked woman but the horse.


Cue the toaster.

Biscuit Woman [to David]: Can I come to your room sometime for a chat? I could give you a blowjob. Or you could just fuck me. I always swallow after fellatio and I've got absolutely no problem with anal sex if that's your thing. My ex-husband always used to say I had the most beautiful thighs he'd ever seen, but let's not talk about him.

...

Robert: You thought about what animal you wanna be if you don't make it?
David: A lobster.
Robert: I'm gonna be a parrot if I don't make it. Hey, why don't you become parrots too, then can all be together?
The Limping Man: You're a complete idiot. Picking one of few animals that can talk when you have a speech impediment. You'll lisp even as an animal. As for you, David, they will catch you and put you in a pot of boiling water until you die. And then crack open you claws with a tool by prying it, then suck up what little flesh you have with their mouth. You're pathetic, both of you.

...

Voice from speaker: Good morning Room 101, you have 7 days left. Breakfast is served.

...

Hotel Manager: Morning ladies. So, today is your last day. And as is customary, you can choose how you like to spend your last night. What I always said in this situation is it would be wise to do something you can't do as animal. For example read a work of classic literature or sing a song you really like. It would be silly to choose, for example, a walking the ground or have sexual intercourse with another person. Those are things you can do as animal.
Girl: I'd like watch Stand By Me with River Phoenix, Kiefer Sutherland and Richard Dreyfuss...alone.
Hotel Manager: Excellent choice. Lovely film.

...

Narrator: One day, as he was playing golf he thought that it is more difficult to pretend you do have feelings when you don't than to pretend you don't have feelings when you do. He also thought that he liked her accent and he always prefered woman with short hair. So he decided she was the one. During the hunt, he would follow her. And as soon as she shot a loner, he would say to her: "I wish we had a real gun instead of this silly tranquilizer one. Why don't you kill him with your bare hands?" And the moment she put her hand around loner's throat he would said: "I hope he dies right away.

...

Heartless Woman [after she fakes choking to death while David sits there and does nothing to help her]: I think that we are a match.
David: Yes, I think so too.


Off to the Double Room.

Heartless Woman [to David]: Do you mind if we fuck in a position where I can see your face?

...

Heartless Woman: Good morning. I killed your bother. I left him to die very slowly. He may not be dead yet as now we speak. I was kicking him for ages.
David: It doesn't matter.


She means the dog. And it does matter.

Narrator: He couldn't understand why she did it. So he decided to turn her into an animal. He dragged her to the room where transformation took place. I asked him many times what sort of animal he turned her into. But he always give me the same answer: "That's none of your concern."

...

Loner Leader: You can stay with us for as long as you like. You can be a loner until the day you die, there is no time limit.
David: Thank you very much.
Loner Leader: Anyway, any romantic or sexual relations between loners are not permitted. And any such acts are punished, is that clear?
David: Can I have a converstation with someone?
Loner Leader: Of course you can, so long as there is no flirting or anything like that. That applies to dance nights as well. We all dance by ourselves. That's why we only play electronic music.

...

Short Sighted Woman [of David]: That night, in my sleep, I dreamt that we lived in a big house together in the city with a large, well-lit kitchen, and I was wearing dark blue trousers and a tight cream blouse and he took my clothes off and fucked me up the ass.

...

Robert: You're not thinking of coming back? You know if you told the hotel manager about your brother, she'd probably forgive you.
David: No, it's really nice to be on your own. There is no one tying you down. You listen to music whenever you like, you masturbate whenever you want, go for a walk whenever you like, have a chat whenever you like. I don't miss companionship at all

...

Loner Leader: Where were you? I was looking for you.
David: I was masturbating behind those trees over there.

...

Short Sighted Woman [of her relationship with David]: We developed a code so that we can communicate with each other even in front of the others without them knowing what we are saying. When we turn our heads to the left it means "I love you more than anything in the world" and when we turn our heads to the right it means "watch out, we're in danger". We had to be very careful in the beginning not to mix up "I love you more than anything in the world" with "watch out, we're in danger". When we raise our left arm it means "I want to dance in your arms", when we make a fist and put it behind our backs it means "let's fuck". The code grew and grew as time went by and within a few weeks we could talk about almost anything without even opening our mouths.

...

Loner Leader: Can you imagine why I brought you to this quiet place today?
David: No.
Loner Leader: Because I think it's the perfect spot for your grave.

...

Doctor [of the Short Sighted Woman]: She's blind.
Loner Leader: Thank you.

...

Short Sighted Woman: There is no point to lying to you. You'll find out sooner or later. Our leader blinded me in the city. She must've realised I love you, you love me and we're going to run away to the city together. I'm sorry.
David: You can't see at all?
Short Sighted Woman: No, not at all.

...

David [to waiter]: Can I have a knife and fork please? Not a butter knife, steak knife.

...

David: I'm going to do it with the knife.
Short Sighted Woman: Do you want me to come with you?
David: I rather you didn't.
Short Sighted Woman: Don't worry. It's strange at first, but you get used to it. And your other senses are heightened. Touch, for example, and hearing.
David: I know. I won't be long.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:34 am

Krigen.

One in particular: Afghanistan. Only this time from the perspective of another country. The soldiers here are from Denmark. And since my own reaction to the "war on terror" has always revolved by and large around the political narrative I embrace regarding "the military industrial complex", I'm not at all certain the extent to which that is applicable to a nation like Denmark.

After all, profit is certainly not the only motivation for taking a nation to war. And I am always generally enthusiastic about ousting any and all religious fanatics from power.

Besides, soldiers, much like the rest of us, can be more or less idealistic, more or less cynical.

Still, in other respects a war is a war is a war. And in today's world that often involves questions of "collateral damage". The killing of non-combatants. And then in deciding whether or not in any particular context this constitutes a war crime. Or, as one reviewer at IMDb noted:

Why decide so-and-so? Why did such-and-such happen in this or that way? Could it have been altered? Could lives have been saved? Did I do the job I signed up for, or more, or less? The ways in which such issues haunt soldiers, their commanders, their families and even the Afghan locals, form the basis of this important film.

In other words, how can "the fog of war" not be but exacerbated when two entirely different cultures with two entirely different languages collide?

Here is one take on Denmark's involvement in the war: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2010/j ... fghanistan

In war, there is always going to be the part about doing the right thing versus suffering the consequences of doing the right thing. And it's not like the commander here intended to kill those 8 children.

As for the ending, well, what's one more lie in one more war?

IMDb

Four of the cast members are real Danish soldiers who have been stationed in Afghanistan.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_War
trailer: https://youtu.be/qil14JEoPzU


A War [Krigen] 2015
Written and directed by Tobias Lindholm

Pederson [commander]: How are the guys feeling?
Soldier: They're awful. Especially my second rifleman, Lasse.
Pederson: What about you?
Soldier: None of the guys feel good. We feel like walking targets. The guys are powerless. They can't do anything. The guys don't see the purpose of patrolling ...
Soldier: Hold on a sec. Let's see this from their perspective. The guys just lost a friend. They're frustrated. I'm just saying the assignments make no sense.
Soldier: I've just lost one of my 21-year-olds, who bled out right in front of me. THAT makes no sense!

...

Pederson [to his men]: Do any of you have any doubts about why you are here? It's to secure and help the civil population, so they can have a decent life and rebuild their land. I know you walk on patrol a lot, and that you use a lot of energy. But that's because we have momentum. We're getting the civilians on our side. That's why it's so important that we show our presence in the area.

...

Perderson: Lasse? What's going on?
Lasse: I want to go home. Since that morning with Anders ...He wasn't even supposed to be there. He took my spot. And he was blown to pieces. I can't leave through these gates again. I'm not worth two shits.
Perderson: I can't send you home. What I can do is give you assignments inside the camp for the next two weeks. That way you won't have to leave these gates for a while. And you can calm down. If you still feel down after a couple of weeks, we'll talk again.

...

Villager: There aren't any Taliban here. They're regular civilians. The Taliban comes sometimes. When we leave, they'll be here right away.
Pederson: When were they here last?
Villager: As soon as you get here, they run away.
Pederson: If we help you with the well and the water, could you help us with the mines?

...

Pederson [after his sniper killed a Taliban soldier]: Marius, how will you explain to your son that you have shot a bad Guy?
Marius: I don't know. B for Bang?
Soldier: D for Dead?

...

Interpreter: Although you patrol at day, the Taliban comes at night. He says that the Taliban know we helped his daughter. Now they want him to be a warrior for them, otherwise they'll kill his family.
Perderson: Tell him that we'll come tomorrow and force the Taliban away from the area.
Villager: I can't go home. We have to stay here tonight.
Pederson: I'm sorry, but I have to ...I'm sorry. You have to go home now. I myself have three children. I understand your situation. But in order for us to help you, you will have to go home.
Villager: Your children live in safety though.
Interpreter: He says that if they go back, they will be killed.
Villager: Take care of the children, and I'll leave.
Interpreter: His children will be killed. We have to go to the village in the morning anyway...
Pederson: Stop that right now.
Villager: What should I do?
Perderson: We will be there tomorrow. We'll secure the area, and force the Taliban out. We'll protect you and your family. You have my word.


Next day...

Soldier [on the radio]: We're here. The family we helped, we located them. They've all been killed. The boy was shot in the head. The girl was shot two three times in the chest and neck. The mother was hit in the face.

...

Soldier: We're not getting air support, unless we have PID.
Pederson: We need to get Lasse out of here!
Soldier: 7-5 wants to know who's in there.
Pederson: I don't give a shit who's in there!
Soldier: I know, but it's 7-5 asking!
Pederson: Then tell them, I know who's in there! We have to get out of here!
Soldier: We have PID on Compound 6. Repeat: PID on Compound 6.

...

Pederson: What's going on?
Soldier: The commander is in your office. Got two guys from the Judge Advocate Corps with him.
Pederson: What's it about?
Soldier: I don't know.

...

JAG officer: Can you confirm that you and your men were present in Adam Khan Kalay on September 21 at 9:30?
Pederson: I can confirm that.
JAG officer: We have been told that you gave orders to attack Compound 6. Is that correct?
Pederson: Yes. We were in close contact with the enemy.
JAG officer: And the enemy, that you refer to, was located in Compound 6?
Pederson: Yes. That's why, we called for air support on it.
JAG officer: You are charged with bombing a civilian target and thus caused the deaths of 11 civilians.
Pederson: What does that mean?
JAG officer: It means you are going home, Claus.

...

Maria: Tell me why you've come home.

...

Maria: What is PID?
Pederson: It means I saw the enemy there.

...

Lawyer: You are accused of violating the Military Criminal Code, 36.2.
Pederson: And what does that mean exactly?
Lawyer: It means that you have been accused of killing civilians.
Maria: What is the penalty for that?
Lawyer: It probably won't be a jury trial, in which the maximum penalty is four years.

...

Pederson: What do we do now?
Lawyer: The most important question is, if Compound 6 was a military or a civilian target. That's the whole case. Did you have PID, Claus?
Pederson: I had a strong assumption that the Taliban were...
Lawyer: I'll have to stop you right there. Did you have PID?
Pederson: I had a strong ...
Lawyer: I gotta stop you again.

...

Maria: Does that matter? He says, his men are wounded and bleeding. It's his duty to save them.
Lawyer: I understand that very well. But you have to understand, that to everyone else, Claus is a soldier who killed 11 civilians. Alright. Let me be completely honest with you. In this store I sell acquittals. Morality and ethics is not my department.


Or 15 if you count the family he sent home?

Pederson: I can't just lie. I didn't know who was in that house, Maria. It was my responsibility, and I have to suffer the consequences.
Maria: You must suffer the consequences? What about the children? What about me? We need you at home....It's not about what you were supposed to do then, but what you do right now. Would it help you to go to prison for four years? Would you get better? Would the children get better? We need you at home! The children need you!
Pederson: I dropped that bomb. It was my decision. I can't just blame my men.
Maria: Alright, but then do what he says. Say you had the fucking PID. Say, you can't remember who confirmed it. Maybe you did kill eight children, but you have three living ones at home!

...

JAG prosecutor: Alright. I would like to quote from exhibit 27a: "I don't care who's in there. We need to get Lasse out. " And shortly thereafter: "Tell them I know who's in there. We have to get out of here." This is contrary to what you said.
Pederson: No, it's not.
JAG prosecutor: Would you elaborate on that?
Pederson: You need to understand something. When I get a report that they won't grant air support, but it's the only thing that can save me and my men, I see it as my duty to get it granted.
JAG prosecutor: Who told you, where the enemy was located?
Pederson: I don't remember. Because we were under heavy fire!

...

Daughter: Daddy, is it true that you killed children?

...

JAG prosecutor: Did you consider, as next-in-command, that something went terriblywrong out there?
Najib: That is a difficult question because you can't imagine what it means to be out there. Claus is the most capable soldier I know. And ultimately it is our responsibility to get our men back home in one piece. That is what we are there for. But he shouldn't have been out there with them. He should have been in the camp overseeing the operation.

...

JAG prosecutor: Your company commander is in difficulties and has been indicted for half a year. The information you're bringing forward now, would have been of significant importance to both the man and his case. Do you want me to believe, that at no point did it occur to you to share any of this information? It's been six months.
Najib: Yes, it has. Sorry.


The proscecutor sums up the case:

JAG prosecutor: The law is clear: The prohibition against arbitrary attacks is of central importance in the protection of the civilian population. At no point has the defendant been able to justify why he decided to attack. He says someone in the unit identified Compound 6 as a hostile target, but he hasn't indicated who or specified further circumstances. The court has heard me question every single soldier in the vicinity of the defendant, who would have been able to identify Compound 6. And one soldier, Kenneth 'Butcher' Jensen, waited until court to inform us that he observed the muzzle flashes and conveyed it to the defendant. I have no trust in the witness, because in the sound recording we can clearly hear the exchange of words between the defendant and Butcher up until the order: "I don't give a shit who's in there." And when next-in-command in TOC insists on PID: "Tell them, I know who's in there." I see a man who disregards the need of a civilian population to save his own guy, Lasse. Is that understandable from a human perspective? Yes. We can probably all understand the difficult dilemma. But although we have sympathy for the defendant, who appears to be a competent soldier and leader and although we must provide Danish soldiers room for manoeuvreability in extreme circumstances, no one is above the law. Otherwise, a judicial system is rendered superfluous. If we in a case like this let such a serious violation of humanitarian rights slide, we will end somewhere, where we do not want to be. Claus Michael Pedersen must be sentenced because there is no doubt that he intentionally disregarded the elementary rules of engagement. Basically, the penalty in section 36.2 is prison for life. Now, however, this is not a jury trial, because the defendant did not have the intention to kill civilians. But their deaths are a direct consequence of his decision. The maximum penalty is four years. It is my contention, that we should be close to that maximum. With these remarks, I rest my case.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:37 pm

Yes, one more cinematic reflection on why music is more or less the center of the universe for any number of us. Me, for example.

The 1980s. The advent of New Wave. Of Hardcore. The two greatest music genres in the world.

My world, for instance. And still in fact. Though, admittedly, it was considerably more exhilarating back in the day when I was able to actually dive deep down into it. Now all that's left is the music.

But: this is basically a film about how much more intense your love for music is always going to be when you are sharing it with someone that you are falling in love with. Especially for the first time. And it is all the more fulfilling when what you are sharing is not just music that you listen to but music that you are creating yourself.

Now, I'm not one who makes much of a distinction between "our music" and "their music". Between "pop music" and "art". They seem to be. Fine. Different folks, different strokes.

And then there's the part that is bursting at the seams with...class. It can all be an entirely different experience on that side of the tracks. Lots of folks there more or less willing to shit on you. Also, in some respects, Conor's sojourn in a Catholic High School takes the film back to the 1950s.

Finally [maybe] it's a film about how far beauty will take you when that is really all you've got going for you.

The ending is straight out of la la land. But not entirely out of the question.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sing_Street
trailer: https://youtu.be/C_YqJ_aimkM


SING STREET [2016]
Written and directed by John Carney

Reporter [on television]: There are still no accurate figures for the number of young lrish people coming to London in search of work, the crude indications that do exist show an enormous increase. Many take the boat with barely enough money to survive a few days in London, but still they emigrate because they see hope across the sea, hope they cannot see in lreland.

This was back in the 1980s. So, sure, if you can make a living as a musician...

Conor [son]: Who are the Christian Brothers?
Robert [father]: The Christian Brothers are an educational institution formed by...
Brendan [son]: The Christian Brothers, Conor, are an order of the Catholic Church self-appointed in their education formation and systematic beating of their young charges.
Robert: Oh, shut up, Brendan. Six years in the hands of the Jesuits, and look what they did for you.

...

Brother Baxter: We have a strict black-shoe policy here, Mr. Lawlor. Your parents should have read it in the introductory rule book, page 142.
Conor: I don't have black shoes, sir.
Brother Baxter: Well, you're just going to have to get a pair then, aren't you?


The next day...

Brother Baxter [looking down at his brown shoes]: Good morning, Mr. Lawlor.
Conor: Well, I brought it up with my mum, but she said we can't afford another pair at the moment. I bought these before I knew about the shoe color policy here at Synge Street. But it's not as if they're runners or something. They're... they're brown. They're-they're quite sensible.
Brother Baxter: They're not black.
Conor: I'm-I'm not sure what you want me to do.
Brother Baxter: Take them off. You can leave them at the door there. Seeing as you're so fond of them, you can pick them up here at 4:00 every day until you comply with the rules of the school.

...

Conor: We need to form a band.
Darren: What?

...

Eamon: What are you into?
Conor: I'm a futurist.
Eamon: What does that mean?
Conor: Like, uh, no nostalgia. Not like your da's band. Not looking backwards, just forwards.
Eamon: Oh, cool. Like Depeche Mode?
Conor: Okay.
Eamon: Or Joy Division?
Conor: Right
Eamon: Or Duran Duran. What do you think of them?
Conor [mimicing Brendan]: Jury's still out on which way those guys will go. They're a lot of fun and James Taylor is one of the most proficient bass players in the UK at the moment, giving them a funky edge.
Eamon: John Taylor.
Conor: Yeah, John! Of course!

...

Darren: There's a black guy in 3B.
Conor: So?
Darren: Be cool if he was in the band.
Conor: Why?
Darren: He's probably the one black guy in the whole school. Probably in Dublin. Having a golliwog in the band give us a real edge.
Conor: You can't say "golliwog."
Darren: Why not?
Conor: Trust me, you just can't.

...

Conor: [about a name for the band]: What about "La Vie"?
Darren: What's that mean?
Conor: It's French for "The Life."
Garry: What's French for, uh, "That's not gonna be the name of the band"?
Conor: "Ce n'est pas le nom du groupe."
Garry: There you go.

...

Conor [after Brendan stomps on his demo cassette]: We're just starting. We need to learn how to play.
Brendan: Did the Sex Pistols know how to play? You don't need to know how to play. Who are you, Steely Dan? You need to learn how not to play, Conor. That's the trick. That's rock and roll. And that takes practice.

...

Conor [to Eamon]: When you don't know someone, they're more interesting. They can be anything you want them to be. But when you know them, that limits them.

...

Brendan: You're good. Get better. How d'you know he's her boyfriend anyway?
Conor: It seemed like it. Pulled off in his car, music blaring. He's pretty cool.
Brendan: What was he listening to?
Conor: Genesis.
Brendan: No woman can truly love a man who listens to Phil Collins.

...

Brother Baxter: What's going on?
Conor: With what?
Brother Baxter [gesturing towards his hair]: This.
Conor: Oh, well. I checked the rule book...the-the one you mentioned about brown shoes and I couldn't find anything about makeup or altering hair color. Oh, and look. I painted these with paint from the art room.
Brother Baxter: Head down to the toilet and remove the makeup right now.
Conor: Why?
Brother Baxter: Because I told you to.
Conor: But I'm in a band. It's a school band, and I think it's important that we have a look.
Brother Baxter: You're a man. Men don't wear makeup.
Conor: But why not? Men in the 18th century wore makeup. That means people like Mozart wore makeup, and he was a man.
Brother Baxter: So you're Mozart now, are you? That makes me Salieri, is it?
Conor: Who's Salieri?

...

Raphina: Will you write me a happy song sometime? I need a laugh.
Conor: But what if I don't feel happy?
Raphina: Your problem is that you're not happy being sad. But that's what love is, Cosmo. Happy sad.

...

Conor: What did she mean by that?
Brendan: Well, I think what she means is that you need to reach a place in your life where you're okay with your sadness. It's pretty high concept stuff. How old d'you say she was again?
Conor: Sixteen.
Brendan: It's monastic. She's like a monk.
Ann [sister]: She sounds really pretentious.
Brendan: Why, 'cause she wants to leave school and follow her vocation?
Ann: You call wanting to be a model a vocation?
Brendan: Anything can be a vocation, Ann. Being a taxi driver, being a bin man, being a poet, being a singer, being an artist.
Ann: Brendan, I never wanted to be an artist.
Brendan: We couldn't get the brush out of your hand when you were a kid.
Ann: What is wrong with being an architect?
Brendan: It's not a vocation.
Ann: I thought everything was a vocation.
Brendan: Don't be playing word games with me, Ann. I don't do "words," all right?

...

Conor [to Brendan]: I think she's an amazing human being, never seen anyone like her. The way she talks and looks. She wears this sunglasses, and when she takes'em off, her eyes... are like the clouds clearing to let pass the moon
[Brendan scoffs]
Conor: Sometimes I just wanna cry looking at her.

...

Darren: What does happy sad even mean? How can we be both things? It makes no sense.
Conor: It means that I'm stuck in this shithole full of morons and rapists and bullies, and I'm gonna deal with it, okay? It's just how life is. I'm gonna try and accept this and get on with it, and make some art.
Eamon: So how does that affect our music?
Conor: Positively.

...

Conor [to Barry, the school bully]: Maybe you're living in my world. I'm not living in yours. You're just material for my songs.

...

Conor [to Barry]: You only have the power to stop things, but not to create.

...

Conor [to Raphina]: Look, there's the ferry heading to England. Full of lrish people.

...

Conor: What's wrong with you?
Brendan: I don't know. I'm in withdrawal!
Conor: From what?
Brendan: I haven't smoked hash in two days, Conor.
Conor: Why?
Brendan: So I can do somethingwith my life.
Conor: Like what?
Brendan: Do you see that guitar? I used to be able to play that guitar...well. I used to ride hot girls. I could run 200 meters faster than anybody in my school. You're the youngest. You get to follow the path that I macheted through the jungle that is our mad family. I was alone with them for six years. You think they're crazy now? Think about what they were like when they were in their late 20's. Two Catholics in a rented flat with a screaming baby who just got married because they wanted to have sex. They didn't even love each other. I was in the middle of that, alone! And then you came along, thank God! And you followed the path that I cut for us. Untouched. You just moved in my jet stream. And people laugh at me, Conor. The stoner, the college dropout. And they praise you, which is fine! But once, I was a fucking jet engine!!!

...

Conor: Hi. Is Raphina there?
Girl [at the door]: No. She doesn't live here anymore.
Conor: Wh-Where is she?
Girl: I don't know. Are you the bloke in the band?
Conor: Yeah.
Girl: I lost money on you.
Conor: What?
Girl: Yeah, we all had bets going. Thought you were gonna win. Look, she was always gonna do her own thing, wasn't she? She's mad like that, determined.

...

Conor: Raphina?
Raphina: No, sorry.
Conor: Hey, wait.
Raphina: What?
Conor: Raphina.
Raphina: Who?
Conor: Raphina.
Raphina: Oh, no, I'm Raphina's younger sister. Sorry.
Conor: No, you're not. What are you doing? I thought you were in London.

...

Conor: So what are you gonna do now?
Raphina: I don't know. I was gonna print some CVs, but I haven't really done anything, except your videos. McDonald's have an ad in their window. Would you still fancy me if I did that? "D'you want chips with that?"
Conor: As long as you're happy.
Raphina: So that's my life now. Working at McDonald's, hanging out with a 15-year-old schoolboy. I'm exactly like my ma. I'm mad.
Conor [finally realizing the score]: I have to go now. I have a gig to rehearse for.
Raphina: Oh, tell me about that.
Conor: No.

...

Connor: Will you help me write a song?
Eamon: Always.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:48 am

Imagine what it must be like to be a young boy raised in a "traditional Bedouin community". A community that is more or less completely isolated from the rest of the world. And then one day out of the blue the rest of the world finds you.

Sort of.

It is 1916. The world is at war. Into a Bedouin camp comes a British officer, part of "Middle Eastern theater" of this global conflict. He needs someone to guide him across the desert. A perilous trek. In part because the desert is said to be "riddled with mercenaries, revolutionaries and outcast raiders".

To Theeb, he is like a creature from another planet. All those gadgets. And what is in that mysterious box? He simply cannot resist going long.

This is a film in which the extent that you are familiar with the historical context, it all becomes more or less perspicuous. The tale unfolds "in the wake of the Great Arab Revolt against the ruling Ottoman Empire". You either grasp the significance of that here or you don't.

In part this is also another exploration into the age old conundrum: the forest or the trees? One man is ever looking at the "big picture". At the forest. From his perspective, what possible difference can the fate of one or two saplings make?

Still, the "big picture" here is actually far, far in the background. It never really makes an appearance. But the fate of the characters are still caught up in it.

And yet what can all of that possibly mean to a boy who was born and raised in this tiny self-contained community where everyone has his part to play from the cradle to the grave; and where "reality" is entirely scripted within the community itself.

Or perhaps the aim is suggest that such an isolation is increasingly less likely to be sustained in a world that is now well into "the modern industrial age".

IMDb

Jacer Eid (Theeb) and his brother in the film Hussein Salameh are not professional actors. They live in Al Shakriyeh village in Wadi Rum where the film (and The Martian) were shot. They were picked and trained by the director Naji Abu Nowar after spending months in the tribe.

"Theeb" which means "wolf" is a word which represents manhood in the bedouin culture.

Jordan's first nominated film at the Academy Awards.

The original plan was to feature some female characters but no women among the Bedouin communities were prepared to appear in the film.

Filming was delayed as most of Jordan's film-making units were involved in Kathryn Bigelow's Zero Dark Thirty (2012) at the time.


at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theeb
Trailer: https://youtu.be/jif5Tk2-d1M


THEEB [2014]
Written in part and directed by Naji Abu Nowar

Father: He who swims in the Red Sea cannot know its true deep, and not just any man, Theeb, can reach the seabed, my son. In questions of brotherhood, never refuse a guest. Be the right hand of the right when men make their stand. And if the wolves offer friendship, do not count on success; they will not stand beside you when you are facing death.

...

Theeb: Who's the foreigner?
Hussein [older brother]: I don't know.
Theeb: What's he want?
Hussein: Quiet, child.

...

Theeb [holding up a mirror while Edward, the British officer shaves]: How many men have you killed?

...

Marji: The sharif said you could guide us to the Roman Well. On the Pilgrim's Trail?
Tribal chief: That trail's been abandoned since the railroad came.
Edward: I have people there.
Tribal chief: With all respect, there are more raiders than pilgrims on that trail.

...

Theeb: What do they want with the well?
Hussein: I don't know. We take them and go home.
Theeb: What's in the box?
Hussein: The box?
Theeb: He goes crazy if I touch it.

...

Edward: We can't sacrifice the mission for two boys, I don't care who their father is. Please tell me you understand.
Marji: I will not leave them.
Edward: Do you not understand how important it is...
Marji: We brought them here.
Edward: ...that we get to that railway.
Marji: We cannot leave them.
Edward: If we do not get there they will massacre your brothers.
Marji: I'll die before I abandon them!
Theeb: What are they fighting about?
Hussein: It's none of our business.
Edward: Do you even know what a country is?
Marji: Brothers are more important than your railway.
Edward: Something to fight for! A boy and his brother...who cares?!!

...

Hussein: Let's follow them.
Theeb: Why?
Hussein: You want them to die of thirst?

...

Hussein [to Theeb]: Remember our father. The strong eat the weak. We are stronger.

....

Hussein: Listen. If anything happens, climb up the mountain. When it's safe, wait by the well. Someone will come. You hear? You hear?
Theeb: I hear.


Instead, he falls into the well.

Hassan [watching Theeb with the wooden box]: That's dangerous!...Don't be scared. Don't be scared Don't be scared. Why were you with the Englishman?
Theeb: Shut up.
Hassan: Did I bring you here? Your people put you in this mess.
Theeb: You killed them.
Hassan: Didn't I say, "Surrender and you'll have peace"? And what did you do? You shot me!

...

Hassan: [to Theeb]: Come here. Take the dagger and dig the bullet out. Dig it out with the tip. Use the dagger's tip.

...

Hassan: Is that your tribe's mark on the box?
[Theeb nods his head]
Hassan: Who's Sheikh Abu Hmoud to you?
Theeb: He's my father.
Hassan: The Wolf begets a Wolf.

...

Theeb [looking down at the railroad track]: What's that?
Hassa: The iron donkey. This is what destroyed us.
Theeb: What is it?
Hassan: The iron donkey trail.
Theeb: What's it for?
Hassan: Pilgrims and Ottoman soldiers ride it. A month by camel now takes a week by train.

...

Hassan: I've traveled all over. I've seen Jerusalem and al-Sham. Everywhere from Baghdad to Al-Madinah al-Munawwarah.
Theeb: Why did you stop?
Hassan: They stopped me. The train came and ruined everything. All my forefathers were pilgrim guides. They left us in dark times, without means or opportunity. And so brother killed brother.
Theeb [after a long pause]: The strong eat the weak.

...

Hassan [as he and Theeb pass a field strewn with dead bodies]: Those are your Englishman's friends.
Theeb: What happened?
Hassan: The train. Madmen. You can't stop a spear with your hand.

...

British soldier [after Theeb shoots Hassan]: Drop the gun! Drop it, boy!
Theeb [to the British post commander]: He killed my brother.
Commander [after a pause]: Go home.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:35 am

Being blind.

You either are or you are not. And you were either blind from birth or you lost your sight having once been able to see.

Every situation is going to be different. Every individual reaction will be different. There is not a "right" or a "wrong" way to be blind. And if you have never been blind what can you really know about it? Sure, you can put something over your eyes and go X number of days without sight. In order to try to imagine what it might be like to not see. But that's hardly the same.

And then there is this:

Ingrid [voiceover]: They say that my ability to visualize will fade away. That the optic nerves wither without new impressions.

I hadn't thought of that. Of course if you were born blind there has never been anything to visualize.

As for me, I always come back to this: to never have seen at all or to have once seen and then lost your vision. Which would be the more devastating?

And when you are involved with other people there is how you now think and feel about being blind when you are around them. But there is also the part "inside your head" that you may or may not be able to communicate to others. If you are even able to come to grips with it yourself. And always that gap between being dependent on others and being able to live your life as an independent human being. All that has to be reconfigured.

Or maybe being blind here is more a metaphor for what we either see or do not see in human relationships that have run amok in our sex-drenched postmodern world.

This film earned a 97% fresh rating at RT. On 34 reviews. It is described there as an "experimental film". In other words, clearly not for everyone. One of those films in which if someone asks "what's it about?", you will get many very different answers. And at times you're not sure if what you are watching is real or just something that is coming out of Ingrid's head. Are Elin and Einar just figments of her imagination...characters in a story? And what is the point of their story as we struggle to come to grips with her own.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_(2014_film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/26D4LYQOAhk


BLIND [2014]
Written and directed by Eskil Vogt

Ingrid [voiceover]: I start with something fairly simple, something you've seen countless times. A tree, for instance. An oak. The bark. The cracks in the bark, the knots or whatever you call them. Smaller things are easier to visualize. A dog, a German Sherpard. Places are harder. It helps if I knew them well before it happened. The apartment we used to live in, our favorite restaurant, my husband's office or the shopping center downtown. You have to use your memories. Take care not to be derailed. And start to associate. There not really memories. Nobody can remember a whole building. Not every single detail.

...

Ingrid [voiceover]: They say that my ability to visualize will fade away. That the optic nerves wither without new impressions. But I can slow it down, If I work on it every day. I can maintain it.

...

Ingrid [voiceover]: It came and went. He streamed and downloaded vast amounts. Watched it, masturbated, saw more, did it again. Maybe as often as four or five times a day. Then, loathing himself, he erased it all. Only to start downloading again, masturbating, deleting everything etc....The artificial dialogue bothered him. The awkward attempts at being sexy. But the sex was real enough...

...

Ingrid [voiceover]: Einar didn't know why, but he got kicks from specific things. He had actual fetishes. He found uncharted waters within himself. Weird perversions he thought were unique. But even they had been categorized long ago -- made searchable by anyone.

...

Ingrid [voiceover]: He envied girls. No matter how they looked, what they lacked in terms of the ideal, there were men who wanted them, who celebrated them on websites and file sharing networks. Not everything appealed that much to him. But who was he to judge? Some things he never grew tired of. High heels. The urge to watch naked men surrounded by clothed women. And long hair in every variety. But eventually the most hard-core porn lost its attraction. He needed something mundane in the girls he masturbated to.


This is all interspersed with clips of hardcore pornography. You begin to wonder: what does all of this have to do with being blind?

Man on television: Let's discuss the eternal question: What's worse, being blind or deaf?
Man: As a musician of sorts, I'd really hate being deaf. But at the same time I love porn, so..
[the television audience laughs]

...

Ingrid [voiceover]: I can still see in my dreams. I wake up. After a few seconds I remember I can't see...


Then she relates the experience she had of going blind.

Morten [describing a building he has designed through a model]: We wanted to minimize the area occupied by the building.
[her fingers leave the building]
Morten: No, that's just trees.
Ingrid: I can't visualise it. Sorry. I'm useless.
Morten: No, I should explain it better.
Ingrid: No, that's not it.

...

Ingrid [voiceover]: No, he'd never dare...

...

Ingrid [voiceover]: I no longer know how I look. I have a memory of it. It must be weird to get a blow job from a blind woman, even your wife. It probably makes him feel guilty, as if he's exploiting me or something. The poor guy probably feels obliged to give the handicapped woman a sex life.


And that appears to be entirely true. If there is any truth to it at all.

Ingrid [voiceover]: There was increasing distrust of loners in Norway, especially men. Einar could tell. He still thought about the quote: "How one man's hate could unite us in love."

...

Ingrid [voiceover]: Watching TV is much like before. It's easy to imagine what's happening. How unnecessary the pictures are.

...

Ingrid [voiceover]: He'll probably try again. Slip inside. Sit down and watch. Especially now that we are expecting a child. I'll just have to sit still. Wait until he feels safe. Then I'll get up and walk, not straight toward him, but toward his part of the room.
[she goes to the floor]
Ingrid: As soon as I feel the carpet beneath my feet, I'll just lie down. Right in front of him.
[she rolls onto her stomach and slides down her jeans and panties...she turns onto her back and starts to masturbate]
Ingrid: We'll make it work. He just has to stop being so damn boring.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:52 pm

Another dope fiend in rehab. He is given a day's leave to be interviewed for a job in Oslo. So, will he go? Or, instead, will he go thundering through the day and well into the night, careening from one to another problematic encounter.

Thus: 24 hours to find a better, more constructive path. Or to fuck it all up again and change nothing at all.

So, why do people become dope fiends? I suspect that Renton summed it up best in Trainspotting:

Take the best orgasm you've ever had...multiply it by a thousand, and you're still nowhere near it.

And then that's juxtaposed to this:

Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose a three-piece suit on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourselves. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?

There are just so many godawful potholes in the "modern world" that have to be filled with something. Why not with intense pleasure? As one reviewer noted, "Anders discovers that the world outside is frosty, ambivalent towards him, and most of all banal and meaningless."

And increasingly it is not just "alienated youth" that have come to this conclusion. It's not called "a drug abuse epidemic" for nothing. And not just here in America.

Also, the film explores the transition between "dropping out of society" and the attempt to come back into it again. Especially when so many of the things that made you opt for leaving it are still there. In particular when you are not in the possession of, among other things, any "marketable skills". And even if you do opt for going back there's no guarantee that anyone will want you back.

More then anything the film succeeds in conveying this sense of being tugged in conflicted directions: the straight and narrow...or not?

As for the ending, your reaction is always going to be the same in films like this: given what we've seen so far, does it make any sense? Is it the ending that you'd expect or does it seem to be, among other things, contrived?

Some will be hoping for a "happy ending" here. But, for others, that will only piss them off.

Me, I liked it. Everyone should have this option.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo,_August_31st
trailer: https://youtu.be/YH4TwlZFyNc


OSLO, AUGUST 31ST [2011]
Written in part and directed by Joachim Trier

At a drug rehab session, addicts recall when they were not hooked on dope...

I remember taking the first dip in the Oslo fjord on the first of May.....I remember driving into Oslo on Sunday at sunset. The city was completely empty....I remember how tall the trees seemed compared to those in Northern Norway....I remember thinking, "I'll remember this."...I remember dad sitting in the kitchen, smoking. Drinking coffee, listening to the radio....I don't remember Oslo as such, it's people I remember. We moved to the city. We felt extremely mature.....I remember hours on trams, busses, the metro -- walking along endless roads to some mythical party where you never knew whether you were invited or not....I remember how free I felt the first time I came to Oslo. Then I realized how small Oslo is....I remember mom showing me where she once rented a room. There's only offices there now. Every football match I've played was with friends I still have. And that's because I'm from Oslo....I remember his laughter. The scent of salt on her skin. Everyone was sure we'd win.....I remember the disappointment....I remember the first snow. Everyone smoked back then. How he insisted "melancholy" was cooler than "nostalgic". We had so much time on our hands. How my bed didn't fit into the flat.....I remember walking past his flat...I remember having a best friend. I never saw him again....I remember when they tore down the Philips building. It's a parking lot now...

...

Addict: Well, I'm scared shitless.
Counselor: Scared of the future?
Addict: It's like I'm right back to when I started doing drugs. As if I'm back in primary school emotionally. That black...Void, or... It's like it's back. And the relief from shooting up is gone. So I have serious doubts about how I'm going to live now.

...

Anders: The past days I haven't had any... I haven't had strong feelings in any direction. I feel tired, but that's because I haven't slept well.
Counselor: You've got a big job interview today. Would you like to talk about it?
Anders: Well, there's not much to talk about.

...

Anders: We do role playing, psychodrama. It's part of the treatment. The other residents play people in my life, like my sister or you.
Thomas: So a dope head plays me? So how's it done?
Anders: Well, you have to improvise. They stand in a circle, try to tempt me with stuff. "Anders, remember how the dope makes you feel warm inside. You can just smoke it, no need to shoot up." Well, stuff like that, you know. Or they were suppose to tempt me with academic stuff. But they had no idea. "I've got a really awesome book here, a really cool book. Adorno..."

...

Thomas: Proust said, "Trying to understand desire by watching a nude woman is like a child taking apart a clock to understand time."
Rebecca: Jeez. He's trying to be personal, and you hit him with a quote!
Thomas: So if he's personal, I have to be personal too? But it's been ages since I slept with a Swedish girl.
Rebecca: But his point was the opposite of your Proust quote. He said he didn't feel any desire.


The crux of it [perhaps]:

Anders: But it's not about heroin, not really. Look at me. I'm 34 years old. I have nothing. I can't start from scratch. Don't you understand?
Thomas: I know it's not easy...
Anders: I don't want pity.
Thomas: I know that. I'm just saying you can still make it.
Anders: Make what?
Thomas: Lots of stuff. You've got a family to back you up, friends, brains. Like, come on! Look at the others at rehab. They don't have those opportunities.
Anders: Sure, but they're happy to work in a warehouse and have kids with some ex-raver.
Thomas: Be a loser, if that's what you want.
Anders: No it's not what I want. Fuck, I didn't come here to...I don't need you to tell me to get my act together.

...

Anders: Remember what you once said? "If someone wants to destroy himself, society should allow him to do so."
Thomas: Sounds like something I'd say. I was probably thinking about promoting junk food, or decriminalizing prostitution. I don't know. But you're not...
Anders: I'm a spoilt brat who fucked up. If you're unsentimental about it, nobody needs me. Not really.
Thomas: You expect me to be unsentimental about this?
Anders: No. I'm just trying to...I just want you to understand. If that's how it ends, it's a choice I've made.
Thomas: But you can't go telling me that. That's horrible, Anders. I mean, you mustn't do it, no matter what happens. I can't relate to you telling me you're planning to commit suicide. Is that what you're saying?
[the look on Anders's face: yes]

...

Thomas: You've had these thoughts before. They've always passed. It's hell while it lasts, but...
Anders: It'll get better. It'll all work out. Except it won't.
Thomas: Oh, come on.
Anders: Come on what?

...

Thomas: You got through it before. I mean, if you have to look at your life from the outside...If you have the time, like you had. I think anyone would get depressed.
Anders: Well, maybe. But it's pretty fucked up. I see happy people. I've always thought happy people must be morons.
Thomas: They are morons. Obviously.
Anders: Yeah. But you two are happy. And you're not morons, are you?
Thomas: Sometimes I wonder.

...

Anders: And research is your thing. I never thought it was that thrilling to scrutinize Rilke, dissect sentences, write articles nobody reads. It seems meaningless to me.
Thomas: Well, there goes my existence. Is that how you see my life?
Anders: Sorry. I just... I only meant to say...You're good at all that.


And then it turns out that Thomas is stuck in his own potholes:

Thomas [to Anders]: Rebecca and I hardly have sex anymore. Not at all, really. So there we sit, pretending to have fun. Two glasses of wine. That's as good as it gets. Frigging pathetic. After Albert came, I hoped to start writing. But I haven't done shit. Rebecca and I hardly talk anymore. I got a Playstation. We sit and play Battlefield. Drink beer. We accept some invitations, then decide we'd rather stay at home. We tell the babysitter something's come up. We sit there, playing Battlefield. And Rebecca is really brutal. Takes dog tags from other players, then executes them to humiliate them properly.

...

Anders [at job interview]: Well, you resemble the The Window, which makes it hard to set you apart. Specially when they're better in some areas.
David: Really? Like what?
Anders: You do many things well. But take the article on "Mad Men" and "The Man Without Qualities". It's not a bad idea as such. But there are many of these intellectual articles on HBO TV series and video games. It feels a bit like a media studies paper. You know what I mean? Samantha in Sex in the City seen through Schopenhauer.

...

David: When I look at your CV, there's almost nothing after 2005.
Anders: Well, there wasn't anything I thought would be relevant.
David: Everything's relevant to us. So what were you doing?
Anders: Did some odd jobs from time to time.
David: Okay. Like what?
Anders: You really want to know?
David: Of course.
Anders: I was a drug addict.

...

Woman in restaurant [that Anders overhears]: I want to marry, have kids. Travel the world. Buy a house. Have romantic holidays. Eat only ice cream for a day. Live abroad. Reach and maintain my ideal weight. Write a great novel. Stay in touch with old friends. I want to plant a tree. Make a delicious dinner from scratch. Feel completely successful. Go ice bathing, swim with dolphins. Have a birthday party, a proper one. Live to be a hundred. Stay married until I die. Send an exciting message in a bottle and get an equally interesting reply. Overcome all my fears and phobias. Lie watching the clouds all day. Have an old house full of knickknacks. Run a full marathon. Read a book that's so great I'll remember quotes from it all my life. Paint stunning pictures that show how I really feel. Cover a wall with paintings and words close to my heart. Own all the seasons of my favourite shows. Attract attention to an important issue, make people listen to me. Go skydiving, skinny-dipping, fly a helicopter. Have a good job I look forward to every day. I want a romantic, unique proposal. Sleep beneath open skies. Hike on Besseggen, act in a film or play at the National Theatre. Win a fortune in the lottery. Make useful everyday items. And be loved.

...

Anders [of his parents in voiceover]: He taught me to bike, row, how you can exceed the speed limit by 20% without getting busted. She spoke of adult matters in English She taught me to always floss. To put things back where they belong. They ware both from Oslo. Remembered places we passed. Slightly deaf, he insisted on hearing the absurd: "What do you think is best?" "Got waffles on your chest?" They thought intellecual achievement was superior to sports success. They were sympathetic to celebrities who protected their privacy. They made me a critical reader, contemptuous of the less eloquent. But anyone I brought home got a warm welcome. They never missed the evening news. He took a test, then proudly told us he had an artistic personality. He said people who valued military experience were dull. She held a tolerant view on drugs. He wanted to ban barbecuing in parks. Democracy was just the best alternative. She thought Bardot should help people, not animals. They respected my privacy. Maybe too much. They taught me religion is a weakness. I don't know if I agree. They never taught me to cook or build a relationship, but they seemed happy. They never told me how friendship dissolves Until you're strangers, friends in name only. They let me be picky about food. She said I could do as I wished. Decide what to be, who to love, where to live. They would always help me. They were stricter with my sister than with me.


So, what does that explain?

Girl [in bar]: What do you do?
Anders: What I do? You think that's interesting?
Girl: Of course.
Anders: Well, I don't think it matters much.
Girl: But what do you do? You have to tell me.
Anders: Why? I don't do anything. I'm...I'm just a loser. Drinking to ease the pain.
Girl: You mean like every day?

...

Anders [on phone]: Hi Iselin. It's me again. It's late where you are. I thought you might be out or something. It's nothing really, I just wanted to...I didn't mean all the things I said earlier. But by now you probably knew. I just wanted to talk to you one last time, but... Well...I hope you're okay. I'm sorry.


We know what's coming.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:05 pm

Modern love.

Or, rather, post-modern love.

You meet someone, get married and plan to live happily ever after. And yet in the back of your mind you know that, increasingly, this is less and less likely to actually happen. And it's not all that uncommon these days to wreck the relationships -- the lives -- of those you now swear "to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, until we are parted by death."

Stranger still, how often do you come to realize that the love you had for spouse #1 was actually more genuine and worth sustaining?

I mean, has that ever happened to you?

It's always basically the same thing: What you profess to feel now for this new person is what you once professed to feel for the one you want to be rid of.

Only this is sort of the exception to the rule.

In any event, modern love does not take kindly to plans. The law of unintended consequences and all that. Maggie's plan? To come up with a baby, raise it as a single parent and live happily ever after. Then she bumps into John.

The folks here are straight out of Woody Allen. Liberal and liberated, they are comfortably off and know their away around all things intellectual and artistic. The rest of the world is just sort of "out there" somewhere as they go about the business of being the center of the universe. And, for the kids, this can become really fucked up. In other words, who has time for them?

Also, this is about folks [academics in particular] who get so caught up in their "work", it soon takes precedence over everything else. And over everyone else. So a "happy ending" here is when they figure that out.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maggie%27s_Plan
trailer: https://youtu.be/9al2JBycNHA


MAGGIE'S PLAN [2015]
Written in part and directed by Rebecca Miller

Tony: Hi, how are you?
Maggie: I need a baby!

...

Tony [to Maggie]: Well, just so you know, I have some sperm in a facility uptown, if you're in a pinch.

...

Tony: Guy Childers from college? Wait, wasn't he the guy, he now...what, he's a pickle salesman, right?
Maggie: No, he's a pickle entrepreneur. And he agreed to make a donation, so that I could inseminate myself.
Tony: But he has no sense of personal space.
Maggie: So what? He was a math major. And I'm not gonna marry him. I'm just borrowing his genes.
Tony: But not his personality, I hope.

...

Maggie [to Guy]: I already have health insurance and everything. So I guess the question is, um, how much involvement do you want to have? I was going to suggest none, but, um, I'm open to negotiation.

...

Maggie: So, what do you teach?
John: Uh, Ficto-Critical Perspectives in Family Dynamics. Yeah, and Masks in the Modern Family, Victorian Times to the Present Day.
Maggie: Psychology department?
John: Anthropology. What about you?
Maggie: I'm the Director of Business Development and Outreach for the art and design students. Oh. Uh, what is that? I help graduate students strategize for success in the art and design world. I'm sort of a bridge between art and commerce.
John: You seem a little young for that, no?
Maggie: I have an MBA and a master's in arts management.



See, straight out of Woody Allen.

Printed on Felicia's t-shirt: WHAT WOULD JESUS BUY?

...

John [to Maggie]: I knew this Maasai from Tanzania. He was here to run in a marathon. He took everything about New York City in complete stride. Nothing fazed him until he saw a grown man following his dog and picking up his shit. He started laughing so hard, he wept.

...

Maggie: What is ficto-critical anthropology, anyway?
John: Well, it is a way of writing about anthropology that blends ethnographic observation, storytelling, and, like, theory.

...

Georgette: So, John, of course, we've been discussing the Occupy Wall Street movement...I can't help mentioning the irony that Warner Bros. owns the copyright on the V for Vendetta mask that became the face of the Occupy movement...
John: Whether we like it or not, in this country, the most potent, totemic symbols that we have are cinematic and television-based. So it only makes sense that a radical popular movement would try to subvert them...
Georgette: Nevertheless, the reality of Occupy occurs within the capitalist narrative as a kind of subplot...
Kliegler: This sweeping cynicism of yours...
Georgette: If by "sweeping cynicism," you mean not living in a dream, then shoot me now.
[audience laughs]
John: Nobody ever thinks a revolution is going to happen until three days after it's happened. This is a leaderless movement. It wasn't gonna operate on a schedule. This was a genuine populist uprising.
Georgette: Absolutely. But to return to the use of masks in politics. I am more interested in the possibility of anonymity and group affiliation. The "I am Spartacus" maneuver, which has been the primary tactical explanation for the use of masks among various 20th and 21 st century protest movements. Including the Zapatistas, the black blocs of the anti-globalization movement, and, of course, Pussy Riot.

...

Maggie: I like everything I've read. He's asking me for suggestions.
Tony: What does his wife think about that?
Maggie: She doesn't know about it. To be honest, I don't think she really pays attention to what he does. She's very self-absorbed. She might even be a narcissist....He's basically a psychiatric nurse. He can't write his novel under those conditions. I think their marriage, like, fell apart after the second child. And now he's trapped in it.
Tony: Oh, that's what he's telling you.
Maggie: Why would he lie?
Tony: To get into your pants!

...

Guy [to Maggie]: I'll be back in a jiff with that jizz.

...

Maggie: Why didn't you become a mathematician?
Guy: I liked math because it was beautiful, that's all. I never wanted to be a mathematician.
Maggie: Really? You think math is beautiful?
Guy: Anyone who's touched even a hem of that garment knows it's beautiful. For me, the hem was enough. Couldn't have taken the frustration.
Maggie: What do you mean?
Guy: Never seeing the whole thing. You're always just getting these little glimpses of the whole picture. Spending my whole life hunting for scraps of truth.

...

Electronic voice: "You have a 71% chance of being fertile".

...

John: I'm in love with you. I mean, I'm genuinely locked out of my apartment. I am. But I'm also in love with you. And I don't want to be married to Georgette anymore. And please...please can I...can I sleep in your bed? I don't want you to have a baby with the pickle man. I want you to have a baby with me.

...

Maggie [of a character in John's novel]: I'm Mrs. Jeffries, aren't I? I'm the colorless, efficient postal worker that you fall in love with because she makes your life so much easier.
John: I came up with Mrs. Jeffries before we even met.
Maggie: Yeah, well, you've turned me into her, then. At least I don't have a mustache. Yet.

...

Maggie [of John]: I'm terrified that I'm falling out of love with him. Like, really out of love.
Tony: Felicia and I fall in and out of love pretty much every week. You can't be so idealistic

...

Georgette [at a book reading]: This book was born from pain. My husband, whom I am not ashamed to say I loved with all my heart, though we had a difficult relationship, had an affair with a younger woman, left me and started a new family. And what I gleaned from this exquisite torture are the thoughts which this act of betrayal to me as a woman provoked in me as an anthropologist. I must ask myself, is the contemporary obsession with exclusive possession ruining our chances of marital happiness?

...

Maggie: Georgette is fascinating.
Felicia: Really?
Maggie: Yes. She's warm and powerful and charming all at once and I can see why he was so obsessed with her.
Felicia: I don't think "easy to live with" was on that list, though, you know.
Maggie: I like her. I actually like her! I'm such a blockhead. I thought I was rescuing John from this monstrous egomaniac, so he could finally finish his book. I thought I knew better how to run his life, that I was gonna fix everything. And he's totally self-absorbed,
while I do every single practical thing and make the money, and on top of that...If it weren't for Lily, I would say I made a terrible mistake.
Felicia: It's too bad you can't give him back to his ex-wife. Right?


In other words, Maggie now has a new plan.

Maggie: John and I are in trouble. And I don't think he realizes how much trouble we're in, or he doesn't want to know. And then, when I saw you at the reading, I realized that there might be an opportunity, an opening to somehow get the two of you back together.
Georgette: Oh, I see. I see. So you are tired of your little affair? You're all done with it. Now you want to make sure you don't feel guilty so you're going to manipulate us all into some absurd happy ending. I have met a lot of control freaks in my life, in fact, I thought I was one, but you, you make me look like an amateur.
Maggie: I didn't mean to insult you.
Georgette: Have the decency to leave him and face the fact that you poisoned my life and my children's life, and probably John's life with your own selfishness. That's your burden. You earned it.
Maggie: Uh, wait a minute. If you had such a perfect marriage, why was John miserable? You neglected him and you used him and you didn't believe in his talent.
Georgette: If I am so awful, why are you trying to get me back together with him?
Maggie: Because I think that, actually, even though I do think you are pretty self-absorbed and extremely needy, that he needs it. It keeps him in balance. It's thinking about you that stops him from only thinking about himself.
Georgette: Leave. Leave. Leave. Leave my house, leave.

...

Tony: Love is messy. It's illogical, it's wasteful and it's messy. And it leaves these loose threads that go out all over the place. But you, you like things nice and neat and tidy and ethical. But you screwed that up the minute you got with a married man.
Maggie: You're not being my friend right now.
Tony: Oh, yes, I am. I am being your friend. This is being your friend. I'm being honest with you. Good intentions. You're all about good intentions. Little Miss Quaker Two Shoes is gonna do the right thing. But you always somehow screw it up.
Maggie: Screw you.
Tony: Yeah, screw me. Fine. Just being honest. Trying to be a friend.

...

Tony: I mean, what about Lily, huh? Fathers are a good thing, too.
Maggie: I know that. I know that, but I'm just as afraid of her growing up inside of a dead marriage as her growing up in a house without her dad. Kids can tell when people are pretending.

...

Maggie: Do you even like me anymore?
John [snorting]: What are you trying to get me to say, huh? It sounds like I should be asking you that question.

...

Georgette: I am attending a conference in Canada on ficto-critical anthropology. Ficto-critical anthropology is John's field.
Maggie: I know.
Georgette: I'm in.
Maggie: Really?
Georgette: I have no reason to trust you. On the other hand, I have absolutely nothing to lose. I could easily arrange to have John give a paper at the conference.
Maggie: Do you think he would accept?
Georgette: Slavoj Žižek is speaking. He loves Žižek.

...

Georgette: I'm sorry.
John: For what?
Georgette: For being so self-centered. For not listening to you, to what you needed, for not investing in your work.
John: You don't have to say that.
Georgette: I think I became so caught up in succeeding, in making a name for myself. I stopped paying attention to you, to us, to our marriage. And now I have success, it's as if I've emerged from a tunnel. And I hope in the future, to be less self-absorbed. If I ever get another chance at love.
John: What are you saying? Of course you'll get another chance.
Georgette: You think so?
John: Yeah. Come on! I'm sure they're lining up.

...

Felicia: Well... John and Maggie...He and Georgette...
Tony: What? Like, it worked?
Joihn: What worked?


Uh, oh...

John: Was it a test, huh? Is that it? To see if I was still in love with Georgette as you secretly suspected? You must be very happy now.
Maggie: I felt we were going to break up. And I had a feeling that you were still in love with Georgette. And it turns out you were.

...

Justine [daughter]: Can you please just tell me what's going on?
Maggie: Your dad and I got into a big fight and he's taking some time.
Justine [to Georgette]: Are you and him getting back together?
Georgette: It's a complex situation. Are you sad?
Justine: No.
Georgette: Angry?
Justine: You guys have no idea what you're doing, do you? I mean, there's no plan. Is there?


On the contrary, plans are all there are.


Maggie: Is something burning?

...

Maggie: I just think if you guys saw each other again...
Georgette: No, no. No more matchmaking ideas. No more ideas, period. You've had your thinking license revoked.

...

John: You wanted to see me?
Georgette: [handing him a bag of ashes]: Yes. I wanted to return your book.

...

Georgette: The reason your book doesn't work is you put too much weight in the allegory. You're trying to use fiction to prove a thesis. The text is crying out for pure passages of economic theory. Narrative blended with theory is your specialty. Make it a John Harding book. It could be a phenomenon.
John: You really think so?
George: I know it, John. You just have to accept it'll be published by Yale University Press, and not Scribner's. Probably be shortlisted for a Bateson Prize. You might even win one.
John: Oh, fuck.

...

Maggie: I've decided to embrace the mystery of the universe and stop bossing everybody around so much.
Max [Tony's son]: Good luck with that, bossy pants.
Tony: He's gonna write a book about us one day and we are not gonna look good.

...

Lily: 3,000, 100, 15,000.
Maggie: What kind of 3-year-old loves numbers that much?
Tony: Was John into math? I know you weren't.


Cue Guy.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:07 pm

The tortured artist. Or the dope fiend. From there the sky is the limit. There's no telling how high he's been, how low he's been, and how many folks he ends up taking with him.

To both places.

Especially when what he once was is now gone and he's poised for a comeback. That's the part where the past intertwines with the present and you can never really be certain what that means for the future.

And always the same assumptions [from some]: that however much he twisted his life up into impenetrable knots, all that turbulence was necessary in order that it could be parlayed into great music. It's only a question then of how far you go before it all just becomes pathetic.

The very first scene is riveting: Chet dope sick in an Italian jail reaching for a tarantula crawling creepily out of a trumpet lying a million miles away on a fetid cell room floor.

"He loved his horn, he loved his heroin". And there is never going to be a "right balance" to strike here. You'll just take out of it what you put into it: yourself.

And then there's the part about jazz. A genre [I still] know very little about. But if you are a part of it you are always going to be judged by others as either more or less authentic. Players are always comparing themselves to others. Who is the coolest cat? Who plays the best?

And then the part about race.

Many however will react to it more like this:

I've got no kick against modern jazz
Unless they try to play it too darn fast
And lose the beauty of the melody
Until they sound just like a symphony


In the world of music, there's just no getting around this particular chasm.

That grain of salt though: The film is said to be "semi-factual, semi-fictional".

IMDb

Stephen McHattie, who starred as the father of Chet Baker in this movie, also starred in Robert Budreau's short film 'The Deaths of Chet Baker' in 2009 as Chet Baker.

According to Ethan Hawke on the 'WTF Podcast', he wanted to play 'Chet Baker' going back 15 to 20 years before. Richard Linklater, when approached with Hawke by the idea of a biopic, had his own idea of making a Baker film about a day-in-the-life story about the day before Baker tried heroin for the first time. But because the project couldn't gain traction, and Hawke's age not matching up after years of effort of finding a distributor, the idea was dropped.


at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_to_Be_Blue_(film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/lC1DQ9qIECo


BORN TO BE BLUE [2015]
Written and directed by Robert Budreau

Club announcer: We're proud to present the man who's been voted number one in the nation for both trumpet and vocals. All the way from the sunny shores of California, the James Dean of jazz, the Prince of Cool, the man "Time" magazine credits with inventing West Coast Swing.
[cheers and applause]
Club announcer: That's right, folks. And he's here playing a double bill with our very own Miles Davis and Dizzy Gillespie. Making his Birdland debut, Chet Baker and his quartet!

...

Woman [with a syringe of heroin]: I can't believe you never tried before. You're so square.
Chet: I hate needles. Will you do it for me?
Woman: Yeah.
[she pats his arm]
Woman: Hello, fear.
Chet: Hello fear.
Woman: Hello, death.
Chet: Hello, death.
Woman: Fuck you.
Chet: Fuck you.

...

Woman [playing Elaine, looking down at the dope]: What is this shit? What is this shit?...You did this because of Miles? Chet, say something!


Only it's all an act.
Only it's not.

Dick: A lot, uh, a lot's changed since you left.
Chet: Yeah, I see.
Dick: Jazz is dying. Dylan went electric.
Chet: You sold Pacific, Dick.
Dick: No, I built it up. You tore it down.
Chet: We built it up...
Dick: I built it up.
Chet: We built it up. You tore it down. And...and you sold it out.
Dick: I sold...yeah, at least I didn't abandon my wife and kid and become the world's biggest junkie.
Chet [after a pause]: I did fuck everything up, didn't I?

...

Jane: So what did Elaine like to do?
Chet: Elaine? Mostly, she liked to fuck. Yeah. She liked to fuck, and I liked fuckin' her.
Jane: What? I don't know. Your songs are so romantic. But I guess you never wrote them, right?
Chet: One time, we did it seven times in two hours. What do you think about that?
Jane: Sounds like you fuck too fast.
Chet: Uh, I do better when I'm high.
Jane: So you're really a junkie?
Chet: Huh? I got some habits.
Jane: So what, your parents didn't love you enough or something?
Chet: No, it's nobody's fault.
Jane: So why are you such a fuck-up, then?
Chet: Huh? You want to know? You want to know the truth?
Jane: Yeah, I want to know the truth.
Chet: It makes me happy. I love to get high.

...

Chet: Why don't you come back with me to my place and we can sing?
Jane: That's not a good idea. Listen, I know all about you.
Chet: What do you know?
Jane: I know you're trouble.
Chet: Trouble's good for you.

...

Jane: That's why your playing touches people.
Chet: Mm-hmm.
Jane: It's like what Chekhov said when his patients were fevering on what kind of food they liked to eat: "Something sour." And my dad read me all the philosophers before I was a teenager, but Chekhov? He thought that the feelings that we experience when we're in love are our normal state, that being in love shows a person who he should really be.

...

Doctor [voiceover]: He's got severe trauma to the neck... possible fracture of the cheek. He's lost all his front teeth....
Dick [voiceover]: You know what an embouchure is? Like a piano player not having any hands. 28 eight years of practice, gone. He'll never play again.

...

Newscaster [on TV]: And from the Hollywood, a dramatic U-turn. The studio is now shelving the Chet Baker movie, which was meant to launch the recently paroled jazz legends comeback.
Jane: They haven't called me. They can't shelve the movie that quickly.
Dick: That was no stranger that did this. That was Chet's dealer.

...

Dick: Do you think the studio's gonna have anything to do with this? Just wake up.
Jane: Okay, wait, somebody must be able to help. I mean, somehow...
Dick: How many people have called? How many people have come to visit? We're all here. This is everybody. And I'm leaving.
[he looks down at Chet in the hospital bed]
Dick: I've looked after you for 13 years, Chet. But I'm...I'm done.

...

Miles: Must be real hard posing for all these pretty pictures.
Chet: I'm just trying to sell records, right'?
Miles: Right. Let me tell you something. I never trust a cat... let loot or love effect his art. You think them silly white girls out there understand a lick about jazz'?...You want some advice, Baker? Go back home to the beach, man. This ain't the place for you. Come back when you've lived a little.

...

Jane: So you're gonna kill yourself because you can't play trumpet anymore?
Chet: Yes.
Jane: Am I supposed to feel sorry for you? Play something else. Sing.
Chet: Maybe we haven't been introduced. My name is Chet Baker. I'm one of the greatest trumpet players of my generation. One of the best jazz improvisationalists.
Jane: So it's trumpet or nothing?
Chet: Yes.

...

Chet: When I was released from the army, a little while later I came home one day...and there was a note on my door. It said, "Auditions with Charlie Parker at the Tiffany Club, 3:00 p.m." I saw it. I grabbed my horn, and I went over there. I could see 30 or 40 trumpet players all sitting there, and every trumpet player in LA was there. And there he was, biggest ass, but he was somebody, right? And then after a while, he says, "ls Chet Baker here?" Somebody must've told him about me, right? And I said, "Yeah. Yeah, Bird, l-Im here." And so I came up, and we played "Toot Toots." We played "Cheryl" and "The Song ls You." He took the microphone. He said, "Thanks for coming, everybody. This audition is over."
Jane: He gave you the job just like that?
Chet: Just like that. He said I was "bixellated."
Jane: He was a big, fat junkie by then, right?
Chet: Don't talk shit about Bird. It was an honor to score for him.
Jane: Some role model.
Chet: Yeah, he was. He was. He never hurt anybody but himself. Just like me.

...

Chet [to himself]: Hey, Miles. Hey, Dizzy. There's a white cat on the West Coast gonna eat you up.

...

Chet: I sold a lot of that record.
Father: Hmm.
Chet: How many records did you sell? Oh, that's right. You-you quit, right? I didn't quit.
Father: Yeah. But I never embarrassed my family. I never dragged the Baker name through the mud.
Chet [after a pause]: Good-bye, Dad.

...

Dick: So I heard you were clean.
Chet: I am. I'm clean. Ever since the accident.
Dick: Accident? How much you need?
Chet: Dick...I just need a session, man.
Dick: I heard you were playing some pizza parlor.
Chet: Yeah, yeah.
Dick: I didn't even think that that would be possible.

...

Jane: You went and saw Dick, right? What did he say?
Chet: Told you. He said no. I mean, you know, I'm not gonna beg him.
[he sighs]
Chet: At this point, I'd do anything.

...

Jane: How is he doing?
Dick: Oh, he's, uh, struggling.
Jane: You said he'd never play again.
Dick: I don't know what's worse, Chet not playing or Chet playing mediocre.

...

Dick: You know, this is the first time I've seen him sweat. Everything came so easily for him musically. I think that was one of the problems.
Jane: You think he'll ever play high-level again?

...

Chet [to Jane's father]: I mean, here's the deal, all right? I don't mind if you want to give me a lecture about being responsible or anything like that, but if you start talking to me about music or talent or Bird... you know, uh, I might have to say, "Fuck you."

...

Chet: Danny was saying he's thinking about Birdland.
Dizzy: Look, Chet, you've come a long way, but, uh-
Chet: But what?
Dizzy: Well, they only do special events now.
Chet: Dizzy, come on. You've still got pull there. Everybody respects you. You got the-the key to the gate, you know?
Dizzy: You ain't ready or Birdland, man.

...

Dizzy: A sound that's all your own. Ain't no denying that.
Chet: And I'm ready to play Birdland.
Dizzy: It's not your playing that I'm worried about. All things be ready if your mind be so. Are you sure you're ready to come back?
Chet: I've learned three different embouchures, all right? I got a left, I got a center, and I got a right, and if you let me sing, okay, I can play two full sets before my teeth fall out, okay?
Dizzy: Eyes on the prize. God, you are a glutton beggar. I'll get you Birdland. But don't say I didn't warn you.

...

Chet [at Birdland]: Miles is here too?
Dick: Everybody's here.

...

Chet: I'm not getting a cold. I ran out of methadone, you know.
Dick: What did you say?
Chet: Two days ago, I ran out of methadone.
Dick: You...you stopped taking your medicine? You---Chet, come on! You've got every cat on the East Coast out there waiting for you to play the biggest gig of your career, and then you...
Chet: I don't want a career, Dick. I told you that. If I wanted a career, I'd get a fucking job.
Dick: Okay, okay.
Chet: Okay? I wanna play. All I want to do is play.

...

Dick: Chettie, I found some methadone. I didn't take no for an answer. Remember Johnny Red? He was holding...
[he looks down at the dresssing room table --- at the heroin spoon]
Dick: Fuck. It's all gonna start again. Jane will leave you.
Chet: I don't think I can play otherwise.

...

Dick: Take the methadone. I mean, you've been playing great on it.
Chet: Yeah, it sounded great. You said that if I really nail this show, there'll be lots of gigs, right? Maybe a European tour?
Dick: Look, I thought you didn't want a career.
Chet: I want my life back. Dick, come on. I want to play music the way that I want to play it. You know, this is my last chance.
Dick: No.
Chet: Yes.
Dick: No.
Chet: Yes.
Dick: But it is a chance, but if you...If you sing with the tongue of angels but you have no love, then you're a clanging cymbal.
Chet: What-what does that mean?
Dick: I don't want you to be empty out there. It gives me confidence. It does. Time gets wider, you know. Not just longer. And...and I can just...oh, I can get inside every note. I can.
Dick: Every pretty note?
Chet: Yeah.
Dick: But that's you. That's all you. It's always been you. Your choice.

...

Jane [taking Chet's "ring" from around her neck]: Will you give this to Chet?
Dick: I'm sorry.
Jane [turning to walk away]: Don't be sorry for me.


We know what he chose, don't we?

Titlecard: After his comeback in New York City, Chet Baker went to Europe where he lived for the rest of his life. He made some of the best music of his career and remained a heroin addict. He died in 1988 in Amsterdam.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:21 pm

I have always detested bullies. To torment another human being just because you want to, because you can and because you can get away with it, has always struck me as a particularly despicable behavior.

So I am drawn to films that explore it.

On the other hand, I am still no less entangled in my "moral dilemma". So I recognize the extent to which this behavior, as with my reaction to it, is no less embedded in dasein embedded in conflicting goods. And, in particular, a "good" here that often revolves around the mentality of the sociopath. Tormenting others enhances the bully's self-gratification and that [for all practical purposes] is the center of his universe.

Here, however, the bullying is embedded in a particularly surreal context. High school teens [the ones from "detention room" of course] hatch a plot to expunge and then to change grades in the school computer. From that a calamity ensues and all but one of them are dead. The school hires an attorney to deal with the inevitable law suits. In getting to the bottom of it however all bets are off. For example, the bully is the teacher. Or maybe it's the principal. Or maybe its the attorney herself.

Follow the money.

All of this unfolds in a brand new world -- a brave new world -- of cyber-reality. It's just mind-boggling all of the things that get can be accomplished "technologically".

You wonder: Is something like this even possible?

Finally, you will be asking yourself: Why does this remind me of The Usual Suspects? You will either see the twist coming at the end or you won't.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H8RZ
trailer: https://youtu.be/pwFOny1b6DI


H8RZ [2015]
[pronounced "Haters"]
Written in part and directed by Derrick Borte

Principal: You better believe that once this thing leaks, every ambulance chasing bloodsucking attorney in the state will be calling on us here.
Laura: I'm here to build a case that Alex's own poor decision making lead to the situation. As a result any publicity or law suits will go away.


From here on though nothing is as it seems.

Laura [to Alex]: I need you to tell me every single detail. Even the ones you didn't tell the police.

...

Quote from Nietzsche on classroom wall: 'The wreckage of stars - I built a world from this wreckage.'

...

Alex: What if I don't have anything to say?
Laura: That's your prerogative. But I need to warn you that I can make the rest of your formative years extremely difficult.

...

Teacher: If you are going to cheat on a multiple choice test, at least get a couple wrong. Aim for a B+ tops.

...

Alex [to Laura]: They told us about their big plan. They've been thinking about it since they were freshmen. It was actually a good idea considering these were the guys who thought that setting off a stink bomb was a revolutionary act.

...

Jack [at the "office meeting"]: Over 150,000 students skip school everyday because they are being bullied. And at least 1 in 20 students have witnessed another student with a gun at the school.
Principal: We know this is a problem, Jack. We are trained by the state on how to deal with it.
Jack: So why isn't it getting any better?

...

Alex [to Laura]: And then overnight everything changed. We were on top of the world. There was no way any of us could have guessed what was coming next.

...

Text from Tiffany Tammand [to Carla]: "Wish you could change the past like you changed your grades?"


This from a student who had [supposedly] committed suicide.

Alex [to Laura]: These are the kids that run the school. They make the rules and dish out the punishments. Adults have no idea what kids are really like.

...

Laura: You were a nobody that they took advantage of to get into the principal's office.
Alex: No, we were a team.
Laura: What team member let's his friends die so that he can go to college?


Again, Laura has absolutely no idea what is really going on here. In fact, almost no one does.

Cameron [to a pixilated image of Brittany online]: I'll kill you!
Brittany: I'm dead already, remember?

...

Laura: Why do you think that Cameron was the first one Brittany contacted?
Alex: Everyone knows that Cameron is the one to go to if you are looking for something that's hard to find.
Laura: Like drugs?
Alex: I said hard to find.

...

Alex [voiceover]: We knew Brittany was having us gather pieces to a puzzle, we just had no idea what the puzzle was going to add up to. We should have known when it started to involve a fake ID, social security numbers and stolen leases we were getting into something a lot more serious than just changing grades.

...

Alex [voiceover]: I couldn't believe how easy it was. A photo ID, a social security number and proof of residence was all we needed to create a bank account. With a few pieces of information we made a person out of thin air.

...

Laura [to the principal]: You embezzled money from a charity fund for a suicide victim!

...

Cameron [to Faustin]: You know, after this is all over, I plan to do a lot of smart things. I'd watch my back if I was you.
[Faustin snorts and walks away]

...

Cameron: What if we just take out Faustin?
Jack: What?
Alex: Are you crazy, we're not criminals.
Cameron: After all this shit, you're not a criminal?!

...

Alex [to Jack]: I just figured out a way to steal a half million dollars.

...

Laura: You were pushed to the breaking point by a very sick man but that doesn't mean you were innocent. You stole, cheated, lied...if a jury heard all that and knew you were the only survivor you would go to jail.
Alex: I did what I had to do.
Laura: People lost their lives, Alex.
Alex: We were victims. You said it yourself.
Laura: I can prove that you robbed the school of a half a million dollars.
[she chuckles]
Laura: You're pathetic.

...

Alex/Brittany [voiceover]: No one even noticed. She just walked into the lake and was gone.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:45 am

Imagine living in China today and being old enough to remember the Cultural Revolultion. And then somehow having to reconcile that with the state capitalist contraption the nation has reconfigured into today.

In fact, you still see statues of Mao Zedong strewn about the country. But how on earth is he treated now in schools, in corporate boardrooms, in government offices, in daily conversations?

One thing never changes though. Whenever there is social, political and economic changes of this magnitude there are going to be winners and losers. And the winners will rationalize their victories and the losers will rationalize their losses.

Here the main protagonist, Shen Tao knows of the Cultural Revolution only through that which she has been taught. And taught in a state where that which you have been brought up to believe is the only way in which you are expected to think about everything. But that is all literally in the past. This film explores her life in the years 1999 and 2014 in China. And then segues to the imagined life of her son in the year 2025. In, of all places, Queensland, Australia.

More than anything it's an incisive exploration into grappling with how individual men and women are forced to draw a particular line between that which is deemed "personal" and that which is deemed "political". Between "I" and "we" in a culture [and a world] that is changing by leaps and bounds.

Some things more or less stay the same because in the end we are "human all too human". But other things are utterly dependent on your own unique trajectory from the cradle to the grave. And yet both here and there [in the "modern world"] it is increasingly all about money. Success or failure is more or less measured materialistically. And with each passing generation the individual comes to be more and more on their own.

For better and for worse. And it is all just a point of view, isn't it?

As for the ending: You tell me.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountains_May_Depart
trailer: https://youtu.be/qc1ZKyhMG6o


MOUNTAINS MAY DEPART [Shan He Gu Ren] 2015
Written and directed by Zhangke Jia

Zhang [who has just bought a coal mine]: Liangzi, what are we going to do?
Liangzi: About what?
Zhang: I like Tao too.
Liangzi: Then tell her so yourself.
Zhang: I'll make it plain. Just stay away from her. You have no chance with her.
Liangzi [turning on a miner's helmet lamp and shining it in Zhang's face]: Let's see what an elite face looks like.
Zhang: I'm telling you this as a friend.
Liangzi: Piss off.
Zhang [after a pause]: Okay...From now on, our friendship is over. And you'd better get the fuck out of my mine.
Liangzi: Don't you worry. The day I beg you for a living, I'll be dead.
Zhang: I see. You've got balls.


Socialist or capitalist: Some things never change. It's all about power and money and options. Tao is young and beautiful. Zhang owns the mine. He just fired Jiangzi, his lowly employee. Do the math.

Liangzi: So, you've made your decsion.
Tao [after a long pause]: We are still good friends.
[Liangzi scoffs]
Zhang [walking over to them]: Are you on Viargra? Following her around all day?
[Liangzi punches him in the face and walks away]

...

Zhang [after Tao gives birth]: Baby Zhang Dollar.
Tao: Are you really giving him that name?
Zhang [looking down at the infant]: Sure I am! Zhang Dollar. Papa will make you lots of dollars.


Jump to the year 2014...

Jiangzi: Surgery, chemotherapy...they cost big money.
Wife: Then give me the numbers of your friends and relatives. I'll borrow money from them tomorrow.
Jiangzi: That makes no sense. Borrowing money is a serious matter, I'd have to go in person.

...

Friend: Zhang Jinsheng has gotten big. He has investments in Shanghai. He's a real capitalist now.
[Jiangzi takes that in]
Friend: But he and Tao are dovorced.

...

Jiangzi's wife: You don't know me. I'm...Liangzi's wife.
Tao: Liangzi. Liangzi is back?
Wife: Yes, he is.
Tao: How is he?
Wife [weeping]: He's not good. Not good...

...

Dollar [as a child]: Papa's name is Peter now.
Tao: Peter? He even has a foreign name now....You're better off with your dad. Stay with him in Shanghai. You can go to International School and then abroad. You're mama is of no use to you...No one can be with you all your life. We are fated to be apart.


Jump to the year 2025...

Zhang [reading something Dollar wrote]: You can do it all, can you? You're the Top Gun? Superman? Who do you think you are?
Dollar: What?
Zhang: You say you can do anything?
Dollar [about Zhang reading what he wrote]: That's not right!
Zhang: Can't you even learn to speak your old man's Chinese?! You understand "old man"? Old man means father. I am your old man. The father of Dollar Zhang!

...

Dollar [in English]: I want to quit college. Nothing there is of interest to me. I could be doing anything.
[Mia translates this into Chinese]
Zhang [after putting a clip in a revolver]: I have just one question for him. If he moves out qwhere is he going to live?!
[he turns to Dollar]
Zhang: How will you aurvive without a college degree? Where did you pick up all this shit?!!
[Mia translates this into English]
Dollar: I'm free to do what I want!
[Mia translates this into Chinese]
Zhang [to Dollar]: Do you know what freedom is?
[he turns to Mia]
Zhang: China does not permit the individual to own guns. But Australia just changed the law, you can buy guns. I now own a pile of guns, but no one to fire them at! So what is freedom? Freedom is bullshit!!
Mia [to Dollar in English]: Freedom can be interpreted in many different ways.

...

Dollar: That woman in there she was so rude.
Mia [who is older than his mother]: Yeah. She thought we were mother and son. So, how would we introduce me to your mother if we go back to China? Your teacher? Your acquaintence? Your girlfriend?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:42 pm

Dysptopia.

No, not that kind.

Here we have a world in which everything is always as it ought to be but is only as it ought to be in order to create the illusion of tranquility.

The perfect world. A world where everyone has a part to play and the part they play is the only part they would ever want to play. In other words, a well-ordered, comfortable but utterly soulless existence.

And, apparently, it may well be based on....reality? As one reviewer from IMDb noted...

I moved to Norway four months ago, and have tried ever since to find the origin of the strange emptiness i felt. When I saw this film I was stricken with the brilliant snapshot of this society. Yes, this is all true!!! I too found a great job with a great pay, and I live with my Norwegian boyfriend in a nice apartment downtown. But, so far everyone I have met have left me with that tasteless, empty feeling I had never had before.

So, is this true? I couldn't tell you. But almost every nation has a rendition of it. Communities in which folks behave in an entirely predictable and fiercely civilized manner. A place in which nothing out of the ordinary is tolerated.

And, indeed, there are any number of men and women who would construe such an existence not as a hell on earth but as a paradise. Think Truman's world. But in reality.

Well, if reality was a fantasy. A surreality as it were. Out of the blue, Andreas sort of just pops up in town. Like the ghost of Travis Henderson. As though he was expected. He is given an apartment, he is given a car, he is given a job.

The rest is largely...allegorical?

Here's one take on it: https://ruthlessculture.com/2009/04/14/ ... -man-2006/

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bothersome_Man
trailer: https://youtu.be/wOAS4gke5s0


THE BOTHERSOME MAN [Den Brysomme Mannen] 2006
Directed by Jens Lien

Andreas: There's something wrong with the booze in this place. They've watered it down or put something in it.
Drunk: Nothing wrong with the booze.
Andreas: I've been drinking all night, but it doesn't work.
Hugo [in toilet stall]: Doesn't work. My head's still clear. It's terrible.
Drunk: Don't listen to him. He's drunk.
Hugo: I've spent everything I've earned on booze, but still nothing. There's no point.
Drunk: And philosophical. Drunk and philosophical.
Hugo: And hot chocolate's supposed to be nice. Dark and tasty. It doesn't taste any good. And it's all like that. Hot chocolate, pussy and burgers. Nothing has any taste.

...

Andreas: What do you do?
Anne: I sell kitchen interiors.
Andreas: Interesting.

...

Woman: The bathroom is important. Some say the kitchen is the most important, but I think it's the bathroom. What do you think?
Andreas: The bathroom is important. Yes.

...

Andreas: I've met someone else.
Anne: What do you mean?
Andreas: Another woman.
Anne: Why?
Andreas: I fell in love with someone at work. I didn't plan to.
Anne [matter of factly]: I thought we were happy.
Andreas: We were. But then I fell in love.
Anne: Why?
Andreas: I'm going to leave you.
Anne: We're having guests on Saturday. Are you leaving before Saturday?
Andreas: I can stay until Saturday.
Anne: That would be good.

...

Anne: Nordby called and invited us to the go cart track on Saturday.
Andreas [dripping in blood]: Go cart?
Anne: On Saturday. Do you want to?
Andreas: Yes, sounds nice.

...

Andreas: We met in the men's room. You complained that nothing tasted like anything. Nothing tasted any good. You were quite loud.
Hugo: Sorry.
Andreas: You went on and on. You talked about hot chocolate.
Hugo: Sorry about that. I've calmed down now.
Andreas: Let me in.
Hugo: Could you please leave?
Andreas: Let me in.
Hugo: Do I have to?
Andreas: Yes.
[he opens the door and lets Andreas in]
Hugo: I don't want to make any trouble. Could you please leave now? You can't tell anyone about this. I found it a couple of months ago.
Andreas [of the beautiful music they hear playing]: Where does it come from?
Hugo [pointing]: From that hole.

...

Andreas: I miss so many things, Håvard.
Håvard: The new lamps have arrived.

...

Woman [the city mayor]: Most people are happy here, Andreas. They think it's a nice city. They have everything they need. People are happy. The majority of people are happy. And we're proud of that.

...

Man [greeting the new arrival]: Welcome. The car is over there.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:45 am

Shades of Foxy Knoxy?

A young woman from Spain newly transplanted to Berlin falls for a local and his three buddies. Real Berliners. And then in the course of one tumultuous night -- out of the blue -- she gets caught up in a bank robbery. Everything in her life will then always be measured by before and after this extraordinary chain of events.

The part in particular where everything falls apart at the seams. The part where she is kidnapping a baby just stay out of jail.

Also shades of Russian Ark above. As with that film, this one consist of one continuous shot. Only Ark was 96 minutes long and Victoria is 134 minutes long. It took three attempts to pull it off. This is only the second European film to attempt it.

What makes the film mesmerizing is the way in which you drawn into it as though you were actually watching these people. Or as though you were even there with them. A slice of "real life" that topples over into a turn of events you would never have anticipated.

As such, it depicts so clearly how the snowball effect [or the butterfly effect] can unfold in human interactions.

It's just that for most of us our days are pretty routine. The snowball rolls down the hill but the slope is not enough to really change much. But then suddenly one day you bump into someone...

Sonne [to Victoria]: You want to ride with us...ride with us...in my car?

...and you choose to go along. And he takes you into a whole other world. A world that [for better or for worse] would never have existed had you just ignored his overtures.

And then there is the part where you begin to wonder why would she choose to do what she did. After all, when she first happened upon them [in the wee hours of the morning] they were attempting to steal a car. What in the past had prompted her to be so....reckless?

And I thought that her explanation [of sorts] was amazing.

IMDb

The original screenplay was very short (only 12 pages), since a large part of the dialogue was improvised. Because of this, the writers are credited for story and not for screenplay.

Despite its positive reviews, this movie was disqualified for an Academy Award nomination in the Best Foreign Language Film category due to its large amounts of English dialogue.

Just like the other famous one-take film Russian Ark, Victoria was to be filmed only three times. In the case of both films this succeeded with the third, and last, take.

In the scene right after the bank robbery Laia Costa actually forgot where to drive and takes the wrong turn. Everyone's outburst of panic in the car is completely genuine as they were risking filming crew members and thus ruining the whole take. Even the director Sebastian Schipper, who was lying in the trunk of the car, started screaming directions in sheer panic. His screaming was later removed during audio editing. The car actually ended up driving past crew members but none of them can be seen thanks to the cameraman who reacted quickly by filming from a much lower angle so as not to have any windows in the frame.


at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_(2015_film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/e9tKRK2qj0I


VICTORIA [2015]
Directed by Sebastian Schipper

Victoria: Are you stealing that?
Sonne: No, no. I pay tomorrow! I don't want...He's a friend of mine. Really. I swear, he's a friend of mine...
Victoria: OK.
Sonne: I pay him tomorrow. I know him very long time.

...

Boxer: Tell her why I'm famous. I'm famous! I'm famous.
Sonne: He stole a truck. He stole a truck and he went on a highway to Poland.
Victoria: That's true? And you were famous for that?
Boxer: I was eleven! It was on the news. There was an interview.

...

Boxer [explaining his tattoo]: I smashed a guy.
Victoria: What?!
Boxer: I really hurt...I hurt a guy very bad.
Victoria: But what's the relation with the tattoo?
Boxer: I'm not a bad guy. I just...I did a bad thing, OK?
Victoria: Yeah, but... You did this tattoo for that reason? Because you did something bad?
Sonne: Who cares? He was in jail...
Victoria: You were in jail?

...

Victoria: You don't seem German at all.
Sonne: We are real Berlin guys. There are many people just coming here and think they are Berlin. But we are Berlin. We're real Berlin. Multicultural. You know?

...

Sonne [amazed at her skills playing the piano]: I never, ever... I never hear something like this before. Really. Show me your hands. It's like wonder hands. Really!
Victoria: They're just hands.
Sonne: No. What's the name of the song?
Victoria: It's "Mephisto Waltz", you know?
Sonne: Mephisto? Mephisto, he's like a devil, huh?
Victoria: Yeah, it's the devil.
Sonne: I like the devil.
Victoria: Yeah, me too.
Sonne: But one question. Really...Why you don't play...? You have to play...You have to play in concert halls. Why do you do something like this!
Victoria: I've been... I've been... I don't know the name, how you say that... I've been... in the conservatory, you know... I was in the conservatory. and I cannot continue in the conservatory because I'm not good enough, or something like that.
Sonne: Because they're stupid, or what?
Victoria: No, it's OK. I prefer that.
Sonne: No, really... Because it's amazing. It's like. You know, I...
Victoria: No, it's not amazing...I don't know. I've been like sixteen and a half years practicing playing the piano every day, like seven hours every day. Seven is the maximum. You cannot play more, because you're gonna hurt your arms. And it's a really hard life, because you have no...you have no life. You have no friends. Well, the friends are like the other guys that are in the conservatory...but they are not your friends really. They're like your enemies. Because they are fighting for your dream too.
Sonne: But was it your dream... to play?
Victoria: Not any more.No. Because it's... You are... You... You can became a bad... I don't know. I was just thinking, for my friends, they should fail in their exams... because then I would have, like, more opportunities for me! our teacher said to us that just the 90% of us, we are lasing our lime. It's really difficult to became a real piano player. And it's better like this. You know, when I was 12 I can remember, I was like an old lady...just playing always the fucking piano.


And then the fateful phone call...

Victoria [after Sonne gets off the phone]: What? What happens?
Sonne: I have to do Boxer a favour. We have to go now to...do some work.
Victoria: Now you have to work with them?
Sonne: Yeah, I have to go. Yeah, yeah.

...

Boxer: Man! Just fuck it!
Sonne: Call him and tell him it's off! Fuck it!
Boxer: We can't!
Sonne: We don't have to do it tonight!
Boxer: He wants four of us!
Sonne: But not tonight!
Boxer: I gave him my word!

...

Sonne: Just call him and postpone it!
Boxer: We can't postpone! I owe him! You know what I mean!


We know where this is going...

Sonne: You know...You don't have to do this. Really, you don't have to do this. But...Boxer. He was in jail, yeah? And there was this guy giving him protection. Like...The guy do him a favour...Now he have to do something for him. For this guy. And now we have to go there with four guys...And Fuss is completely...You know...? You just have to...Please, can you help us?

...

Sonne: We just go there...And after this bring you back to the cafe no problem. We just need now help because...Boxer is in trouble if not, you know.
Victoria: And you need to be four?
Sonne: Yeah. I don't know why.
Victoria: I just drive you there and then I come back?
Sonne: We bring you back. We bring you back, no problem.
Victoria: OK. No problem. It's something bad to do, or...?
Boxer: We've got five minutes. Five fucking minutes!
Sonne: It's something not... after, maybe it's something bad. But it's not about you. You know, we just go there and bring you back. Really, that's not bad for you. OK? Really. I swear. It's not bad for you.
Victoria: OK. I go.

...

Blinker: We're meeting a real gangster. That's interesting!
Boxer: Shut the fuck up!
Blinker: Got it, Boxer. Everything's cool.
Boxer: Stop frightening the girl, retard!
Blinker: We're not frightening her.


She doesn't speak German.

Andi: These are your boys?
Boxer: Yes.
Andi: Who's the bitch? Are you guys fucking her?
Boxer: The bitch is our driver.
Andi: You don't say. Get out. You're the driver? Done this before?
Victoria: I don't speak German.
Andi: What the fuck? She doesn't speak German?!

...

Andi: I can't force you.
Boxer: Then we won't. We won't do it.
Andi: Boxer, back in jail you enjoyed my protection. You owe me. Ten grand. And I want that money.
Boxer: I'll get the money.
Andi: You had no money for cigarettes and now you'll find ten grand?
Boxer: Give me a week, OK?
Andi: One week? OK. While you're getting the money, I'll keep the bitch.
[A thub grabs Victoria]
Sonne: We'll do it. We'll do it! Hey, we'll do it, OK? We'll do it, man!

...

Andi: Tilidine, cocaine. Take some. It makes you confident and aggressive. If you're busted, you'll do less time. Bitch, you too.

...

Boxer: I'll do it alone.
Sonne: I come with you. I drive you....Guys, for once, everyone together. Come here. Blinker, come here! Blinker, come here, man!
Blinker: No, let's go, let's go!
Sonne: Relax, for once. But we're taking her back first!
Victoria: Sonne. I want to go with you.

...

Sonne: Go! Go! Go! Go! Come on!
Victoria: The car, the car is not going on! The car is not going on! Boxer! The car is not going on! The car is not fucking going on!

...

Boxer: Let's check what Fuss is doing, you stupid morons!
Victoria: Oh, my god! Fuss! He's still in the car!
Sonne: I totally forgot about him! I completely forgot him!

...

Sonne [with the cops in pursuit and bullets flying]: Why'd you let me into your shitty apartment with a baby?
Mother: I don't know...
Sonne: Are you stupid? You can't let me in when there's a baby here! How stupid are you? How stupid are you, man?!

...

Police [over a loudspeaker]: Attention, residents! This is the police! Please stay in your homes. Keep your doors closed. Don't let anyone in! We will inform you once the situation is under control. Attention, residents! This is the police! Secure your doors and windows.

...

Victoria: Listen. Listen to me. I'm going to take your baby. Listen to me!
Mother: Not my baby! No!
Victoria: Come. Listen to me. Listen to me. Look at me!
Mother: Not my baby.
Victoria: We are good people. We need your help. Now. Right now!
Mother: Not my baby!
Victoria: Look at me! Your baby's going to be OK! Your baby's going to be OK. I promise. We need your help. We just need to go out. Your baby's going to be in that store in five minutes. I promise. I promise to you. We need just your help. Please.

...

News reporter [on TV]: The police identified the getaway car, which led to the first thief's arrest. There was a shootout between police and the thieves here in Kochstrasse... One of the thieves died at the scene, another one on the way to the hospital... Two suspects, a man and a woman in their twenties, are still at large.

...

Sonne: Listen, listen. You go... you go now...You take the money.
Victoria: What?!
Sonne [gasping for breath]: Nobody knows who you are. Take the money. Go to Spain. You go. Go!
Victoria: Sonne, I'm going to call a fucking ambulance, OK?
[she calls for the ambulance]

...

Victoria: Sonne. Sonne. OK, listen. Listen. They are on their way. They're coming. Sonne, look at me! Sonne, look at me. Hey! Stay with me, OK? They're coming. They are on their way. Stay. Hey...Look at me. Stay with me. Sonne, stay. Sonne, stay with me. Stay! Stay. Sonne, stay. Stay! Stay! Stay! Stay. No, stay. Sonne, stay. Stay with me. Stay. Stay...Stay.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:04 am

Miles Davis.

Try to imagine the gap between his life and your own life and the lives of everyone else. And, given that the gap here is probably going to be huge, it is highly unlikely that what you think you know about him will be in sync with what others think they know about him will be in sync with the way he really was.

But who was Miles Davis? Well, like many of our more notorious "celebrities", we have only a sense of this. He will pop into our consciousness from time to time as we go about the business of living our lives -- something we see on TV or in a movie; or something that we read in a book or an article sometime, somewhere.

For the most part, he will inhabit that part of our brain that is rooted in all manner of particular stereotypes and political prejudices. Some more or less sophisticated.

And, as always in films like this, the focus will be on exploring the interface between and artist and the man. Between the personal and the political. Between "I" and "we" and "them". And that can then revolve around any number of things: gender, race, sexual orientation, class, personality, character.

A number of parallels here between Miles Davis and Chet Baker from Born To Be Blue above. In fact Miles Davis shows up a number of times in that film as well. But this one is considerably more "non-linear". It jumps back and forth in time. In fact the actual story that unfolds between Dave and Miles here is completely made up. It all becomes a more "impressionistic" portrait. It's as though Cheadle is improvising with the plot in the manner in which a jazzman might improvise with the melody.

IMDb

The Rolling Stone reporter, Dave Braden, is entirely fictional. In an interview with Rolling Stone, published March 14, 2016, Ewan McGregor said "It's less a Miles biopic than an attempt to cast Miles in a caper flick that he might like to have been part of."

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_Ahead_(film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/ssfTNCTVT5U


MILES AHEAD [2015]
Written in part and directed by Don Cheadle

Dave: I don't want to just go down that whole litany of things. The drugs, women, your muse. But if we can go back a bit for context, and explore your earlier stuff, modal jazz, and its influence on...
Miles: I don't like that word, "jazz". Don't call it "jazz", man, that's some made-up word. Trying to box somebody in. Don't call my music "jazz". It's social music.
Dave: Alright. Social music. Perfect.

...

Dave: Well, what made you stop playing in the first place?
Miles: I didn't...I didn't have nothing to say. I just didn't have nothing to say.

...

Dave: Five years...not playing at all. How did you find your way back to it?
Miles: A lot of shit. You know, a lot of shit goes through your mind when you're quiet. You have a lot of thoughts. And they can sometimes be fighting each other. You know, like a war. I'm a gemini, so I'm two people anyway. I was born modal. This and that. And some day you sit there and something clicks. And that's it. You start playing. That's it.

...

Dave [recording the interview with Miles]: In 1975, one of the most prolific voices in music went silent for five years, leaving the world...
Miles [interjecting]: Man, you ain't no Walter Cronkite. If you're going to tell a story, come with some attitude man. Don't, you know, don't be all corny with this shit.
Dave [chuckling]: Alright then, you're the artist, Miles, how would you say it?


He then says it with his horn.
Then back up. Cue the past. Cue the dope and all that shit.

George [on phone]: Hello, Miles.
Miles: My check didn't come today, George. Where's my money? 20,000 dollars. You trying to piss me off?
George: Of course not, but where is the session tape? We can't release more money until...
Miles: It's the same bullshit.
George: ...until Columbia gets that new music. 20,000 is chump change compared to the business we're going to do. I know there's gold on that session tape, man. Let's get you in that fighting form again and start working on that comeback.
Miles: I ain't going nowhere, George. Now you want some music send me my fucking money.

...

Miles: The Miles Davis story. My words.
Dave: That would be great.
Miles: Okay, I was born. I moved to New York, met some cats, made some music, did some dope, made some more music. Then you came to me house.
Dave: That's it?
[Miles says nothing]
Dave: Well, I guess I'll just fill in the blanks later.
Miles: It's what all you writing motherfuckers do anyway, right?

...

Dave: Look, I understand where you're coming from with those guys upstairs. It's never enough, right? They suck you dry and they fuck you over.
[that line doesn't work...Miles ignores him]
Dave: Listen, listen, listen. Fuck the interview. Let's get right. I know what you need! Let me get you right! I know this kid. He gets it like...Whoosh! From the root. It's not stepped on and we can go right now. It's the best coke in the city.
Miles: You is a crazy white motherfucker, you know that?
Dave: Yeah, I know.
Miles: So, where's it at?
Dave: Columbia.
Miles: We just left Columbia, motherfucker.
Dave: The other one, motherfucker.

...

Junior: So what am I going to do, just walk up to him in the middle of this party and just start playing?
Harper: Who know who John Coltrane was before he was John Coltrane? A bar walker. He literally walked across the bar playing his horn, people throwing nickels at him. Then, Miles hears him play..."John Coltrane!" Well find you a little corner, you'll play and that will be it.
Junior [muttering]: He just look too much like he wanted to...
Harper: Junior, stop playing with your pussy. This is "take a shot" time. Let's go.

...

Miles: That's all Frances ever played at the house. Classical music. Chopin, Stravinsky...throw in some Ravel. I studied all them cats, man. Broke down their compositions. These revolutionaries. Innovators. Pushing back at that standard, classical bag. Chopin, it's all about improvisation. This shit, Bird and Diz was doing that on stage every night, on the fly. Didn't write it down. Shit just came out of them. I wanted to quit every night. You know, old people, they come up to me and they say, "why don't you play like you used to?" I say, "tell me how I used to". It takes a long time to be able to play like yourself. Man don't do nothing like he used to. The music don't move on, then it's dead music, you know. It's just dead.

...

Miles: Someday I'm gonna call me up on the phone, so when I answer, I can tell myself to shut up.

...

Miles: I want you to quite dancing, Frances.
Frances [startled]: What?
Miles: I want you to quit dancing.
Frances: You want me to quit West Side?
Miles: No. Quit dancing altogether. You're my wife now. Your place is with me. I know it will be a sacrifice.
Frances: A scrafice?
Miles: I'll take care of you for the rest of your life. You don't have to worry about nothing.
[she gets up and walks away]


Same old story: racism bad, sexism good. She gives up dancing.

Harper [with Miles holding a gun on him]: Oh, yeah, yeah. This is great. The junkie and the flunky.

...

Harper [pulling a gun out of a desk drawer]: Well, we're not going to let a bag of money just walk out the door, Walter.
[he cocks the gun and tosses it to Walter]
Harper: Go Bring me back that goddamned tape!!

...

Doorman: I'm sorry Mr. Miles, do you have a ticket?
Miles [pointing to his face]: You're looking at it.

...

Harper: You don't know what the word "lose" means, do you Miles?

...

Dave [listening to "the tape", Miles playing experimental organ]: When do you come in?
Miles: I'm in there.
Dave: I don't hear any trumpet.
Miles: I played organ.
Dave [incredulous]: The whole time?!

...

Dave: Is that it? I see. So...so you're just gonna get back in the hole again now? You're gonna do more of this? Isn't this where I came in? You in here doing all this...what? Nothing.

...

Miles [after Junior plays the trumpet accompanying the tape]: What was that?
Junior [pointing to the tape recorder]: It's that.
Miles: That ain't in there.
Junior: Yeah. Yes. Yes, it is.

...

Dave: Your playing, it really takes you on a journey.
Miles: Yeah, that's music. You know, something clicked.
Dave: Is there any way that you could put that, what you just played, into words?
Miles: You just did, man.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:45 am

Imagine if, out of the blue, someone popped up in your life and told you that she was your cousin. And in so doing disclosed a side of the family that you had not even known existed.

For starters, why on earth would this have been kept secret from you? And is this deep dark secret more on her side of the family or on your side?

Obviously, there are only so many "deep dark secrets" that this can be. And you have almost certainly come across it in another film. So, you can choose to spend time trying to spoil the movie by figuring it all out in advance or can allow the filmmaker to lead you to it.

Of course much of this will revolve around your frame of mind regarding "family". For some the family becomes the center of the universe. What you do or do not do is predicated almost entirely on whether it will hurt or help it. Here though both the love and the hate are on auto-pilot. An automatic reaction almost every time. Provided of course that you are in on the secret.

Still, for others, the family is either a source of pain and conflict or is something that, at some point in your life, you stopped giving a second thought to. Or [as with me] it all becomes a murky combination of both.

And then the part about incest. Sure, sleeping with your mommy or your daddy, your brother or your sister is almost universally frowned upon. But: How much further out does it go?

Certainly to cousins.

Look for Tawney from Rectify.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Automatic_Hate
trailer: https://youtu.be/W3NqUUG6geU


THE AUTOMATIC HATE [2015]
Written in part and directed by Justin Lerner

Davis: Can I help you?
Alexis: Hi. Do you know...you know who I am?
Davis: No.
Alexis: No idea at all?
Davis: Should I?
Alexis: Sorry. It's kinda weird. I-I'm not a crazy person. I'm...
Davis: Okay. Who are you?
Alexis: Can I have a hug first?
Davis [startled]: What?
Alexis: I'm sorry. I'm really exhausted and nervous, and I...I really...I need a hug.
[she rushes over and hugs him]
Alexis: Thank you. Thank you.
Davis: So?
Alexis: You're Davis Green. And I'm Alexis Green. And we're cousins.

...

Davis: No, you have the wrong person.
Alexis: No. No, your dad is Ronald Green. He's a developmental psychologist. Yeah?
Davis: Yeah. And he doesn't have any siblings.
Alexis: No, no. No, he does. He has an older brother, my dad.

...

Cassie [to Davis...ominously]: I have to tell you something...

...

Professor Ronald Green [to his class]: Human development....
[a woman brings out a baby]
Ronald: Ladies and gentlemen, this is a baby. One of the great mysteries of life. Who is she? What will she become? Will she be a painter? A head of state? A murderer? By the way she is looking at me right now, I'm guessing the last.
[the woman takes the baby and leaves the stage]
Ronald: And is it inevitable what she will become? Is it predetermined? Or is someone, something out there going to be transformative? Nature, nurture? That is the question. This class will bring us to a closer understanding that the question is bullshit. The answer is far more complex, subtle than any black or white conclusion. It is much more...gray.


That's my line too, isn't it?

Davis [holding out a painting to his Grandfather]: Is that my dad?
Grandfather: Yep. Your mother painted it.
Davis: And who's that?
Grandfather: That's Joshua.
Davis: What?
Grandfather: Why, that's Joshua.
Davis: Who's Joshua?
Grandfather [suddenly realizing he spilled the beans]: We do not talk about Joshua.
Daivds: Why not? Who is he?
Grandfather [becoming agitated]: No, no, no, no.
Davis: Easy. Okay. Okay, okay.
Grandfather [frantically]: Ronnie!
Davis: I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Grandpa.
Grandfather: Ronnie! Ronnie!
Davis: Okay, easy. It's okay.
Grandfather: Ronnie! No, no, no, no. Ronnie!

...

Davis [to his father]: Who is he?
[his father just stares out into space and says nothing]

...

Ronald: What did you say to him?
Davis: All I did was ask him to explain the painting. Do you want to? You have a brother?
Ronald: No, I don't. Not anymore.
Davis: What happened?
Ronald: I can't even begin to explain it, nor is it any of your goddamn business. There's a reason this has been kept from you. Leave it alone! You don't know what you're about to do. Trust me.

...

Davis [leaving a message on the phone]: Hey, Cass, it's me. I'm in a tiny town called Dustin, New York, driving to my uncle's farm. That girl who came to visit me, Alexis...She wasn't lying. She's my fucking cousin.

...

Alexis: Davis Green, this is Amanda Green and this is Annie Green. What? Are you mad I didn't tell you about them before?
Davis: No. This is fuckin' awesome.

...

Davis: So, do you guys have any idea what happened?
Annie: You mean with our dads?
Davis: Yeah.
Amanda: Alexis tried to bring it up once, but...
Alexis: Yeah, that didn't go too well. We got threatened. So we dropped it. Dad said that if we tried to make contact with you or your dad, then...
Davis: Then what?
Amanda: Bad things.

...

Davis: So, how did you find me?
Alexis: Well, I...I saw your dad in one of my psych textbooks, and then, I googled him, and I saw that you went to Yale, and then I...Well, I found your restaurant online, and so...
Amanda: She is a stalker.

...

Joshua: I'm stuck out here in the woods with four women. First time a guy's been around in a while.
Davis [as "Jonathan]: I don't know how much help I would be.
Joshua: Well, you're fucking my daughter. The least you can do is keep me some company while I kill a pig.

...

Davis [as "Jonathan]: Just so you know, sir, I would never even think about sleeping with your daughter.
Joshua: Now, that sounds like an insult.
Davis: No. I mean, I would. I'm just not.


But then...

Davis: What now? We just go in there and zap one?
Joshua: I'll tell you what now. Stop fucking with me! He send you here to spy on me?
Davis: Who?
Joshua: Don't insult my intelligence, man. I know you're my brother's son.
Davis: Actually, your daughters said I look a bit like you when you were younger.
Joshua: I don't see it.

...

Davis: So did you go to college?
Joshua: Yeah. Why do you ask?
Davis: Just curious if maybe you'd also studied psychology.
Joshua: I studied philosophy.
Davis: Did you go to Yale too?
Joshua: No way. Fuck that place. I went to Harvard.

...

Davis: So, what now?
Joshua: Nothing. Have a good life.
Davis: That's it? You don't want to see him?
Joshua: Nope.
Davis: Why not?
Joshua: Plenty of reasons.
Davis: Give me one.
Joshua: Because he doesn't want to see me.
Davis: You guys are brothers. What could have possibly happened?
Joshua: Why the fuck do you think I'd tell you that? What we have between us, it's unresolvable.
Davis: If I knew what happened, would I hate you?
Joshua: It was nice to meet you, Davis.

...

Alexis: Davis, wait, please.
Davis: Your dad asked me to leave.
Alexis: So what? I have to do this all by myself?
Davis: Do what?
Alexis: Find a way to get our families back together.
Davis: That's what you want to do?

...

Alexis: Promise me something else: That if you do leave now, it's not because you're afraid of what's going on.
Davis: I'm not afraid of what's going on.
Alexis: Not with our dads. With us.

...

Davis [to Alexis]: What is this place?

...

Davis: What's up here?
Alexis: I have no idea.

...

Davis [to Alexis]: Could this all be over a girl?

...

Alexis [to her sisters and Cassie and Davis]: We're going to the funeral.

...

Joshua: No. Absolutely not. If they wanted me there, I'd have gotten a call.
Amanda: Yeah, but he's your dad too.
Joshua: I am not going to his house.
Cassie: You wouldn't have to go to Ronald's, if that makes a difference. They're burying him at the family cabin in the mountains tonight.

...

Davis: He's down there?
Joshua: Yeah.
Davis: How'd you pull that off?
Joshua: It's easy to despise someone from a distance. Put them across a table, though, most men won't pursue a conflict if they can help it. Your dad's a great example.
Davis: Of what?
Joshua: A coward.

...

Joshua: So, who's gonna lose it tonight?
Ronald: You are.
Joshua: No, not me.
Amanda: What are you guys talking about?
Joshua [looking over at Ronald]: May I?

...

Ronald: We threw the biggest party of the summer. And we probably drank a little bit more than we should've. So in the morning, the vomit was either red or white. And then we'd know whose it was.
Anne: So...what color was it?
Ronald: It was pink.

...

Joshua [staring at Rebecca's bracelet on her wrist[: Alexis, where did you get that?
Alexis: You know where I got it.
Ronald: May I see that, please?
Joshua: Sweetie, take that off and hand it to me now. NOW!!
Ronald: What else have ya got, Josh?
Joshua: I didn't think you'd want any of her stuff. At the end, you wanted nothing to do with Rebecca.
Ronald: Don't you dare mention her name. And you shouldn't assume anything.
Joshua: Let's see if I'm in the will, then maybe we can negotiate.
Ronald: That's the reason why you're here.
Joshua: Well, what if it is? What are you gonna do, disown me again?

...

Davis: Alexis, give the bracelet to me. Let's bring it upstairs, then we can all figure out what we want to do with it.
Cassie: Please...
Alexis: Shut up, Cassie! This is not your family. You need to fucking leave!
Cassie: Why? So you can have your cousin all to yourself?

...

Ronald: There's something wrong with you, Josh. You're sick. And you passed it along to your kids.
Joshua: Don't you dare!
Ronald: You fucking pervert! You took advantage of her, Josh. You took advantage of her. You killed Rebecca and you know goddamn well that you did!


Then all hell breaks loose. The past and the present here could not possibly be more combustible.

Alexis: Mind your business, you jealous cunt!
Cassie: Why the fuck should I be jealous of you?
Alexis: Because Davis hasn't been able to keep his eyes off me since he got here. And I think he's happy you had that abortion so that he doesn't have to be stuck with you. And in case you haven't realized, your boyfriend and I...
[Davis punches her in the face and she's knocked out cold]

...

Davis: How's your face?
Joshua: We should see your dad before we declare a winner.

...

Davis: So are you a murderer, Josh?
Joshua: If I am, then your dad is too.
Davis: What did you do?

...

Joshua: You know, you and I are more alike than you might think.
Davis: How's that?
Joshua: Well, your dad's a man of careful words and thoughts. But when I saw you punch Alexis, it clicked.
Davis: I don't follow.
Joshua: If you'd thought about it, you would've never done it. But you did. There are lots of things that are out of our control, Davis. Almost everything is, actually.
Davis: So you stole his girl? This... Rebecca. And he never forgave you.
Joshua: Rebecca was our sister.


I didn't see that coming.

Joshua [to Davis]: Your dad found out about us and he told the entire family. They shunned us and it ruined her life. He shamed her into killing herself.
[Davis seems stunned]
Joshua: Come on, Davis. From what we heard last night, are you in any place to judge? I know how you feel about her. Your dad will never forgive you for it. But I will.

...

Davis: I guess I thought that getting our families together would've been a good thing.
Ronald: And what do you think now?
Davis: I think they're assholes.

...

Davis: Are you sure you want me to do this? And if I do, that's it? Game on? You promise? Even if you don't like some of what you hear?
Cassie: I told you It's not about whether I like the answers. It's that I get to know them. I get to know everything from now on. Are you pussying out?
Davis: No.
Cassie: Okay. We'll start easy.

...

Cassie: Are you sexually attracted to her?
[Davis fidgets]
Cassie: One lie, this game is done. Are you sexually attracted to your cousin?
Davis: Yes.
Cassie: Have you thought about what it would be like to sleep with her?
[he nods]
Cassie: A lot? Okay. That one stung a bit. Is it more than physical attraction?
Davis: Maybe? I guess so, yeah.
Cassie: Do you think you'd make a good couple?
Davis: No.
Cassie: Given the chance, if there were no consequences, would you do anything with her?
Davis: At one point I guess so, yeah. But now, no. No way.
Cassie: Are you sure you want to be with me?
Davis: Yes.
Cassie: You have no doubts?
Davis: No.
Cassie: Okay. Last question. Did you actually do anything at all with her?
Davis: No. No. Nothing.
Cassie [after a long, long pause]: Okay. Unpack your shit.


Of course we know better, don't we?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:36 am

This is a film exploring something that has never actually happened; something that [in our lifetime] is not likely to happen; but something that [in our lifetime] certainly could happen.

That's why the film is set in "the near future".

Imagine losing power. At first you're figuring the usual causes. In a few hours [or at most a few days in the case of a big storm] everything will be back up and running. Only that isn't what happens at all. Not for these folks. And then it begins to dawn on them that there is little or no hope of it being turned back on anytime soon.

What caused it? How extensive is it? Across the state? Across the nation? Across the globe? That part isn't really explored at all. The focus is more on two sisters actually enduring the calamity itself.

At least these folks live farther away from the Big City and The Suburbs. Still, their lives are no less intertwined in all of the things that revolve entirely around having the power necessary to make them...work. On the other hand, they live far, far, far from town. More or less isolated from everyone. And that can mean one of two things: less folks to harm them, less folks to help them.

A whole new social, political and economic dynamic. A whole new way to think about survival. A whole new "I". Especially at the juncture where being inconvenienced starts to topple over into survival itself.

As for the ending, it doesn't make much sense to me. Especially with the baby. Not that there appeared to be many other alternatives.

Here is list of major power outages that have already occurred: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... er_outages

Some predict that a catastrophic CME will be the cause of The Big One: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_mass_ejection

IMDb

Ellen Page was inspired to make the film after coming across the book written by Jean Hegland while browsing through a small store in her native Halifax. It was suggested to her by the woman working there and after she read it, she decided to produce a movie-version of the story.

Evan Rachel Wood broke the capillaries around her eyes while filming an intensely emotional scene.

The pig butchering scene was real. Ellen Page learned the process specifically to include in this film. She's quoted explaining how it was difficult and upsetting.


at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Forest
trailer: https://youtu.be/_TRSvK-Omwc


INTO THE FOREST [2015]
Written and directed by Patricia Rozema

Reporter [on TV]: We interrupt tonight's programming to report a massive power outage up and down the west coast.

...

Nell: What about the solar? When does that inverter come in?
Robert [dad]: Four weeks ago. I'll ask again next time I'm in town.
Nell: My SATs are on Thursday! I need to study.
Robert: Ah, there is an ancient technology, you may have heard of it. It's called "books".

...

Reporters [on the radio]: We think it happened at the power plant where there was a problem. The emergency systems took over and essentially shut the plant down. That then triggered shut-downs across the power grid, and we are hearing that that grid didn't have the capacity to deal with that problem, so it shut itself down and that was sort of the link being broken. We still are waiting to hear from officials to find out what was the exact cause... There are many rumors, some suggest a terrorist targeting our power supply... It seems at least 300 million people are now without power....No subways, elevators, airports...

...

Title card: Ten days without power

...

Stan [store owner with a rifle in his hand]: Whoa. Not so fast. Sorry I gotta ask you this... You got money, yeah?
Robert: Yes sir, I do, sir.
Stan: And your big box membership card is all paid up to date?
Robert: Of course. I mean, who could refuse the opportunity to pay for the right to shop.
Stan: Yeah. Well, we can't be too careful. A crisis like this doesn't always bring out the best side of people.
Robert: It reveals character, you're right there.
Stan: Yes, it reveals character. I tell you, you know? It's people wanting something for nothing is what got us into this mess in the first place.
Robert: I'm with you there, Stan.

...

Robert [after an accident with the power saw]: Girls, girls, girls. I'm leaking, I'm leaking. Take care of each other.
Nell: Shut up, dad!
Eva: Dad, you're gonna be okay. You're gonna be fine. You're gonna be fine. You're gonna be fine.
Robert: Love each other...
Nell: You're gonna be fine!


Dad dies.

Title card: Two months without power

...

Eva: I want to fill the generator. Right now, before it gets too dark and we spill some.
Nell: We can't. We have to save it for the Jeep.
Eva: There's, like, five gallons in here. We only need two to get to town.
Nell: Yeah, and two to get back.
Eva: Okay, so four. That leaves one for right now.
Nell: I'm sorry. We... We have to save it for an emergency.
Eva: I need it.
Nell: You don't need it. Come on, this is our life insurance.
Eva: Our life insurance.
Nell: Yeah.
Eva: Ours. Half mine.

...

Eva [to Nell]: Get dad's gun.

...

Nell: What's happening in town?
Eli: People are getting sick. There's no water filtration. I thought you'd died when you stopped coming to town.
Nell: No. We ran out of gas.
Eli: Everyone's run out of gas. There's no gas, there's no electricity, there's no transportation, there's no phones, there's no Internet. It's the wild fucking west out there.

...

Eva: We're almost out of toothpaste.
Nell: I know.
Eva: So how long is he gonna stay?
Nell: I don't know.
Eva: 'Cause he's eating our food and we hardly have any left.

...

Eli: Things are starting up again back east, Nellie. They've got electricity there and people have jobs. The phones are working. Food in the stores. No looting.
Nell: What?
Eli: I want you to go with me, Nelly.
Nell: Why didn't you tell us this sooner?
Eli: Well, I wanted to see who you were first.
Nell: What do you mean "who you were"?
Eli: If you were the one.

...

Eva: You're going to walk to Boston? How long is that gonna take?
Eli: Eight, eight and a half months.
Eva: So into the winter? What if you don't make it that far?
Eli: Then we'll hole up somewhere.
Eva: Where? Who's going to take in an extra half-dozen starving people for the winter?
Eli: We'll make ends meet, Joe's got a rifle. If you guys come, there's another gun, too. We'll work the land. We'll hunt. We'll make it work.
Eva: You know how to hunt?
Eli: Sure, why not? I'm a fast learner.
Eva: Boston has something we don't?
Eli: Yeah, power. Food. Jobs.
Eva: It's just another rumor!

...

Title card: Six months without power

...

Nell [coming upon Eva who was just raped by Stan]: Eva! Eva! Eva! Eva! What happened?! What happened?!
[she picks up the axe as Stan drives away in the jeep]
Nell: I will fucking kill you! I will fucking kill you!

...

Title card: eight months withour power

...

Nell: Eva, what? What?
Eva [distraught, trembling]: I just get so scared. I can't stop it. It just feels like these black waves, and I... I swim up to the surface, and I...I think I'll do okay and I can...I can fight this. And then another black wave comes and I'm just drowning...

...

Eva: There's a baby coming.
Nell: Yeah, I was afraid of that. It's okay. It's okay, we'll figure it out. Right?
Eva: Figure what out?
Nell: Surely you're not against stopping an unwanted pregnancy.
Eva: No, I don't think any baby should be unwanted.
Nell: Well, there might be a safe way to...
Eva: I want it. I don't think I can lose anything else, Nell.
Nell: Eva, you were raped.
Eva: That has nothing to do with it.
Nell: Yeah, it's his kid.
Eva: I don't think the kid is responsible for the parents' actions. Anyway, how could this baby even be mine?
Nell: What does that mean?
Eva: It's its own person.

...

Title card: fifteen months without power

...

Eva: B12. B12 is found in animal and dairy products.

...

Eva: We can't stay here.
Nell: What?
Eva: The house is filled with black mold. It's not safe for the baby.

...

Eva: I want to burn the house down.
Nell: What the fuck?!
Eva: Sooner or later someone is gonna come looking for us, right? If we leave the house here, someone can move in, but if we burn it down, it'll look like we died in the fire. Look at this place! It's toxic, it's rotting. We're never gonna fix that roof....Alright, how long have human beings been around?
Nell: What?
Eva: Seriously... How long have human beings been around on earth?
Nell: 100... 200,000 years. Right?
Eva: How long have we had electricity?
Nell: ...140?
Eva: Right. You see what I'm saying? All this.
Nell: This is all we have.
Eva: We have each other. We have plenty of food. We know how to get more. It's just not safe here anymore. We will be okay, Nellie. It's the right thing to do.

...


Eva [handing her the torch]: You wanna be the one to do it?
Nell: Yeah.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:59 am

From the director of Russian Ark above. So it shouldn't surprise anyone that much of it unfolds in a museum. This time the Louvre. Though not in one continuous take.

And it is the Louvre when France was under the Nazi occupation. Though it does frequently switch back and forth between the present and the past.

By and large, this is the world of art at the intersection of aesthetics and political power. Art and war. The part that comes from within; but only as this is necessarily shaped and molded over the course of actual human interactions over the course of actual human history.

And here who is really to say where one ends and the other begins? And though the Nazis are the threat here, we are reminded that much of what is contained in the Louvre was acquired by Napoleon Bonaparte as a result of his own imperialist conquests.

Art, like morality, can be a slippery slope. But almost everyone agrees that the Louvre is in fact the epicenter of Western Art, of Western culture. It's value is far, far, far beyond calculating.

In any event, unless you are a history buff and are familiar with the events that unfold in this "quasi-documentary" account of the Louvre, much of it may will go over your head. As much of it did mine. But watching the film is really more in the way of an "experience". It's all in the editing. It doesn't have to make sense to everyone. Or to anyone. Any more than art does.

IMDb

During production, this film was often rumored to be shot in a single take, making it an ideal sequel to Aleksandr Sokurov's previous 'museum film', Russian Ark (2002). Eventually, a more traditional editing technique was chosen by Sokurov to tell the story.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francofonia
trailer: https://youtu.be/yGF7vZALBQU


FRANCOPHONIA [2015]
Written and directed by Aleksandr Sokurov

Sokurov [voiceover looking at a man in a photograph]: Why is he looking at me like that? As if he knew what was waiting us. Now he'll tell us. Who will if not him?

...

Sokurov: [voiceover with a photograph of Anton Chekhov on his deathbed]: He's fallen asleep, too. In the hardest period. Mr. Chekhov! Anton Pavovich! Mr. Chekhov wake up! It's the dawn of the 20th century. Who can I turn to? Who is there? A-ha, there are the people....So that's how the 20th century started. The fathers fell asleep.

...

Sokurov [voiceover as a woman/ghost dances in the Louvre]: My dear ghost, tell us what it is that awaits us all?
Woman: Freedom. Equality. Brotherhood.
Sokurov: Freedom. Equality. Brotherhood. My dear Marianne, I'm not in the mood for humor.

...

Sokurov [voiceover as we watch a storm rage at sea]: Elemental forces of the sea and of history are those without sense or pity. Let it live its own life beside us. Why do we need to know this elementa force? After all, we have our cities, our skies, our warm and cozy apartments. Life, beauty...a people surrounded by an ocean, while a person has his own raging occean within.

...

Sokurov: Who would we be without museums? It sometimes seems museums don't care what happens around them as long as they are left in peace. Museums can also conceal the improper behavior of power...and of people.


If only from a point of view.

Sokurov [voiceover]: I wonder what would have become of European culture if portraiture had not emerged? For some reason, Europeans developed the wish, the necessity, of painting people, faces. Why is the study so important to Europeans, while other people, such as the Muslims, don't have it at all? Who would I have been, had I never known or seen the eyes of those who lived before me?

...

Franz Wolff-Metternich [to Jacques Jaujard]: Our mission is to preserve art collections, museums and historic monuments in France and Europe.

...

Sokurov [voiceover over scenes of war's devastation]: WWI was fought family by family and was thus particularly cruel and insane. It left long-lasing evil recollections in its wake. Cities, churches, monuments, cultures were crushed. People were murdered and tortured.

...

Sokurov [voiceover recounting the history of the Vichy French during WWII]: The Vichy French, who'd been rejecting distant Russian Bolshevism, overlooked neighboring Nazism. Petain, reserved, cold and undistinguished of birth, believes in the possibility and necessity of partnership with Hitler. And sees in it France's salvation. And here we have his government, his cabinet. They are to support the occupying forces, collect the taxes, and organize the French workforce to replenish Germany's resources. This same government will head museums and cultural institutions throughout all of France.


Why was this road taken?

Sokurov [voiceover]: For peace. It's simply for peace. For calm. Peace can always be bought. The grand war fell silent in France. The French soldiers are returning home. Paris. Paris. Paris. Hundreds of museums, theatres, galleries, universities, sciences, crafts, workers, engineeers, press and customs. Would you give it all up for the sake of principles, political convictions, slogans, and start a full-fledged war thoughout France and in Paris? Paris the "open city" means Paris without bombardments and without battles.

...

Napoleon: Of course it was I who brought all this here. All these sculptures are from my campaigns when I waged war. Everything here was brought back by me. Everything. Everything here. Why else would I have gone to war? For what? Why? For this, for art. That's it. I went to war for art. I had excellect advisers when it came to taking it or leaving it behind. The whole universe defines a piece. And war alone decides where it will end up.

...

Franz Wolff-Metternich [over pictures of the Louvre's treasures being evacuted]: All museums must prepare for war.

...

Jacques Jaujard: I'm a civil servant of the French Administration, one whose government allies itself to the enemy. Do I know why I am working for this government? Yes, I do.

...

Sokurov [voiceover]: We do have such extraordinary writers, philosophers. Our artists are such visionaries who dearly love humans. And in the Louvre, everything is about how people struggled, loved, killed ,repented, lied and cried.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:06 am

Many of the best flims are often those that confront us with this: What would you do?

To, for example, survive.

And the context here is particularly excruciating. You are a Jew. And you are assigned the task in the Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp of facilitating the Nazis in exterminating your own people. Of being a member of the Sonderkommando.

Thus you are confronted with one of the most agonizing conundrums the human mind can endure: What price life?

Your own, in other words.

What are you willing to do to sustain your own existence? Are there behaviors so inherently evil that all virtuous men and women are obligated to draw the line and refuse?

Of course in part this will revolve around your own personal opinions regarding dying, death and what comes after them. Clearly, if you do not believe in God or Salvation then the life that you have is all there is. So sustaining it will necessarily become the priority for most.

Another important theme here is how, in the midst of a historical context horrific beyond what many were even able to imagine, everything can often come down [for one man] to accomplishing a single task that manages to thwart the enemy. Here it comes down to a man, unable to save the life of his son, intent on "salvaging the body and finding a rabbi to bury it." But: In the context of the Holocaust what can this possibly mean? Where does one even begin to fit it in?

But then each of us one by one in our own way must do what we can.

And yet we know that in this case it is not to save the boy's life. The boy is already dead. It is all only to bury him. So, for some of us what unfolds becomes more or less unimaginable. And he puts his own life and the lives of other prisoners at risk.

What then to make of Saul? What to make of what he does? What would you do? And how does one even begin to construct moral equations in a context like this?

This was an acclaimed film. It won the Academy Award for Best Foreign Film, won the Grand Prix at Cannes and garnered a 96% fresh rating at RT.

IMDb

During the preparation, director László Nemes, cinematographer Mátyás Erdély and production designer László Rajk made a pledge to stick to certain rules, or a "dogma", which included:

The film cannot look beautiful. The film cannot look appealing. We cannot make a horror film. Staying with Saul means not going beyond his own field of vision, hearing, or presence. The camera is his companion, it stays with him throughout this hell.

Dario Gabbai, the last known survivor of the Sonderkommandos, saw the film and praised it. He lives in Los Angeles, California, and has done since 1951.

In February 2016, the New Yorker reported that before, during, and after this movie's filming, its star, Géza Röhrig, was employed as a shomer in a funeral home in Manhattan. In Jewish funereal ritual, a shomer is a person who sits with a body so that it is not left alone before a funeral; Röhrig's job also included participating in the ritual washing of the bodies before burial. The article said that when Röhrig started this job (in 2001), his salary was $10.00 an hour.

The film's historical consultant Dr. Zoltán Vági wrote that Hungary is still in denial about the former alliance and collaboration with Nazi Germany. Between 15 May and 9 July 1944, approximately 437,000 Hungarian citizens of Jewish ethnicity were deported with 147 trains, mainly to the extermination camp Auschwitz-Birkenau. The majority of them were unfit for slave labor: Elderly and disabled people, women and more than 100,000 children were killed in gas chambers immediately after arriving, while their possessions (incl. gold teeth) were stolen by the Germans. Many more died in the camp over the next few months. The deportation was mainly organized and executed by the Hungarian authorities themselves. Hungary set a European 'record' by deporting 437,000 Jews to certain death within only eight weeks. The Hungarian gendarmes' devotion to this cause surprised even Nazi organizer Adolf Eichmann, who only needed to supervise the operation with 20 officers and a staff of 100, including drivers and cooks.

According to Nemes, the character Saul is "not a religious person, and actually makes mistakes about what it means to bury in the Jewish way. You don't need a rabbi, you need ten people saying the Kaddish, so he never gets that right."

The film recreates in one sequence the secretive taking of the "Sonderkommando photographs," the only photographs of the extermination process in Auschwitz-Birkenau that still exist. The photographs can be found online.

Although in early versions of the screenplay it was clearer that the body Saul tries to give a proper burial was actually his son, it became more ambiguous through the course of rewrites. Among those who do not believe it was is Géza Röhrig, who played Saul.


at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_Saul
trailer: https://youtu.be/sWQTfbXLTHQ


SON OF SAUL [Saul Fia] 2015
Written in part and directed by László Nemes

Title card: Sonderkommando: German word. Term used in the concentration camps to designate prisoners special status. Also called "secret carriers" (Geheimnistrger). The members of a Sonderkommando are separated from the rest of the camp. They are killed after a few months of work.

...

German soldier [as hundreds of naked people are being paraded into the gas chambers]: We need people like you in the workshops. You will work and you will be well paid. After showering and soup, come directly to me. We need nurses. We need artisans of all trades. Joiners, carpenters, masons, concrete workers, mechanics, locksmiths, electricians. When you're ready, come find me.

...

Saul: Do not cut open that boy. Leave the body as it is.
Doctor: It's one of yours? Where do you come from?
Saul: Ungvr.
Doctor: I am a prisoner, like you. You'll have five minutes with him tonight. But in the end, he will burn with the others.

...

Saul: Rabbi...Bury someone.
Rabbi: Bury? The prayer is enough.
Saul: I have the body. Help me!
Rabbi: Get rid of it. You know the Kaddish? I'll say his name. We can do nothing more.
Saul: Not enough!

...

Saul: I need your help. I need another rabbi.
Prisoner: You? Why you need a rabbi? A rabbi will not save you from fear.

...

Abraham [as Saul nears them]: He's with us. They're already making a list for us.
Elie: Who told you that?
Abraham: My man in the office.
Elie: Let's take those pictures first.
Abraham: What pictures, Elie? We have no time for this. It's our turn.
Elie: You think you can blow this whole thing up?
Abraham: And your pictures will bring an army here to free us?

...

Saul: The "pieces" from the autopsy room. Where are they?
Prisoner: You're day shift! Get lost!

...

Saul [yanking at the doctor]: The boy! Where is the boy?!
Doctor: The boy is safe. I had to hide him from the doctors.
Saul: Can't you exchange him for someone else?
Doctor: No. I have to autopsy it. Document it.

...

Prisoner: What are you carrying?
[Saul hasthe body of his son covered in canvas flung over his shoulder]
Prisoner: Take it back. You play with our lives.
Saul: I'll show the Germans where you bury your writings about the camp!


So: Is he doing the right thing?

Saul: You did not care much for me before.
Abraham: I still don't.

...

Oberscharfuhrer Voss: Oberkapo.
Oberkapo: Yes sir, Oberscharfuhrer.
Oberscharfuhrer: I want a list of 70 names. Men you don't need.


We know what that means.

Saul: Where are they going?
Abraham: To the pits. The ovens must be full.

...

Abraham: Where have you been all night?
Saul: I was taken to the pits.
Abraham: The package? The package sent by the women?
[Saul searches his pockets]
Abraham: The powder! How will we blow up this thing now?!

...

Abraham: Who is this boy?
Saul: My son.
Abraham: But you have no son.
Saul: I do. I have to bury him.
Abraham: You don't need a rabbi for that.

...

Abraham: We will die because of you two.
Saul: We are already dead. I have to take care of my son. It is not from my wife.
Abraham: When is the last time you have seen him?
[Saul says nothing]
Abraham: You have no son.

...

Doctor [to Saul]: Find me a boy. Same age, same hair.

...

Abraham: You failed the living for the dead.

...

Saul [to the rabbi after he has escaped the camp in the chaos of the rebellion]: Say Kaddish. Please, the prayer!


And all for naught.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:35 am

For lack of a rope...?

Well, depending of course on the context. Here the rope is needed not to win or lose a war but to retrieve a corpse from a well. The corpse being but one of thousands upon thousands of casualties in this particular conflict: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars

And this conflagration was particularly complex. At least from the perspective of American foreign policy. It didn't have much to do with securing cheap labor or natural resources or markets. Or, rather, less to do with that than, say, ethnic cleansing. There were the Serbs, the Croats and the Albanians. Some Christian, some Muslim. Some nationalists, some separatists.

But once all Yugoslavians. No doubt the origins of the conflict are buried deep in the history of the Balkins: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkans#The_Balkans

Having to do with, among other things, ethnicity, God and [of course] power.

And talk about conflicting goods. You tell me who were the good guys and bad guys. Here in America the bad guys were generally thought to be the Serbs. But at the time I knew a woman at work who was a Serb. And her rendition of things was nothing at all like the "general consensus". In any event there were lots and lots of objectivists on both all sides of this particular hell on earth.

And then there was this part: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars#War_crimes

The film also explores the different reactions to the horrors of war. Often differentiated by gender. Sophie reacts to the brutality by emotionally exposing her own intolerance to it. Mambru on the other hand is more cynical, detached. We do what we can to minimize the pain and suffering but you don't let it overwhelm you. It is what it is. You live in the moment.

Also, one of factors pointed to in films like this is humor. How much is allowed? How dark must it be?

IMDb

After the public screening of the film during the Quinzaine des Réalisateurs 2015 (director's fortnight) at Cannes Festival, on the 16th of May 2015, the director and actors present (Benicio Del Toro, Melanie Thierry) received a ten minutes standing ovation.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Perfect_Day_(2015_film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/hv3FTkOXWzg


A PERFECT DAY [2015]
Written in part and directed by Fernando León de Aranoa

Mambrú [of the corpse tied to a rope in the well]: Come on stinky, hang in there. You can make it.
[the rope breaks]
Mambrú: Fat fuck.

...

Mambru: He didn't go hungry in the war.
Damir: It might be his glands. They're called glands, right? Thyroid does not produce enough hormones so body does not assimilate fat. Glands. My brother told me that.
Mambru: Yeah, your brother is a doctor?
Damir: No, a fatso.

...

Mambru: What are they laughing at?
Damir: He's just saying funny things, you know.
Mambru: Yeah, I can tell that.
Damir: Ah, it's normal here. This area is famous for that. Yoghurt and sense of humor.

...

B: Mr. Cow. Is it to the left or to the right?
Sophie: You're asking the cow?
B: Let's go.
Sophie: Are we turning around?
B: RPGs. It's all here in my logbook.
Sophie: What are you doing?
B: I'm looking it up.
Sophie: Mining protocol says to turn around.
B [sarcastically]: Mining protocol. Don't believe everything you read in mining protocol. They write that stuff in Geneva. They've never seen a mine in their lives in Geneva. Cows, yes, plenty of cows but none with mines around 'em.


Guess what he does?

Sophie [looking down at the corpse]: He's gigantic. Is he from the village?
Mambru: No. They brought this guy from somewhere else.
Sophie: I thought they do it with animals.
Mambru: Not in war. Nobody throws an animal in a well. Wasted food.

...

Sophie: For how long has he been in the well?
B: 12 hours. 10, maybe. So what's our expert say?
Sophie: We have to get it out and clean the well. In 24 hours, it won't matter what we pour in there. We'll have to seal it.
B: We'll get the blue helmets to help. At least this one's in one piece. They usually chop it up, you know. It speeds up the decay. It's disgusting, but there's a good side to it. It...it gets easier to get 'em out of there you know, when they're, when they're in chunks.

...

Sophie [reading from a phamplet]: "International humanitarian law as established by the Geneva convention prohibits article 55 using environmental modification techniques with hostile aims in order to protect the health of the population during wartime."
U.N. Official: I appreciate the reminder, Ms. Richard but that article, as you correctly stated refers only to international armed conflicts.
Sophie: Well, that's true, sir but neither of us has a Bosnian accent.
U.N. Official: Our passports do not make this an international conflict despite your insistence. Your request is duly noted but leave it to the military to establish priorities during wartime.


Guess what she tells him? That the corpse in the well is mined. Big mistake.

Sophie: What about the fat guy?
Mambru: Fat guy stays, we leave.
Sophie: But there will be an epidemic.
Mambru: Maybe. But with any luck, I'll be gone by then.
Sophie: Okay, beautiful.
Mambru: Not our problem anymore. They said not to touch it.

...

Sophie: Three what?
Mambru: Nothing.


Three out of three not three out of ten.

Mambru: Well...You look different from the last time I saw you.
Katya: Sure, I'm dressed.
Mambru: That's right. You are dressed. But, uh...your hair was different.
Katya: My head is what was different.

...

Damir: Uh, he asked me why we need the rope for, so I explained him. And he told me that if somebody throws man in a well he probably was no Saint and it's better to leave him there. Never touch dead people, he says.
B [grabs some rope and brings it to the shop keeper]: How much? How much? Money. How much?
Damir: Uh, he says that, uh they need rope for hangings.
B: He's... he's kidding, right?
Damir: I don't know, uh.. Sense of humor is bit different in this area.


Bottom line: no rope. Later in the car...

Damir: Difficult to know. Many problems here. Maybe they're enemies and they don't want you to remove body from well. Or maybe they put it there.
B: You think?
Damir: Could be. You know, things are complicated. Whatever you think... It's possible here. Or maybe you are foreigner and that's why they don't sell you rope. Many people hate foreigners because they come with war. You remind them that everything is bad here. You know, the bombs, the deaths and so they hate you for that.

...

B: What's that sign saying?
Damir: "UN convoy, stay..
[B floors the accelerator]
Damir: ...back."
B: You see the size of that escort? Military target. They're taking meat to the refugees. You might as well paint a bull's-eye on your chest. The further away you get from these guys, the better.

...

Katya: Aren't we going back to the base?
Mambru: Yeah, but first we're gonna get our friend out of the well.
Katya: You're not allowed.
Mabru: Says who?
Katya: The United Nations. They said you can't do it.
Mambru: I don't take orders from them. I'm not wearing a helmet.
Katya: It was just explained to you by an official. Who do we need to get for you to understand?- Butros-ghali?
Mambru: Yeah. Butros butros-ghali. I want him to come here and explain to me why the hell we can't get the body out of that well.

...

B: Welcome to Konopac, the Rope Capital of the World. Population: 5. I'm B, I'll be your tour guide this afternoon and I'm pleased to be with you on this lovely day.

...

B [seeing Katya for the first time]: Shit, where did you get her? Models Without Borders?

...

Mambru: That's the rope? Our rope?
Nikola: Nikola no lie.
Mambru: Nikola no lie, but Nikola no say the rope was tied to a big snarling dog either.
Nikola: I say I take you to rope and rope is there.
B: Kid is right. The rope is there. And it's perfect.

...

Mambru: Wait, Sophie. Don't turn around.
Sophie: What?
Mambru: Look at me. Look at me. Don't turn around. It's okay.
Sophie: What...
Mambru: Look at me. Come here. Come here. Come here. Come here..
[she looks around]
Mambru: Don't! Don't! Don't!

...

B: Cow?
Mambru: Cow.

...

Mambru [throwing Katya's pen near the cow]: Go get it. If you don't blow up we keep driving.

...

Mambru: How are you doing?
Sophie: I can't stop thinking about them. The 3 of them. I imagine them together in that house.
Mambru: Forget them. They're gone.
Sophie: What are we going to do?
Mambru: Nothing. We keep going. Don't think about it. You'll end up going home. Forget what's happened or what's gonna happen. Focus on what's happening now. The rest doesn't exist here. Maybe back home...but not here.

...

Mambrú: B, I have a girlfriend.
B [of Katya]: She's hot. You had a thing with her before. It's a relapse. It's like smoking again. Totally understandable. And what if she writes a terrible report about us, we gotta go home. What then? Who helps the people, then? Uh? Have you ever think about that? No. You're selfish. You gotta fuck her. For the Bosnian people. Make a sacrifice. For the humanitarian cause. She won't say no. Hey, hey! I'm serious.

...

B: Mambru, wake up. Wake up. Wake up. Mambru, follow the granny. Follow the granny. Trust me, follow the granny.

...

B: You know, maybe I should be moving along somewhere. Maybe Katya was right. I should find a wife and have 2 and half kids. Settle down.
Mambru: Fuck all that. This is your home. I mean....wherever people need your help, B. That's your family. The family that waits for you. Misses you. How many people can say they are missed by people they've never met before, huh? Not many.
B: Not many.


Then the sheer absurdity of it all...

U.N. Official: You must abandon the extraction of that corpse immediately. It could be mined.
Sophie: But it's not.
Mambru: That's a mistake. We've searched that well inside out. There are no explosives in there. It's all clear.
U.N. Official: Well, you may not be aware of it, sir, but this is a red zone. There's been some changes of jurisdiction and we handed everything over to the local authorities. So mined or not, removing that dead body is illegal.
Sophie: I can't believe this. It's a basic sanitary service. I mean, with all due respect, sir it wouldn't matter if it were a pig.
U.N. Official: Abandon the extraction immediately. You need a judge present to do what you're doing.
Mmabru: A judge?
U.N. Official: Yes, a judge. The area is now under civil jurisdiction. It's all here in the peace agreements. We must all respect procedure.
[they cut the rope and back down into the well the "fat fuck" goes]
Sophie: Can't you make an exception? The people here need water.
U.N. Official: You might be generating a conflict.
Sophie: But there already is a conflict here. If we do not clean the water, we won't need 1 judge we'll need 20 judges.
U.N. Official: We cannot make any exceptions, ma'am. It's all written in the peace agreements and it must be respected by all parties in conflict. It's very simple. You cannot touch dead bodies.
Sophie: You do nothing here! United Nothing! You're nothing!
U.N. Official: I understand your reasoning but there's nothing else we can do. We understand that your work is very important here. Remember, we are on the same side.

...

Mambru: I thought you wanted that ball.
Nikola: I need money.
Mmabru: What for?
Nikola: To go and see my parents in Donovich. I have a friend. I pay, he takes me where they are. I have $40, only need 10 more.
Mambru: You can't do that.
Nikola: You pay, you go.
Mambru: You can't. It's too dangerous.
Nikola: Not dangerous. You pay, all is possible here.
Mambru: You can't do that...
Nikola: Yes I can.
Mambru: Here's a $100. On one condition. You take your grandfather on this trip.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:14 am

A day in the life of an "aimless youth".

Lots of films about folks who, for one reason or another, "drop out" of society. If you want to call this dropping out. It's more in the way of an "attitude". And that generally precipitates one or another reaction from all the folks who either claim to "get it" or don't. After all, if you haven't yet dropped out of society but want to you are likely to be considerably more sympathetic.

That it happens this time in Berlin carries its own cultural and historical baggage. So you have to adjust your own similarly biased reaction accordingly. In fact a few critics have pointed out that "foreigners" may be at a disadvantage here in following the plot, in following the characters. The film within the film for example. Or the drunk in the bar.

Though in other respects it is Any Big City in our postmodern world.

Or you can start with the assumption that, life being essentially meaningless and absurd, one reaction is more or less interchangeable with any other. That way we all start out and end up with a fifty-fifty chance of being either right or wrong.

Also, this is a film in which everything unfolds within the span of a single day. And that is important because the context is narrowed down to a single day as well. You don't have much in the way of a past to put it all in perspective. And you can't really even imagine a future. At least one that is really any different.

Bottom line: You may want to be "hip" and "avant-garde" but there are just too many folks intent on you being "normal" instead.

Or, sure, maybe it's just a film about a man trying to get a cup of coffee.

The film is shot in my own favorite color, black and white. Which means that in more ways than one there are going to be lots and lots and lots of shades of gray.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Coffee_In_Berlin
trailer: https://youtu.be/fDOLiSZg7QU


A COFFEE IN BERLIN [Oh Boy] 2012
Written and directed by Jan Ole Gerster

Elli: What about tonight?
Niko: I don't think I can make it.
Elli: Why?
Niko: Because I have a thousand things to do.
Elli: What do you have to do?

...

Psychologist: MPE. Do you know what that means?
Niko: Medical-Pyschological Examination.
Psychologist: More commonly known as?
Niko: The idiot-test?
Psychologist: Correct. "Idiot-test." And who are you calling "Idiot?" Me or you?
Niko: Me.

...

Psychologist: No driver's license.
Niko: Why?
Psychologist: You're emotionally unbalanced. Your living situation suggests a relapse.
Niko: You can't judge that yet.
Psychologist: No?
[he signs the form]
Psychologist: I just did.

...

Woman: Don't you want to try something new? Today's special is a Maroccino. With a chocolate donut for two Euros more. Homemade and organic.
Niko: I'll just take the coffee.
Woman: All right. We've got "Caf Arabica" or "Columbia Morning. "
Niko: Which one taste the most like regular coffee?
Woman: They both taste good to me.
Niko: Great. I'll take the Columbia, then.
Woman: The Colombia. Very well. Should I add milk?
Niko: No.
Woman: Soy milk?
Niko: Please, no.
Woman: All right. 3.40 please.
Niko [startled]: Without the special? Just the coffee?
Woman: Yeah, 3.40.
Niko: 3.40 for a coffee?!
Woman: That's the Colombia.
Niko: You could have said that. I have 2.20... 60, 70...
Woman: That's not enough.
Niko: Couldn't you make an exception?
Woman [looking over at the boss who shakes his head]: Sorry, I can't do that. Then ten other bums will suddenly want a coffee for free.
Niko: Bums?
Woman: Yeah, bums.


Hey, it's a Starbucks world.
Next up: Karl

Matze: Someone should clean up this city. Because it's a pile of shit. I get a headache when I take a walk, and have to smell the filth. Unbelievable. The headaches get worse and worse. I have an idea. The President needs to burn down this city or flush it down a gigantic toilet.
Niko: "Taxi Driver"?
Matze: Exactly.

...

Father: Niko, why are you lying to me?
Niko: Hm?
Father: I met Professor Kollath at a conference in Zurich. He told me that you dropped out of your studies two years ago. My question, sweet Niko, is: What have you done these last two years, while I've been sending you money? Hm?
Niko: Thinking. I've been thinking.
Father: You've been thinking things over? What things, might I ask?
Niko: Things about myself, about you.
Father: I give you 1,000 euros, so that you can think about yourself, about me?
Niko: Yeah.

...

Father [to Niko]: Your account is closed.

...

Printed on Marcel's t-shirt: FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING FUCK

...

Ralf [writer and director of avant-garde theater]: I'd like to know. What did you find funny?
Matze: The representation of the birth. That certainly entered into the realm of the comic.
Ralf: Then I ask myself, with all seriousness, why don't we come into the world with a huge grin on our faces? Why do we scream and cry as we're being born?
Niko: To open up the respiratory passage.
Ralf: Are you a doctor?
Niko: No, but that's what I read.

...

Niko: I wouldn't have the guts to do what you do on the stage.
Julika: You weren't always this cautious.
Niko: What was I then?
Julika: You always seemed to know exactly what you wanted.
[Niko says nothing]
Julika: What is it?
Niko: I don't know. Do you know what it's like to have the feeling that all the people around you are honestly kind of weird? But when you think it over, then it becomes clear that the problem is with yourself.


Next up: Ronny.

Julika [of Niko coming between her and Ronny]: You intervened, that's what matters.
Niko: If you hadn't provoked them, none of this would have happened.
Julika [who had been offered 10 Euro from Ronny to show him her "tits"]: What do you mean?
Niko: Well, you laid into them pretty hard. I mean, ignore them and they move on. Everybody knows that.
Julika [angrily]: Do you know how many times in my life I've tried to ignore what other people say? Do you have any idea how it feels to be a girl in her puberty who weighs 180 pounds and gets named Roly Poly Julie and Elephant Girl and...
Niko: ...Fatty?
Julika: It took a long time for me to get over that. And that's why I don't ignore anything anymore. Not a thing.

...

Julika [enraged after Niko refuses to say "I want to fuck the fat little girl!"]: People line up to fuck me!!

...

Drunk in a bar: I don't understand people anymore. I don't understand a word they say.
Niko: Listen, if you don't mind, I'd like to be alone, okay?
Drunk [obliviously]: I don't have the faintest idea what they are talking about. Listen...that sounds like a different language, doesn't it?
Niko [looking around the bar]: They are speaking German.
Drunk: Well then I ought to understand them. I'm speaking German too, am I not?

...

Niko: Where were you for 60 years?
Drunk: Gone. And now I'm back.
Niko: I see.
Drunk: You see nothing. You don't understand anything. Everything looked very different here, my friend. Over there was my school. I was so dirty. We pissed our pants, because we had to stand at attention at the front of the class and greet the Fuhrer: "Heil Hitler" here, "Heil Hilter," there.
Bartender: Hey, hey!
Drunk: It's OK. You can't really understand it, when you're that old. What do you do, then? You do what everyone does.

...

Drunk: Once in the middle of the night my father woke me up and said: "Come with me, child, onto the street. I want to show you something. " So then I was with him in the street. He put a couple stones in my hand and said: "Now look at what you have there. " Then he took a a stone himself and broke these panes of glass with it. Yeah. Right here, where we're sitting. The street was full of people. It was pitch black. Not so bright as today, where everything's lit up and shining, because people can't bear the darkness anymore. Pitch black. And all these people were breaking windows with stones. And these windowpanes here, my father quickly smashed into pieces. And I stood over there on the street. and everything was full of broken glass, and it burned and the street glittered because the fire was so bright. And I can still remember perfectly, that at some point I started to cry. And now you ask, why?
Niko: Why?
Drunk: Because I thought: "Because of all these glass shards, I can't ride my bike here anymore."

...

Niko [of the drunk]: Is he doing better?
Nurse: He died. I'm sorry.
Niko: Have you called his family?
Nurse: He doesn't have one.
Niko: No one? Can you tell me what his name is?
Nurse: I'm sorry, we're not allowed to.
Niko: His first name?
Nurse: Friedrich.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:14 am

Race is everywhere here.

The human race. The black race. The race around the track.

Of course the race around the track is different. You are either the first one around it or you're not. The fact that you are black or brown or red or yellow or white doesn't change the fact that you either get there first or you don't.

Unless of course we go back to a time when being black excluded you from any number of sports. Then take all of that over to Nazi Germany and the 1936 Olympics.

It all adds up to Jesse Owens.

Jesse: In those ten seconds, there's no black or white, only fast or slow.

Of course some white folks will always be comfortable with a narrative in which the triumphant sports figure or the entertainer is black. As long as it more or less ends there. If they can't be racist regarding some aspects of human interactions they will always find a way to be racist regarding the parts that count the most. At least to them.

And then there is always that fork in the road. Go in one direction and the priority is personal, go in the other direction and the priority is political. And there are always any number of folks lining up from both sides to tug you in the right direction.

Also, the part where Jesse Owens the man fits into mankind coming to grips with how folks react to other folks who are not the same color as them. Something that we seem to be visiting all over again with the new American president. How far back will he turn the clock? Is it or is it not for nothing these days that Trump is being portrayed as a racist? Even a fascist. But does anyone actually believe he can set the clock back 80 years?

The bottom line is that a film of this sort is going to be critiqued on where it draws the line between the man and the moment, the man and the movement; between race over there and race over here; between the individual snapshot and the big picture.

So, is it more or less "revisionist"?

IMDb

Snyder buys Owens new shoes from shoemaker Adi Dassler, who would later found Adidas.

Jesse Owens was born James Cleveland Owens. The name Jesse comes from his first two initials.

His achievement of setting three world records and tying another in less than an hour at the 1935 Big Ten track meet in Ann Arbor, Michigan, has been called "the greatest 45 minutes ever in sport".

In the movie, Jesse Owens and Luz Long talk during the competition and Long even helps Owens for his qualifying long jump. According to an interview given by Owens to historian Tom Ecker ("Olympic Facts and Fables") in 1965, this is a myth: Owens and Long never talked during the Olympics. Apparently, this legend was previously created by Owens himself to make Long's son feel better after his father's death. However it is true they became friends at the end of the Olympics and kept contact afterwards, until Long's death in 1943 in Sicily. Owens still expressed his great respect for Long even after that date.

The German zeppelin flying over the Olympiastadion during the beginning of the games is the LZ 129 Hindenburg. One year later, it exploded while docking at Lakehurst Naval Air Station in New Jersey, killing 36 people.


at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(2016_film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/E31LnSw47xo


RACE [2016]
Directed by Stephen Hopkins

White athlete: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa...Now what you boys think you're doing.
Jesse: Just using the showers.
White athlete: Not until we're through your're not. You niggers can wait your turn.
White athlete: Yeah, can you believe they let these jiggoboos share a locker room with us.


You know that it's going to start there.

Larry: Charlie Riley says you can run. Says you're a natural, best he's ever seen.
Jesse: Well, I guess.
Larry: Me, personally, I don't trust naturals 'cause they think they don't have to work. I will say you can run. And boy, can you jump. What I want to know is - can you win?

...

Larry [to Jesse who has been looking down the whole time]: You know, your mama might have taught you how to dress right, but she sure as hell didn't teach you anything about manners. You should look a man in the eye when he is speaking to you.
[Jesse looks up]
Larry: Can you work?
Jesse: I was picking a 100 pounds of cotton a day at six years old. You ever pick cotton? The way it cuts you when you pick it off the boll? Yes, sir, I can work.

...

Larry: I was watching you out there today and I'll tell you this. Your start's no good, your rhythm's off and your posture's lousy. But we can fix all that, that's easy. But if you want to win it takes more than a pair of legs.
[he taps Jesse on the head]
Larry: You win up here. And that's the part I don't know about you yet. I don't know if you got that.

...

Jesse: I ran the 100 yards last year in Chicago in 9.4. I mean, it's the same as Wykoff. It's a world record.
Larry: Records don't mean shit! You know what matters? Medals. Some kid out of nowhere, snatch your record from you like that. But a gold medal? That's yours...for life.

...

Larry: You wanna win a gold medal?
Jesse: Well, sure.
Larry: You wanna do it in Berlin?
Jesse: I heard they don't care much for colored folk over there.
Larry: Well, they don't care for 'em much here in Columbus either. Is that going to be a problem?
Jesse: No, sir. I just came here to run.

...

Lynn [looking over at Jesse]: Another one? The joke on the board is that they're thinking of renaming us the "Model-T State". Any color you want, so long as it's black.
Larry: Yeah, well if you and Coach Schimdt let them play football, they wouldn't all choose track and field, huh?

...

Lynn [after Jesse runs in practice]: I don't know why you look so impressed. That was a second slower than Wykoff's record.
Larry: Fred Wykoff runs 100 yards in 9.4. Kid just ran a 100 meters.
[Lynn looks at him puzzled]
Larry: Lynn, you do know that meters are longer than yards, yeah?

...

Jesse [who has just broken a record while practicing]: Is there a problem?
Larry [staring at his stopwatch in disbelief]: No, no problem!
Jesse: Want me to do it again?
Larry: Yeah, that'd be great.

...

Avery: What's this I'm hearing about a boycott?
Jeremiah: Nothing has been decided yet but we are hearing some pretty ugly reports out of Germany.
AAU official: It is not the purpose of the AAU or the AOC or the IOC to tell Germans how to govern their affairs.
Jeremiah: So you think we should just sit back and take their word that they afre going to play fair.
AAU official: I'm saying that politics has no place in sport.

...

Jeremiah: There is a lot of hateful literature coming out of there. And it is not only against the Jews. Now they are saying they don't want Negros to compete.
Avery: Krauts got kicked in the balls twenty years ago, and they're still catching their brearth. They need these games. Show they're back on their feet. Why would they risk us pulling out?

...

Jeremiah: How can you trust the word of a Nazi?
Avery: I've never met a Nazi? Have you? Come to think of it, when is the last time you played 18 holes with a Jew...or a Negro?

...

Jesse [after he missed a practice]: Look, Coach, I need that job pumping gas. I got a lot of people counting on me back home.
Larry: I guess I misunderstood. I got the impression when you stood in my office and you looked me in the eye, that YOU MADE ME A GODDAMN COMMITTMENT!!
Jesse: Look, I know I ain't as fast as I can be, but you need to figure out a way to feed and put clothes on my baby girl. Or else fit your practices in around me. 'Cause I'm all out of options.
Larry: Hey, why didn't you tell me you had a daughter?
Jesse: 'Cause you never asked.


Coach gets him a better job. It pays 60 dollars a month to do nothing.

Avery [in Germany]: Look, I'm not here to tell you how to run your country. I walk in a man's house, I'm not going to piss on his rug. But I don't expect him to feed me manure and call it foie gras. You want to use these games to sell your nasty little ideas to the world, and I'm hear to tell you that no one is going to stand for it. You've got to clean up your act.
Leni [the interpreter for Josef Goebbels]: Would you like me to translate or interpret?


She interprets.

Avery [looking straight at Goebbels]: I want your word that you will not exclude Jews or Negroes from the games. As long as they are Americans, we'll bring Martians if we want to.

More interpretation. Then Leni "interprets" what Goebbels says back to Avery.

Larry: You also shattered the Ohio State record for the most points in a single year, so congrats.
Jesse: Really? Which cracker did I take that from?
Larry [pointing to himself]: This cracker.

...

Larry [to Jesse regarding Quincella]: The choices your making right now won't even feel like choices until it is too late.

...

Jeramiah [to Avery]: 58 to 56. Congratulations.

...

Emma: Jesse, this is Representative Davis of the Ohio State legislature. He's here on behalf of the NAACP.
Jesse: The what?
Davis: The National Association for the Adancement of Colored People.

...

Davis: The Olympic trials are coming up soon...No doubt you hope to qualify and take part?
Jesse: Well, yeah. I mean, yes, sir.
Davis: Even under the Hitler regime? On behalf of the NAACP and the Negro community across America, I hope you don't go.
Ruth: But this is the Olympic Games. I mean, Jesse's been training for this his whole life.
Davis: Look, Jesse. You're the best. You have a chance to strike a powerful blow. I know that it must sound hypocritical for any American to talk about racial bigotry in other countries but that is the reason we must not go to these games. We've got a chance here to show our solidarity with the oppressed people of Germany. It's all part of the same great hatred. We can make those in power aware of their moral obligation to fight against the wrongs that we Negros suffer right here at home.
Henry [Jesse's father]: Do you think it will make a damn bit of difference? He stays, they ain't gonna notice. He goes, he can come back with a drawer full of medals, and they will hate him even worse than they did before.
[he turns to his son]
Henry: J.C. You do what you want, you hear me. It ain't gonna make no difference no how.

...

Jesse: Do you run, Mr. Davis.
Davis: No, not competitively.
Jesse: Figures. Cause you know out there on that track you're free of all this. The moment that gun goes off can't nothing stop you. Nothing matters, not color, not money, not even hate. There ain't no black and white, there's only fast and slow. For those ten seconds you are completely free. Now here you come and tell me I can't do it, that I'm letting down my race if I go. What's that suppose to do for me?

...

Larry [after Jesse announces he is not going]: You get a chance to be a part of history and you’re gonna walk away from it?
Jesse: I’ve got people looking at me for an example.
Larry: What do you mean, people? What people? Black people? I don’t give a shit about any of that!
Jesse: Yeah, well you’re white, Larry! You don’t have to!!

...

Eulace: I read the papers. All those people yelling and screaming at you. It can really get in the way of a man's concentration, but all that means is there's a lot of people counting on you.
Jesse: To do what?
Eulace: To get on over there and stick it up Hitler's ass! Courtesy of Eulace Peacock.

...

Jesse: I'm gonna be there all by myself. The whole world watching. What if I lose...if I lose, it'll mean those Nazis are right.
Ruth: Quit thinking so much Jesse, it's not what you're good at. You was put here to run.

...

Avery [to Goebbels]: You let the chancellor know he congratulates all of the gold medalists or none of them.
[Goebbels looks over to Furstner]
Goebbels [indicating Jesse]: Do you really think he'd allow himself to be photographed shaking hands with that?

...

Leni [to Avery acting as translator]: He says you have a business arrangement.
Avery: That was business! That has nothing to do with this.
Leni [translating not interpreting]: How would it look for for American Olympic Association to have collaborated with us before these games.


Avery sells out the Jews...

Marty: Oh come on, you know what this is all about? We're the only Jews.
Cromwell: This has nothing to do with the Jewish question.

...

Track coach: We want to field our strongest runners. And that's gonna be Ralph and Jesse.
Avery: That's perfect.
Jesse: No, look, Coach. You gotta run Sam and Marty. I mean, I can't speak for Ralph, but you gotta give them a shot. I've never even ran the relay. I don't even think I know how to pass a baton...Ralph you do what you want but I ain't running. Not unless Sam and Marty say it's alright.

...

Marty: If you lose it's for nothing. Understand? Sam asnd me would've been shafted for nothing. All the world will see is another Nazi waving another medal.
Jesse: What are you trying to say?
Sam: He means don't lose.

...

Title card: Following his defiance of the Nazi ideal, Carl "Luz" Long was enlisted in the German army and sent to the front lines. He and Jesse remained friends until Long was killed in action during the invasion of Sicily.

...

Doorman: I'm sorry sir but your friends will have to use the servants entrance.
Larry [stunned, pointing to Jesse]: Are you kidding me? You know who this is?
Doorman: Yes, sir.
Larry: I mean, they are holding the dinner for him!
Doorman: Yes, sir. I'm sorry, Mr. Owens, sir, but those are the rules.

...

Title card: The White House never publicaly acknowledged Jesse Owens, or his success in the 1936 Olympics.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:50 am

In the present, Woody Allen is rapidly running out of the future. So one way in which to distract himself from that is by tunneling back into the past.

And here it all revolves around "cafe society": "Cafe Society" was a phrase coined by Maury Henry Biddle Paul in 1915 to describe the "beautiful people" who socialized and threw parties in the high profile cafés and restaurants in New York, Paris, and London.

And then the part about "show business". The usual suspects are back again with the usual targets on their back.

And while many will insist that he is making fun of them, others will insist that they know better.

Not that Allen's perennial "themes" are ever buried all that far below the surface. Three in particular: 1] love 2] love and 3] love.

In particular, the utter and inane futility of ever trying to actually pin it down when the head and the heart become mortal enemies.

And then the part about contingency, chance and change. Oh, and the essential meaningless and absurdity of life. That's Leonard's part to play here. In other words, turning the themes that I tend to focus on here into "entertainment".

Or into a joke.

This and the fact that mere mortals are the only species on earth that this is relevant to. Which seems to be beyond the reach of, among others, many philosophers.

Here folks are generally shallow, generally pretentious, and generally assholes. Not counting Bobby and Vonnie of course. Well, unless you do.

And then Ben the gangster.

Don't look for Bruce Willis. But do look for vestiges of The Apartment. And Crimes and Misdemeanors.

IMDb

Steve Carell replaced Bruce Willis after filming started. Woody Allen fired Willis after he and the cast tired of his behavior and inability to remember his lines.

This is the first film since Twilight that Kristen Stewart had to audition for to win the role. Woody Allen was unaware of Kristen Stewart's immense exposure due to her involvement in the Twilight franchise. He cast her primarily because he admired her performance in Adventureland .

When Ben's history of theft is shown, it includes a subtle homage to The 400 Blows when it says that his life of crime includes stealing typewriters when he was a schoolboy. The protagonist of that film, Antoine Doinel (Jean-Pierre Léaud), stole a typewriter when he was at school.


at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caf%C3%A9_Society_(film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/Y2c1y1HT0yo


CAFE SOCIETY [2015]
Written and directed by Woody Allen

Evelyn [in a letter to Bobby]: "Leornard says it's the poignancy of life and not only do we have to embrace its meaningless but celebrate life because it has no meaning. That's too deep for me but Mom always boils it down to, 'live every day like it's your last, and someday you'll be right.'"

...

Vonnie: I thought I'd come to Hollywood and live in one of these big houses with the swimming pool and hobnob with all the glamorous types, go to openings. You know, you grow up and quickly realize if you have half a brain, what a silly life that can be.

...

Narrator [Woody Allen]: Lovely, charming, and uncorrupted by the values of a seductive city that worshipped fame and box office records, Vonnie enchanted him, although he was too scared to ask if she had a boyfriend. As his philosophy maven brother-in-law once said, "Some questions you don't want to know the anaswers to."

...

Phil: Howard is a two time Academy Award winner.
Bobby: Wow, congratulations.
Howard: Thank you. You've never heard of me, I'm a writer.

...

Rad: Here's a fellow New Yorker who's suffering from unrequited love.
Booby: That's true, I am.
Steve: Unrequited love kills more people in any given year out here than tuberculosis.

...

Bobby: It's funny, my Uncle Phil, your ex-employer, so dynamic, confident, confided to me. He's been so hopelessy miserable, these days. He had an affair....but he could not leave his wife. However, he is so very much in love with this other woman that he has decided to leave Karen and plans to marry this other woman. And he's been suffering so much because he very much likes and respects his wife, but he just cannot go on without this other woman.
[Vonnie says nothing]
Bobby: I didn't have the nerve to ask if it was a movie star.


These things happen. don't they? Then what? Then this:

Phil [to Vonnie]: ...in matters of the heart, we do foolish things.

Of course, Phil is a powerful zillionaire and Bobby is, well, not a powerful zillionaire. Or not yet.

Bobby: Are you going to marry me or my Uncle Phil?
Vonnie: I'm going to marry Phil.

...

Marty: What kind of man throws out his wife of 25 years to run off with a 25 year old secretary?
Ben: Bobby says she is really beautiful.
Marty: So, is looks everything? Where's character? Where's loyalty?
Leonard: Look, love is an emotion and emotions are not rational. You fall in love, you lose control.

...

Leonard: I have known many wonderful women, but the moment I laid eyes on your daughter I knew that Evelyn was for me.
Evelyn: It was pure luck. If my cab driver hadn't driven his cab through the plate glass window of a restaurant I never would have met Leonard. He was having coffee and we barreled right into him.

...

Narrator: Soon Les Tropiques was known as the place one could always find the driest martinis and the prettiest women in Manhattan. Beautiful girls attracted celebrites and sports figures. Socialites mingled with politicians, and with the smart set, came the press and an ever growing reputation. And Bobby moved more and more gracefully amongst the rich and famous and learned more about the ins and outs of cafe society.

...

Veronica: I hope you don't mind a democratic liberal...
Bobby: No, no, no...it's...my whole family are Demo...we're Jews.
Veronica: Oh, Jews. How quaint. It plays right into my rebellious streak. You know, in Oklahome we weren't even allowed to mingle with Jews growing up.
Bobby: Really?
Veronica: You guys were the money-lenders.
Bobby: No, we control everything, actually.
Veronica: I never even saw a Jew until we moved to New York. I find Jews exotic and mysterious.


The ones without horns as it were.

Veronica [to Bobby]: You called me Vonnie. You never call me that....That's what you said your old girlfriend was called.

...

Narrator: It seemed Bobby knew everyone in high society. His wife Veronica now rarely came in, having succumbed to the joys of motherhood. And then one evening in walked the past...

...

Bobby: ...you should listen to yourself and look at you...you've become everything that you used to pke fun at, everything that you couldn't stand.
Vonnie: Well, you know. Time passes. Life moves on. People change.
Bobby: Yeah, but all that talk about the simple life. It would be comical if it weren't so sad.
Vonnie: Well, you're not necessarily the same person you were either.


She's got that right.

Leonard [to Evelyn]: I haven't seen our next door neighbor now for quite a while.

...

Ben: This if Father Brolian. He's guilding me to understand Christianity.
Bobby: Ben, I'm...I'm flabbergasted.
Ben: Yeah, I know. We both didn't have time for this bullshit before, but when the end is near you need something.
Bobby: You don't want to be buried as a Jew in a Jewish cemetary?
Ben: The Jewish religion doesn't believe in an afterlife.
Bobby: Right, I guess, but I can't believe what I'm hearing from you.
Ben: I have to know that it all doesn't end, you know what I mean? I have to believe that part of me keeps going, that we all got a soul.
[he turns to the priest]
Ben: Right, Father?


This part? http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/ ... m-1.638100

Rose: First a murderer, then he becomes a Christian. What did I do to deserve this? Which is worse?
Marty: He explained it to you. The Jews don't have an afterlife.
Rose: We are all afraid of dying, Marty! But we don't give up the religion we are born into.
Marty: I'm not afraid to die.
Rose: You're too stupid to appreciate the implications.
Marty: I didn't say I like the idea. And I will resist death with everything I have. But when the Angel of Death comes to cut me down, I'll go. I'll protest. I'll curse. You hear me? I will go under protest.
Rose: Protest to who? What the hell are you gonna do? Write a letter to the Times?
Marty: I will protest the silence. I will protest that my whole life I pray and I pray and there is never an answer.
Rose: Nit kain entfer iz oich en entfer.
Marty: What are you saying?
Rose: "No answer is also an answer". Too bad the Jewish religion doesn't have an afterlife. They'd get a lot more customers.

...

Veronica: Can I ask you a question?
Bobby: Yeah, sure.
Veronica: Have you ever cheated on me?

...

Leonard [to Evelyn]: I was just pondering the relentlessness of time. Socrates said, "The unexamined life is not worth living." But the examined one is no bargain...
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:25 am

There have been any number of films that explored the offtimes brutal relationship between the modern world and one or another "primitive" aboriginal tribe. For example, The Emerald Forest and At Play In the Fields of the Lord.

Often the theme revolves around how much we could learn from them if we weren't so busy either bringing them over to Christ or stealing their land in order to exploit one or another natural resource.

In other words, one or another reflection on "the noble savage" meeting one or another reflection on "the white man's burden". The "natives" always being so much more at one with nature, while the "imperialists" are ever intent only on subjugating it. First Spain and now the entire global economy. Or, as one reviewer noted, "...the rain forest of the Amazon are disappearing at the rate of 5000 acres a day. Four million Indians once lived there, now 120,000 remain."

It's basically just one more futile debate in which apologists from both sides embrace a set of assumptions that allow them to condemn all of the assumptions from the other side. And, in the end [as is almost always the case], might makes right.

Here however the "white man" are embodied in the efforts of two scientists to forge a more constructive relationship between the old world and the new. In fact the film is based on diaries written by scientists Theodor Koch-Grunberg and Richard Evan Schultes.

Look for some of the most fucked up Christians you are ever likely to come across. On or off the screen. It sometimes just boggles the mind what religion can be twisted into.

IMDb

First Colombian film nominated for an Academy Award for Best Foreign Film.

The scene where a man is praised to be the Messiah is based on an actual event.

Nilbio Torres (Young Karamakate), Antonio Bolívar (Old Karamakate) and all the natives of the film are natural actors.

The indigenous languages spoken in the movie are Cubeo, Wanano, Tikuna and Uitoto (pronounced Wee-toto).


at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace_of_the_Serpent
trailer: https://youtu.be/4ff7TcnqHUc


EMBRACE OF THE SERPENT [El Arazo de la Serpiente ] 2015
Written in part and directed by Ciro Guerra

Title card: It is not possible for me to know if the infinite jungle has started on me the process that has taken many others to complete and irremediable insanity. In this case, I can only apologize and ask for your understanding, for the display I witnessed in those enchanted hours was such that I find it impossible to describe in words its beauty and splendor; all I know is that, when I came back, I had become another man. Theodor von Martius, Amazonia, 1909.

...

Young Karamakate: What do you want?
Manduca: I am Manduca, son of Rubibujuri, of the Maloka Komelemong. I am Bara of the river..
Young Karamakate: I know the Baras! You submitted to the whites without a fight!! What do you want.
Manduca: This is Theodor von Martious, my friend and travel partner. He is very sick. All of the nearby shamans tried to heal him. No one could. They all said that you were the only one who could help us.
Young Karamakate: I'm not like you. I don't help the whites.
Manduca: He is a wise man who has come only to learn.

...

Evan [holding up a book]: Many years ago, this man Theodor von Martius, was here and he wrote about the plant I am looking for. I want to know if his writings are true. I devote my life to plants.
Old Karamakate: You devote your life to plants?
[Evan nods]
Old Karamakate: That's the most reasonable thing I've ever heard a white man say.

...

Evan: I can give you a lot of money if you help me.
[he reaches into his pack and brings out two one dollar bills]
Evan: It's a lot of money.
Old Karamakate [laughing]: Ants like money. I don't. It taste bad.

...

Young Karamakate [after Tuschaua steals Theodor's compass]: You're nothing but a white to them.
Theodor: Their orientation system is based on the winds and the positions of the stars. If they learn how to use a compass, that knowledge will be lost.
Young Karamakate: You cannot forbid them to learn. Knowledge belongs to all men. But you can't understand that because you are nothing but a white man.

...

Young Karamakate: Leave all that. They're just things.
Theodor: No.
Young Karamakate: Why do you whites love your things so much?
Theodor: They are not just things. They are my only bond to my people in Germany. To my town, my wife, my children. These boxes contain all the knowledge I have gathered in four years of travel. I have to keep them, otherwise no one will believe me. Leaving them is leaving everything.
Young Karamakate: You're insane.

...

Young Karamakate: The rubber barons give you those scars?
Manduca: Yes, but I am a free man now.

...

Manduca [after spilling the rubber from a one armed bedraggled native's pots]: What's he saying?
Young Karamakate: He's asking you to kill him.

...

Theodor: Let's go.
Young Karamakate: I'm not going.
Theodor: Why?
Young Karamakate: Whites can't be trusted.
Theodor: I have no reason to trust you either. So, what do we do?
Young Karamakate: Is this your knowledge? Shotguns? All your science only leads to this, violence, death.
Manduca: Don't talk to him like that. He's done more for our people than you.
Young Karamakate: And look at you. Your clothes. The same as the white men! How could you let them do this to you? You think like the white men, you think nothing. Which side are you on?!
Theodor: I've never met anyone more loyal than Manduca. He has never stopped defending his people. And you? What have you done? Run away from the world, isolating yourself like a madman. I'm not stealing anything.

...

Theodor [after developing a photograph of Karamakate]: I have to keep it.
Young Karamakate: But it's me.
Theodor: It's not you. It's an image of you.
Young Karamakate: Like a chullachaqui?
Theodor: A what?
Young Karamakate: A chullachaqui. We all have one. He looks just like you, but he's empty, hollow.
Theodor: This is a memory. A moment that passed.
Young Karamakate: A chullachqui has no memories. It only drifts around the world, like a ghost lost in time without time.

...

Manduca: Do you only steal boys?
Priest: Our mission is sacred. We must save the souls of the orphans of the rubber war, and keep them away from cannibalism and ignorance.

...

Plaque on the wall at the mission: IN RECOGNITION OF THE COURAGE OF THE COLUMBIAN RUBBER PIONEERS WHO BROUGHT CIVILIZATION TO THE LAND OF CANNIBAL SAVAGES AND SHOWED THEM THE PATH OF GOD AND HIS HOLY CHURCH.

...

Old Karamakate: Are you interested in rubber?
Evan: I've never seen a strain like this.
Old Karamakate: Rubber means death. But it's what you're looking for, right?

...

Evan [reacting to the "Messiah"]: This is madness.
[he looks over to Old Karamakate]
Evan: Don't you care?
Old Karamakate: I do. Something went wrong. They are now the worst of both worlds.

...

Evan: You poisoned them!
Old Karamakate: I didn't poison them. I just gave them something to think better. They are Makus. They were not born of the anaconda. They are less than human.
Evan: You sound like one of those rubber barons.

...

Old Karamakate: To become warriors, the cohiuanos must abandon all and go alone to the jungle, guided only by their dreams. In this journey, he has to find out, in solitude and silence, who he really is. He must become a wanderer dream. Many are lost, and some never return. But those who return they are ready to face what is to come.To become warriors, the cohiuanos must abandon all and go alone to the jungle, guided only by their dreams. In this journey, he has to find out, in solitude and silence, who he really is. He must become a wanderer dream. Many are lost, and some never return. But those who return they are ready to face what is to come.

...

Old Karamakate: Now you are his slave.
Manduca: I am nobody's slave. I'm with him because we need him. He can teach the whites.
Old Karamakate: How can he learn if he doesn't respect the jungle?
Manduca: He's afraid. But he can learn. He's a hero to his people. They all admire him and listen to his stories. If we can't get the whites to learn, it will be the end for us. The end of everything.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:24 am

Think about it...

There was a time many years ago when, in being part of an Orthodox religious community, your day to day narrative was ever and always reinforced. After all, by and large, this particular community was all you really knew. There was a place for everyone and everyone was made to fit into one or another particular niche. It just never even occurred to many to think about living in any other way.

That was then. Now however what is construed to be orthodox behavior is ever bumping into additional, conflicting narratives. On television. In the movies. On the internet. And in your day to day interactions with all of the many folks who look at the world around them in very, very different ways. The old ways and the new ways seem ever in a tug of war.

So, in the modern world the old ways have to find a way to accommodate all that is new.

Here, in particular:

A devout 18-year-old Israeli is pressured to marry the husband of her late sister. Declaring her independence is not an option in Tel Aviv's ultra-Orthodox Hasidic community, where religious law, tradition and the rabbi's word are absolute.

But is this really the case? It is argued here that in the end the woman always has the final say on who she marries. But "in reality" what does this really mean?

What unfolds here is relevant to any other such community. What they happen to believe is not nearly as important as the fact that what they do believe allows them to anchor their "self" in necessity. In virtually every situation you are expected to act in a particular manner. You think and you feel and you behave as you do because to think and to feel and to behave otherwise is sacrilegious.

For some, you can even end up burning in Hell for all of eternity.

You are brought into this community in the film. And you can clearly see its appeal for some. You are snuggly fitted into an existential framework [from the cradle to the grave] in which so much about your life has already been settled. The very embodiment of objectivism.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_the_Void
trailer: https://youtu.be/NQuWarA9KXg


FILL THE VOID [Lemale et Ha'halal ] 2012
Written and directed by Rama Burshtein

Rivka [to her daughter in regard to her future husband...in an arranged marriage]: He looks just like his father. Shira? What do you say?

In other words, at least she has a choice.

Rivka [after her daughter dies]: I can't believe Yochay's already thinking of getting married.
Yochay's mother: It's sinking in...slowly. It's tearing me apart, Rivka.
Rivka: Who is she?
Yochay's mother: She was widowed six months ago....
Rivka: Where is she from?
Yochay's mother: Belgium.
Rivka: You're not taking the baby to Belgium...
Yochay's mother: I'm not doing anything. I'm only suggesting it to Yochay. He's the only one to decide.
Rivka: You're killing me.

...

Rivka: You're like a son to me. I'll get right to the point. How do you feel about getting married?
Yochay: I'm planning to. Right now.
Rivka: You're not a 19 year old yeshiva boy. Think about Mordechay.
Yochay: It won't bother you if I get remarred?
Rivka: The only things that matter are you and the child.
Yochay: I didn't get an interesting offer yet.
Rivka: Why not Shira?
Yochay: Is that your idea?

...

Rivka: Shira, what's wrong with Yochay?
Aharon [her father]: Shira, nobody is forcing you to do anything. It's your decision.
Rivka: You don't have decide right now.
Aharon: You can say no right now.
Shira: No. He is Esther's husband, it is wrong.
Rivka: We spoke to Yochay, he agreed.
Shira: Why aren't you marrying me off to Pinchas Miller?
Rivka: They called it off.
Shira: What?
Aharon: They decided to call it off.
Shira: Why?

...

Frieda [whispering in Shira's ear]: Esther once told me that if anything happens to her, I should marry Yochay.

...

Yochay: I don't know how to begin.
[Shira says nothing. The room is bursting at the seams with uncertainty and tension]
Yochay: I think it's best if we're honest. What's confusing you?
Shira: I'm not confused.
Yochay: How's that possible?
Shira: I don't know.
Yochay: Does it scare you to be confused? Doesn't it scare you?

...

Yochay [after Shira tells him about Frieda]: Why did you let me say all the things I said?
Shira: I don't know. I didn't mean to. I should have known...
Yochay: You're so cruel.
[he gets up to leave]
Yochay: Out of respect, please tell your parents that it would not have worked out.


That's how these things often play out. Each misunderstanding the other. Not only what they say but the intention behind it.

Rivka [after Yochay tells her he is taking the baby to Belgium...that he will not marry Frieda]: Tell me how am I going to survive this?
Yochay: A miracle.
Rivka: What a terrible tragedy has happened to us, Yochay. Pray for me to have the strenght to survive this.

...

Shira: You're too close.
Yochay: I could have been closer.

...

Shira [after her mother wakes her]: What's up?
Rivka: Father and Yochay are meeting.

...

Yochay: Why do you now want to marry me?
Shira: For the same reasons you're willing to.

...

Yochay [to Shira]: Stop disappearing.

...

Rabbi [looking at Shira]: How does the young lady feel about this.
Shira: It is not a matter of feelings.
Rabbi: It is only a matter of feelings.
Shira: A deed must be done, and I want to do it to everyone's satisfaction.
Rabbi: Oh, Shira'll. Oh ,Shira'll. Oh, Shira'll...


Thumbs down.

Yochay: Congratulations!
Shira: Congratulations!


So, what was written in that note to the Rabbi?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:45 pm

Imagine the least likely class struggle. Still, for some, it will always be better than nothing. Especially given the fact that, for at least the next four years, we will be living in Trumpland.

Here, however, all of the battles unfold in a single high-rise apartment complex. Naturally, the closer you are to the top the more likely it is that you are both rich and powerful. And the farther down you go, well, use your imagination.

On the other hand, Adam Smith and Karl Marx make no appearances here at all. It's all considerably more...vulgar. Some got it, some don't. So what are those who don't going to do about it. When, for example, the "dictatorship of the proletariat" is not really a viable option. It's more along the lines of a "pseudo-post-apocalyptic breakdown of societal norms."

Che Guevera meet Richard Wilder.

This is all set in the 1970's. And that is the time [Thatcher in England, Reagan near to being elected in America] when the class struggle -- the real one -- more or less ended.

Though this film garnered a 63% fresh rating at RT, many "general audience" reviews were extremely negative. And, to be sure, I can well understand both frames of mind.

So, when it finally does jump the shark -- and boy does it ever! -- you find yourself drawn to the sheer spectacle of the whole thing. You can't believe what you are seeing but how often do you ever get to?

IMDb

In the opening shot of the movie, Laing is using a record player. It is a very special, very rare player known as a Transcriptors Reference Turntable, and the same owned by Alex in A Clockwork Orange (arguably made famous by this feature). This is likely another homage to that film.

While it never directly says so, the film's time period is obviously set in the 1970's. There are no cell phones, iPads, Internet and the like. But there is a lot of cigarette smoking in areas that are forbidden in 2016 such as in doctor's office and around children, and the clothes, vehicles and everyday items were very common in that time period.


at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Rise_(film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/e4pujABeKuA


HIGH-RISE [2015]
Directed by Ben Wheatley

Robert [cooking a dog]: Sometimes he found it difficult not to believe they were living in a future that had already taken place.

Three months earlier...

Robert: I'm afraid I'm not very good at this sort of thing.
Helen: Slotting in, you mean?
Robert: Yes. I was rather expecting to find a certain kind of anonymity here.
Helen: Don't worry, people don't usually care what happens two floors above or below them.
Robert: Good.

...

Helen [to Robert]: We're down in the bottom, in all sorts of shadows. Most families are. Real ones, anyway.

...

Simmons: Mr. Royal wants to see you. Now.
Robert: I'm sorry, who?

...

Robert: You built all this?
Royal: Dreamt. Conceived. I hardly rolled my sleeves up. Course, the project's far from finished. There will be five towers in all, encircling the lake. Something like an open hand. The lake is the palm and we stand on the distal phalanx of the index finger. There. I've put all my energies into this tower. I'm its midwife, so to speak.

...

Charlotte [to Robert]: You know, you look much better without your clothes on. You're lucky. Not many people do.

...

Royal: So, how long were you stuck?
Robert: Not long, in the scheme of things.
Royal: Teething problems. Building is still settling.
Robert: Still, I hear all the floors from the first to the twelfth were out of power for several hours.

...

Royal: But some of the people who live here, haven't you've seen them? The vanguard of the well-to-do. They've fitted themselves so tightly into their slots that they no longer have room to escape themselves.
Robert: Slots designed by you.
Royal: I know. I'd conceived this building to be a crucible for change. I must have missed some vital element.

...

Woman [from the bottom floors on the power outage]: My daughter was interfered with in the dark. She's certain it was someone from the top. He was wearing expensive cologne and stuffed a copy of the Financial Times in her mouth.

...

Laing: You know, Toby, when I was your age, I was always covered in something. Mud, jam, failure... My father never associated himself with anything dirty. Or real.
Toby: My father's up there.
Laing: You mean, in heaven?
Toby: Heaven isn't real, stupid.

...

Helen [to Robert]: You know, everyone's in terrible debt like us, I'm certain. They're just better at hiding it.

...

Charlotte [to Robert]: Talbot's right. It's as if everyone suddenly silently decided to cross some line....Be worse tonight.

...

Ann: There's no food left. Only the dogs. And Mrs. Hillman is refusing to clean unless I pay her what I apparently owe her. Like all poor people, she's obsessed with money.

...

Simmons: You know, we can't have a repeat of last night.
Pangbourne: We have got to show the lower floors that we can throw a better party than them. Healthy competition is the basis of a modern thriving economy. But you're right, we must prevail.

...

Pangbourne: Royal. Just the man. You still hold the key to the building, symbolically, at least. We'd like you to lead a delegation.
Royal: Where to? The United Nations?
Ann: The supermarket.

...

Simmons [when told he's fired by Royal]: I don't work for you...I work for the building.

...

Policeman: Mr. Royal. Everything all right, sir?
Royal: Perfectly.
Policieman: Bit of a mess in there, isn't it?
Roayal: Oh, you know, nothing that can't be "swept under the rug".

...

Steele [watching Helen leave Roberts apartment]: What's this?
Robert: It's all right, Steele.
Steele: Are you sure? It could be worth something. I've heard people are bartering wives for food on other floors.
Robert: I'm not that hungry.

...

Royal: Nevertheless, you're all forgetting one small point. This is my party. You're all my guests. I shall be the one who decides if someone is lobotomized.

...

Panghorne: The real work is here. Once we've dispensed with the likes of Wilder, we play the lower people off against each other. In short, Balkanize the central section. Then begin colonization of the entire building. Then I propose that Royal, here, draw up plans to remodel the lower floors. Oh, yes, a driving range. Cricket nets. Clubhouse.

...

Royal: Pangbourne!
Pangborne: What, Royal? I'm in the middle of something.
Royal: You can't put him over the edge. He owes me a game of squash.

...

Royal: You recall us speaking about my hopes for the building to be a crucible for change?
Robert: Of course.
Royal: Well, all this has made me realize something quite fundamental. It wasn't that I left an element out, it was that I put too many in. And now the building's failure has offered those people the beginnings of a means of escape to a new life.


Like, for example, we take advantage of today.

Margaret Thatcher [on the radio]: The free enterprise system is a necessary but not a sufficient condition. There is only one economic system in the world and that is capitalism. The difference lies in whether the capital is in the hands of the state or whether the greater part of it is in the hands of people outside of state control. Where there is state capitalism, there will never be political freedom.

Got that, Mr. Trump
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:23 am

Not your ordinary family. The parents are "world famous performance artists". Way, way, way off the beaten path. And the kids are given a part to play in the "skits". For better or for worse as it were.

So, is this something that a parent ought to do? Is it moral? They drag the kids into the spotlight and that spotlight is bursting at the seams with controversy. Their art after all is political. They make "political statements" about the world around them. And now the kids are ever linked to that.

As a consequence the kids [as adults] come to blame their parents for any and all travail they now endure.

Only now the parents have disappeared. The sister however is convinced it's just one more of their "stunts".

Films like this always bring back the question of parental responsibility. After all, we know that children are being raised in families that are anchored to any number of extreme agendas. Political or otherwise. Where then should the line be drawn. When does "the state" have the right to intervene once the parents have gone "too far"?

It brings to mind stories like this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -back.html

Some will watch the film and thank their lucky stars they didn't have parents like this. Others [like me] would have given just about anything if their own mom and dad had been the same. But that's what it always revolves around: where you draw the lines.

And the part where "I" becomes "we".

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_Fang_(film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/J-jWH0tIrak


THE FAMILY FANG [2015]
Directed by Jason Bateman

Caleb [to his young children]: Imagine you're dead. Feel yourself go numb. Start with your fingers. Move to your hands...your wrists...right on up to your elbows. Everything is dead. If we can imagine our own deaths but still manage to come back to life, then it proves that we can survive anything. Now, don't be afraid. Own the moment. If you're in control, then the chaos will happen around you and not to you.

You won't believe what comes next...

Baxter [as a child] hands the bank teller a note: "Stay calm and don't do anything stupid. Hand over the lollipops."
Bank teller [smiling and giving him a lollipop]: Have a nice day.
Baxter [tapping a gun on the window]: All of them.

...

Freeman: What's up, sunshine?
Annie: You want me to get naked.
Freeman: Topless.
Annie: A guy answers the door, and I am standing there with my tits out?
Freeman: Gina wants to control the situation.
Annie: With her breasts?
Freeman: Come on. I... I never would have guessed that you were so uptight. You know, it's like, I mean, Annie Fang. You know, wild woman. Indie darling.

...

Freeman: I want to show the world that...that you are still a legitimate actress.
Annie: Uh-huh. Thanks, Freeman.
Freeman: As brave and fearless as you've always...
Annie: Yeah, I'm not doing it.
Freeman: I know what I am asking you to do is difficult.
Annie: Mm-hmm.
Freeman: But great art is always difficult!!!


Out they come.

Howard to Baxter [on the phone]: Do you know what a potato gun is?

...

Nurse: You'll feel better when your people get here.
Baxter: What does that mean? I don't have any people.
Nurse: Well, we went through your wallet. Standard procedure. The doctor called your parents. They're driving up to get you.
Baxter [as she turns to walk away]: No, no. No, no. Miss? Miss?

...

Announcer [voiceover]: Caleb and Camille Fang are most known for creating improvised public events that incorporate their own children into the artwork. The results are often as unsettling as they are arresting...The Fangs simply throw themselves into a space as if they were hand grenades, and wait for the disruption to occur. They seemed to have no expectations other than to willfully cause unrest. This kind of event is so rudimentary, so unencumbered by the traditions that have come before it, that it almost strains the notion of what constitutes art.


You won't believe what comes next...

Critic: I mean, you know, whether or not you like the Fangs' work, you can't deny the artistry, certainly.
Critic: What? Of course I can. That's my job. Look, the Fangs pass off these hollow pranks as if that's enough.
Critic: You can say the same thing about the diggers, or the situationists, or the Dadaists for that matter. But if you care to look a little deeper, you'll find that the Fangs transcend what...
Critic: They're not transcending anything. It's just tricks.

...

Critic: In the...in the pageant piece, they challenged gender stereotypes. In the restaurant piece, they ask us to look at food not as sustenance, but as status or style. In some of the early...
Critic: Oh, come on! Just because... just because you attach a statement doesn't make it art, you know? You can call it art but real art requires an aesthetic intelligence.
Critic: But that ambiguity is what makes it interesting. Is it art or is it a joke? Is it profound or is it a prank? Are they geniuses or charlatans? These are the questions that they want us to ask.
Critic: Well, they're not too hard to answer.
Critic: And the Fangs are challenging the very nature of art itself.
Critic: I don't think they are.
Critic: They embrace everything that's wonderful about art, and they subvert it at the same time. They are deeply serious class clowns who celebrate...
Critics: "Clowns" is right, yeah. I'm sorry. What were you saying?
Critic: I... I think what they're doing is wonderful.
Critic: Well, I guess... I guess I just don't get it.
Critic: Well, that's pretty obvious.

...

Reporter: Look, I think you're a great actress. But the artist you are, don't you think she was already there in child A? The emotion? The joy? The anarchy? It's too bad none of your directors have known how to channel all that the way your parents did.
Annie: When I was 9 years old child A was a role. It was a role I played. It's not who I am.

...

Caleb: Hey, we saw your titty shots.
Annie: Holy shit.
Caleb: They were wonderful.
Annie: Jesus Christ.
Caleb: Hey, it's about time you started playing with the idea of celebrity in the female form as viewed objects.
Annie: That's not what I was doing.
Caleb: Of course it is, whether you know it or not. You could take the girl out of the art, but you cannot take the art out of the girl.
Annie: Well...I'm still an artist, Daddy.
Caleb: That's what I just said.
Annie: Actors are artists.
Caleb: Yes. Didn't I say I like your titty shot?
Camille: We both liked them very much. You have beautiful breasts, sweetheart.
Annie [banging the table]: Okay, that's it! Can we not talk about the titty shots anymore, please?

...

Annie: What is this?
Caleb [driving them to an amusemment park for a new "event"]: It's a shirt, honey. And you need to wear it, or the event won't work. All you have to do is hand out these fake coupons. For chicken sandwiches. And when we're doing that, Baxter will film all the people at the counter demanding free food. Then I rally the angry customers, I get them to storm the counters. It'll be a thing of beauty.


Only it doesn't quite turn out that way...

Annie: If the tabloids get a hold of this, it will be terrible for me.
Baxter: Exactly right.
Caleb: Who cares? You shouldn't be in that business anyway.
Annie: What? Please don't say that.
Caleb: Well, you've been at it for 20 years. What have you got to show for it? A bunch of crap movies and a tampon commercial.
Camille: Caleb, be nice.
Annie: Oh, my God, Dad.
Caleb: Was it not a tampon campaign?
Camille: It was.
Caleb: "Absorb all the good things in life and leave the rest to us."

...

Annie: I think they're losing it.
Baxter: Their artistic sensibility?
Annie: No, their minds. They're...I mean, he's always had an odd idea of what constituted art. But come on, that was almost silly. Did he really think he could lead a coup on a Chicken Queen?

...

Annie: Is this because of the Chicken Queen?
Camille: What a disaster.
Baxter: Great art's always difficult, though, right?
Caleb: What'd you say?
Baxter: I just said what you always tell us. That great art's always difficult.
Caleb: Do me a favor. Don't talk about things you know nothing about.
Baxter: Okay. Deal.

...

Sheriff: We checked the security cameras and interviewed employees at the surrounding locations. But we've been unable to come up with anything conclusive at this point. All signs indicate that your parents are currently missing, and we have to suspect foul play.
Annie: I'm sorry, sheriff. This is...our parents aren't missing. They're artists. It's all a performance.
Sheriff: We know all about their art things. But the fact is, they're missing from a car that they were driving, and it's covered in blood.


The part about crying wolf? Nope.

Baxter: What is that?
Annie: This is a corkboard. I can't conduct an investigation without a corkboard.

...

Caleb [on camera]: People need to be shaken up, snapped out of it, look around, see things in a new way. That's what we try to do in our work, because if you shake something up hard enough, it gets transformed. It's not really about what we do. It's what they do. The people watching.
Camille: Our work has an effect on them, because we wake them up. We bring them back to life. It's a resurrection.
Interviewer: And not a reflection of the human condition?
Caleb: No. You know, it's not. Who wants to see a reflection of the human condition? I suppose that happens when our pieces are shown in galleries. "Oh, look what they did. It's so human and wonderful." But that's not the art. To me, by then, you know, it's over.
Camille: Yeah, we really only do gallery shows to get grants.
Caleb: The art is in the actual moment, as it's happening. Real people really responding. The actual human condition, not some artist's version of it.
Interviewer: But isn't that just life?
Caleb: Yes, exactly. Not a reflection of life, but life itself. Art and life, life and art. We make them interchangeable. And both are enriched because of it.
Interviewer: Do you think other art can do that?
Caleb: No. What, painting? Photography? That's the opposite. That's death. Art happens when things move around, not when you freeze them in a block of ice.


Well, I guess that settles that, right?

Sheriff [in a phone message]: Hey, this is Sheriff Hale. I said I'd call when the blood results came back. I'm afraid that the blood at the scene does match your dad's DNA profile. So it is real, which obviously none of us wanted. But it does mean that we have
a serious situation here. So we'll need to dig a bit deeper into the investigation, as we discussed. I'd appreciate a call back. Thank you.
Annie [to Baxter]: That doesn't mean anything. Caleb's done crazier things than draw his own blood. You know that.


Cue Hobart.

Caleb [on camera]: The first year I was in Hobart's class, we went to see a piece by the artist Chris Burdon, whose work Hobart did not care for.
Hobart [on camera]: Chris Burdon's a hack. A complete and utter fraud.
Caleb: So we're at Burdon's gallery, and he tells us he's going to be shot today. Sure enough, an assistant pulls out a gun and shoots him in the arm. I was shocked. I thought it was thrilling. And I made the mistake of saying so in class. So Hobart turns on me
and he says...
Hobart [on camera]: It's horseshit! Art should never happen in a controlled environment. That's not art. I don't know what it is. Taxidermy. I mean, who the hell cares if you let somebody come and shoot you in a goddamn galley? There's no danger. There's no... no surprise. No, it needs to take place in the world, around people who just don't know that it's art. That's the way it has to be.


You won't believe what comes next...

Hobart: Can I offer you a little advice?
Baxter: Sure.
Hobart: Stop looking for them. It was a bad idea, tangling up family and art. It...But maybe you're free of that now. You need to stop
thinking of this as a sleight and start thinking of it as a gift. Yeah. A gift.

...

Caleb [on camera]: "A" was a baby. And, to be honest, after she was born I was...Well, I was miserable. I thought, "This is the end of our life."
Camille: As artists.
Caleb: Obviously as artists, because... and I've heard this over again, children kill art. They just do. You have them, and the passion you had for creative expression becomes secondary.

...

Baxter: If they're not dead, they want everyone to think that they are, including their own kids. So if we find them, what difference does it make? You can't say anything to them to make them change who they are.
Annie: You don't know that.
Baxter: Yes, I do. And for some reason, you've got some crazy idea in your head that suddenly they're going to stop being who they are. And they're going to stop doing the things that they do, and being the people that they are, Annie. That they're going to suddenly become these normal parents, and it's going to help you fix all of your... stuff. It's just not going to happen. We can't fix them. We can only fix ourselves.

...

Annie: You think they're dead, don't you? You thought it the whole time.
Baxter: I don't know. If they're dead, it's horrible. But if they're not dead...it's kind of worse. In a lot of different ways. So either way, I just think they're gone, you know?


Cue Linus and Lucas. Trust me: you won't see this coming.

Annie: You pay attention, Caleb. You've obviously been working on this for a very long time. And Baxter and I, we want to ruin it for you very badly. We want it to explode in your face. And that is what's going to happen unless you tell me exactly what I want to know.
Bonnie: Didn't I warn you?
Annie: Shut up! What the hell is this?
Caleb [looking at a photograph]: That's our family.
Annie: How long ago was this taken? Look at this.
Caleb: Seven years ago.Bonnie's my wife.
Annie [gasping] Really?!
Caleb: It's complicated.
Bonnie: Those boys love Caleb, so don't you ruin that.
Annie: Stop.
Bpnnie: He's been a wonderful father to them. He goes to baseball games and concerts. And you don't need him. We do. You can think what you want, but he dotes on the three of us.
Annie: Stop talking!
[glass shatters]
Annie [breathing heavily]: You take us to Camille.
Baxter: Yeah, let's go see Camille. You take us to Camille right now.

...

Annie: What's Mom's fake name?
Caleb: Patty Howard.
Annie: Does she have a fake family too?
Caleb: No. See, Bonnie inherited this cabin up north. Mom's been spending ummers there, getting to know people in town so it wouldn't be suspicious when she settled there.
Annie: So this has been in the works for a while.
Caleb: For several years, yes. We had to be thorough. Create new identities we could slip into when Caleb and Camille died. We needed social security numbers, bank accounts, tax history. Otherwise, it wouldn't have worked.
Annie: It didn't work.

...

Annie: You're actually the father of those boys?
Caleb: Every piece has its own complications. And for what it's worth, the boys did help with the cover story.
Annie: Wow. You actually replaced us.
Caleb: No one replaced anyone. You didn't want to work with us.

...

Caleb: Everything we've ever done is for the art.
Camille: No, it wasn't just the art, Caleb. You know that. Everything I do is out of love for you.
Camille [to Annie and Baxter]: And I made him a promise after you were born. He wanted to leave, and I swore to him. that if he figured out a way to be happy and still stay, then I'd always do the same for him.
Annie: Even sacrifice your own children?
Camille: Don't say that.
Annie: Come on. When push came to shove every time, you chose him over us.
Caleb: For God's sake, you talk like I'm a monster. We had a good life. You were happy children. You forget how fun those pieces could be. The thrill of leaping in...
Baxter: Oh, give me a break.
Caleb: No net, not knowing what was going to happen. You're telling me that wasn't fun? The adventures we had. What did other kids do? Go to the Grand Canyon. Disney World? We did something important.
Baxter: I think I would have preferred Disney World, okay?

...

Caleb: I've always loved you kids. Whatever ambivalence I might have felt early on, it turned into love.
Annie: As long as we didn't do shitty movies and compromise your artistic sensibilities, huh?
Caleb: What, I'm not allowed to disapprove your choices? That's like the main thing parents do.

...

Camille: Promise your dad that you won't tell.
Baxter: No, we're pulling the plug. This little piece is over.
Caleb: The hell it is.
Baxter: The hell it isn't. I'm going to take this video and go right to the press.
Caleb: You give that to me.
Baxter: No.
Caleb: You're going to ruin years of work because your feelings got hurt.
Baxter: That's right, Pop.
Camille: Come on, just be reasonable, both of you, and just don't blow this up.
Annie: Well, that's what we Fangs do. We blow things up.
Caleb: Look, we get it. You think we damaged you. Fine. My parents damaged me. Her parents damaged her. You have kids. You're going to damage them. That's what parents do. So what? I'm not a young man anymore. This is the last big thing I'll ever make.
Camille: Come visit once a year, and just please don't tell.
Annie: You want us to pretend you're dead?
[long pause]
Annie: Sure. We can do that.

...

Caleb: You may not understand or appreciate or value what we do, but you cannot deny its relevance, its...its effectiveness. Everything we did woke you up. Made you look at your life anew. That's what we do for people. That's what we've always done. And that's a good thing.
Annie: Yeah. Yeah, I suppose it is. But you know what happens to those people?
Caleb: What?
Annie: Well, they walk away. You never see them again.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 22713
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

PreviousNext

Return to Art, Music, and Entertainment



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron